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JHotz
2005-Aug-16, 11:21 PM
How would an octopus do in free fall environs of a spaceship? The octopus has lots of arms but the can only pull not push. The octopus has suckers on its tentacles that could grip a smooth flat surface. The octopus is jet propelled. The octopus can communicate by changing colors. The octopus can squeeze through a space no bigger than its beak.

Argos
2005-Aug-16, 11:36 PM
How would an octopus do in free fall environs of a spaceship?

Suffocate, probably. :)

GDwarf
2005-Aug-16, 11:48 PM
How would an octopus do in free fall environs of a spaceship?

Suffocate, probably. :)
Eh, they can hold their breath for 5 or so minutes I beleive, so if it was a really fast launch/orbit/landing... :lol:

JHotz
2005-Aug-17, 01:47 AM
How would an octopus do in free fall environs of a spaceship?

Suffocate, probably. :)

Reread I said freefall evirons of a spaceship.

Squink
2005-Aug-17, 02:48 AM
Reread I said freefall evirons of a spaceship.In water in the freefall environs of a spaceship? I expect your octopus would hardly notice, except for a curious lack of pressure exerted by the water column 'above' him. However, deep sea octopi might explode under those conditions.

JHotz
2005-Aug-17, 04:56 AM
Reread I said freefall evirons of a spaceship.In water in the freefall environs of a spaceship? I expect your octopus would hardly notice, except for a curious lack of pressure exerted by the water column 'above' him. However, deep sea octopi might explode under those conditions.

Interesting points. I would assume any pressure could be simulated in a spaceship. I have never heard of a deep sea octopus. Could you elaborate.

Gillianren
2005-Aug-17, 05:53 AM
it's an octopus that lives deep in the sea. self-explanatory, really. (local urban legend that's vaguely relevant: the world's largest octopus supposedly lives in the Tacoma Narrows, inhabiting the remains of good ol' Galloping Gertie.) but based on your questions--are you aware that the octopus is a marine animal, and would need water?

GDwarf
2005-Aug-17, 07:20 PM
Reread I said freefall evirons of a spaceship.In water in the freefall environs of a spaceship? I expect your octopus would hardly notice, except for a curious lack of pressure exerted by the water column 'above' him. However, deep sea octopi might explode under those conditions.

Interesting points. I would assume any pressure could be simulated in a spaceship. I have never heard of a deep sea octopus. Could you elaborate.
Octopi live at various depths, some live in quite shallow water and, as such, have no need to compensate for the crushing pressure of water found deep down in the ocean. However, there are some that live fairly deep down on the ocean floor which have to compensate for this pressure, rather like inflating a balloon so that it can resist the pressure of air and expand. If these were brought into a low-pressure environment they might explode, like putting a fully inflated balloon in a vacuum.

skrap1r0n
2005-Aug-17, 07:48 PM
Reread I said freefall evirons of a spaceship.In water in the freefall environs of a spaceship? I expect your octopus would hardly notice, except for a curious lack of pressure exerted by the water column 'above' him. However, deep sea octopi might explode under those conditions.

Interesting points. I would assume any pressure could be simulated in a spaceship. I have never heard of a deep sea octopus. Could you elaborate.
Octopi live at various depths, some live in quite shallow water and, as such, have no need to compensate for the crushing pressure of water found deep down in the ocean. However, there are some that live fairly deep down on the ocean floor which have to compensate for this pressure, rather like inflating a balloon so that it can resist the pressure of air and expand. If these were brought into a low-pressure environment they might explode, like putting a fully inflated balloon in a vacuum.

Umm a baloon is full of a gas which can be compressed. I do not believe an Octopus (or squid) has an airbladder that will make differing depths an issue. If there are no airbladders, and since water cannot compress, why would pressure make a difference? I ask this because some of the squids we have caught or found near the surface are believed to live in the deep as well.

As far as creatures in freefall, I would be VERY interested to see how a slime mold colony adapted to 0g

JHotz
2005-Aug-17, 09:04 PM
it's an octopus that lives deep in the sea. self-explanatory, really. (local urban legend that's vaguely relevant: the world's largest octopus supposedly lives in the Tacoma Narrows, inhabiting the remains of good ol' Galloping Gertie.) but based on your questions--are you aware that the octopus is a marine animal, and would need water?

Perhaps water would be a superior medium to air in a spaceship. It provides shielding, allows swimming to maneuver, impedes fire, is none compressible so that in the event of a breach the water will not have the explosive force of air.

Sock Munkey
2005-Aug-17, 09:33 PM
When exposed to vaccum water boils into steam so you would still get that jet/suction effect.
It also would short out elecronics, corrode metal, and mass a lot so water would kind of suck for spacecraft atmosphere.

Swift
2005-Aug-17, 10:01 PM
When exposed to vaccum water boils into steam so you would still get that jet/suction effect.
It also would short out elecronics, corrode metal, and mass a lot so water would kind of suck for spacecraft atmosphere.
And humans do not breath water. :-?

JHotz
2005-Aug-17, 10:33 PM
When exposed to vaccum water boils into steam so you would still get that jet/suction effect.The difference is the time involved. The explosive decompression of air occurs much faster that a liquid vaporizing and therefore the latter would not have the same destructive effects.

It also would short out elecronics, corrode metal, The corrosion and electrical issues could be engineered around easily. Did you think I was proposing filling the space shuttle cabin with water?
and mass a lot so water would kind of suck for spacecraft atmosphere.This is a real issue. If we consider that the water only replaces the lighter air. If the water replace the heavy shielding that may be necessary as well, perhaps the weight will not be that much greater.

Gillianren
2005-Aug-18, 05:49 AM
correct me if I'm wrong, here, but are you suggesting octopus astronauts? 'cause there's a lot more problems with that than just the whole water/pressure thing.

John Dlugosz
2005-Aug-18, 07:00 PM
The ctenidium (molluscan gills) will work if kept wet. The rest of the animal does not have to stay underwater. Some animals do exactly that themselves to forray onto the beach. Land snails use the mantle cavity as a rudimentary lung.

http://www.nrcc.utmb.edu/images/octopus.htm

They are folds of tissue that hang inside the mantle cavity. At worst, you would need a helmit (or would that be a belt?) to keep water in the mantle cavity. At best, you might be able to use a dripper or mister with a catheter positioned just over the gills. Perhaps if the environment is humid enough, it won't have a problem--that would vary by species.

--John

JHotz
2005-Aug-18, 07:21 PM
correct me if I'm wrong, here, but are you suggesting octopus astronauts? 'cause there's a lot more problems with that than just the whole water/pressure thing.

I am interested. Please enumerate.

skrap1r0n
2005-Aug-18, 07:26 PM
correct me if I'm wrong, here, but are you suggesting octopus astronauts? 'cause there's a lot more problems with that than just the whole water/pressure thing.

I am interested. Please enumerate.

oh you know...like teaching an octopus to fly a spacecreaft?

Argos
2005-Aug-18, 07:45 PM
If thatīs the case then heīs in the right direction. Octopuses(*) are very intelligent.

Iīve read that octopi is not the correct formula. The Greek word is (was) Octopous. It got corrupted to octopus. Hence, this is not a Latin word, so it shouldnīt receive the Latin suffix. The correct Greek plural would be Octopodes (podes is the plural of pous). Octopuses is an accepted English plural.

Van Rijn
2005-Aug-18, 07:51 PM
If thatīs the case then heīs in the right direction. Octopuses(*) are very intelligent.



Define "very." Sure, for an invertebrate, they are pretty smart. But smart enough to run a spacecraft? I doubt it. And that assumes you can teach them and they will obey instructions. Then there is the issue of a short life span.

Extravoice
2005-Aug-18, 07:59 PM
And humans do not breath water. :-?

Not yet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_breathing).

Argos
2005-Aug-18, 08:05 PM
According to experts in the field I had the pleasure to read by virtue of this thread, octopuses are very smart in the context of the marine environment. But yes, thereīs a long way to go before one of them is able to compose something like the "Eroica". :D

skrap1r0n
2005-Aug-18, 08:41 PM
you guys should read the David Brin Uplift series. he has a spaceship designed and flown by Dolphins with chimps and humans as crew members.

JHotz
2005-Aug-18, 09:07 PM
If thatīs the case then heīs in the right direction. Octopuses(*) are very intelligent.I have heard that octopus/octopi can figure out complex sequential pussles.


Iīve read that octopi is not the correct formula. The Greek word is (was) Octopous. It got corrupted to octopus. Hence, this is not a Latin word, so it shouldnīt receive the Latin suffix. The correct Greek plural would be Octopodes (podes is the plural of pous). Octopuses is an accepted English plural. Interesting. What about the plural of Cactus.

Argos
2005-Aug-18, 09:24 PM
To keep this astronomy related, I once read that Perseus was originally meant to represent an Octopus. Itīs also interesting that such a marvellous animal hasnīt had a constellation named after it.

Sock Munkey
2005-Aug-18, 10:29 PM
And humans do not breath water. :-?

Not yet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_breathing).

That stuff isn't water, which is a good thing since it doesn't conduct elecricity like water does.

Squink
2005-Aug-19, 12:04 AM
That stuff isn't water, which is a good thing since it doesn't conduct elecricity like water does.Clean water is not a good conductor, having a resistance of about 18 Megohms per cubic centimeter. It's only when you dirty it up with CO2 and ionic salts that it passes much current.

publiusr
2005-Aug-19, 08:21 PM
The Crays used Perflubron--a fluisol type mixture--now considered as a blood substitute--sold as a surfactant IIRC.
Liquivent

As seen in The Abyss.

amstrad
2005-Aug-19, 10:45 PM
David Brin describes spaceships filled with water crewed by "uplifted" dolphins in the second book of his Uplift series, Startide Rising:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/055327418X/104-7454804-5667152

rockmysoul67
2005-Aug-20, 11:25 PM
In Stephen Baxter's novel "Time" and in his short story "Sheena 5", it's squids that are the space travellers (and in the short story they also invade the earth, if memory serves me well).

Postmortem
2005-Aug-21, 03:13 AM
I seriously doubt any octopus would explode no matter how deep underwater it's normal habitat is, actually marine biologists bring living creatures up from deep water all the time, and there is no need for them to keep them under extreame pressure for them to survive, infact the most important facter in keeping them alive is maintaining water temperature, it gets very cold down there and most critters down there don't do well in warm water

oynaz
2005-Aug-21, 09:13 PM
What is the differences between squids and octopuses anyway.

Mendel
2005-Aug-22, 12:51 PM
What about the plural of Cactus.

Cactae?

Argos
2005-Aug-22, 01:41 PM
Cactus is also a Greek word (kaktos). Plural: cactuses.

madamwitty
2005-Aug-22, 03:46 PM
What is the differences between squids and octopuses anyway.

The main difference that I know of is that they have a different number of tentacles. They are both cephalopods - so, same class, I guess?

JHotz
2005-Aug-22, 08:12 PM
Cactus is also a Greek word (kaktos). Plural: cactuses.Does the i plural form ever apply

JHotz
2005-Aug-22, 08:23 PM
What is the differences between squids and octopuses anyway.The octopus has no hard rigid parts except its beak. The octopus is adapted to living in shallow water and foraging on the sea floor. Because it has no rigid shape it cannot swim efficiently and therefore usual crawls along the floor unless spooked. The squid has a rigid internal bonelike structure that gives it good hydrodynamic shape. Squid are very good swimmers. They live in deep water and can catch fish.

Both have eight sucker-covered tentacles but the squid has two extra long appendages for catching fish. Both change color. Both swim backwards. The octopus tends to be shy but some squid are so aggressive are caught with unbaited hooks.

skrap1r0n
2005-Aug-22, 08:31 PM
I seriously doubt any octopus would explode no matter how deep underwater it's normal habitat is, actually marine biologists bring living creatures up from deep water all the time, and there is no need for them to keep them under extreame pressure for them to survive, infact the most important facter in keeping them alive is maintaining water temperature, it gets very cold down there and most critters down there don't do well in warm water

I am not clear on this, but I beleive they need to be brought up slowly. IIRC, most fish have an air bladder to help them maintain bouyancy. if you pull one up too quickly, it would explode.

Argos
2005-Aug-23, 01:09 PM
Cactus is also a Greek word (kaktos). Plural: cactuses.Does the i plural form ever apply

Itīs the prevailing form (~600,000 results on Google, against ~60,000 for cactuses). Wrong things always prevail, itīs a well known human pattern...

Edited to soften speech.

JHotz
2005-Aug-23, 07:54 PM
Cactus is also a Greek word (kaktos). Plural: cactuses.Does the i plural form ever apply

Itīs the prevailing form (~600,000 results on Google, against ~60,000 for cactuses). Wrong things always prevail, itīs a well known human pattern...

Edited to soften speech.Language changes. The change is initially seen as erroneous but at some point is becomes broadly accepted and correct. I think perhaps you are a bit behind the curve my Greek friend. The golden years of Greek power and influence have past. While we owe Greek culture a great deal it is time to accept the other influences of contemporary language.

This reminds me of the Greek grandfather, in My Big Fat Greek Wedding, who say tell me a word and I will tell you how it comes from Greek.

Argos
2005-Aug-23, 09:20 PM
Complain to The Academy, not to me. Iīm just trying to help you.

The Meal
2005-Aug-23, 10:13 PM
Your Overlords have taken notice of your interest in their future explorations, and they are not amused.

~Neal

JHotz
2005-Aug-24, 01:49 AM
Complain to The Academy, not to me. Iīm just trying to help you.No offense I was just trying for a cheap laugh.

JHotz
2005-Aug-25, 03:24 AM
Because the octopus has only a rigid jaw it can squeeze through tiny openings relative to its body size. Suiting up for Extra Vehicular Activity would be a breeze. All the passageways could be made very small. This lessens both their risk seal failure as well as their weight. Perhaps just a cork could be used.

Gillianren
2005-Aug-25, 06:48 PM
I'm still way confused by the concept of octopus astronauts. are we supposing intelligent octopus? (I have decided that "octopus" should be akin to "moose" or "sheep," being its own plural. saves debate.)

Argos
2005-Aug-25, 07:03 PM
I believe JHotz is talking about the behavior of the common octopus.

JHotz
2005-Aug-25, 09:21 PM
I'm still way confused by the concept of octopus astronauts. are we supposing intelligent octopus? (I have decided that "octopus" should be akin to "moose" or "sheep," being its own plural. saves debate.)I am asking what ideas considering an octopus as an astronaut can generate.