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Prince
2002-Aug-09, 08:40 AM
"In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened." (Genesis 7:11).

Inner Earth May Hold More Water Than the Seas

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/03/0307_0307_waterworld.html

Kaptain K
2002-Aug-09, 10:51 AM
Inner Earth May Hold More Water Than the Seas
Well, DUH!!!
The Earth is ~13,000 kilometers in diameter.
The oceans are eqivalent to a film ~1 kilometer thick over this globe.
I'll leave it as an exercise to calculate the average percentage of H2O in the Earth's interior for the total water in the Earth to exceed the water on the Earth. (Hint: Note the number of zeros after the decimal point!

_________________
When all is said and done - sit down and shut up!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kaptain K on 2002-08-09 06:52 ]</font>

Russ
2002-Aug-12, 10:31 PM
I'd think that thered have to be a significan amount within the crust. Just one incident, the 1964 Alaskan Earthquake, ripped a gash in the sea floor that water poured into for about 45 minutes (I can't remember the exact statistic. Anybody?). It kept the Ankorage harbor a mud flat the whole time.

Anybody else heard of other incidents?

Gsquare
2002-Aug-13, 02:24 AM
I'd say that's a significant possibility, Russ (and Prince). You may want to cross reference this with another thread where we discussed the recent anamolous increase in equatorial gravity and its possible origin as due to a shift in the matter in earth's interior.
See:
http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=1911&forum=2&24

There we were considering surface ocean currents building up in the equatorial regions, but there seemed to be no causal gravitatonal agent. Water beneath the surface may fit the bill; it certainly would be fluid enough to shift easily.
The amount appears indeterminable.

And, we do still see geysers - Prince.

G^2



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gsquare on 2002-08-12 22:37 ]</font>

Cloudy
2002-Aug-14, 09:09 AM
Keep in mind that the Hebrew for "water" may refer to more
than just H2O. It is almost certainly a broader term than that.

All a liquid has to do to potentially qualify is not to have a specific other word refering to it, like "yayin"(wine). Magma may be a bit of stretch, though.

Also, it probably refers to just the liquid form of the stuff. Remember even the Greeks thought that a different state of matter = a different substance (Fire, air, water or earth). Ice or vapor would not be included. You got to think phenomenologically when you look at most of the Bible - think of how you taste, see and smell. And try to imagine what theological message the writer is trying to convey - what the text says about the relationship between God and Creation. Stay away from abstract scientific concepts.

beskeptical
2002-Aug-15, 09:18 AM
On 2002-08-12 18:31, Russ wrote:
I'd think that thered have to be a significan amount within the crust. Just one incident, the 1964 Alaskan Earthquake, ripped a gash in the sea floor that water poured into for about 45 minutes (I can't remember the exact statistic. Anybody?). It kept the Ankorage harbor a mud flat the whole time.

Anybody else heard of other incidents?



Say what???? A hole in the sea floor that water poured into? Sort of, but I think you have a tiny misconception here.

Uplift, subsidance, landslides, ground waves, etc., all produce forces that can result in tsunamis. If the seafloor subsides a considerable amount as the result of an earthquake, the water does rush in to fill the space. But the water is not pouring down the drain so to speak.

A tsunami results from the water's massive rapid movement when the seafloor moves. As the crest of a tidal wave approaches the shore it pulls the water in front of it up. The result is the tide goes waaay out before the big tsunami arrives. This is what resulted in Ancorage Harbor appearing to drain dry before the tsunami from the massive earthquake in 1964 hit.

Russ
2002-Aug-15, 11:10 PM
On 2002-08-15 05:18, beskeptical wrote:

Say what???? A hole in the sea floor that water poured into? Sort of, but I think you have a tiny misconception here.

I can't remember if it was the History Channel or Discovery but the show I saw had a movie taken of the event at the time of the event by someone with a handy "super 8" movie camera. Relatively poor quality but you could see what was happening. I am sure that if the movie is not faked, I have no misconception here. :/


Uplift, subsidance, landslides, ground waves, etc., all produce forces that can result in tsunamis. If the seafloor subsides a considerable amount as the result of an earthquake, the water does rush in to fill the space. But the water is not pouring down the drain so to speak.

Again, assuming the movie was not faked, the water was going down the cravase (drain)so to speak. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif


A tsunami results from the water's massive rapid movement when the seafloor moves. As the crest of a tidal wave approaches the shore it pulls the water in front of it up. The result is the tide goes waaay out before the big tsunami arrives. This is what resulted in Ancorage Harbor appearing to drain dry before the tsunami from the massive earthquake in 1964 hit.

I am aware of this phenomenon. It, to the best of my information, is not what was happening in the movie. There was discussion on the show I watched about the subsequint tsunami being worsened by this event. They even had a photo of a ship that had been set up on "dry land" by the tsunami. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

I will concede that there is a possibility that the information that was presented was not totally accurate or scientific, but I am sure of what I saw. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif If I see the show again I'll try to remember the name, time and channel, to report back to y'all.

PS - I like your moniker and the pun (Beskeptigal) you played on yourself. Both are very clever. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif Is there an emoticon for a guy whistling at a clever gal? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif
(edited to correct quoting)
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Lighten up! I'm here for the fun of it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Russ on 2002-08-15 19:12 ]</font>

overrated
2002-Aug-15, 11:27 PM
So... this isn't really against the mainstream, is it? We seem to all agree that there is lots of below-the-surface water.

Donnie B.
2002-Aug-15, 11:38 PM
Um... ever hear of something called a well? (Not to mention 'spring' or 'geyser'...)

Seriously, water is all over the surface of the Earth, and far down below the surface too. Virtually all crustal rocks include minerals that form only in the presence of water, and in many cases, rocks contain minute quantities of water trapped in their matrix.

The Earth's crust is somewhat plastic - a large mountain range like the Himalayas will slump over time, during and after its uplift phase. It has been demonstrated in the lab that much of this plasticity is due to water in the rock. Very, very dry rocks are much stiffer.

So, next time somebody talks about how hard it is to squeeze water from a stone, you can smile and say, "Hard, yes, but not impossible!"

Wiley
2002-Aug-15, 11:46 PM
On 2002-08-15 19:38, Donnie B. wrote:
So, next time somebody talks about how hard it is to squeeze water from a stone, you can smile and say, "Hard, yes, but not impossible!"


Yeah. They're a bunch of whiners, if you ask me.

/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Gsquare
2002-Aug-15, 11:51 PM
On 2002-08-15 19:38, Donnie B. wrote:

So, next time somebody talks about how hard it is to squeeze water from a stone, you can smile and say, "Hard, yes, but not impossible!"



Yes, if I remember correctly Moses didn't seem to have much of a problem doing it. Of course, he had God's help with it. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
(Exodus 17:6)

G^2


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gsquare on 2002-08-15 20:03 ]</font>

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2002-Aug-16, 01:38 AM
On 2002-08-15 19:10, Russ wrote:
Is there an emoticon for a guy whistling at a clever gal? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif


How about this one: :-0 j-j

Or this one: /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_redface.gif j-j

_________________
If you Ignore YOUR Rights, they Will go away.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ZaphodBeeblebrox on 2002-08-15 21:43 ]</font>

beskeptical
2002-Aug-16, 09:56 AM
On 2002-08-15 19:10, Russ wrote:


On 2002-08-15 05:18, beskeptical wrote:

Say what???? A hole in the sea floor that water poured into? Sort of, but I think you have a tiny misconception here.

I can't remember if it was the History Channel or Discovery but the show I saw had a movie taken of the event at the time of the event by someone with a handy "super 8" movie camera. Relatively poor quality but you could see what was happening. I am sure that if the movie is not faked, I have no misconception here. :/
.... the water was going down the cravase (drain)so to speak. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif
.... There was discussion on the show I watched about the subsequint tsunami being worsened by this event. They even had a photo of a ship that had been set up on "dry land" by the tsunami. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

I will concede that there is a possibility that the information that was presented was not totally accurate or scientific, but I am sure of what I saw. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif If I see the show again I'll try to remember the name, time and channel, to report back to y'all.

PS - I like your moniker and the pun (Beskeptigal) you played on yourself.

I can't take credit for Beskeptigal, it was a wonderful suggestion by someone trying to help when several folks thought I was a guy. And I'm not a savy enough chatter to know any emoticons for whistles but I'll take your request as a compliment.

I have a small book on the AK quake but it's in my not well sorted stacks of books. As soon as I find it I'll check out what you're describing. I think it's still going to turn out to be your run of the mill tsunami pulling the water out and up before it hits. Any crevasse that appeared on the eyewitness film may have just been related to the land subsiding. It sank a good 20 feet. Great cracks opened and closed in the land, but not some crack in the seafloor that held the volume of the bay water.

On the other hand, I will withhold my assessment of the event until I find more about what you are describing. I do not recall anything like it, so maybe I just haven't heard about it yet. I have read a lot about the AK quake. 9+ on the Richter scale and it lasted 4-5 minutes. Most quakes last less than 1 minute. Seattle has had similar quakes every 300 to 500 years and the last one was 350 years ago. So I have had a particular interest. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif

David Hall
2002-Aug-16, 11:05 AM
I remember seeing the Alaska quake footage too, and I also remember a crack opening up in the sea floor and water pouring into it. IIRC, it was pretty much parallel to the shore and not to far from it.

I did a google search and didn't find any mention of it though, so I can't really confirm it myself. I just have a memory of seeing the same thing.

Russ
2002-Aug-19, 04:12 PM
On 2002-08-16 05:56, beskeptical wrote:
I'm not a savy enough chatter to know any emoticons for whistles but I'll take your request as a compliment.

A compliment was intended.


I have a small book on the AK quake but it's in my not well sorted stacks of books.

Boy! I know how that goes!


As soon as I find it I'll check out what you're describing. I think it's still going to turn out to be your run of the mill tsunami pulling the water out and up before it hits. Any crevasse that appeared on the eyewitness film may have just been related to the land subsiding. It sank a good 20 feet. Great cracks opened and closed in the land, but not some crack in the seafloor that held the volume of the bay water.

Ankorage used to be on my regular travel route and I never bothered to look into the 64' quake. Anybody have an emoticon for kicking yourself? I remember most of the hotels and other business establishments had photos of quake damage, huge slabs of street broken into block long chunks 10 feet in the air, rail yards looking like a bowl of spagetti, the empty harbor, etc.

One time while I was there, I saw the outgoing rip tide. That was pretty impressive all by itself. Alaska is a land of extremes.


On the other hand, I will withhold my assessment of the event until I find more about what you are describing. I do not recall anything like it, so maybe I just haven't heard about it yet. I have read a lot about the AK quake. 9+ on the Richter scale and it lasted 4-5 minutes. Most quakes last less than 1 minute. Seattle has had similar quakes every 300 to 500 years and the last one was 350 years ago. So I have had a particular interest. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif

I am interested in what you find out. If you have pics, please post them. Being in Seattle you may be close to someone who was there.


(edit to correct quotes)
_________________
Lighten up! I'm here for the fun of it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Russ on 2002-08-19 12:15 ]</font>

beskeptical
2002-Aug-21, 02:34 AM
On 2002-08-19 12:12, Russ wrote:
A compliment was intended.


Why, thanyou.



I am interested in what you find out. If you have pics, please post them. Being in Seattle you may be close to someone who was there.

The following link has some interesting pics. I don't have any personal contacts. A quick yahoo search got thousands of hits with many being personal fotos and experiences.

http://www.iris.washington.edu/EandO/slidescans/alaska/slideshow/

I believe the confusion is coming from the underwater landslides that increased the tsunami destruction, rather than any bay water pouring down a crevasse. I found that information on other links as well.

Sorry guys, I'm right again. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif