PDA

View Full Version : Virtual Reality Of The Brain



Ear
2018-Nov-01, 07:30 PM
The photons from the sun hit and enter my eye. My brain creates a way of understanding (the object) as the image I see. If some technology was able to place an image of a rocket in my head (only in my head not anyone viewing me). I could walk to the image of the rocket and take off. what would everyone viewing see?

Spacedude
2018-Nov-01, 09:18 PM
If I were present I'm guessing that I would see you walking over to a spot and proceeding to go through the motions of strapping yourself into an invisible rocket looking pleased with yourself, well, at least I believe that's what my photons were telling me ;-)?

Ear
2018-Nov-01, 09:40 PM
people would view the person or astronaut floating in mid air?

DaveC426913
2018-Nov-02, 12:26 AM
If some technology was able to place an image of a rocket in my head (only in my head not anyone viewing me). I could walk to the image of the rocket and take off. what would everyone viewing see?
No. You could not "walk to the image". It is not at a distance; it is in your head. The image would remain at the same distance and size no matter how much you tried to walk toward it. It is, after all, an image, of a rocket, seen at a distance.

Now, you could enhance the illusion with some sophisticated equipment, making the image change size in response to your motion. The image would then appear to get larger to you as you moved. In theory, the enhanced dynamic image might enlarge so much that you think you're standing within arm's reach of the hatch.

And then you'd reach out for the handle - and there would be nothing there. Your hand would appear to pass right through the handle, but you would feel nothing.

Jens
2018-Nov-02, 02:07 AM
people would view the person or astronaut floating in mid air?

You would not be able to float in mid air if it is just an image in your mind. It's actually possible to do what you are trying to do. Virtual reality for example. So if you war virtual reality glasses, you can see something that isn't really there. And you can reach out and try to touch it, but you can't because it's only in the glasses.

Noclevername
2018-Nov-02, 03:52 AM
people would view the person or astronaut floating in mid air?

No. The image would only be an illusion. A purely mental construct. You could not stand on it any more than you could stand on a rainbow.

Ear
2018-Nov-02, 09:07 AM
The brain must understand the mass of an object?

antoniseb
2018-Nov-02, 09:14 AM
The above answers to your question are good. I add this for some further illustration. There is an advertisement on TV for an insurance company that shows a teenager's VR POV for part of the commercial, and then shows his father and an insurance spokesperson observing him in the kitchen. The teenager is just in the kitchen wearing a headset. Good VR can supply an alternative to what you see around you, but it doesn't change where your flesh really is.

Noclevername
2018-Nov-02, 10:22 AM
The brain must understand the mass of an object?

Understanding is not experiencing. Mass cannot be simulated, it either is there or it isn't.

Roger E. Moore
2018-Nov-02, 12:41 PM
The photons from the sun hit and enter my eye. My brain creates a way of understanding (the object) as the image I see. If some technology was able to place an image of a rocket in my head (only in my head not anyone viewing me). I could walk to the image of the rocket and take off. what would everyone viewing see?

Here is my take, for what it is worth. First of all, this can probably be done, or very soon will be done. See the following references.

============

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_identification

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/scientists-transmit-thoughts-brain/story?id=25319813
Scientists Transmit Thoughts from one Brain to Another
By COLUMN BY LEE DYE, Sep 7, 2014, 6:27 AM ET

https://www.insidescience.org/video/telepathy-real
Telepathy Is Real: How do we transmit information from one person to another?
Friday, March 30, 2018 - 09:00; Alistair Jennings, Contributor
"Now, I don’t want to alarm anyone, but telepathy, the act of transferring thoughts into someone else’s head is now real. As in, published-in-academic-papers real. People have now telepathically communicated with each other, monkeys have solved problems as a connected hive mind, and humans have even been given telepathic control of a rat."

===============

You will have a device strapped over your head enabling the transmission of the information to you. Because your actual senses are not involved, your eyes and ears might be covered to prevent interference from real-world auditory and visual stimuli. From here, there are two ways it can go.

One is like a Total Recall set-up, in which you are seated or lying down. People in another room will oversee what's going on. They might have monitors that show a generalized idea of what is happening in your VR world, though only you will see the full range of details, part of which might be based on your own experience. The rocket might look like an old V-2 of silver color, but your mind might add other details. Not sure about this.

Why would you be lying down or sitting? If you are expected to move around a lot during a VR experience, you are at risk of falling from tripping or disorientation, as often happens in real life VR tries. (I've seen it.) The experience might be more like a REM-sleep dream. This is actually the safest way to do this if your other senses are dampened to allow the VR to override them. Tactile sensory information should be felt--if you touch something, you will feel it. If you think you are walking, you will feel the pavement on the soles of your feet.

The second way is obviously for you to be up and walking around, which could prove dangerous should you try to sit in a VR chair that does not exist in real life. This strikes me as a bad way to go. We will see.

A very good question.

Roger E. Moore
2018-Nov-02, 12:49 PM
Understanding is not experiencing. Mass cannot be simulated, it either is there or it isn't.

Mass cannot be simulated, but tactile input probably can, by sending the information directly into the brain like other sensory or thought input. The VR object could be made to feel hard, soft, squishy, gooey, liquid, etc., without necessarily putting a cover over the client's hands to actually stimulate them. Doing the latter might cause the person to "wake up".

One of my nieces is very much into the VR thing. Between that and reading about the topic, the above seems reasonable.

Roger E. Moore
2018-Nov-02, 03:35 PM
More information for those interested. The first article goes on in detail about past tests and how they were done.


https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-pentagons-wild-plan-for-mind-controlled-drones

The Pentagon’s Wild Plan for Mind-Controlled Drones
The U.S. military is testing a brain implant that might one day let users control drones with their minds—and for the drones to send signals back.

David Axe, 09.19.18 4:52 AM ET

The U.S. military has tested, multiple times, a brain implant that allows a human operator to simultaneously control, with their thoughts, up to three flying drones. Well, in theory. The tests, overseen by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), were computer simulations. And while they might eventually lead to actual mind control for flying robots, the technology is still in its infancy.

The mind-controlled drone trials took place in Pittsburgh between June 2016 and January 2017, according to DARPA. “Using a bidirectional neural interface, a volunteer named Nathan Copeland was able to simultaneously steer a simulated lead aircraft and maintain formation of two, simulated unmanned support aircraft in a flight simulator,” Tim Kilbride, a DARPA spokesperson, told The Daily Beast.

Test-subject Copeland, who is partially paralyzed, never actually steered a real drone using only his thoughts. Instead, he channeled his thoughts through a medical implant embedded in his skull, which used electroencephalogram—or EEG, the same method doctors use to diagnose epilepsy—to interface with a computer simulation of a drone navigating an obstacle course in the company of two robotic wingmen.

“Nathan’s task was to exercise vertical and lateral control to fly the lead aircraft through a series of hoops positioned in the center of the screen, while also maintaining/correcting the lateral course of the two support aircraft through their own hoops positioned in shifting locations at the top of the screen,” Kilbride said via email.

The technology is promising, and could one day lead to a direct interface between human operators and robots. That’s right—mind control for drones. But there are limits. Vaguely controlling one drone is possible today. Directly controlling several drones, and with greater fidelity and full two-way communication, is beyond the reach of current tech.

Thought-controlled drones have been in development for years. In February 2015, DARPA announced that a volunteer named Jan Scheuermann, a quadriplegic, had flown a simulated F-35 stealth fighter using only her thoughts.

======================

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2180054-a-mind-reading-headset-lets-people-fly-drones-using-their-thoughts/

A mind-reading headset lets people fly drones using their thoughts

By Chelsea Whyte, Daily news 19 September 2018

I think, therefore I fly. Headsets that read brain waves are being used to fly drones, letting us control machines with just our thoughts. A team from the Indian Institute of Science in Bangalore trained 14 people to control a multirotor drone using commercially available EEG headsets, devices that use small electrodes to test the electrical activity in your brain.

Noclevername
2018-Nov-02, 03:46 PM
Mass cannot be simulated, but tactile input probably can, by sending the information directly into the brain like other sensory or thought input. The VR object could be made to feel hard, soft, squishy, gooey, liquid, etc., without necessarily putting a cover over the client's hands to actually stimulate them. Doing the latter might cause the person to "wake up".

One of my nieces is very much into the VR thing. Between that and reading about the topic, the above seems reasonable.

Sure, but not what posts # 3, 6, and 9 were about.

Strange
2018-Nov-02, 03:59 PM
Mass cannot be simulated, but tactile input probably can, by sending the information directly into the brain like other sensory or thought input. The VR object could be made to feel hard, soft, squishy, gooey, liquid, etc., without necessarily putting a cover over the client's hands to actually stimulate them. Doing the latter might cause the person to "wake up".

I read about a simulated cow's uterus that was developed for training vets (you know, when they have to put their arm in to check the health of the calf, or whatever it is they do).

It used a surface covered with tiny vibrating nodes that could make your hand "think" it was experiencing different types of surface - hard or soft, rough or smooth, etc.

PetersCreek
2018-Nov-02, 04:43 PM
Since the Space/Astronomy Questions and Answers forum is for questions about space, astronomy, and related topics...and this thread isn't one of those topics...I've moved this discussion to the Off-Topic Babbling forum

Carry on.

SkepticJ
2018-Nov-03, 01:16 AM
The feeling of mass can be simulated, by using mechanical resistance. Picture something like a robotic exoskeleton, but instead of amplifying your strength it fights against you. Lifting a feather (or a virtual object) could feel like hefting a bag of sand.

Noclevername
2018-Nov-03, 01:38 AM
Yes, conditions and objects can be simulated by technology. I didn't get the impression the OP was asking about virtual reality tech, though.

DaveC426913
2018-Nov-03, 04:20 AM
The brain must understand the mass of an object?

The fingers must come into contact with an object. Otherwise, as pointed out, you will see your hand pass right through the handle.

publiusr
2018-Nov-05, 08:47 PM
Haptic feedbacks are being worked on. There is also some work on the connectome: https://neurodata.io/

DaveC426913
2018-Nov-06, 12:33 AM
Right. So, we can simulate all sorts of illusions for your various senses.

But they're illusions. The OP is going to walk up to the illusory rocket, grab the illusory hatch handle, lift his leg up to step in - and fall flat on his face. ;)

Jens
2018-Nov-06, 01:00 AM
The brain must understand the mass of an object?

It's really difficult to understand what you are thinking of from such a short question. Could you explain a bit more about what you are imagining? To be honest, I can't understand why somebody could think that you could launch yourself into space on a rocket that is created like a movie that you can see but that doesn't really exist. So I guess there must be something about your question that we are not understanding. Could you explain a bit more?

publiusr
2018-Nov-09, 05:57 PM
But they're illusions. The OP is going to walk up to the illusory rocket, grab the illusory hatch handle, lift his leg up to step in - and fall flat on his face. ;)

Maybe not if it is a waldo walking up to a real lander--operated by telepresence--and I mean more than just a tablet on wheels

We've all seen the Matrix, and folks jacking in with an attachment to the base of the neck/spine. But it may not need to be so invasive.

Could Euphoria software be joined with the cortical homunculus? The result may be a way to give proprioception to humanoid robots....