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Rc2000
2005-May-18, 04:58 PM
Crop circles? bunk
Now, if aliens wanted to get my attention, they'd be making forest circles. :D Just think, acres of forest flattened out, forming designs. I mean, why do something that's so easily recreated by people? Go for the gold and do something beyond our abilities.
Check it, imagine a huge forest circle on the side of a mountain that you could see from miles away.

Rc

(wasn't sure if this would fit here or in the ATM forum)

eburacum45
2005-May-18, 06:43 PM
I seem to remember a forest somewhere in Wales where the trees were planted to spell out a word (or set of initials) in Larch amongst Spruce;

because the Larch is deciduous the message became visible in the winter.

(I think)

01101001
2005-May-18, 07:02 PM
Yeah. And to make it more impressive, just use the transporter or vaporizing ray to disappear the material. Imagine how hard it would be for humans to level a pattern in a forest -- perhaps a nice redwood forest of 100-meter trees for extra-credit -- leaving no damage and all stumps at exactly the same level.

For that matter, I've always wondered why those wacky space aliens don't disappear the cereal stalks instead of crudely knocking them over.

Swift
2005-May-18, 07:07 PM
Maybe that's what Tunguska (http://www-th.bo.infn.it/tunguska/) was?
http://www.astro.univie.ac.at/~dvorak/research/asteroid/pics/tunguska.jpg
8-[


:wink:

Gullible Jones
2005-May-18, 08:19 PM
Downbursts can cause "forrest circles" easily enough, so I don't think that method would be effective.

It would be better to just float your ship right over Manhattan Island... Or, if you don't have gravity manipulation of some sort, fire up your antimatter rockets somewhere between Earth and the Moon, and create a bright, moving speck easily visible from Earth...

PatKelley
2005-May-18, 08:21 PM
They're here!

... and they can't spell... (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=san+antonio+tx&ll=30.081682205200195,-97.14098453521729&spn=0.034117698669433594,0.03433 2275390625&t=k&hl=en)

Must be some alien product...like Gold Bond medicated tentacle cream...

Maksutov
2005-May-19, 12:18 AM
Downbursts can cause "forrest circles" easily enough, so I don't think that method would be effective.[edit]
When someone writes "forrest circles", this is what comes to mind. (http://www.dinosoria.com/tragedie/klu_001.jpg)

Just about as strange as aliens, but definitely more alienating. :evil:

sarongsong
2005-May-19, 12:32 AM
googling "forest circles" (http://www.google.com/search?q=+%22forest+circles%22&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official) yields interesting results. Apparently it is an official forestry term, its meaning not readily understood
.

collegeguy
2005-May-19, 12:44 AM
Downbursts can cause "forrest circles" easily enough, so I don't think that method would be effective.[edit]
When someone writes "forrest circles", this is what comes to mind. (http://www.dinosoria.com/tragedie/klu_001.jpg)

Just about as strange as aliens, but definitely more alienating. :evil:

Is that a group of guys of the Ku Klux klan or members of the Bohemian Grove?

Gullible Jones
2005-May-19, 01:30 AM
Ku Klux Klan, from the look of it.

Filthy *******s.

Maksutov
2005-May-19, 03:57 AM
Ku Klux Klan, from the look of it.

Filthy *******s.
That's correct, GJ.

Note the hoods with the pointy tops: they're form-fitting.

Here in the SE there appears to be some kind of equivalent of crop circles that shows up in the forests, but the patterns are very complicated. The PTB try to cover it all up under the label "clear cutting".

beskeptical
2005-May-19, 04:09 AM
Bio circles. (http://www.erc.montana.edu/Bioglyphs/Bioglyphs_01/Gallery08.htm) :D

Lianachan
2005-May-19, 06:58 AM
I seem to remember a forest somewhere in Wales where the trees were planted to spell out a word (or set of initials) in Larch amongst Spruce;

because the Larch is deciduous the message became visible in the winter.

(I think)

Somebody in Germany did that too -picking out a swastika in exactly the same way. It was planted in (I think) 1936 and was re-noticed in about 2000 and removed. Dates extracted purely from memory, and may be wildly inaccurate.

EDITED - Found a picture of it, if anybody's interested:

http://ex-parrot.com/~chris/factlets/nazi-forest-swastika.jpg

Enzp
2005-May-19, 08:03 AM
I had ringworm once, and I waited and waited for little tiny aliens to land on my arm, but they never did.

Maksutov
2005-May-19, 09:42 AM
I had ringworm once, and I waited and waited for little tiny aliens to land on my arm, but they never did.
I bet if those little tiny aliens did land on your arm, you would have cropped! :D

mickal555
2005-May-19, 10:05 AM
You guy's have got it all wrong

The alian's drop crops circles and make it look like humans so they don't get noticed....

Rc2000
2005-May-20, 04:27 PM
Neat stuff. A lot of the things mentioned I'd never heard of.

Rc

publiusr
2005-May-20, 09:11 PM
There have been many examples of huge tracts of forsts leveled by straight-line winds from Microburst large enough to be called Macrobursts if you ask me.

One was the Pakwash blowdown. One of the tornadoes that went through the Moshannon state forest in Penn. was 2.2 miles in width, and was surrounded with downbursts.

sarongsong
2005-May-30, 07:43 AM
Maybe that's what Tunguska was? :wink:"...The trees were felled in an outward motion, in a radial pattern. In the center, there was an area of trees that remained standing, although all their bark and branches had been destroyed...Ecological consequences of the Tunguska explosion include genetic impact; remarkably quick revival of the taiga, and accelerated growth of young trees..."
UFO USSR by Paul Stonehill and Philip Mantle (http://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page963.html?theme=light)

publiusr
2005-Jun-08, 07:24 PM
I have heard everything from spacecraft to Geometeors. Some suggest a huge iced up natural gas deposit that surfaced around the "telephone pole" trees.

Gullible Jones
2005-Jun-09, 12:45 AM
"...The trees were felled in an outward motion, in a radial pattern. In the center, there was an area of trees that remained standing, although all their bark and branches had been destroyed...Ecological consequences of the Tunguska explosion include genetic impact; remarkably quick revival of the taiga, and accelerated growth of young trees..."
UFO USSR by Paul Stonehill and Philip Mantle


This smacks of woo.

Archer17
2005-Jun-09, 01:54 AM
"...The trees were felled in an outward motion, in a radial pattern. In the center, there was an area of trees that remained standing, although all their bark and branches had been destroyed...Ecological consequences of the Tunguska explosion include genetic impact; remarkably quick revival of the taiga, and accelerated growth of young trees..."
UFO USSR by Paul Stonehill and Philip Mantle
This smacks of woo.Mr. Stonehill has a book he's peddling about Soviet UFOs. Regarding Tunguska, he also claims there were "gifted" children born in the region following that event. :roll: There was a lot of scuttlebutt regarding Tunguska last year when some Russian researchers supposedly found evidence of "alien technology" but, as is so often the case, the tale died on the vine. Here's (http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/tunguska_event_040812.html) a link from a 2004 space.com article that touches on this and features some commentary from the BA as well.

BTW, Paul Stonehill posts on the Ed Mitchell board and he and Jim Oberg, who is a UFO-skeptic among other things, (http://www.jamesoberg.com/profile.html) have discussed the possibility of a future televised debate. Mr. Oberg is knowledgeable on many things Russian, including the Soviet UFO lore, so it's not surprising they have a history. :wink: I'll give this board a heads-up if such a debate comes to fruition.

Nereth
2005-Jun-09, 02:00 AM
"...The trees were felled in an outward motion, in a radial pattern. In the center, there was an area of trees that remained standing, although all their bark and branches had been destroyed...Ecological consequences of the Tunguska explosion include genetic impact; remarkably quick revival of the taiga, and accelerated growth of young trees..."
UFO USSR by Paul Stonehill and Philip Mantle


This smacks of woo.

I saw something about this a long time ago and the impact landed at an angle which caused something like a butterfly pattern demolishing everything in front of the impact but doing a lot less damage to stuff behind the impact. I remember them expermenting with different impacts and straws seeing how different angles of impact could tople certain straws. As for accelerated growth, couldnt the loss of most of the trees in the area remove competition and help other plants grow faster?

Gillianren
2005-Jun-09, 03:13 AM
As for accelerated growth, couldnt the loss of most of the trees in the area remove competition and help other plants grow faster?

makes sense to me. then again, I'm not a dendrologist. botanist. biologist. whatever would be appropriate.

Ripper 2.0
2005-Jun-09, 03:25 AM
Most conifers grow best in clear cut areas. I am pretty sure that part of Siberia was mostly pine and spruce. If you look at most pine used in consturction used today it was grown on re-planted land that was clear-cut and grew very fast. If you look at pine from 50+ years ago the growth rings are much closer together. I went through Yellowstone just a few years after the big fire, and it was amazing how much had re-grown.

sarongsong
2005-Jun-09, 04:32 AM
...I saw something about this a long time ago and the impact landed at an angle...Do you recall what they said it was that impacted and did they find evidence/samples of it?

Archer17
2005-Jun-09, 04:43 AM
...I saw something about this a long time ago and the impact landed at an angle...Do you recall what they said it was that impacted and did they find evidence/samples of it?Better yet .. who said it actually impacted on the ground? It's pretty well established (even the woo woos agree here) that this was an air-burst.

sarongsong
2005-Jun-09, 04:56 AM
"an air-burst'---the air just bursted all by itself...okay...

Celestial Mechanic
2005-Jun-09, 05:06 AM
"an air-burst'---the air just bursted all by itself...okay...
Air-burst refers to an explosion in the air as opposed to one on the ground or near enough to suck up soil into the debris cloud, called (naturally) a ground-burst. This terminology goes back at least to the days of above-ground nuclear testing, when it was realized that an air-burst could do a lot more damage than a ground burst (and with less fallout, too).

Archer17
2005-Jun-09, 05:14 AM
Thanks CM. I was trying to think of a tactful reply.

Archer17
2005-Jun-09, 05:20 AM
"an air-burst'---the air just bursted all by itself...okay...I'm curious sarongsong. Both mainstream and woo woo thinking have Tunguska as being an airburst, yet you didn't even know what I was talking about. You cited Stonehill (via C2C) earlier. Even though he believes it was an alien craft, he believes it expolded above Siberia. Have you actually listened to him or do you post citations just to post citations?

Ripper 2.0
2005-Jun-09, 05:50 AM
"an air-burst'---the air just bursted all by itself...okay...
Air-burst refers to an explosion in the air as opposed to one on the ground or near enough to suck up soil into the debris cloud, called (naturally) a ground-burst. This terminology goes back at least to the days of above-ground nuclear testing, when it was realized that an air-burst could do a lot more damage than a ground burst (and with less fallout, too).

Actually, air-burst conventional munitions go back before WWII. It has long been known that any air burst will do more damage than an direct impact (unless you are trying to take out a bunker). It is not the easiest thing to do though, and a lot of the early VT munitions were crap. In any case the term "Air-burst" is an old one.

sarongsong
2005-Jun-09, 06:02 AM
...he believes it was an alien craft...Two craft---what caused the air-burst?

Archer17
2005-Jun-09, 06:12 AM
...he believes it was an alien craft...Two craft---what caused the air-burst?I use craft as singular or plural, but enough semantics... what did Stonehill allege happened to those two craft? hmm? :-k

sarongsong
2005-Jun-09, 06:31 AM
...an alien craft...I use craft as singular or plural, but enough semantics...Uh-ah...an is singular [-X
Oh, I know what Stoney alleges...just awaiting the definitive version... :D

Archer17
2005-Jun-09, 06:48 AM
...an alien craft...I use craft as singular or plural, but enough semantics...Uh-ah...an is singular [-X
Oh, I know what Stoney alleges...just awaiting the definitive version... :DThe "an" was a mistake sarongsong. Doesn't get around you playing dumb regarding an airburst. I occasionally talk to Paul Stonehill on another board and besides his woo woo beliefs, he seems like a nice guy. Like me he has some Ukrainian roots. That's good for something in my book. Anyway, I'm well aware of what he alleges happened over Siberia in 1908. The two "UFOs" (one from the south, one from the east). Hate to break this to you, but there is no definitive version of what he peddles. Was it the same day? Was it an "interception?" Some allege it was only one UFO. Actually there's more woo woo ideas about Tunguska than Bayer has asprin. I believe Mr. Stonehill believes what he was told (since he wasn't there in 1908) and is an articulate writer, but he employs no critical thinking to separate the weed from the chaff. There is no evidence whatsoever that what happened over Tunguska was unnatural. None. Look it up yourself objectively (that means non-woo woo sources too). There's millions of woo woo claims, tons of anecdote, but not one micro gram of proof. If anyone can provide me with some I'd gladly change my opinion.

Edited twice - grammar/clarity

Nereth
2005-Jun-09, 06:48 AM
...I saw something about this a long time ago and the impact landed at an angle...Do you recall what they said it was that impacted and did they find evidence/samples of it?

Unfortunatly I was a lot younger when I saw it so I cant remember most of the details. Did a little searching just now and found this page with some information on the event including the air burst idea, and some other "interesting" ideas on what could have caused it.

http://www.what-means.com/encyclopedia/Tunguska_event

Archer17
2005-Jun-09, 06:54 AM
...I saw something about this a long time ago and the impact landed at an angle...Do you recall what they said it was that impacted and did they find evidence/samples of it?

Unfortunatly I was a lot younger when I saw it so I cant remember most of the details. Did a little searching just now and found this page with some information on the event including the air burst idea, and some other "interesting" ideas on what could have caused it.

http://www.what-means.com/encyclopedia/Tunguska_eventActually the what-means.com link left out another woo woo theory .. Tesla's "death-ray." :wink:

sarongsong
2005-Jun-09, 08:51 AM
...there is no definitive version of what he peddles...There is no evidence whatsoever that what happened over Tunguska was unnatural...If anyone can provide me with some I'd gladly change my opinion.I was referring to the definitive version of what happened at Tanguska, period. What evidence do you have that it was natural?

Archer17
2005-Jun-09, 10:34 AM
...there is no definitive version of what he peddles...There is no evidence whatsoever that what happened over Tunguska was unnatural...If anyone can provide me with some I'd gladly change my opinion.I was referring to the definitive version of what happened at Tanguska, period. What evidence do you have that it was natural?Lack of evidence that it was "unnatural" for starters.

R.A.F.
2005-Jun-09, 12:30 PM
What evidence do you have that it was natural?

The idea that the event at Tunguska was somehow "unnatural" is an extraordinary claim...as such, it is up to you, sarongsong, to provide evidence to confirm that. It is not up to us to prove that it was natural.

N C More
2005-Jun-09, 12:47 PM
Say, this reminds me of this article from Pravda (http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/378/13705_tunguska.html). I gather that the "chunk of a UFO" they found didn't pan out! :D

sarongsong
2005-Jun-09, 05:47 PM
...It is not up to us to prove that it was natural...Not asking for proof, just any evidence it was a natural event; apparently a one-time event, unless there are other similar occurrances, of which I am unaware.

Archer17
2005-Jun-09, 06:39 PM
...It is not up to us to prove that it was natural...Not asking for proof, just any evidence it was a natural event; apparently a one-time event, unless there are other similar occurrances, of which I am unaware.Like R.A.F. said, those who make extraordinary claims have to supply the evidence for those claims. Same goes for those who cite those extraordinary claims. If you find the concept of a meteor strike unbelievable while peddling woo alternatives, you need to work on your critical thinking. An objective internet research would show that there has been nothing to indicate Tunguska was an alien spaceship(s) or any of the other woo alternatives. You want evidence for things like Tunguska? Start by looking up impactors. It has happened before, and was much worse.

pghnative
2005-Jun-09, 11:48 PM
...What evidence do you have that it was natural?
Isn't everything?