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Fram
2005-Apr-04, 01:48 PM
After many countries around Belgium have done a poll / contest for the Greatest compatriot, we of course had to copy it (certainly because it all drew lots of viewers in those countries). The other countries all had politicians as winners (Churchill, Adenauer, De Gaulle (I think?) and Willem I of Orange), but chances are that we will break that young tradition.
Controversy has already started about the way the longlist of 100 Belgians has been chosen (by a panel, not by the public) and about what are the rules to consider someone a) Great and b) Belgian...
To see what an international audience of knowledgeable people would think, I was going to do a big poll with 9 potential winners of different categories, and a tenth 'other' possibility. As I'm apparently only allowed to have a poll with 5 possibilities instead of 10, I'll only have four Belgians to chose from, and the 'others' will be a lot bigger...
So cast your votes, give your comments, and please be certain to say whom you would choose if you vote 'other'.

Heid the Ba'
2005-Apr-04, 03:49 PM
Eddy Merckx. But only because Frank Vandenbrouke isn't there. :D

Candy
2005-Apr-04, 04:35 PM
Paul Rubens, aka Peewee Herman :lol:

[Sorry, I have no idea of who these people are!] :oops:

kucharek
2005-Apr-04, 04:41 PM
You didn't mention Jean-Claude Van Damme :P

I'm undecided who I should nominate as The Greatest Belgian.
Either the inventor of the freedom fry or the guy who created the first chocolate candy.

Harald

Nicolas
2005-Apr-04, 04:42 PM
Paul Rubens, aka Peewee Herman :lol:

[Sorry, I have no idea of who these people are!] :oops:

I do, but just as in the "Greatest person of the Netherlands" and "greatest person of Delft" elections I can't make a choice. I can't compare what a painter, cartoonist, scientist, cyclist etc did.

kucharek
2005-Apr-04, 04:43 PM
PS: More Belgians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Belgians)

Candy
2005-Apr-04, 04:47 PM
Ohhhhh, change my vote to Dr. Evil.

Parrothead
2005-Apr-04, 04:51 PM
Jean Neuhaus - Creator of Pralines :P

jumbo
2005-Apr-04, 10:36 PM
Personally i vote for whichever monk was the first to brew Westmalle! After trying a fair few of the local beers on a recent trip to Belgium i left with a love for them and the Westmalle dubbel in particular.

Nicolas
2005-Apr-04, 10:39 PM
*uhm* Nicolas is a Belgian *uhm* 8) :lol:

Maybe I would pick Lemaître, as he's responsible for quite a few threads on this board!

Maksutov
2005-Apr-04, 10:53 PM
I have a couple of people in mind, but right now I'm waffling.

fossilnut2
2005-Apr-05, 01:11 AM
Hercule Poirot !!!!

Actually Belgiums in general. I went on a tour of battlefieds where Canadians had fought in the two World wars. The Belgium people were very hospitable.

Belgium and Holland are a lot like Canada in that we concentrate more on quality of life than 'being number one'. Belgium is to France what Holland is to Germany what Canada is to the USA.... while 'they' run around the world chest beating we just sit back and try and make our own societies and the rest of the world a little bit better.

(if Beer was a person, I'd vote for Belgium beer)

space cadet
2005-Apr-05, 04:25 AM
what about James Ensor, the famous painter?


He's the only Belgian I've heard of, and that was just because of the TMBG song. I can't vote for anyone else, so I'll vote for him. :P

Celestial Mechanic
2005-Apr-05, 05:06 AM
I would vote for Cesar Franck, the composer, even though he lived most of his life in France and did acquire French citizenship.

And Hercule Poirot for greatest fictional Belgian.

Nicolas
2005-Apr-05, 08:17 AM
what about James Ensor, the famous painter?


He's the only Belgian I've heard of, and that was just because of the TMBG song. I can't vote for anyone else, so I'll vote for him. :P

You never heard of cyclist Eddy Merckx?
And painters Rubens and Breughel?
And Big-Bang man Lemaître?
Dr Evil?

Maybe I would vote for underdog Stefan Everts. Just because he's hardly known, while he's achieved the same as Michael Schumacher -but in motocross.

His records:

- Most GP victories => 79
- Most World Titles => 8

- First rider to win 3 GP's in one day ( Ernéé '03) , same for two GP's !!
- 2nd Mr. 875cc, after Eric Geboers

- Mr. Sukahoya , Stefan is the only one to become a World Champion on all four japanese brands. (Suzuki, Kawasaki, Honda, Yamaha)

- Winner of his first enduro race : ISDE 6-days in Brazil

=D> =D>

(and he's still active and world class)

Fram
2005-Apr-05, 08:26 AM
Ah, fictional characters don't count, nor do unknown characters (the inventor of the fries or so...).
Georges Lemaître was on my first draft of 9 persons for the poll, as were Father Damiaan, Gerard Mercator, Adolphe Sax, and Andreas Vesalius. I wanted to have 9 different aspects, to make the choice tougher.
It is indeed a bit of a ridiculous concept, there's no real way to compare a painter with a sportsman or a politician with an explorer, but if it brings some hardly known Belgians in the picture (in Belgium), it may have achieved something!
My vote is for Peyo, the inventor of the Smurfs, but he isn't even on the longlist of 100 names :cry:

mid
2005-Apr-05, 09:02 AM
I'm tempted to vote Tom Barman, because I was a big dEUS fan. Jaques Brel would have to be a good runner up, though, as would the mighty René Magritte.

OK, if I'm being sensible then Magritte wins.

Fram
2005-Apr-05, 09:38 AM
I'm tempted to vote Tom Barman, because I was a big dEUS fan. Jaques Brel would have to be a good runner up, though, as would the mighty René Magritte.

OK, if I'm being sensible then Magritte wins.

All three are in the official longlist! I would pick Magritte from those three as well.
The new dEUS album will normally appear in september, by the way...

mid
2005-Apr-05, 12:04 PM
Barman made the official list? Wow, I didn't expect that; I though I was the only one who loved dEUS. I first saw them at one of the last gigs performed in Oxford's legendary Jericho Tavern before they turned the place into a trendy microbrewery and unleashed the wrath of every musician in the area.

fossilnut2
2005-Apr-05, 04:20 PM
Who is Eddy Merckx?

I've heard of Eddy Haskel ( 'Hi Mrs Cleaver, where's Wally and the Beaver).

I've heard of Eddy Holmes ( my best friend in grade 6)

How does one pronounce Merckx (rckx)?...the rck could be 'rock' and the x' could represent an asterix or a star. So is he a rock star in Belgium?

Nicolas
2005-Apr-05, 04:28 PM
Eddy Merckx won (amongst others) the Tour de France 5 times, and is considered by many as the best cyclist of all times.

His name is pronounced "merx" with sharp e.

Candy
2005-Apr-05, 04:30 PM
Who is Eddy Merckx?
Eddie or Eddy (http://www.esatclear.ie/~mrbrennan/eddie.htm) 8-[

Eddy Merckx won five times in the grueling “Tour de France”, cycling’s hardest test.
I bet he had some nice legs. :P

Sam5
2005-Apr-05, 04:31 PM
Abbé Georges Lemaitre, inventor of the modern Big Bang theory in 1927. Published in the Annales de la Société Scientifique de Bruxelles, Tome XLVII, série A,1927. English translation of paper here:

http://adsbit.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?1931MNRAS..91..483L

Nicolas
2005-Apr-05, 04:33 PM
Eddy.

"Eddie" is the Belgian version of Eddy, but Eddy Merckx had his name officially written as "Eddy". His bikes (he owns a bike factory) have "Eddy Merckx" written on them too.

He has cyclist's legs (duh). I don't know whether they're that beautiful :).

10stone5
2005-Apr-05, 04:36 PM
My ex-girlfriend.

She's from Brussels.

Argos
2005-Apr-05, 04:48 PM
Jacky Ickx? 8-[

Nicolas
2005-Apr-05, 05:39 PM
Also a good entry. His daughter races too.

What about John Massis? 8-[

kylenano
2005-Apr-05, 06:29 PM
Josquin Des Prez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josquin_Des_Prez) (c. 1450 – 1521) (According to kucharek's list he counts).

Because his music is still being performed 500 years after he wrote it.

Fram
2005-Apr-05, 07:06 PM
Josquin Des Prez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josquin_Des_Prez) (c. 1450 – 1521) (According to kucharek's list he counts).

Because his music is still being performed 500 years after he wrote it.

Yep, great choice. For some reason in the longlist, Orlandus Lassus is included, but Des Prez and Willaert not. Perhaps Lassus is slightly more well known?

Nicolas, do you know how high Fokker ended in the Dutch competition?

Nicolas
2005-Apr-05, 07:07 PM
Josquin Des Prez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josquin_Des_Prez) (c. 1450 – 1521) (According to kucharek's list he counts).

Because his music is still being performed 500 years after he wrote it.

Yep, great choice. For some reason in the longlist, Orlandus Lassus is included, but Des Prez and Willaert not. Perhaps Lassus is slightly more well known?

Nicolas, do you know how high Fokker ended in the Dutch competition?

About 14 km. :)

No I've got no idea. I'd have to look it up. Maybe he's got WWII working against him.

fossilnut2
2005-Apr-05, 07:59 PM
A side note:

Archbisop Daneels, is a Belgium cardinal who is one of the handful of names to become the next Pope (according to this week's Time Magazine).

Maybe beer will be used instead of wine in the Communion.

JohnW
2005-Apr-05, 09:14 PM
It's rare for Eddy Mercx to place second in anything, but the greatest Belgian has to be Django.

Grendl
2005-Apr-05, 09:21 PM
This was so easy for me, especially as I don't know most of the people:
René Magritte - surrealist

We have an excellent collection of Magritte works here at the Menil Art Gallery (which is free). When I first came to Houston, I went to exhibit there during my first week upon arrival in Feb 1993; they had even more paintings on loan than their own collection. I have the exhibit poster on my wall. 'Fell in love with Magritte, oh, about 5th grade when my mom had The Empire of Light, II on her easel: it made sense to me, oddly enough.

I also vote for the guy or gal who has the best chocolate factory. :lol:

Nicolas
2005-Apr-05, 09:26 PM
It's rare for Eddy Mercx to place second in anything, but the greatest Belgian has to be Django.

I'm not really familiar with his work (at least not by name).

What about Adolphe Sax, inventor of the saxophone?

(BTW Fokker was n°33 in "Grootste Nederlander")

Fram
2005-Apr-06, 08:16 AM
It's rare for Eddy Mercx to place second in anything, but the greatest Belgian has to be Django.

I'm not really familiar with his work (at least not by name).

What about Adolphe Sax, inventor of the saxophone?

(BTW Fokker was n°33 in "Grootste Nederlander")

Django Reinhardt, Jazz player (guitarist), considered one of the greatest. We also have Toots Thielemans, jazz harmonica player.

Adolphe Sax is included in the longlist, but Baekelandt (inventor of Baekeliet) and Gramme (inventor of the dynamo) are sadly forgotten. A shame, really...

mopc
2005-Apr-07, 04:28 AM
What about that king Leopold who "owned" Congo???

Fram
2005-Apr-07, 07:40 AM
What about that king Leopold who "owned" Congo???

He isn't included in the longlist, as they only wanted Belgians who had given a positive contribution. Now some people with a lack of historical knowledge or very little care for cruelty against other people as long as our country gets richer are trying to get him included after all. I hope they fail, as we would make a fool of ourselves and only strengthen the image of Belgium (Flanders) as a racist region or country...

captain swoop
2005-Apr-07, 08:29 AM
Hercule Poirot?

Fram
2005-Apr-07, 09:11 AM
Hercule Poirot?

He's a fictional character, and those are not allowed (the same goes for Tintin). The debate is still open if unknown persons are allowed or not. There are calls for either the unknown soldier or the inventor of the fries...

Nicolas
2005-Apr-07, 09:27 AM
Luc Donckerwolke

Designer of the Lamborghini Murcielago and Gallardo

http://carpictures.duble.com/Lamborghini/Murcielago/1.jpg
Murcielago

http://www.typos.com.cy/articles/images/cars/lamborghini-gallardo.jpg
Gallardo

(I don't really like the Gallardo that much, but the Mucrielago DROOL :))

Tony Gillet

Only car manufacturer in Belgium. Builds the fastest accelerating "normal street car" (which includes closed roof I think) in the world:
the Gillet Vertigo

http://www.6minutes.net/images/auto/au146-3.jpg

Grendl
2005-Apr-07, 10:16 AM
I went looking in my old Peter Freuchen's, "Book of the Seven Seas," because I was sure there was a Belgian mentioned in there. He's Swiss, but when he helped calculate depths for the bathysphere, (even though he was known for altitudes) he was in Belgium. The French Navy used his calculations for the bathysphere and made a record dive in the Atlantic ocean--a little over 13,000 feet in 1954. As far as explorers go, I can't think of one notable Belgian.


Piccard, Auguste (1884-1962)

Swiss scientist. In 1931-32, he and his twin brother, Jean Félix (1884-1963), made ascents to 17,000 m/55,000 ft in a balloon of his own design, resulting in useful discoveries concerning stratospheric phenomena such as cosmic radiation. He also built and used, with his son Jacques Ernest (1922- ), bathyscaphs for research under the sea.
Auguste Piccard was born and educated in Basel, and joined the balloon section of the Swiss army 1915. From 1922 he was professor of physics at Brussels, Belgium.
Jacques Piccard twice, in 1953 and 1960, set a world record with the depth he reached in a bathyscaph. The second time he descended to 10,917 m/35,820 ft in the Mariana Trench near Guam in the Pacific Ocean.

It should be noted that there is a British parlour game which challenges the participants to come up with the names of "12 famous Belgians", implicitly asserting that Belgian nationals are far less likely to be notable in the United Kingdom than those of other countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Belgians#Others_2


There's a bit of truth to this--it is hard coming up with famous Belgians. :( Perhaps, we need to get to know your country better. :lol:


Edit you're to your typo

Nicolas
2005-Apr-07, 10:26 AM
As far as explorers go, I can't think of one notable Belgian.



Would Belgium ever been interested in Antarctica without Adrien de Gerlache? Worldwide he is considered as a pioneer. De Gerlache was the person who organized the first scientific expedition to Antarctica.



There's a bit of truth to this--it is hard coming up with famous Belgians. :( Perhaps, we need to get to know you're country better. :lol:

You could start with something else :D :wink: (just kidding)

Nicolas
2005-Apr-07, 10:54 AM
What about that king Leopold who "owned" Congo???

I wouldn't call him "Greatest Belgian"... :roll: [-(

BTW he "owned" Congo personally, not in name of Belgium.

Grendl
2005-Apr-07, 11:21 AM
Grendl:As far as explorers go, I can't think of one notable Belgian.

Nicolas: Would Belgium ever been interested in Antarctica without Adrien de Gerlache? Worldwide he is considered as a pioneer. De Gerlache was the person who organized the first scientific expedition to Antarctica.

:o I just looked in my Atlas of Expeditions, Explorers and Peter Freuchen's book: Amundsen, Scott, Shackleton...but no Gerlache mentioned in any of those three sources. The Norway, Finland, Britain and Ireland produced some great Antartcia explorers...why isn't this guy mentioned?



There's a bit of truth to this--it is hard coming up with famous Belgians. :( Perhaps, we need to get to know you're country better. :lol:

You could start with something else :D :wink: (just kidding)
Have I not had enough coffee yet? I was slow with this one.

I was actually serious about the chocolate. If Belgium is so known for its chocolate, who is a famous chocolatier? Now that's a good way to entice people to your country! Chocolate has those dopamine effects on people--everyone would just be so happy there munching away on chocolate.

Nicolas
2005-Apr-07, 11:27 AM
Grendl:As far as explorers go, I can't think of one notable Belgian.

Nicolas: Would Belgium ever been interested in Antarctica without Adrien de Gerlache? Worldwide he is considered as a pioneer. De Gerlache was the person who organized the first scientific expedition to Antarctica.

:o I just looked in my Atlas of Expeditions, Explorers and Peter Freuchen's book: Amundsen, Scott, Shackleton...but no Gerlache mentioned in any of those three sources. The Norway, Finland, Britain and Ireland produced some great Antartcia explorers...why isn't this guy mentioned?


Chauvinism? :) No seriously, I don't know why he wouldn't be mentioned. Maybe be cause he didn't discover really big things, or wasn't first on the pole or things like that?

About chocolatiers: I can't come up with specific names now.

Grendl
2005-Apr-07, 11:34 AM
Amundsen's ship was named Fram. In Old English freom was used as kinsmen as in freomaegum for noble kinsmen. How is fram used?

Fram
2005-Apr-07, 11:38 AM
Adrien De Gerlache was indeed our greatest explorer. His grandson Gaston was one of the leading figures in the renewed Antarctic exploration in the Geophysical year 1956-1957.

There are also figures like Ferdinand Verbiest (http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/jmac/sj/scientists/verbiest.htm), a Jesuit missionary in China and a homo universalis with great importance for the astronomy (and other things) in China and in Europe. He also built a model steam carriage (supposedly working) in 1678.
Tow of the 35 Jesuit moon craters are also named after Belgians, Theodore Moretus and Andre Tacquet.

But the explorer who shuld have been the best known but is now all but forgotten is Guillaume de Rubrouck (http://www.literatureandplace.org.uk/database/en/entries/Rubrouck%20Guillaume%20de/Rubrouck/118) (or any of the other spellings you may find on the web) or Willem van Ruubroeck, a contemporary of Marco Polo and very comparable to him. He travelled in Mogolia in 1253, when that region was hardly known to the Europeans, and he has published his writings abvout his travels, but they sank into oblivion while Marco Polo got famous.
There seems not only to be some dispute about his name, but also about his nationality (as far as that existed in those days). He is both claimed by Flanders (Belgium) and the north of France, but as he hasn't won in France, I think we can safely annex him.
From the catholic encyclopedia (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13217a.htm):

The report of the journey which Rubruck presented to the king is a geographical masterpiece of the Middle Ages. It exceeds all earlier treatises in matter, power of observation, keenness of grasp, and clearness of presentment, besides being but little spoiled by fabulous narratives. In it Rubruck gives a clear account of the condition of China, of the characteristics and technical skill of its inhabitants, of their peculiar writing, and of the manufacture of silk; he also mentions paper money, printing, the division into castes, rice brandy, kumiss, speaks of the physicians who diagnosed diseases by the pulse, and prescribed rhubarb. The Middle Ages also owed to him the solution of a disputed geographical question; he proved that the Caspian was an inland sea and did not flow into the Arctic. He called attention to the relationship between German and the Indo-Germanic group of languages, and to the family unity of the Hungarians, Bashkirs, and Huns in the great racial division of the Finns; and he also gave a circumstantial account of the religion of the Mongols and the various ceremonies of the idolaters. Rubruck's account has been edited by the Société de Géographie in the "Recueil de voyages et de mémoires", IV (Paris, 1893), German translation by Kulb in the "Geschichte der Missionsreisen nach Mongolei", I, II (Ratisbon, 1860); English tr. by Rockhill, "The Journey of William of Rubruk to the Eastern Parts" (London, 1900).

Fram
2005-Apr-07, 11:40 AM
Amundsen's ship was named Fram. In Old English freom was used as kinsmen as in freomaegum for noble kinsmen. How is fram used?

EDIT: of course, the best link so far for Rubruck pops up right after I have posted this: here (http://depts.washington.edu/uwch/silkroad/texts/rubruck.html) you can find all the fascinating info about him that you want, and they call him Flemish, so we can include him for the greatest Belgian as well.

EDIT of the EDIT: this was supposed to come in my last post, not as a reply to yours. I probably used quote instead of edit.

I have taken Fram as a username because it's short, resembles my real name, and because it was (I thought) the ship of Fridtjof Nansen. Was Amundsen on the same ship?

About de Gerlache (http://www.south-pole.com/p0000083.htm): he was the first to spend the winter on Antarctica. Amundsen was on that expedition, but he was still rather unknown then (this was in 1897). He made some other expeditions afterwards (in the Arctic), and sold his yacht to Shackleton, who renamed it the Endurance.

Grendl
2005-Apr-07, 11:43 AM
Grendl:As far as explorers go, I can't think of one notable Belgian.

Nicolas: Would Belgium ever been interested in Antarctica without Adrien de Gerlache? Worldwide he is considered as a pioneer. De Gerlache was the person who organized the first scientific expedition to Antarctica.

:o I just looked in my Atlas of Expeditions, Explorers and Peter Freuchen's book: Amundsen, Scott, Shackleton...but no Gerlache mentioned in any of those three sources. (edit)Norway, Finland, Britain and Ireland produced some great Antartcia explorers...why isn't this guy mentioned?


Chauvinism? :) No seriously, I don't know why he wouldn't be mentioned. Maybe be cause he didn't discover really big things, or wasn't first on the pole or things like that?

About chocolatiers: I can't come up with specific names now.
Chavinism, really? This is a generalization, but I have always found those who speak Dutch, and Scandanavians to be such mild-mannered and NON-chauvinistic people. Really, I have an old friend in Amsterdam, I remember something with somebody from Sweden (sort of sneaky--talk about plate tectonics to get someone's motor running) and one of our posters is in Stockholm. They never sound angry, even when posting about politics--annoyed yes, but they do it in a quiet way. There's nobody here from Amsterdam, is there? My friend lives on Keizersgracht, which I hear is a very nice location on a canal.

You don't know any chocolatiers!! [-X

Nicolas
2005-Apr-07, 12:01 PM
Well, I know "Leonidas" but that's of course not the name of the chocolatier. And I know some stores, but those people aren't "the founders of the Belgian chocolates".

About Chauvinism: I meant chauvinism by the books not to include de Gerlache :).

Fram
2005-Apr-07, 12:01 PM
Grendl:As far as explorers go, I can't think of one notable Belgian.

Nicolas: Would Belgium ever been interested in Antarctica without Adrien de Gerlache? Worldwide he is considered as a pioneer. De Gerlache was the person who organized the first scientific expedition to Antarctica.

:o I just looked in my Atlas of Expeditions, Explorers and Peter Freuchen's book: Amundsen, Scott, Shackleton...but no Gerlache mentioned in any of those three sources. The Norway, Finland, Britain and Ireland produced some great Antartcia explorers...why isn't this guy mentioned?



There's a bit of truth to this--it is hard coming up with famous Belgians. :( Perhaps, we need to get to know you're country better. :lol:

You could start with something else :D :wink: (just kidding)
Have I not had enough coffee yet? I was slow with this one.

I was actually serious about the chocolate. If Belgium is so known for its chocolate, who is a famous chocolatier? Now that's a good way to entice people to your country! Chocolate has those dopamine effects on people--everyone would just be so happy there munching away on chocolate.

Jean Neuhaus (http://www.intrend.com/body_choco_neuhaus.html), grandson of a Swiss immigrant in Brussels, inventor of the Praline (bite-sized filled chocolates). Nowadays Neuhaus still is one of the better brands of Belgian fine chocolates.
You all know the saying 'Life is like a box of chocolates'? Well, it was Neuhaus again who invented it. So we wouldn't have gotten a life without him (I don't seem to understand the concept of an analogy completely :lol: ).
A great short history of chocolate can be found here (http://www.brownes.co.uk/acatalog/History.html).

Nicolas
2005-Apr-07, 12:05 PM
Neuhaus of course #-o I couldn't find his name. :oops:

Parrothead
2005-Apr-07, 12:21 PM
Neuhaus of course #-o I couldn't find his name. :oops:

LOL! Check page 1 of this thread. I should have posted a link back then. I just took the name from an ingredient project, I did in baking school some time ago.

Candy
2005-Apr-07, 12:22 PM
A great short history of chocolate can be found here (http://www.brownes.co.uk/acatalog/History.html).
I can't eat chocolate without getting very ill. :(

I'm amazed at how offended people get when I decline something with chocolate as an ingredient.

Nicolas
2005-Apr-07, 12:26 PM
I would only get ill after really lots of chocolate (and then still :)). I remember getting ill once from rapidly eating 2 Snickers on an empty stomach, and then playing on the PC when I was a kid. And once from an overdose of Smarties when I was really small. :)

So sad for you.

Grendl
2005-Apr-07, 12:39 PM
Amundsen's ship was named Fram. In Old English freom was used as kinsmen as in freomaegum for noble kinsmen. How is fram used?

EDIT: of course, the best link so far for Rubruck pops up right after I have posted this: here (http://depts.washington.edu/uwch/silkroad/texts/rubruck.html) you can find all the fascinating info about him that you want, and they call him Flemish, so we can include him for the greatest Belgian as well.

EDIT of the EDIT: this was supposed to come in my last post, not as a reply to yours. I probably used quote instead of edit.

I have taken Fram as a username because it's short, resembles my real name, and because it was (I thought) the ship of Fridtjof Nansen. Was Amundsen on the same ship?

About de Gerlache (http://www.south-pole.com/p0000083.htm): he was the first to spend the winter on Antarctica. Amundsen was on that expedition, but he was still rather unknown then (this was in 1897). He made some other expeditions afterwards (in the Arctic), and sold his yacht to Shackleton, who renamed it the Endurance.

Amundsen went on the Fram, so yes, I should say the Fram belonged to Nansen. He was going to the Northwest passage, but got caught up in a competition over Antarctica. My book does say that, "[he] joined the Belgian Antarctic expedition of 1897. It offered no tangible success, but plenty of valuable experience..." He had financial difficulties, too.

The book does give one mention of, "Another Franciscan, William of Rubrick..." They don't say where he was born or anything--he gets little trext space. It does say along with his meeting Great Khan and providing detail knowledge of the Mongol way of life, that he established that the Caspian Sea was land-locked.

Why are Belgians so underrated in these books? Mind you, these are not 600 page indepth books, just ones I picked up at the science museum. I do know that these kinds of books leave a lot to be desired.

Verbiest or De Gerlache get no mention. :o

Grendl
2005-Apr-07, 12:41 PM
Oh, Fram, since Nansen was Norwegian, why didn't you use a Belgian explorer's ship name? It seems Belgium needs more promotion! :wink:

Nicolas
2005-Apr-07, 12:44 PM
Adrien de Gerlache went on the Belgica.

Maybe that would be a little bit too straightforward as a username? :)

Grendl
2005-Apr-07, 12:50 PM
Neuhaus of course #-o I couldn't find his name. :oops:

LOL! Check page 1 of this thread. I should have posted a link back then. I just took the name from an ingredient project, I did in baking school some time ago.

=D> And you're not from Belgium!

I'm not fond of pralines--too sticky for my fragile teeth. Everything else is up for grabs and I have a HIGH tolerance to eating lots of chocolate before I feel sick. The "crash" from that can be as depressing as coming off some kind of drug, though. For people like me, it's not the sugar that produces the high. Chocolate feels good--I can't stand the cheap taste of "Chocolate Bunny" milk chocolate, however--yuck. There are some chocolates that are just the equivalent of drinking Boones Farm.

Fram
2005-Apr-07, 01:05 PM
Oh, Fram, since Nansen was Norwegian, why didn't you use a Belgian explorer's ship name? It seems Belgium needs more promotion! :wink:

Yep, as Nicolas said, Belgica is a bit of a strange nickname. Other Belgian explorers (the two I gave) didn't have a ship (they both went by land, I believe). And Fram is essentially my name (Fra. M.), so it's more personal.

But Rubruck should really get more attention!

Candy
2005-Apr-07, 01:07 PM
Chocolate feels good--I can't stand the cheap taste of "Chocolate Bunny" milk chocolate, however--yuck. There are some chocolates that are just the equivalent of drinking Boones Farm.
You better tell them Boone's Farm is a cheap wine. :wink:

mopc
2005-Apr-07, 02:36 PM
Why does Belgium exist anyway? Why didnt it become a part of either France or the Netherlands?

Candy
2005-Apr-07, 02:39 PM
Why does Belgium exist anyway? Why didnt it become a part of either France or the Netherlands?
Pride. 8-[

Fram
2005-Apr-07, 02:41 PM
Why does Belgium exist anyway? Why didnt it become a part of either France or the Netherlands?

A buffer between France and Germany, who were always at war, after Napoleon's defeats. It was first joined with the Netherlands (1815 - 1830), but for some reason (forgotten which), we didn't want no Dutch rule here. A mix of language (French / Dutch) and religious (Catholic / Protestant) differences probably. Apparently many countries agreed that it was better if we became two countries (both less powerful of course), and that was finally settled in 1839 (in some treaty), but our independence goes back to 1830.
Of course, the Belgae are already mentioned in Caesar's 'De Bello Gallico', so that's were we took our name from.

Nicolas
2005-Apr-07, 02:45 PM
And as far as I know, the Belgae have very little to do with current Belgium :).

I thought we separated from the Netherlands because at that time the northern Netherlands treated themselves a bit better financially than the southern Netherlands, which gengerated much of the economy however (Belgium).

Furthermore Belgium exists because it ain't part of any of its neighbouring countries.

fossilnut2
2005-Apr-07, 03:37 PM
How could the Netherlands have not become 2 countries!!!!

It was HUGE. Too much territory to rule. The Dutch King stood on the highest windmill at one end of the country (the highest point in the Netherlands) and couldn't see the other end of his kingdom. It was HUGE. Too big for one king to rule.

Pilot to passengers: "If you look down you will see the Netherlands...oops I mean Belgium...oops, sorry, it's gone.

Candy
2005-Apr-07, 03:41 PM
How could the Netherlands have not become 2 countries!!!!

It was HUGE. Too much territory to rule. The Dutch King stood on the highest windmill at one end of the country (the highest point in the Netherlands) and couldn't see the other end of his kingdom. It was HUGE. Too big for one king to rule.

Pilot to passengers: "If you look down you will see the Netherlands...oops I mean Belgium...oops, sorry, it's gone.
I have a feeling those people are just too nice to argue about boundaries. 8-[

Nicolas
2005-Apr-07, 03:44 PM
No all the other countries are afraid of us. It's just because we are so nice that we haven't captured the entire world yet. :)

We showed a demonstration when we separated wfrom the Netherlands: a buch of angry Belgians storms out of a theatre, and ten days later we're independent :).

Candy
2005-Apr-07, 03:50 PM
My heritage is Scandinavian, and we are stubborn to the end. We are so nice, though (while being stubborn). Eventually, one just gets tired of arguing with us, and gives in to our demands. :D