PDA

View Full Version : NASA to try to launch Shuttle on Tuesday, July 26



The Bad Astronomer
2005-Jul-21, 12:06 AM
Well, the title says it all. There will be more news shortly.

Iris
2005-Jul-21, 12:11 AM
Let's just hope the weather will be good... And the instruments better be good too! Or else the next luck will be in september, I think??

mickal555
2005-Jul-21, 08:08 AM
*Crosses fingers*
*crosses toes*

Maksutov
2005-Jul-21, 08:35 AM
*Crosses fingers*
*crosses toes*
Is that called a "Southern Cross"?


Wishes for a good flight to Discovery and her crew. Here's hoping all the tank sensors are acceptably operational, and that the tank insulation, nozzle/aft joint, and all other improvements work OK. 8)

ToSeek
2005-Jul-21, 06:39 PM
NASA may have isolated shuttle glitch (http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7708)


NASA officials think they have found the source of the problem that delayed the launch of space shuttle Discovery, and if they can fix the glitch in time, they could launch on Tuesday, 26 July.
...
NASA is now looking at a slight electrical grounding problem within the fuel sensor system that could allow it to be affected by electromagnetic interference during the launch countdown. On Wednesday night, engineers and technicians tried to replicate the electromagnetic environment during the launch countdown. They will not truly know whether they have fixed the problem until the external tank is loaded with cryogenic fuel and all of the electrical systems are activated.

Sticks
2005-Jul-21, 09:38 PM
What are the odds that something else ("minor") will add yet another delay

Remember my little conspiracy theory about return to flight :P

Launch window
2005-Jul-22, 08:25 AM
Nasa engineers have still not fixed the troublesome fuel sensor that stopped an earlier launch attempt but feel they are now getting on top of the issue. Engineers are wrapping up a troubleshooting plan to address a fuel sensor system issue and there are at least four opportunities for Discovery to launch during the current launch window to the stations orbits, which extends until 31 July but if they don't launch July they'll have to wait until September for a window. Shuttle delay worries ISS partners Japan, one of 16 nations involved, has spent more than $3-billion on space station vehicles and modules including a laboratory named Kibo - Japanese for "hope" and Kibo now sits - along with Europe's Columbus module, a connecting node, station trusses, solar arrays, and a sparkling seven-sided cupola window . If NASA can't launch before July 31, the next possibilities are in September. Storm coming with bad weather ?
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/storm_graphics/AT06/refresh/AL0605W5_sm2+gif/031313W_sm.gif

jt-3d
2005-Jul-22, 08:40 AM
Well, at least I'll be off then.

Wolverine
2005-Jul-24, 04:21 AM
The latest I've seen, here (http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts114/050723count/). Nicely detailed article.

Sticks
2005-Jul-26, 07:57 AM
I here that if one of the sensors has deferred Success, then NASA will still launch any hue See this report (http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13394793,00.html)

Is this not playing fast and loose with the lives of the astronauts. They went to four of four for a reason

From Spaceflight Now (http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts114/050723count/)


But after Challenger, engineers discovered a single-point failure mode in an electronics black box upstream of the point sensor box that could take out two fuel sensors at once. That failure mode was corrected several years ago, but the four-of-four LCC was never changed back to three of four.


It seems like shades of Challenger - Political pressure to fly a craft, which still has technical issues. I hope not.

My predictions are that this bird won't fly today and at Bakers Oven the soup will be Cream of Tomato

Van Rijn
2005-Jul-26, 08:14 AM
With a system this complex, you can only be so safe. They probably can't make it much safer than it is already. They believe they understand the problem, they have redundancy, and are watching it closely. If it doesn't do what they think it will, they will scrub. At some point, they have to call it, or they'll never get off the ground.

Jens
2005-Jul-26, 08:37 AM
Actually, I'm always amazed that there are people who would consent to being strapped into that thing and sent hurtling into space on top of what is pretty much a big firecracker. And what amazes me more is that they all go into the cabin with waving and smiling at the cameras. I would be shaking and no doubt pale and nauseous from nervousness. But I guess there are acrobatic pilots in this world too. I don't know if it's an ability to forget about the danger, or if it's kind of liking the danger in a way.

Van Rijn
2005-Jul-26, 08:56 AM
For some, it is just something you want very badly. I'm not normally a risk taker. I don't understand mountain climbing, skydiving, etc. "just for fun." On the other hand, I've wanted to go into space for as long as I can remember. If I was offered a ride on the Space Shuttle, I'd grab it in a nanosecond. Would I be scared? Sure. But for something this big, I'd be willing to take the risk and I would be just as thrilled as the astronauts. I know I'm far from the only one that feels that way.

kucharek
2005-Jul-26, 08:57 AM
Countdown runs smoothly

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts114/status.html

Sticks
2005-Jul-26, 12:19 PM
My predictions are that this bird won't fly today and at Bakers Oven the soup will be Cream of Tomato

It looks like one of my predictions was spot on


http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/320/tomatosoup0023dn.th.jpg (http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tomatosoup0023dn.jpg)

It was Cream of Tomato Soup today at Bakers Oven.

So what does that say about my other prediction... 8-[

kucharek
2005-Jul-26, 01:01 PM
Hatch is closed.

Iris
2005-Jul-26, 01:41 PM
WAtching it on NASA TV right now... Doesn't seem to be much troubles so far? one hour left I think.

When did they stop the launch last time? How much time was left?

mickal555
2005-Jul-26, 01:43 PM
There's a paltalk room open if anyone doesn't know.

Jorge
2005-Jul-26, 01:54 PM
WAtching it on NASA TV right now... Doesn't seem to be much troubles so far? one hour left I think.

When did they stop the launch last time? How much time was left?

last time i think it was jsut after or before the last crew member got strapped in

pumpkinpie
2005-Jul-26, 01:59 PM
WAtching it on NASA TV right now... Doesn't seem to be much troubles so far? one hour left I think.

When did they stop the launch last time? How much time was left?

last time i think it was jsut after or before the last crew member got strapped in

It was about 2-1/2 hours before launch they haulted it last time. They have already passed that time mark, and the fuel sensor "passed its test."

Melusine
2005-Jul-26, 02:01 PM
WAtching it on NASA TV right now... Doesn't seem to be much troubles so far? one hour left I think.

When did they stop the launch last time? How much time was left?

last time i think it was jsut after or before the last crew member got strapped in
It was a little over 2 hours before launch time. I know, I was there. :(
I just got a call from the British guy I met there, from the viewing site (some British woman got my ticket), and he says the weather, the view, everything looks great. At least I get to hear it by cell phone and TV.

I hope all goes well. :D

Argos
2005-Jul-26, 02:19 PM
This site (http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050710/NEWS02/50712012/1007/news02) seems to be updating faster than Spaceflight Now.

Iris
2005-Jul-26, 02:19 PM
Well... It seems to go well. :P
Hey... Did they ever cancel a launch very close to the liftoff???

Sticks
2005-Jul-26, 02:23 PM
Well... It seems to go well. :P
Hey... Did they ever cancel a launch very close to the liftoff???

I remember there was one launch that was cancelled just as the engines started to run.

All of a sudden the engines cut out, very dramatic, but I do not know which shuttle that was.

ElWampa
2005-Jul-26, 02:29 PM
Ten minutes! =D>

Captain Kidd
2005-Jul-26, 02:31 PM
Go/no was done. You know it's a bureaucracy when there's a countdown to restart the countdown. :D

[edit to fix a mid-sentence change of thought.]

Rich
2005-Jul-26, 02:32 PM
Ten minutes! =D>

=D>

I love working in a media intensive environment. There are other perks to viewing a launch here too... hehehe. ;)

Tensor
2005-Jul-26, 02:33 PM
Stepping outside now to watch it (takes about a minute to get high enought to see from here).

George
2005-Jul-26, 02:37 PM
For those needing quick video linking...


Video feeds....
MSN video (http://video.msn.com/video/p.htm?t=1&p=News_Other&i=e2ab43a7-2a6c-4ba9-a9c2-6dbfe7b95b7f&rf=)

and

NASA / Yahoo (http://playlist.yahoo.com/makeplaylist.dll?sg_id=49573&id=1369081&segment=14 9773&s=&authid=&RegID=45498667078039580)

Iris
2005-Jul-26, 02:40 PM
Liftoff! Woohooo! :D

redmadman3000
2005-Jul-26, 02:43 PM
this was the first shuttle launch i ever got to watch, hope i get to see one in person someday...

Hazzard
2005-Jul-26, 02:44 PM
Safe flight , please! =D>

Rich
2005-Jul-26, 02:44 PM
Woohoo!

Stardate
2005-Jul-26, 02:47 PM
Nice.

2005-Jul-26, 02:48 PM
Ten minutes! =D>

MECO

Rich
2005-Jul-26, 02:48 PM
The main tank release should be a really cool thing to see. Didn't realize we wouldget that treat..... Oh awesome! Watching it now!!!

Jorge
2005-Jul-26, 02:48 PM
pitty about the quallity of NASA TV :(

but all seems to be well sofar

Tensor
2005-Jul-26, 02:48 PM
Caught it through the clouds as it went. Wonderful to see it flying again.

redmadman3000
2005-Jul-26, 02:49 PM
man! i was hoping they'd leave the camera on the main tank on so we would get to see it planet fall...

mickal555
2005-Jul-26, 02:52 PM
this was the first shuttle launch i ever got to watch, hope i get to see one in person someday...

Ditto :D :D

Rich
2005-Jul-26, 02:52 PM
BTW - Bad Astronomy friend Jim Oberg (http://www.jamesoberg.com/profile.html) has been on MSNBC a few times during the events this morning. Good to see him up there!

BBabu
2005-Jul-26, 02:52 PM
We were lucky enough to watch this on HDNet at the office this morning.

Camera on the external tank caught the separation of the shuttle - incredible images.

Way to go Discovery! :D

2005-Jul-26, 02:53 PM
Caught it through the clouds as it went. Wonderful to see it flying again.

It was clear but hazy here ... we watch from when it cleared the horizon until booster shutdown.

Wolverine
2005-Jul-26, 02:54 PM
Great launch. =D>

Metricyard
2005-Jul-26, 02:56 PM
Ahhhh!!!

Yahoo lost link 40 seconds before launch. By the time I got Real Player going, the shuttle was airborn. :evil: :evil:

I hate you Yahoo.. :evil:

Wolverine
2005-Jul-26, 02:56 PM
My predictions are that this bird won't fly today and at Bakers Oven the soup will be Cream of Tomato

Let us know if the soup prediction pans out.

Jorge
2005-Jul-26, 02:57 PM
yahoo server got over run i think :)

George
2005-Jul-26, 02:57 PM
=D> =D> . Great launch.

I liked Noguchi's "OUT TO LAUNCH". :)

Hazzard
2005-Jul-26, 02:58 PM
I just love this :D

Melusine
2005-Jul-26, 03:00 PM
That was cool watching the external tank separate. Yeah Discovery!!

My friend who called me from the viewing site was so funny--hearing all the comments in the background, "Oh baby! It's like July 4th, go, go! Oh, baby!..." Pretty amusing. I could relay info from the TV...so glad it got off well. He's been trying to watch a shuttle launch for 3 years, which is hard to schedule from England. :D

How exciting for the two crew members who have never been on a shuttle before. Did you see the picture with Soichi Noguchi and his Monopoly "Get out of Quarantine card?"

=D> =D> =D> to all involved with the launch.

mickal555
2005-Jul-26, 03:00 PM
there's a replay soon


Wow That was amazing! :D :D

ElWampa
2005-Jul-26, 03:06 PM
:o

Awesome launch! I'm kicking myself now because I didn't capture video of it! Especially the external tank separation. WOW! Just wow! I've never seen such beauty from gases in high resolution, smooth video.

:D

WHarris
2005-Jul-26, 03:08 PM
Well... It seems to go well. :P
Hey... Did they ever cancel a launch very close to the liftoff???

I remember there was one launch that was cancelled just as the engines started to run.

All of a sudden the engines cut out, very dramatic, but I do not know which shuttle that was.

That happened on a couple of shuttle missions. One was STS-41-D (Discovery) in 1984. Another was STS-51-F (Challenger) in 1985. I don't recall if there were any other launch pad aborts.

kucharek
2005-Jul-26, 03:10 PM
Well... It seems to go well. :P
Hey... Did they ever cancel a launch very close to the liftoff???

I remember there was one launch that was cancelled just as the engines started to run.

All of a sudden the engines cut out, very dramatic, but I do not know which shuttle that was.

That was the pad abort of STS-41-D. Mission specialist Steve Hawley quipped: "Gee, I thought we'd be a lot higher at MECO!"

(MECO = Main Engine Cut-Off)

kucharek
2005-Jul-26, 03:12 PM
NASA tv is now replaying the launch views of many different cameras. Now the ET camera... Hope they show SB sep now.

Glom
2005-Jul-26, 03:15 PM
Hi. I'm new here. :D

I watched the coverage of BBC NEWS 24 (yes, I'm a masochist). The ET camera was cool.

Apparently the dodgy fuel sensor was a third backup. NASA decided that it was okay to carry on with only three out of four fuel sensors working. It makes sense, BA feels the same way about the engines on their 747s.

Tensor
2005-Jul-26, 03:18 PM
Hi. I'm new here. :D



Well, it has been a few weeks since your last post. :lol:

Metricyard
2005-Jul-26, 03:19 PM
I don't know why, but I always enjoyed watching the SRB's drop off.
And now we get tot see the external tank drop off too. Are we any easy group to please or what? :lol:

R.A.F.
2005-Jul-26, 03:19 PM
Please forgive the quality of the picture, (I snapped it off the TV), but for those who didn't see it, here's (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/raflaf/100_3574.jpg) what external tank separation looked like...


...and you'll notice that there are no "crawls" at the bottom of the screen unlike Fox and CNN. :wink:

edited to make a link instead of an image. :)

Captain Kidd
2005-Jul-26, 03:25 PM
OK that was cool, External Tank camera replay from slightly after launch to seperation.

Cugel
2005-Jul-26, 03:59 PM
On spaceflightnow.com they have pictures of a large piece of debris falling of the ET, just missing the orbiter. Scary.

Glom
2005-Jul-26, 04:05 PM
On spaceflightnow.com they have pictures of a large piece of debris falling of the ET, just missing the orbiter. Scary.

There didn't see anything out of the ordinary in the preliminary review of the launch footage according to the news briefing.

Graham2001
2005-Jul-26, 04:05 PM
Watched the launch on Channel Seven. It finished about an hour ago.

All I can say is:

Fly Bird =D> =D> =D> =D>

Sticks
2005-Jul-26, 04:07 PM
My predictions are that this bird won't fly today and at Bakers Oven the soup will be Cream of Tomato

Let us know if the soup prediction pans out.

I did (If you look back at previous posts

It looks like one of my predictions was spot on


http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/320/tomatosoup0023dn.th.jpg (http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tomatosoup0023dn.jpg)

It was Cream of Tomato Soup today at Bakers Oven.

So what does that say about my other prediction... 8-[

ToSeek
2005-Jul-26, 04:29 PM
Well... It seems to go well. :P
Hey... Did they ever cancel a launch very close to the liftoff???

The one I went to had its count stopped at T-31 seconds. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

amstrad
2005-Jul-26, 04:49 PM
A quote from a space.com article (http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/050726_sts114_launchsuccess.html):


Discovery launched right on time at 10:39:00 a.m. EDT (1439 GMT), rising above Launch Pad 39B here at KSC. Eight minutes and 29 seconds later, Collins and her crew reached orbit.

It was my understanding that you reach orbit after the orbital circularization burn at about T+38:00. Without that OMS-2 burn, I don't think you can call the vehicle "in orbit".

Its like saying that Apollo reaches the moon at the end of the TLI burn.

WHarris
2005-Jul-26, 05:30 PM
No, it's an orbit. The OMS burn just circularizes it.

pghnative
2005-Jul-26, 05:46 PM
Well... It seems to go well. :P
Hey... Did they ever cancel a launch very close to the liftoff???

The one I went to had its count stopped at T-31 seconds.
According to the STS114 Press Kit (http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/112301main_114_pk_july05.pdf), Endeavour's first launch attempt was aborted 1.9 seconds before liftoff. Talk about, ahem "countdown interruptus"



On spaceflightnow.com they have pictures of a large piece of debris falling of the ET, just missing the orbiter. Scary.
There didn't see anything out of the ordinary in the preliminary review of the launch footage according to the news briefing.
Are you saying that the debris wasn't that large or dangerous? Or that (apparantly large) debris isn't out of the ordinary?

Nicolas
2005-Jul-26, 06:13 PM
It's probably just my holidays head, but I have the following question:

How come the main tank falls back while the orbiters stays in orbit (or continues to orbit), if no further engines (except for steering rockets) burn on the orbiter? Or do the 3 main engines continue to burn on a fuel reserve inside the orbiter after main tank separation?

I feel lost here :).


The debris didn't seem large to me (and it was a special camera lense), and it didn't seem to hit anything. Some debris is normal. The effort was in elimintaing dangerous (place and/or size) debris.

Doodler
2005-Jul-26, 07:08 PM
It's probably just my holidays head, but I have the following question:

How come the main tank falls back while the orbiters stays in orbit (or continues to orbit), if no further engines (except for steering rockets) burn on the orbiter? Or do the 3 main engines continue to burn on a fuel reserve inside the orbiter after main tank separation?

I feel lost here :).


The debris didn't seem large to me (and it was a special camera lense), and it didn't seem to hit anything. Some debris is normal. The effort was in elimintaing dangerous (place and/or size) debris.

Nope, once the tank is ejected, the three main engines are dead weight.


Maybe its been way too long since I've seen a launch, but the burn plume from the SRBs looked very red to me, they always seemed more orange in the past, or is that just video artifact?

Jorge
2005-Jul-26, 07:21 PM
they same yellowish-orange-white, till a few seconds before seperation they seem to turn red-orange. #-o that cn't be right can it?

Grey
2005-Jul-26, 07:43 PM
How come the main tank falls back while the orbiters stays in orbit (or continues to orbit), if no further engines (except for steering rockets) burn on the orbiter? Or do the 3 main engines continue to burn on a fuel reserve inside the orbiter after main tank separation?
There was a bit of discussion about that here (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=22684).

Nicolas
2005-Jul-26, 07:52 PM
Thanks. So an extra fuel/engine system on the shuttle to push it the final tiny bit is the answer. The tank almost reaches orbit. that makes sense to me. And I'm glad I didn't overlook something very straightforward :).

publiusr
2005-Jul-26, 08:19 PM
The shuttle--like the original balloon-tank Atlas--is a stage-and-a-half vehicle. It could take that ET to orbit if it wanted to:
www.spaceislandgroup.com

Just as SCORE was the whole Atlas rocket minus the thrust ring. That was also to have been a "Convair Atlas station."

Skylab was to have been a wet-stage Saturn IB launch--before becoming a completed dry stage Saturn V payload--if memory serves.

Jorge
2005-Jul-26, 09:43 PM
Just watching nasa TV, they seem to think a small piece of tile is missing around the clam-shell that open to deploy the front landing gear.

sarongsong
2005-Jul-26, 09:44 PM
On spaceflightnow.com they have pictures of a large piece of debris falling of the ET, just missing the orbiter. Scary.July 26 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050726/ap_on_sc/space_shuttle_44)
"...Video showed what appeared to be a large piece of debris flying off the external fuel tank two minutes into the flight. The object did not seem to hit the orbiter. Footage also showed what might have been at least two light-colored objects flying off Discovery as the shuttle cleared the launch pad..."
http://drudgereport.com/debris.jpg

JustAGuy
2005-Jul-26, 10:43 PM
Thanks. So an extra fuel/engine system on the shuttle to push it the final tiny bit is the answer. The tank almost reaches orbit. that makes sense to me. And I'm glad I didn't overlook something very straightforward :).

In addition to doing the work of actually getting the shuttle into a stable orbit, the OMS also allow it to change its orbit to match the stations, and performs the deorbit burn.

Of note, the OMS is hypergolic so it doesn't use the same fuel as the mains (SSMEs).

jt-3d
2005-Jul-27, 12:03 AM
Day one highlights playing now. Yea, now I get to see it. (http://playlist.yahoo.com/makeplaylist.dll?sg_id=49573&id=1369081&segment=14 9773&s=&authid=&RegID=45498667078039580)

Graham2001
2005-Jul-27, 12:59 AM
Just watching nasa TV, they seem to think a small piece of tile is missing around the clam-shell that open to deploy the front landing gear.

When I was watching the take off, especially the footage from the tank camera I could see a 'red patch' that looked like missing tiles fairly close to the cameras.

Has there been any confirmation on what that was?

The footage of the breakaway though was impressive, that has got to join the list of 'iconic' space footage.

Robert Andersson
2005-Jul-27, 02:25 PM
I'm getting very annoyed by some news reporting about this. One swedish national paper, Aftonbladet (http://www.aftonbladet.se/), has head-lines like this:
* "They are looking for the damage - in space"
* "Discovery's hull is going to examined [...] - the crew may have to stay on ISS"
* "NASA fears new tragady - Discovery may have similar damages as Columbia"
* "Catastrophy threatens Discovery - parts of the rocket fell off during launch"

In an article about the survey of the wings etc, they insinuate that it is a consequence of the launch; to locate the damage that (apparently) did occure during launch. They also complain that if the damage is big, they may not be able to repair it because it has never been tested previously :roll: . They also note that NASA is investigating if the bird incident occured and if it will doom the mission. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Jorge
2005-Jul-27, 04:41 PM
as far as we know damage like this is normal for every shuttle flight, only very heavy damage on specific spots maybe a a crew killer, and Columbia just got unlucky...

Nicolas
2005-Jul-27, 05:21 PM
Orbiter tiles may even fall off without being hit by anything, so even if tiles are missing this does not necessarily mean a debris problem (except for the tile itself that falls off, of course! :)).

Launch window
2005-Jul-27, 07:50 PM
You can inspect some of the Shuttle here and on this link
Shuttle - looking at outside (http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/sc/010605shuttlenasa/im:/050727/photos_sc_afp/050727192655_bcqbwap9_photo3;_ylt=As82Nz92stjS4M.L OVp3m9JsaMYA;_ylu=X3oDMTA5bGcyMWMzBHNlYwNzc25hdg--)
http://www.ljplus.ru/img2/p/l/plesetsk/chan2large_050727_2007.jpg
NASA had the press conference and a BBC reporter was asking the NASA guys some question - saying that last night it seemed the chipped tile was a significant issue and accused NASA of trying to play this incident down.
http://www.ljplus.ru/img2/p/l/plesetsk/chan2large_050727_2026.jpg
One thing noted by the crew, they would not feel comfortable flying a repaired orbiter it is said his was based on the state of TPS repair capability at the time and reporters asked if NASA made a decision to repair this damaged tile or was it way too premature to talk about repairs ?

publiusr
2005-Jul-27, 08:49 PM
as far as we know damage like this is normal for every shuttle flight, only very heavy damage on specific spots maybe a a crew killer, and Columbia just got unlucky...

Well said.

Jorge
2005-Jul-27, 09:06 PM
as far as we know damage like this is normal for every shuttle flight, only very heavy damage on specific spots maybe a a crew killer, and Columbia just got unlucky...

Well said.

thanx, most poeple don't agree with me here, they keep blaming it on the foam.

Just a silly question, they said it was foam that damaged columbia's wing...
Foam doesn't sound heavy to me, foam sounds a light thingy with lots of air in it. how heavy would a piece of foam 25x25cm weight?

publiusr
2005-Jul-27, 09:15 PM
The idea is that the airflow and the high relative velocity between the ramp-foam and the wing allowed an impact--slammed some foam(ice-filled maybe) into the wing-leading edge. Hubbard had a gas-gun fire some foam at a piece of RCC and a hole was made--but all that proved to me is that if you fire one object at another hard enough--anything breaks.

All we know is that Columbia suffered a break where a piece of rather crumbly foam just so happened to hit. That same section might have also been struck by a meteor or something else.

The point is that this ET was about as clean as can be--even after delays. Others will be even cleaner provided they don't detank and cryopump the foam as much. The bipod has been redesigned. Columbia's loss was a freak.

Jorge
2005-Jul-27, 10:43 PM
The idea is that the airflow and the high relative velocity between the ramp-foam and the wing allowed an impact--slammed some foam(ice-filled maybe) into the wing-leading edge. Hubbard had a gas-gun fire some foam at a piece of RCC and a hole was made--but all that proved to me is that if you fire one object at another hard enough--anything breaks.

All we know is that Columbia suffered a break where a piece of rather crumbly foam just so happened to hit. That same section might have also been struck by a meteor or something else.

The point is that this ET was about as clean as can be--even after delays. Others will be even cleaner provided they don't detank and cryopump the foam as much. The bipod has been redesigned. Columbia's loss was a freak.

I never got phisics or anything i school but

if you have and object that moves at lets say 50 km/h, and it breaks in two, won't the two piece still be moving around 50 km/h?

Since the foam is was moving as fast when it broke of as the ET+Shuttle+whatnot it couldn't have hit a hight speeds, if it did, what accelerated it? or am i complelty wrong here?

jt-3d
2005-Jul-27, 10:55 PM
I heard that in the NASA briefing. I think it actually slows down, due to air resistance, and the shuttle runs into it.

johnwitts
2005-Jul-27, 11:34 PM
Couldn't all this foam, piping and wiring that causes so much trouble be put inside the tank instead of on the outside?
Or at least run the piping and stuff through the tank.
Or run it down the outside of the tank, but at the front so it doesn't matter if the foam falls off.
Or, just cover the tank in TPS tiles, like the orbiter (hey, it stops things getting hot, why not get it to stop things getting cold?)
Or, don't put any foam on at all and let the ice fall off like it did on the Saturns when they were still going slowly.
Or, remove the foam and pour antifreeze over the tank till launch time.
Or, use a double skin on the tank and use a thinner layer of foam to add structural strength as well as insulation.

Launch window
2005-Jul-28, 07:23 AM
Initial analysis of the imagery shows a large piece of foam that separated from the tank during the Shuttle's ascent to orbit.
http://www.nasa.gov/returntoflight/multimedia/external_tank_images.html
The foam detached from an area of the tank called the Protuberance Air Load (PAL) Ramp. This debris also was identified during ascent from a live video camera mounted on the external tank.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8720825/
“Call it luck or whatever, it didn’t harm the orbiter,” said shuttle program manager Bill Parsons. If the foam had broken away earlier in flight — when the atmosphere is thicker, increasing the acceleration and likelihood of impact — it could have caused catastrophic damage to Discovery.

kucharek
2005-Jul-28, 10:40 AM
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html

At the moment, the Shuttle is going to dock with the ISS. Should be finished in half an hour. Already aligned.

Roy Batty
2005-Jul-28, 11:18 AM
Perfect docking achieved & at eta as well !
What is that rubbish they say about women drivers? :D 8)

KHarvey16
2005-Jul-28, 11:49 AM
The idea is that the airflow and the high relative velocity between the ramp-foam and the wing allowed an impact--slammed some foam(ice-filled maybe) into the wing-leading edge. Hubbard had a gas-gun fire some foam at a piece of RCC and a hole was made--but all that proved to me is that if you fire one object at another hard enough--anything breaks.

All we know is that Columbia suffered a break where a piece of rather crumbly foam just so happened to hit. That same section might have also been struck by a meteor or something else.

The point is that this ET was about as clean as can be--even after delays. Others will be even cleaner provided they don't detank and cryopump the foam as much. The bipod has been redesigned. Columbia's loss was a freak.

I never got phisics or anything i school but

if you have and object that moves at lets say 50 km/h, and it breaks in two, won't the two piece still be moving around 50 km/h?

Since the foam is was moving as fast when it broke of as the ET+Shuttle+whatnot it couldn't have hit a hight speeds, if it did, what accelerated it? or am i complelty wrong here?

Imagine tossing something small out a car window as you're moving. This object will have relatively small momentum and any forward velocity it has is quickly overcome by air resistance. The object will accelerate in the opposite direction in a short amount of time. When you realize the shuttle was moving at over 1,500 mph, it becomes easier to imagine how a relatively small chunk of foam could accelerate to over 500 mph and cause damage to the orbiter.

publiusr
2005-Jul-28, 05:11 PM
This PAL ramp didn't feel as much air resistance being well above the Earth. It is thought that the motors that allow SRB sep. blew the chunk off.

More here:
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts114/050726images/
My reaction:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Buran-modeling/message/180

formulaterp
2005-Jul-28, 05:27 PM
Perfect docking achieved & at eta as well !
What is that rubbish they say about women drivers? :D 8)

Well apparently they had a difficult time finding the ISS. Collins called up Houston and got directions to the station. Of course if I was the CDR I'd have gunned the OMS engines and completed a half dozen really, really fast orbits until I spotted something that looked familiar.

kucharek
2005-Jul-29, 10:05 AM
Cool picture
http://www.nasa.gov/returntoflight/multimedia/misson_status_briefing_0728.html

Launch window
2005-Jul-29, 10:34 AM
Just watching nasa TV, they seem to think a small piece of tile is missing around the clam-shell that open to deploy the front landing gear.

there are good photos on yahoo

it seems to be ok (http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/sc/010605shuttlenasa/im:/050728/ids_photos_ts/r3379337489.jpg;_ylt=AhHQUQroTwKd1Clawh1AzVHmWMcF; _ylu=X3oDMTA5bGcyMWMzBHNlYwNzc25hdg--)

kucharek
2005-Aug-08, 07:18 AM
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/shuttle/sts-114/html/s114e6642.html