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dgruss23
2005-Aug-08, 08:49 PM
Interesting! (http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050801/full/050801-10.html)

Taks
2005-Aug-08, 09:11 PM
gee, a plausible explanation for the bermuda triangle disappearances. who would have thought it possible? i mean, c'mon, real science applied to the most heavily travelled section of the atlantic. never. never! :)

i would not be surprised. there's a big wave discussion in one of the BA's movie reviews, btw. he and i actually traded a few emails on the subject as well. the science of waves in the ocean is really not that well understood (too many interactions) IMO. however, surface waves caused by wind typically aren't that well organized, and end up with mostly destructive interactions, resulting in smaller waves at the shoreline. however, out in the ocean, these waves can be all over the map so large peaks and troughs are possible.

hurricanes, however, consist of a nifty low pressure center which bulges the ocean (through to the floor). generally speaking, when these waves reach a shoreline, they are very regular and quite large by the time they are breaking over. i suppose if the winds of the hurricane were creating large peaks as well, you'd end up with a real monster at sea.

darn i miss surfing. well, i miss skiing too, but that will happen in 3 months so i'm not too worried! :0

taks

jaeger
2005-Aug-08, 09:21 PM
Doesn't even have to be in the ocean. One of the theories of the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald in Lake Superior on November 10, 1975 is that it crashed into a 40-foot wave and went straight to the bottom.

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/mqt/fitzgerald/fitzc.htm

Sam5
2005-Aug-08, 10:52 PM
There was a series of news stories a couple of months ago about a giant wave that hit a cruise ship just recently. It broke windows, upset furniture. There were some other big waves but one was a super big one. I think it was off the Southeast coast of Florida.

George
2005-Aug-08, 10:54 PM
A few years back was a tv story regarding "killer waves" (http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/freakwave.shtml).


Al's work - if correct - suggests that there are two kinds of waves out on the high seas; the classical undulating type described by the linear model and an unstable non-linear monster - a wave that at any time can start sucking up energy from waves around it to become a towering freak. Schrodinger strikes again.

IIRC, they started looking with satelites and found them.

I assumed we would hear more of them as soon as surfers heard of them because they travel long distances and maintain a steep, surfable profile. However, this hasn't happened apparently, therefore something is amiss.

Eoanthropus Dawsoni
2005-Aug-08, 11:07 PM
One of the Iowa Class battleships lost it's entire bow section to a large Pacific wave while it was enroute home following the end of WW2.

Eoanthropus Dawsoni
2005-Aug-08, 11:12 PM
Doesn't even have to be in the ocean. One of the theories of the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald in Lake Superior on November 10, 1975 is that it crashed into a 40-foot wave and went straight to the bottom.

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/mqt/fitzgerald/fitzc.htm

White Hurricane is an interesting book about a series of sinkings during one storm on the Great Lakes. The author believes that most of the ships were lost due to unusually large waves.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/007138037X/103-4129047-1948666

Eta C
2005-Aug-09, 12:56 PM
One of the Iowa Class battleships lost it's entire bow section to a large Pacific wave while it was enroute home following the end of WW2.

Perhaps another ship. None of the BB-61 class ships (Iowa, New Jersey, Missouri, Wisconsin) suffered such damage. You may be confusing the ship losses to a typhoon in mid 1945 with another incident. In 1956 Wisconsin rammed the destroyer escort Eaton and lost a large chunk of her bow. To repair it, the Navy cut off the damaged section and replaced it with the bow from Wisconsin's never-completed sister ship, Kentucky.

For photos of the damage, check out the Navsource page (http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/64d.htm) for Wisconsin. You'll also find photos of the other Iowa-class ships there along with links to their entries in the Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships (DANFS). These are summaries of the ships' operating careers. Any such damage as losing the bow to a freak wave would be mentioned there.

Edit to add: Another possibility was the collision between USS Washington (BB-56) and USS Indiana (BB-58 ) in February 1944. This demolished Washington's bow. The damaged section was cut off and the ship sailed to the US to have it rebuilt.

As to freak waves, they are real, if rare.

captain swoop
2005-Aug-09, 01:58 PM
In WW1 2 Tribal Class destroyers were made into 1 HMS Zulu and HMS Nubian, 1 had damage towards the stern the other towards the bow, the result was named HMS Zubian

teddyv
2005-Aug-09, 02:23 PM
There was a series of news stories a couple of months ago about a giant wave that hit a cruise ship just recently. It broke windows, upset furniture. There were some other big waves but one was a super big one. I think it was off the Southeast coast of Florida.

Before this by a few months, another ship off the north coast of British Columbia was also hit by a rogie wave and suffered similar damage.

Eoanthropus Dawsoni
2005-Aug-09, 03:06 PM
One of the Iowa Class battleships lost it's entire bow section to a large Pacific wave while it was enroute home following the end of WW2.

Perhaps another ship. None of the BB-61 class ships (Iowa, New Jersey, Missouri, Wisconsin) suffered such damage. You may be confusing the ship losses to a typhoon in mid 1945 with another incident. In 1956 Wisconsin rammed the destroyer escort Eaton and lost a large chunk of her bow. To repair it, the Navy cut off the damaged section and replaced it with the bow from Wisconsin's never-completed sister ship, Kentucky.



That could very well be. It has been at least 30 years since I had read of this, so my memory could be playing tricks on me.

Trebuchet
2005-Aug-09, 11:20 PM
One of the Iowa Class battleships lost it's entire bow section to a large Pacific wave while it was enroute home following the end of WW2.

Perhaps another ship. None of the BB-61 class ships (Iowa, New Jersey, Missouri, Wisconsin) suffered such damage. You may be confusing the ship losses to a typhoon in mid 1945 with another incident. In 1956 Wisconsin rammed the destroyer escort Eaton and lost a large chunk of her bow. To repair it, the Navy cut off the damaged section and replaced it with the bow from Wisconsin's never-completed sister ship, Kentucky.



That could very well be. It has been at least 30 years since I had read of this, so my memory could be playing tricks on me.

I just spent my whole lunch looking for this and came up with the same result.
The story of the Washington bow replacement is pretty amazing. By the time the ship got back to its namsake state, they had a new bow built and ready to weld on. Some fantastic stuff got accomplished during WWII.

Sam5
2005-Aug-10, 12:10 AM
There was a series of news stories a couple of months ago about a giant wave that hit a cruise ship just recently. It broke windows, upset furniture. There were some other big waves but one was a super big one. I think it was off the Southeast coast of Florida.

Before this by a few months, another ship off the north coast of British Columbia was also hit by a rogie wave and suffered similar damage.

Interesting, thanks.

publiusr
2005-Aug-10, 05:55 PM
Sailors have known about Rogue waves for years. Some mathematicians had overlooked 'spikes' as mere artifacts. The 'fitz was probably pitch-poled--she fell in the 'hole-in-the ocean' type trough and the wave broke upon her, and shoved her to the lake bottom in one go.

Something for the space elevator people to think about when wanting mobile Sea launch type oil derricks.

Eoanthropus Dawsoni
2005-Aug-10, 08:30 PM
In White Hurricane the author spends some time describing how the difference in density between salt water and fresh water results in fresh water waves being somewhat nastier than a wave of similar height in sea water. Apparently the fresh water waves have a higher frequency. Adding to the problem for ships on the Great Lakes is the reflected waves moving around within the closed basins. It was quite interesting.

publiusr
2005-Aug-10, 09:27 PM
They can have some interesting seiche waves.