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snowcelt
2005-Apr-25, 08:33 AM
What a race! I think that the boy is for real.

Look how easy Micheal passed Button; yet, Alonzo kept the door closed on Micheal for 12 laps!

As a Canadian, I was happy to see Jacques do so well.

Amadeus
2005-Apr-25, 08:35 AM
Good race good finish, however here in the UK it was shown on the TV channel ITV who decided to put an ad break in during THE LAST 3 LAPS! :evil:

Heres hoping that the BBC get it next year....

snowcelt
2005-Apr-25, 08:39 AM
I sympathize. On The Speed Channel the audio kept breaking up.

captain swoop
2005-Apr-25, 08:52 AM
Well, the BBC have the Moto GP and show the full races. Bikes are far more exciting than F! parades any day.

Go Rossi!

snowcelt
2005-Apr-25, 09:02 AM
corporal swoop has a good point about bike racing; however, I think that there is a lot more to F1 than a parade. If swoop had watched this race swoop would have been quite impressed. Micheal S. on the first pit stop went from 13th position to third! Masterful!

captain swoop
2005-Apr-25, 09:17 AM
I did try to watch it honest I did. I used to be a big F1 fan back in the late 70s and early 80s. I just can't seem to raise any enthusiasm anymore. I would rather watch the BTC, at least they come to our local circuit at Croft. And as for the bikes. I can go to the garage and ride a bike that could hold its own in the Superbikes championship and the Moto GP bikes at least look like mine.

snowcelt
2005-Apr-25, 09:23 AM
You are sure correct capt when one tries to relate to F1. You can ride a good bike and be somewhat competitive---my 97 Mazda pick up would not!

LTC8K6
2005-Apr-25, 11:41 AM
Michael wouldn't have passed Button on the track if it hadn't been for those other cars. They threw a bunch of dirt on the track which Button slipped on and Michael avoided.

He would have likely gotten by Button on the pit stop anyway.

It's pretty difficult to pass in F1, as usual, unless you are a lot faster than the car in front, the other guy makes a mistake, or you do it in the pits. I wouldn't make too much of the fact that the Ferrari didn't get past the Renault.

The fact that the Ferrari ran the Honda and then the Renault down so easily has got to be demoralizing.

The announcers were claiming it was because Michael was light on fuel, but then he easily ran the Renault down after his pit stop as well.

kucharek
2005-Apr-25, 12:03 PM
Rumours say, that some pressure is off of Schumacher since he isn't any longer the most famous German working in Italy. :-)

snowcelt
2005-Apr-25, 12:09 PM
Rumours say, that some pressure is off of Schumacher since he isn't any longer the most famous German working in Italy. :-)

There are no other famous Germans in Italy. Woe! Do you mean famous Germans surrounded by Italy? :D

Argos
2005-Apr-25, 01:34 PM
They should stop racing in circuits that don´t allow overtakings. What´s the point in it? This safety paranoia is ruining F-1. If people want safety go play solitaire.

Parrothead
2005-Apr-25, 01:35 PM
It was nice to see passing on the track for a change. The last few years have been rather dull with most of the passing done in the pits. The pass Schumacher put on Button was well timed with coming upon backmarkers. Alonso did a great job keeping MS at bay. Not quite as good, but in some respect, it reminded me of the Senna-Mansell duel at Monaco 1992 (http://www.f1-grandprix.com/senna1_mov.html). If yesterday's race is a glimpse of the coming season, I say bring it on! :D Hopefully, Raikkonen will enter the fray as well in future races. Now, I just have to figure out Speed Channel's WRC coverage, so I can cheer on Markko Martin.

edit for word spacing

captain swoop
2005-Apr-25, 01:56 PM
That's why I like the MOTO GP. In the first race on the season 1st and 2nd place swapped back and forth 3 times in the last lap!!

LTC8K6
2005-Apr-25, 04:09 PM
Button may well be disqualified yet. His car was underweight, but the explanation BAR gave to the race stewards was accepted after the race.

However, the FIA is not yet satisfied.

General Zod
2005-Apr-25, 05:17 PM
The Imola GP was terrific. Alonso who came off 2 wins in a row vs. 7-time champ Schumacher who blistered from the back to the front in no time..... it almost seemed set-up! Conspiracy, I say! jk, great race =D> I was pulling for Mike but congrats to Alonso for holding him off.

farmerjumperdon
2005-Apr-25, 05:38 PM
I check out F1 on the tube once in a while, mostly because the machines amaze me - 18,000 RPM!!!! They are the ultimate racers (automobile at least). It was on the network here, and I did see a pass or 2.

One comment though about being able to compete with the pros, or race with the pros, on a bike you can buy. Depends on what you mean by YOU and COMPETE. If you mean you could jump on a bike (any bike) and give them a run for their money, as in keep up - I very seriously doubt it. It's one thing to drive fast, it's another thing to race.

To prove the point, I think it was Dirt Bike magazine that did a little experiment back in the mid-70's. They had one of the big name pros get on a showroom stock moto-crosser, which were relatively tame compared to the factory works bikes. Can't remember if it was one of the editors or a magazine test rider or just a guy who thought he could race; got on the factory works racer. The pro on the foo-foo bike absolutely crushed the foo-foo on the race bike. Doesn't prove anything unequivocally, but I think it drove home the point that racing skills are necessary, not just the desire or even the ability to go fast.

IMO, that is why NASCAR is so popular here. Half the Budweiser crowd I've chatted with thinks they could run competitively if they just had the money to own a car.

Nicolas
2005-Apr-25, 06:46 PM
I noticed that the RPM "drops back" to 10.000 RPM during gear changing on a F1 car yesterday :-). In the late 60's, the engines used to top "only just" above 10.000 RPM :-?

I saw the complete race, but little question still:

Did MS really overtake other cars to go from 13 to 3, or was it all done in the other cars' pit stops? MS was never into view until he was 3rd on our broadcast, so I couldn't know.

The race was =D> =D> !!

Parrothead
2005-Apr-25, 07:07 PM
Pit strategy played the big part of getting him from 13th to 3rd (leapfrogging the train of slower cars running 4-7th). The time that it took him to get past Button, allowed Alonso to get enough of a lead to force Schumacher to pass him on track for the lead. TSN picks up the ITV feed for races, so my biggest gripe during the race was the "intermittent" commentary.

Nicolas
2005-Apr-25, 07:36 PM
We had full race with full commentary, but they really never showed MS until he was 3rd. The commentary talked about "a magnificent set of passings by MS" at that time, but I hadn't seen a single one; hence I thought they were going insane on pit passings only :D

So he did make about 5 real passes before Button. That's worth noting indeed.

(btw thread title: "Alonso" :))

captain swoop
2005-Apr-26, 09:45 AM
One comment though about being able to compete with the pros, or race with the pros, on a bike you can buy. Depends on what you mean by YOU and COMPETE. If you mean you could jump on a bike (any bike) and give them a run for their money, as in keep up - I very seriously doubt it. It's one thing to drive fast, it's another thing to race.
.

I have a Ducati 916SBK, I do pretty well on track days and back in the days of my youth (1980s) I was a regular tearaway on the roads across the moors. I could hold my own against some of the Superbikes backmarkers.
When it comes to bikes a lot of it is down to not being scared of falling off. I have gone up the road too many times to worry. :D

farmerjumperdon
2005-Apr-26, 01:45 PM
What's a Superbike Backmarker?

I hear you about the not-being-afraid-to-fall part. Since most people do not push a machine (bike or car) beyond the point of control, they really don't know where the edge of control is, and therefore can not go right up to it at will without crossing the line. A big part of training in skydiving is intentionally putting students out of control, then seeing how for well they do at regaining control. This is accomplished by having them do front or back flips, which almost all fail at first. The coach can then assess how well they are at getting stable again (how much altitude they burn up). Same for my car. I never knew what it really could do until I spun it a few times and got a good feel for where the edge of control was. (All in a controlled environment of course).

Then again, I think the fear is a good thing. The general public thinks we are fearless. There is even a sportwear line that is popular with some extreme sports enthusiasts named NO FEAR. Couldn't be further from the truth. The fear is what keeps us keenly aware. It clears the mind of trivialities and puts a person in the present the way nothing else can. I think that's why people do things like racing, climbing, skydiving, rodeo, etc... It requires extreme focus, but is also a sort of escape from the trivialities of life.

Course if you spend time screaming across the moors, you already know that. Good fun.

captain swoop
2005-Apr-26, 02:33 PM
Superbikes is a championship, all the bikes are based on road machines, no purpose built engines like the MOTO GP machines. Backmarkers are those at the back of the grid.As for No Fear, I have none when I am on my bike. I do however know my limitations although that hasn't stopped me breaking various bones on trips up the road over the years.

You wouldn't get me to jump out of an airoplane though :o , or put on a diving suit. 8-[

ed spelling

farmerjumperdon
2005-Apr-26, 02:52 PM
I was thinking of the control thing after I posted. On a bike you are definitely in a unique situation. In training to race a car; spinouts, losing control, etc. are a standard occurence. It's how you find the edge and get used to operating right at it, but not over it. Same with skydiving. There's actually plenty of room for certain kinds of errors while in training. You can totally screw up a manuever, flail, tumble, then get it back together in time for a safe deployment and landing. It's actually what the instructors are looking for. But on a bike - I can't imagine intentionally losing control at any significant speed. Very unique.

If you like tearing up the pavement on a high-powered bike - you'd love the rush of a skydive. Nothing to it - take the tourist jump - called a tandem. You don't have to do anything but enjoy the ride.

For those that always ask why anyone would jump out of a perfectly good airplane, we have 2 standard replies:

1 - There is no such thing.

2 - You haven't seen the planes from which we jump! :o

sarongsong
2005-Apr-26, 03:59 PM
Driver skills not withstanding, still adjusting to Renault as a 'superpower'---my Granma drove one!
"Better to enter a corner slowly, and come out fast, than to enter fast, and come out dead!" ---Sterling Moss (http://www.ozzieburn.com/humor/quotes/more.php)

LTC8K6
2005-May-05, 08:07 PM
BAR has been stripped of it's San Marino results and banned from the next 2 races.

Ouch! #-o

Trebuchet
2005-May-05, 11:18 PM
BAR has been stripped of it's San Marino results and banned from the next 2 races.

Ouch! #-o

Why??

captain swoop
2005-May-06, 08:40 AM
Car was under weight and apparently they had an extra auxiliry fuel tank that when empty saved over 5Kg in weight, apparently this tank was full at the start but wasn't filled through the race until the end. It was noticed in post race scrutineering.

Serves them right.

captain swoop
2005-May-06, 08:45 AM
Question is, How can they start the next two races with only 18 cars? It's against their own rules!

jumbo
2005-May-06, 10:41 AM
The BAR thing is one of those grey areas. Without fuel in this extra tank apparently the engine simply wont run. BAR believed that the rules said cars were to be weighed under operating conditions. That would mean in a condition where you could start the thing i guess. So the fuel was present in the tank to do this and the weight of the empty car reduced to compensate so the total weight of the car when it can move is legal. The FIA have now said no fuel at all and hence the car is now illegal but wont operate.
Its one of those hazy things and BAR are the ones that got caught. I bet other teams are doing the same or similar things especially as the people that make the component in question supply other teams and it seems theres a mad scramble to supply new parts all of a sudden.

LTC8K6
2005-May-06, 12:05 PM
Speculation is that BAR was also using the fuel as movable ballast.

BAR has already abandoned the race at Spain as they cannot get an appeal going in time.

LTC8K6
2005-May-06, 12:08 PM
From F1.com:


Meanwhile, FIA president Max Mosley issued a strong warning to all of the teams when he said: “We are now considering whether to select one car at random of the points scorers at every race, and stripping it to the last nut and bolt. That will give a seven to one chance that if you are cheating and finish in the points, you will get caught.”

Bernie Ecclestone reacted to the news by confirming that although a field of only 18 cars now fell short of the required 20, there would be no need for the two races for other teams to consider running third cars to make up the numbers.

captain swoop
2005-May-06, 01:09 PM
Bernie Ecclestone reacted to the news by confirming that although a field of only 18 cars now fell short of the required 20, there would be no need for the two races for other teams to consider running third cars to make up the numbers.


In other words they are going to break their own rules. I thought this would happen some day, I am surprised it has taken this long. It's a stupid rule. What if a team goes bust? would other teams be forced to enter an extra car?