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View Full Version : Bad Airline management (not UA!)



kucharek
2005-May-30, 01:13 PM
One for Candy:

http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/Zimbabwe/0,,2-11-1662_1713369,00.html
http://www.zwnews.com/issuefull.cfm?ArticleID=11915



Air Zim flies a lone passenger from Dubai

National airline, Air Zimbabwe, on Wednesday shattered aviation records history by cruising more than 6 000 km between Dubai and Harare with one passenger,...
[...]
When the plane reportedly returned home with only one passenger, the source, an aviation expert, said, “We have made aviation history. Since 1903 when the first flight took off, no international aircraft has cruised such long distances this with one passenger aboard.”
[...]

Candy
2005-May-30, 02:30 PM
I better edit, before I get in trouble.

What about cargo? I can't see an airplane taking off, unless they were able to at least make even on the flight.

Nicolas
2005-May-30, 03:51 PM
I better edit, before I get in trouble.

What about cargo? I can't see an airplane taking off, unless they were able to at least make even on the flight.

Never heard of the Concorde? :lol:

tmosher
2005-May-30, 04:47 PM
I better edit, before I get in trouble.

What about cargo? I can't see an airplane taking off, unless they were able to at least make even on the flight.

Braniff Airlines - Boeing 747 - DFW to South Korea - crew outnumbered the passengers on a regular basis.

Late 2003, two bankrupt airlines had break-even load factors that approached 125%.

Careless
2005-May-30, 06:09 PM
I better edit, before I get in trouble.

What about cargo? I can't see an airplane taking off, unless they were able to at least make even on the flight.
I flew on a 767 DC to chicago with 9 passengers, no cargo. they just needed it there so it could fly out in the morning. Bad scheduling

Candy
2005-May-30, 06:17 PM
I better edit, before I get in trouble.

What about cargo? I can't see an airplane taking off, unless they were able to at least make even on the flight.
I flew on a 767 DC to chicago with 9 passengers, no cargo. they just needed it there so it could fly out in the morning. Bad scheduling
I understand this for the US market, but for Africa? Big difference with making a profit. The article said Air Zim didn't even advertise a new destination from India. Sounds like the company did some very poor planning.

Careless
2005-May-30, 06:50 PM
I better edit, before I get in trouble.

What about cargo? I can't see an airplane taking off, unless they were able to at least make even on the flight.
I flew on a 767 DC to chicago with 9 passengers, no cargo. they just needed it there so it could fly out in the morning. Bad scheduling
I understand this for the US market, but for Africa? Big difference with making a profit. The article said Air Zim didn't even advertise a new destination from India. Sounds like the company did some very poor planning.
Well ,this was a flight from UAE to zimbabwe, don't think advertising in india would help :wink:
Anyway it's hard to put cargo on a plane going into zimbabwe when zimbabwe's imports are down so much. the country is broke, the currency is worthless, no foreign exchange reserves, etc. Can't really comment on how they're running the airline without getting into politics though

A Thousand Pardons
2005-May-30, 06:52 PM
Sounds like the company did some very poor planning.
And now is trying to recoup some of the expense by making a publicity splash...

Russ
2005-May-30, 06:56 PM
A bunch of years ago I flew on a United 737 Portland, OR to Chicago with only 6 passengers. The FA's invited us all up to 1st class and fed us the 1st class meals and booze. It was a redeye so the sleeping was better too. :D

Candy
2005-May-30, 06:56 PM
I better edit, before I get in trouble.

What about cargo? I can't see an airplane taking off, unless they were able to at least make even on the flight.
I flew on a 767 DC to chicago with 9 passengers, no cargo. they just needed it there so it could fly out in the morning. Bad scheduling
I understand this for the US market, but for Africa? Big difference with making a profit. The article said Air Zim didn't even advertise a new destination from India. Sounds like the company did some very poor planning.
Well ,this was a flight from UAE to zimbabwe, don't think advertising in india would help :wink:
Anyway it's hard to put cargo on a plane going into zimbabwe when zimbabwe's imports are down so much. the country is broke, the currency is worthless, no foreign exchange reserves, etc. Can't really comment on how they're running the airline without getting into politics though
Oops, about Dubai and India. I always think those are the same country. :oops:

The country may be broke, but did you see how much money the bank sunk into this airline? Well, I presume it was toward the airline and facilities. I'll have to read the articles again.

Candy
2005-May-30, 07:00 PM
A bunch of years ago I flew on a United 737 Portland, OR to Chicago with only 6 passengers. The FA's invited us all up to 1st class and fed us the 1st class meals and booze. It was a redeye so the sleeping was better too. :D
I call them stewardesses, now. They have lost all credibility in my eyes lately. :wink:

Candy
2005-May-30, 07:02 PM
The Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe (RBZ) this year chipped in with a $1.1 trillion facility to boost the company’s turnaround strategies while government chipped in with two MA60 airliners from China.
Somebody's got some money. 8-[

Argos
2005-May-30, 07:07 PM
I could be comical, if it wasn´t so tragic. Calling it bad management is being kind.

teddyv
2005-May-30, 07:16 PM
I could be comical, if it wasn´t so tragic. Calling it bad management is being kind.

Well said.

This is Zimbabwe we are talking about, whose current leader is not what I'd call stable. The airline is most likely a national-government run airline and not "required" to make a profit.

Careless
2005-May-30, 07:16 PM
The Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe (RBZ) this year chipped in with a $1.1 trillion facility to boost the company’s turnaround strategies while government chipped in with two MA60 airliners from China.
Somebody's got some money. 8-[
That's about $50 million dollars at the black market exchange rate
Also they seem to have blown the last of their reserves early this year, providing lots of subsidized goods right before the elections.

Russ
2005-May-30, 07:28 PM
A bunch of years ago I flew on a United 737 Portland, OR to Chicago with only 6 passengers. The FA's invited us all up to 1st class and fed us the 1st class meals and booze. It was a redeye so the sleeping was better too. :D
I call them stewardesses, now. They have lost all credibility in my eyes lately. :wink:

I typically do too but given the community here, I didn't want to step on anybodies ego. One of the things I've noticed over the years, like any profession, there's goodun's & baddun's. The problem I see is, the goodun's aren't as good as they usetabe and the baddun's are worse. :roll:

Candy
2005-May-30, 07:35 PM
The Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe (RBZ) this year chipped in with a $1.1 trillion facility to boost the company’s turnaround strategies while government chipped in with two MA60 airliners from China.
Somebody's got some money. 8-[
That's about $50 million dollars at the black market exchange rate
Also they seem to have blown the last of their reserves early this year, providing lots of subsidized goods right before the elections.
Even more reason to not fly an "empty" plane. :wink:

Tranquility
2005-May-30, 07:42 PM
Dubai! I live there! :D

Candy
2005-May-30, 07:44 PM
Dubai! I live there! :D
And remember, I thought you were in India, too? #-o

PhantomWolf
2005-May-31, 04:42 PM
heh, you don't want to hear my UA story coming to the States, it's rathger long involving a heart attack, a stop in US Samoa, a 14 hour pacific flight, customs going home, lost luggage containers, a 2 hour queue, and an unscheduled night in LA.

I just hope the trip home is a little less eventful.

Melusine
2005-May-31, 04:48 PM
I've flown an empty 747 once on a four hour trip; I could have had the run of the place, but I don't even like 747's. It was a scheduling thing--Delta, I believe. That never happens with the airline I fly now, because they've cut redundancy in flights to popular places. It's always full, and annoyingly over-booked. It seems every flight I've taken in the last two years, they've offered free tickets for those willing to wait for another flight.

Candy
2005-May-31, 04:50 PM
heh, you don't want to hear my UA story coming to the States, it's rathger long involving a heart attack, a stop in US Samoa, a 14 hour pacific flight, customs going home, lost luggage containers, a 2 hour queue, and an unscheduled night in LA.

I just hope the trip home is a little less eventful.
You'll know in about 1.5 hours. That's the deadline for the machinist and their threat to strike. :evil:

Candy
2005-May-31, 08:00 PM
heh, you don't want to hear my UA story coming to the States, it's rathger long involving a heart attack, a stop in US Samoa, a 14 hour pacific flight, customs going home, lost luggage containers, a 2 hour queue, and an unscheduled night in LA.

I just hope the trip home is a little less eventful.
You'll know in about 1.5 hours. That's the deadline for the machinist and their threat to strike. :evil:


You're safe! United Airlines, Union Announce Agreement (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=806854)! :D

I hope your trip is better on the return portion. My apologies. BTW, why the stop in Somoa? :-?

Tobin Dax
2005-Jun-01, 12:55 AM
A bunch of years ago I flew on a United 737 Portland, OR to Chicago with only 6 passengers. The FA's invited us all up to 1st class and fed us the 1st class meals and booze. It was a redeye so the sleeping was better too. :D

Note to self: Take UA redeye flights on trips home. That sounds like a great trip. If only it could happen at Christmas. :-?

paulie jay
2005-Jun-01, 03:57 AM
In Sydney yesterday the morning Cathay Pacific flight arrived with only 23 passengers and about 18 crew... now that's sevice! (Usually this flight tops 250 - 300 pax).

Trebuchet
2005-Jun-01, 04:10 AM
A bunch of years ago I flew on a United 737 Portland, OR to Chicago with only 6 passengers. The FA's invited us all up to 1st class and fed us the 1st class meals and booze. It was a redeye so the sleeping was better too. :D

(Apologies in advance to Candy.)

On the other hand, about six or seven years ago my company booked me on UA from Seattle to Burbank. Since it was UA, I had to change planes in SFO. (San Francisco) I'm convinced if you flew UA from Seattle to Portland, you'd go by way of SFO. If not Denver or Chicago.

Anyhow, once I got to SFO, they cancelled the connecting flight due to "mechanical difficulties". The mechanical difficulty was that there were only about a dozen passengers. I strongly dislike being lied to by major corporations. The gate agents didn't even try very hard to be convincing.

On the way back, my UA flight didn't leave until about 8:00 P.M. so I walked up to the Alaska desk and asked if they'd take my ticket. I not only got a direct flight (UA was changing in SFO again), but they gave me about $50 back.

That's what I meant about bad management in an earlier post. Treating customers like *%#@^ is simply dumb. They go elsewhere, like I have ever since if I have a choice.

Candy
2005-Jun-01, 01:06 PM
I strongly dislike being lied to by major corporations. How do you know they were lying?

Most flights are based on round trips from location to location. For instance, the red eye from ORD to SEA will overnight in SEA. Then it is the first flight back to ORD the following day.

The a couple of reasons a flight will cancel are weather, crew shortage, and mechanical. If your plane had to overnight it due to mechanical, then I guarantee another plane was ferried into your destination for those folks traveling from SEA to BUR the next morning. Otherwise, the whole system gets thrown out of whack.

It wouldn't have been practical for any airline to ferry a plane from elsewhere for 20 passengers, in your case. It would be cheaper for UA to protect the folks on another flight (or another airline) or put them up at a hotel for the night. I'm surprised Alaskan Airlines gave you money back. Normal procedure would have been for UA to protect you on Alaskan, and perhaps give you travel certificates for the inconvenience.

You must've had some kind of ticket without many fare rules or restrictions. :P

And no offense taken, Trebuchet, United is not a West Coast kind of airline. Our hubs are SFO, LAX, DEN, ORD, & IAD. Now, those destinations are sure to get you a non-stop flight. BTW, direct flights are different from non-stop flights. A direct flight means you will make a stop, but your flight number will not change, and you don't have to exit the plane.

Last night, a plane from LIH to SFO (non-stop) hit some birds and had to make a stop in HNL to have the "engines" checked out. Since the plane was there and not completely full, UA decided to add it as an extra segment from HNL to SFO. That means open for sale to passengers wanting to get back to the mainland. I don't work in the Revenue Department, but that sounded like a pretty good plan to me.

It's not that we meant to disservice the original passengers wanting to enjoy a non-stop flight, the stop was for their safety, as well. Plus, we made some extra bucks, in the meantime. We need all the help we can get right now. :wink:

I was surprised to see on the News last night, when passengers were told there would be no strike. I wanted to cry listening to all the dedicated UNITED Mileage Plus travelers express their gratitude that we will love to see another business day. It made me so proud.

Then I got in trouble at work for an email I sent. Life just isn't fair sometimes. 8-[

Trebuchet
2005-Jun-02, 04:05 AM
I strongly dislike being lied to by major corporations. How do you know they were lying?

Mostly just the lack of other passengers and the attitude of the gate agents. It was also pretty clear they could not have cared less about inconvenience to paying customers. Also, the plane I eventually continued on, two hours later, was parked at the gate the whole time. This isn't conclusive because as you said, the mechanical problem could have been elsewhere.


You must've had some kind of ticket without many fare rules or restrictions. :P

This is because I could trade it in? Anyhow, yes, it was business travel on short notice so I expect it was full fare.