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ToSeek
2005-Jun-09, 04:26 PM
Astronomers criticise plans to allow cellphone use on planes (http://www.newscientistspace.com/channel/space-tech/dn7493)


Phoning to say you are ‘on the plane’ could fool astronomers into thinking they are witnessing the death of a star

NEOWatcher
2005-Jun-09, 04:37 PM
I don't want to be adversarial, just curious. what is the difference between cell phone transmissions and other aviation transmissions, not to mention satellite transmissions? Don't we have harmonic problems now? Wouldn't it just be a problem only for a second as the plane passes through the line of "sight"?

Argos
2005-Jun-09, 05:29 PM
I don't want to be adversarial, just curious. what is the difference between cell phone transmissions and other aviation transmissions, not to mention satellite transmissions?

Their coincident frequencies. It happens that certain harmonics fall within the gamut of frequencies related to the radio signature of newborn stars. Other frequencies from other devices would not be so harmful.

NEOWatcher
2005-Jun-09, 05:57 PM
And what about directionality (if that's a word). Isnt a radio telescope only looking at a very narrow cone of incomming transmissions? Doesn't the fact that the plane is moving very fast (in relation to what you are looking at) have any effect?

Argos
2005-Jun-09, 06:14 PM
Yeah, the direction of the signal is an issue, as long as a unidirectional antenna (like most of the radio telescopes) is concerned. It wouldn´t be a big deal for an interferometer, methinks. Maybe they are being just too rigorous, letting their inner feelings about cell phones emerge:


However, another factor may be more important in the decision. Among the nearly 8000 comments submitted to the FCC, many - including one from flight attendants - echo a sentiment by Michael Traynor of Lakewood, California. He writes: "Being in an aeroplane seat for a four to five-hour flight is arduous enough in itself without additional annoyances such as a plane full of cellphone yakkers. Keep the ban as it is!"

John Kierein
2005-Jun-09, 06:18 PM
Probably not an issue for SETI. Nobody could confuse cell phone conversation with INTELLIGENCE.

NEOWatcher
2005-Jun-09, 06:20 PM
Maybe they are being just too rigorous, letting their inner feelings about cell phones emerge
Could be, but I'm not going to say that because I'm no authority on the subject.

I believe there are times when not to talk (especially driving). But some of the arguments don't make sense. People don't like other people talking on a cell in a restaraunt. Is it because they cant here both sides of the conversation like they do when two people are there? I just hate the ringing. Here at work, we have a lot of people who leave their phone at their desk while they're somewhere else in the building.[/quote]

TravisM
2005-Jun-09, 06:23 PM
Cells broadcast in a sphere, so it wouldn't matter much if the plane was on the near horizon or directly above a radio telescope.
I like the idea of the relay station within the plane. It would multiplex the signals from the plane through a single frequency not in use by radio astronomers while still allowing cell phone use.
But, I'm of a mind of the quote above. I don't like yackers anywhere. You ever wait to turn right at a red light and the gal in the car in front of you is yackin' away, oblivious to the fact that she can turn right on red? :evil:

Argos
2005-Jun-09, 06:36 PM
Maybe they are being just too rigorous, letting their inner feelings about cell phones emerge
Could be, but I'm not going to say that because I'm no authority on the subject.

What subject, astrophysics or psychology? :)

just kidding

NEOWatcher
2005-Jun-09, 06:59 PM
What subject, astrophysics or psychology?

Take your pick. In fact, add a few more if you're interested. 8-[

Argos
2005-Jun-09, 07:07 PM
Cells broadcast in a sphere,

Sure, but a dish "prefer" to receive from certain directions. See directivity (http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/jk1/lectures/node83.html).

ToSeek
2005-Jun-09, 07:08 PM
People don't like other people talking on a cell in a restaraunt. Is it because they cant here both sides of the conversation like they do when two people are there?

I think there are two reasons:

1. People tend to talk louder than normal when they're on the phone.
2. When they are on the phone, the sound goes talking-quiet-talking-quiet-talking-quiet, rather than being a more continuous buzz as when two or more people are talking. It's harder to tune out.

Halcyon Dayz
2005-Jun-09, 07:23 PM
Doesn't anybody just read anymore.

NEOWatcher
2005-Jun-09, 07:27 PM
Doesn't anybody just read anymore.

Only while driving :-$

Captain Kidd
2005-Jun-09, 07:48 PM
Doesn't anybody just read anymore.
Sure they do. (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2005/03/20/financial/f195216S72.DTL) :D

Melusine
2005-Jun-09, 07:53 PM
Doesn't anybody just read anymore.
Sure they do. (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2005/03/20/financial/f195216S72.DTL) :D
Great, the world will have more blind people with crow's feet. :roll:

Melusine
2005-Jun-09, 10:49 PM
People don't like other people talking on a cell in a restaraunt. Is it because they cant here both sides of the conversation like they do when two people are there?

I think there are two reasons:

1. People tend to talk louder than normal when they're on the phone.
2. When they are on the phone, the sound goes talking-quiet-talking-quiet-talking-quiet, rather than being a more continuous buzz as when two or more people are talking. It's harder to tune out.
You know, your #2 is so dead on, and it really bothers me to hear one-way conversations--I can't tune them out in as well as two people talking, and people do talk louder on cell. I don't like the idea of people using cell phones on planes at all; it's a too-confined space to listen to people one-way yapping loudly. Fine, if there's some emergency, but if someone's seatmate is asleep, will they then look for the next victim to call to chat with? I don't think it's fair in a place where you can not get 3 inches away from your seatmates. [-(

Gillianren
2005-Jun-14, 02:26 AM
Doesn't anybody just read anymore.
Sure they do. (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2005/03/20/financial/f195216S72.DTL) :D

the article's right--my eyes hurt just thinking about it. yipe!

I hadn't thought about why cell phones in restaurants bother me before, but, in addition to agreeing with the ones mentioned already, I've another reason.

a lot of the people I see using their cell phones in restaurants are with someone. it just strikes me as rude to their dinner companion. I mean, yes, last night, I used a cell phone in a Jack in the Box--it was exactly 51 seconds, and it was me calling my boyfriend from my boss's phone to tell him that we were packed down and on our way home, and I'd be home at around 10. (almost 11, with my arthritis screaming the whole way.) the boss called his housemate for a similar conversation, except he's in Oregon, so he wouldn't be getting home until nearer 2. after that, we sat and talked to one another. much more polite.

Maksutov
2005-Jun-14, 02:33 AM
Cells broadcast in a sphere, so it wouldn't matter much if the plane was on the near horizon or directly above a radio telescope.
I like the idea of the relay station within the plane. It would multiplex the signals from the plane through a single frequency not in use by radio astronomers while still allowing cell phone use.
But, I'm of a mind of the quote above. I don't like yackers anywhere. You ever wait to turn right at a red light and the gal in the car in front of you is yackin' away, oblivious to the fact that she can turn right on red? :evil:
Ever wait? I lost count a number of years ago. Fortunately my car has a really loud horn! Plus I like to think I've taught many people how to lipread, at least for the following words, "HANG...UP...AND...DRIVE". Well, actually a few more words, but discretion being what it is... :D

Maksutov
2005-Jun-14, 02:43 AM
Reason #4: Many of these restaurant cell phone imbeciles not only talk loud, but apparently think it's necessary to stare at someone at another table while they're talking. It's like they think what they're doing is so important that they need to share their facial expressions with a stranger. Either that or it's an intimidation technique, sort of like, "I dare you to complain."

Now I'm very self-assured whether with one person or in front of a huge audience giving a presentation, but, I don't like being stared at. In addition to requesting that these clowns tone it down, I've also gotten up, walked over to them, and said, "Excuse me, I don't enjoy being stared at. Please look somewhere else. Better yet, how about hanging up and allowing the rest of us in here to enjoy our meals?"

Courtesy, at least with a lot of folks in the US, is a dying art form. :evil:

jt-3d
2005-Jun-14, 10:27 AM
I don't like being stared at.
:o :o :o :o :o

Maksutov
2005-Jun-14, 10:49 AM
I don't like being stared at.
:o :o :o :o :o
By living people, not silly little smilies!

But perhaps you freaked out some others reading this thread! :o

AstroSmurf
2005-Jun-14, 11:37 AM
This (http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20050612) is another thing that might cause trouble... :wink:

Glom
2005-Jun-16, 12:35 AM
I once had a mobile phone screw up the GNS 430 on the aircraft I was flying. I couldn't receive Southend anymore and instead there was some weird buzzing. I didn't realise it was the mobile until I was back on the ground and saw I'd left it on.

W.F. Tomba
2005-Jun-16, 03:39 AM
People don't like other people talking on a cell in a restaraunt. Is it because they cant here both sides of the conversation like they do when two people are there?

I think there are two reasons:

1. People tend to talk louder than normal when they're on the phone.
2. When they are on the phone, the sound goes talking-quiet-talking-quiet-talking-quiet, rather than being a more continuous buzz as when two or more people are talking. It's harder to tune out.
There's an easy technological solution to #2: put a little speaker in the back of the cell phone that emits the same sound the user hears, but not clearly enough to make it possible to hear what's being said. That way the sound, to a bystander, would alternate between intelligible and unintelligible speech, just as with a conversation when one person is facing you and the other is facing away from you.

Argos
2005-Jun-16, 01:47 PM
Cells broadcast in a sphere, so it wouldn't matter much if the plane was on the near horizon or directly above a radio telescope.

If this was true then certain branches of astrophysics would have been ruined long ago (at least ten years)...