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Candy
2005-Apr-01, 09:16 PM
Boeing may have to modify 1,600 jets (http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/01/news/fortune500/boeing.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes)

U.S. regulators proposed Friday that airlines replace or modify insulation on 1,600 Boeing Co. planes worldwide because the material does not meet fire-proofing standards.
This oneís for Nicolas. Iíll have to check to see if this affects my company. :o

Waarthog
2005-Apr-01, 09:56 PM
It will be interesting to see if this actually goes out as an Airworthiness Directive (compliance hase the force of law), or if it will be dropped down to a Service Bulliten (which can be ignored) under pressure from the airline lobby. This happened before in the case of the faulty cargo doors on the DC-10.

tmosher
2005-Apr-01, 10:07 PM
If that does make it as an AD, the compliance period would probably be extended to the next major overhaul (i.e., D-Check).

Candy, it would probably affect United - Boeing 727, 737, 747, 757, and 767 aircraft are covered by the proposal provided they were built between 1981 and 1988 (that's when the insulating blankets were made). Same for American, Delta, Southwest, etc. The only major US airline it won't affect is JetBlue (all Airbus fleet).

FAA Proposes Removal or Modification of Aircraft Insulation Blankets (http://www.faa.gov/apa/pr/pr.cfm?id=1935)

The NPRM (Notice of Proposed Rulemaking) won't be available till Monday.

frogesque
2005-Apr-01, 10:13 PM
Airbus! (http://www.airbus.com/prehome.asp)

tofu
2005-Apr-01, 10:29 PM
Thanks for the link. No one here has ever heard of airbus.

Jpax2003
2005-Apr-02, 02:17 AM
Thanks for the link. No one here has ever heard of airbus.What about McDonnell Douglas? They weren't part of Boeing then.

Candy
2005-Apr-02, 03:18 AM
Candy, it would probably affect United - Boeing 727, 737, 747, 757, and 767 aircraft are covered by the proposal provided they were built between 1981 and 1988 (that's when the insulating blankets were made). Same for American, Delta, Southwest, etc. The only major US airline it won't affect is JetBlue (all Airbus fleet).
Last I remember, the average age of our aircraft was 10 years. I'll double check. Just when things look as if they are getting better... :(

Nicolas
2005-Apr-02, 11:46 AM
$330M...

Have the insulation regulations changed since 1981-88, or didn't they comply to the rules from the start?

I hope they can wait until the next D-check, as the cabin is stripped in a D-check anyway. I think D-check intervals on these types are somewhere between 5-7 years.

Glom
2005-Apr-02, 12:30 PM
I would assume that they would have complied with the regulation to begin with or the aircraft wouldn't have received type certification.

frogesque
2005-Apr-02, 03:08 PM
From the O/P link:


Both the Federal Aviation Administration and Boeing (up $0.46 to $58.92, Research) said the AN-26 fire-retardant coating on the fiberglass insulation blankets, manufactured and installed between 1981 and 1988, do not meet updated fire-proofing standards, .

and


Some of the insulation, in this case, is placed behind wires and hard-to-access control panels throughout the plane. The FAA recommends work be completed during scheduled maintenance overhauls.


my bold added

tmosher
2005-Apr-02, 05:24 PM
Candy, it would probably affect United - Boeing 727, 737, 747, 757, and 767 aircraft are covered by the proposal provided they were built between 1981 and 1988 (that's when the insulating blankets were made). Same for American, Delta, Southwest, etc. The only major US airline it won't affect is JetBlue (all Airbus fleet).
Last I remember, the average age of our aircraft was 10 years. I'll double check. Just when things look as if they are getting better... :(

Looks like the only United Airlines aircraft that are going to be affected are the 767-222's and and more than half of the 737-322's. The 757's don't seem to be affected as the oldest are early 1990's vintage.

I did a little digging through the FAA registry to see the build dates of United's aircraft.

Candy
2005-Apr-02, 06:12 PM
Candy, it would probably affect United - Boeing 727, 737, 747, 757, and 767 aircraft are covered by the proposal provided they were built between 1981 and 1988 (that's when the insulating blankets were made). Same for American, Delta, Southwest, etc. The only major US airline it won't affect is JetBlue (all Airbus fleet).
Last I remember, the average age of our aircraft was 10 years. I'll double check. Just when things look as if they are getting better... :(

Looks like the only United Airlines aircraft that are going to be affected are the 767-222's and and more than half of the 737-322's. The 757's don't seem to be affected as the oldest are early 1990's vintage.

I did a little digging through the FAA registry to see the build dates of United's aircraft.
I couldn't get any updates last night at work. Looks like this is very fresh, so there is no direction. I just read frogesque's post, these would be done during scheduled maintenance overhauls. I like this. I was thinking there would be a grounding of some sort. Don't ask me why? :-?

tmosher
2005-Apr-02, 06:21 PM
Candy, it would probably affect United - Boeing 727, 737, 747, 757, and 767 aircraft are covered by the proposal provided they were built between 1981 and 1988 (that's when the insulating blankets were made). Same for American, Delta, Southwest, etc. The only major US airline it won't affect is JetBlue (all Airbus fleet).
Last I remember, the average age of our aircraft was 10 years. I'll double check. Just when things look as if they are getting better... :(

Looks like the only United Airlines aircraft that are going to be affected are the 767-222's and and more than half of the 737-322's. The 757's don't seem to be affected as the oldest are early 1990's vintage.

I did a little digging through the FAA registry to see the build dates of United's aircraft.
I couldn't get any updates last night at work. Looks like this is very fresh, so there is no direction. I just read frogesque's post, these would be done during scheduled maintenance overhauls. I like this. I was thinking there would be a grounding of some sort. Don't ask me why? :-?

It's got a compliance period just like almost every other Airworthiness Directive. I'll take a look at the NPRM when it's posted on monday. Usually, within the AD there's a listing of the aircraft serial numbers that the AD is applicable to.

This AD won't go into effect for at least sixty days as there is a comment period for the notice of proposed rule making (NPRM) that will allow the airlines and Boeing to put their two cents in.

BTW, that $300 million estimate is the FAA's - they use a bizarre set of conditions to determine the compliance cost of an AD.

Nicolas
2005-Apr-03, 10:47 AM
From the O/P link:


Both the Federal Aviation Administration and Boeing (up $0.46 to $58.92, Research) said the AN-26 fire-retardant coating on the fiberglass insulation blankets, manufactured and installed between 1981 and 1988, do not meet updated fire-proofing standards, .

and


Some of the insulation, in this case, is placed behind wires and hard-to-access control panels throughout the plane. The FAA recommends work be completed during scheduled maintenance overhauls.


my bold added

Thanks for the info. I didn't have time to do more than a speed reading (exams). Thanks for keeping me up to date! =D>

Any idea whether the "scheduled maintenance overhauls" mean only D-checks, or also lower level checks?

tmosher
2005-Apr-05, 12:59 AM
A little more about the AN-26 blanket "problem".

It would appear that the company that supplied the insulating blankets to Boeing between 1981 and 1988 was Boeing's preferred supplier. This, of course, means that not all of the mentioned aircraft have AN-26 blankets. The only problem is that the operator has to reveal every blanket in the aircraft to make sure wheter or not there are AN-26 blankets. Either way, it is going to require considerable downtime to determine the type of blanket and put in blankets.

The AD probably won't go into effect until a while after the sixty day comment period (which started today).

According to the AD NPRM, a typical 737 affected by the AD will require around $314,000 USD worth of labor and materials while a 767-200/-300 will run around $686,000 in labor and materials.

The NPRM is available at FAA-2005-20836 (http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgADNPRM.nsf/0/B722CBAA0EEDFBB286256FD9004810C9?OpenDocument)

I wouldn't be surprised if this makes some airlines operate their older 737's and 767's right up to the compliance date then park them in the desert.

Trebuchet
2005-Apr-05, 11:15 PM
I think the blankets may have been acceptable at the time of delivery but the fireworthiness has been found to degrade over time. It's a very sensitive subject since the Sissair MD-11 crash.