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Deep_Eye
2003-Sep-09, 10:59 PM
I've been reading a lot of material on this subject, and have also researched a fair amount, but I'd like other opinions. Do you think that there is more than one universe? Such as sister or brother universes. Not parallel though, just like if you could fly to the end of this universe, and go into another, completely different, or maybe a lot alike, who knows. Maybe they'd be seperated by gravity fields or maybe nothing at all. Opinions please????

etvisitor7
2003-Sep-15, 11:09 PM
:) Deep Eye,
I would say that there is not only more than one universe, there is an infinity of universes out there. Infinity is the essential nature of cosmos. There is no beginning and no end because every beginning is an end, and every end a beginning! Limitless numbers of universes constitute the eternal cosmos.
Best wishes, Russell

Josh
2003-Sep-16, 01:21 AM
Russell, I completely agree with you. Getting people's heads around this time thing though isn't too easy. You say things like there is no end and no beginning and people say "well there must be".

"These humans are so linear."

Deep_Eye
2003-Sep-19, 01:06 AM
For me its an obsession. I love big numbers and just thinking of space as "infinite" and full of multiple universes, even clusters of them. Don't ask. :)

imported_ROB
2003-Sep-19, 12:41 PM
i agree with the infinate but would it be possible to "jump" from one to another?

heres a thought would the dying star that created the black holes be the door way to the next universe with all that matter (and anti matter) being eaten by them is it pushing it so densly together that in results in a big bang thus creating a universe



do black holes dye?


rob
:blink: :(

KB3HTS
2003-Sep-19, 04:44 PM
I for one don't believe in the idea of multiple universes. First of all, by definition of what the word "universe" means there cannot be multiple universes. Also, if there was another universe the laws of physics and mathematics would be different. You can't use the laws of math and physics in THIS universe to prove another place exists where they DON'T exist (did that make sense? hope so).
One theory I have heard on the topic that kind of relates to your question goes like this: if the universe is infinite then if you go far enough away you will eventually find a place just like Earth, according to probability, and someone exactly the same as you! (I'm mentioning this because it was in a Scientific American article a few months back.) This also cannot exist because of Godel's theorem, which essentially states there are truths the universe abides by outside of mathematics (which is by itself an interesting thought!), so something outside of math would make it not happen.

Andy Nimmo
2003-Sep-20, 09:03 AM
Hi Deep Eye,

I hope this doesn't come up twice, but I tried a minute ago on the fast reply and for some reason it crashed my machine. Anyway, here goes again.

As the last person who answered asserted, there can only be one Universe as the definition of the word is 'All that there is'. However...

Back in December 1960 I was asked to give a talk on the 'Many Worlds' Theory to the then Scottish Branch of the British Interplanetary Society which met in Glasgow where I live. I wanted a plural but didn't want to use 'Worlds' as that meant 'planets' in our circles, so I invented the new word 'Multiverse' with the definition, 'An apparent Universe a multiplicity of which go to make up the whole'. Someone who was at the talk then went to a science fiction convention and used the word, and a science fiction author who later became prominent, picked up the word, but not the proper meaning, and he used it in a book that came out near the end of the 60s., but with the opposite meaning to the correct one. Various scientists read science fiction, and one picked the word up and ever since then scientists who may know their science, but not their etymology, have been talking about a Multiverse full of Universes, when it should be a Universe full of Multiverses.

So those of you who don't like the idea of more than one Universe can rest easy. There is only one, but there may be many Multiverses, that are really only 'Apparent' Universes. Some versions of String Theory indicate there may be an infinite number of multiverses - though they often call them universes. 'M' Theory usually wants at least two in an extra dimensional framework, though in 'M' Theory they are usually called 'Branes'. This goes back to 1973 when Keiichi Akama of the Physics Dept., of Saitama Medical College, Japan proposed that we live in what he called a 3 dimensional “brane world” in a 6 dimensional space-time.

Best wishes, Andy.

RobN1b
2003-Sep-20, 07:25 PM
An infinite number of ANYTHING other than numbers is absurd. Explain how such could originate. Well, they can't because infinite "things" can't originate - they have always existed! Multiuniverses are mere inventions of cosmologists who are embarrassed by the possibilty of "creation from nothing."
Think about it.

Deep_Eye
2003-Sep-21, 05:21 PM
Hmm. Definitions of words have changed over time. I don't think there is an "infinite" amount of something in the universe, just a whole whole whole bunch.

spiffstar
2003-Sep-21, 07:42 PM
One of the greatest human flaws can be the failure to admit that we are completely wrong. We're flawed creatures, we are egotistical at times, and we should be lucky. Do you think that the universe "knew" that in the process of it's evolution there would be a network that is very complex in nature of creatures that can even ponder their own existece? Intellegence that would try to figure out the essence of the universe itself? We as humans are so lucky to wonder, it's probably our greatest gift. I dont know if i'm rambling but I just wanted to ask that even though we can all come up with great theories, when will we ever have the technology to test them? And if we don't have the technology to test them, how can we ever say, "This one is wrong, and this one is right"?

I personally love the idea of the multiverse, and I created a drawing to represent my own idea a couple of years ago. I really want to share it, but I don't know how to without showing the picture, and if I show the picture, I don't want someone else to take credit for it and steal it from me. Oh well, I have a feeling that anyone on this site probably has respect for intellectual property anyways.

Deep Eye, my idea is just too hard to describe without some visual reference, but I would really like to show you and see what you think. It's kindof a brainbuster, and the chances of it actually being true are one in a billion, but I think that it offers a little bit of a different way of looking at things. It involves the idea the the universe stretches infinitely inwards and infinitely outwards at the same time. It's represented by splitting up our universe into 8 different corners (that are all connected but not at the same time) the drawing is a purely mathematical model and I don't know how many dimensions it is, but maybe you could help. Let me know. I'll check the forum in a little bit.

MarQ
2003-Sep-22, 02:20 AM
Nat Geo recently had a short story about a scientists theory of a "gazillion"
"Multiverses" abutting each other in space like the individual foam bubbles on top of a beer.
Now, that's hard for me to swallow. But, still, the theories about the Universe or Universes seems, indeed, infinite.

CyberJIT
2003-Sep-22, 03:52 AM
I read somewhere that a someone on the head of the said once (pretty specific so far :P ): "When you command a million people, something that has one in a million odds of happening, will happen at least once in a year" (maybe he was who originally created the Murphy's law)

Now consider that the Universe is infinite, so the answer to every question that starts with "Is there in the Universe..." should be "Yes!"

I think about this whenever they question the posibility of life outside Earth, or in this case, Multiverses.

What would you say the are the probabilities of something like life? (even complex life forms). Consider or not Drake's equation (did I mention the right one?). One in a million, one in a trillion, one in a gazillion? Well, the Universe is greater than that, and so are the chances of anything of existing.

It's simplistic, I know, but not as simplistic as saying "No, that's just impossible".

Deep_Eye
2003-Sep-23, 12:55 AM
Spiffstar, for one thing, if you're old enough you can get the picture copyrighted or patented. Your drawing sounds pretty cool, I'd guess either four or five dimensions, but I'm not the best at figuring that. If you get the picture copyrighted could you post it or email it to me? I'd like to see it. Or if you can't I promise I wouldn't take credit for it, I believe in giving credit where credit is due.

Kumar
2003-Sep-24, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by Deep_Eye@Sep 9 2003, 10:59 PM
Do you think that there is more than one universe? Such as sister or brother universes. Not parallel though, just like if you could fly to the end of this universe, and go into another, completely different, or maybe a lot alike, who knows. Maybe they'd be seperated by gravity fields or maybe nothing at all. Opinions please????
The Hindu scripture, "Srimad Bagavatam", affirms that there is more than one universe. This view is supported by Dr Richard L. Thompson in his work entitled "Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy".

Deep_Eye
2003-Sep-25, 10:15 PM
I'm not very familiar with Hindu scripture, because I'm a Christian. Please explain.