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Qayyim
2003-Sep-20, 01:13 AM
Another thread here got me thinking: We all (execpt for Muslims) use the years set up by the Catholic church based on the birthday of Jesus Christ.

Has anyone come up with an idea that we can use a calendar based upon science on the known universe and not one made or influenced by a religion? If there are any ideas, post here@

bfoz
2003-Sep-20, 05:43 PM
Astronomers and orbital dynamicists still use the Julian calender which is composed entirely of days and years; no weeks or months. A Julian year is also 365.25 days long. Not very useful for everyday applications I guess.

What are the properties that make a good calendar? What are the relevant scientific principles that could be used as the basis for a calendar? What epoch would you choose?

Stardates? :D

BTW, the calendar we use now isn't striclty Catholic. Its based on the collective work of the Council of Trent (1545 - 1563) and a librarian (Aloysius Lilius). They proposed a replacement for the Julian calendar which was then approved by Gregory XIII in 1582. The calendar itself is scientifically based (old science, but still science); the primary epoch appears to be the only religious component.

All of this is according to my my old college astrodynamics book (Vallado, 1997).

Fraser
2003-Sep-21, 04:47 AM
So this would be Year 13,721,234,902 After-Big-Bang (ABB). I like it. Y2k was nothing compared to the programming job this is going to take.

Maybe we should wait a bit for astronomers to finally agree on the age of the Universe.

Josh
2003-Sep-21, 08:17 AM
Perhaps we could start the year zero at the date of sputnik? or Yuri Gagarin's first manned flight? everything before is before space flight BSF. It would also make sense to have a weeks, years days hours ... etc based on a decimal system. The base 10 number system is a logical one to use i think.

When we have first contact (note the WHEN) with an alien species perhaps start the calandar over. These are/would be the major events and turning points in human history and civilization. The "space age" did/should have sparked a revolution in human existence. maybe it still will?

AstroStart.nl
2003-Sep-21, 02:49 PM
'When we have first contact (note the WHEN) with an alien species perhaps start the calandar over. These are/would be the major events and turning points in human history and civilization.'

I agree with that. Also its a good idea too start the calender at the year 1969. I think you know what has happen that year -_-

major_eh
2003-Sep-23, 08:20 AM
Start the calender over again when important events occur....Much like the chinese calender used to incorporate with their solar/lunar calender where years would start over again with the accession of a new emperor. Sounds confusing but is one way of ensuring future generations know their history. :blink:

zephyr46
2003-Oct-21, 03:59 AM
Galactic time (http://www.theorderoftime.com/science/galactic.html), though as major_eh, keeping old calenders alive helps keep our collective history alive, Today (http://www.ecben.net/calendar.shtml)

QJones
2003-Oct-21, 07:39 AM
Sadly, whatever event you use is going to be a big ego boost to whoever caused the event.

i.e., using a large, human-performed, historical event is going to put rocks in the shoes of whoever disagreed with the event.

The current system is nice, because it works. The only other idea is to become "emperor of earth" and change the calender as a fit of hubris.

The other idea is to start your own space colony, and then generate a new system based off of when you left earth.

Fraser
2003-Oct-21, 08:15 AM
Emperor of the Earth... that's got a nice ring to it.

zephyr46
2003-Oct-22, 12:11 AM
Fraser? :blink:
I like the galactic time, though I think it's only use is to peg the geological timescale to somthing astronomical, Anone know how many 'Spins' we have done?
I read 15, and 21, and somthing in the 40s.

starrman
2003-Oct-22, 07:52 AM
Seems to me I recall James Tiberius Kirk uttering cheesy voiceovers at the beginning of each Star Trek episode that always began something like, "Captain's log, stardate 5417.8..." or some such. Perhaps Gene Roddenbery has already worked this out for us...

John

zephyr46
2003-Oct-24, 02:47 AM
Our Sun, together with the whole Solar System, is orbiting the Galactic Center at the distance given, on a nearly circular orbit. We are moving at about 250 km/sec, and need about 220 million years to complete one orbit (so the Solar System has orbited the Galactic Center about 20 to 21 times since its formation about 4.6 billion years ago).
SEDS (http://www.seds.org/messier/more/mw.html)

galacticdate 21
stardate (http://www.nobel.se/physics/articles/fusion/sun_1.html) 4.500 000 000 (http://www.astro.uiuc.edu/~kaler/AstroBrief/chapter12/sunage.html)
earthdate 4550000000 (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html)

interesting Ohio State lecture (http://www-astronomy.mps.ohio-state.edu/~depoy/courses/lecture.notes/energy1.html) on the age of the sun.

Holecene calendar 12003 (http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/5766/HOLOCENE.HTML)
:unsure:

Matthew
2003-Oct-24, 08:01 AM
Imagine the massive change of redoing the calander. :o

It'd be a bigger task than anything we could imagine, for years thousands of times every day people would refer to the old system of time/date/year. Ahh, I don't think something like that will happen for a long while.

zephyr46
2003-Nov-05, 04:38 AM
you only have to look at the rest of the solar system to see how irrelevent and confusing one earth year is in relation to the rest of the solar system, mercurys year 87.969 (http://www.solarviews.com/eng/mercury.htm) earth days, plutos year 248.54 (http://www.solarviews.com/eng/pluto.htm) earth years, and all in between. I think the best calender will incorporate all time related phenomena. Thoroughness rather than omission.

kashi
2003-Nov-05, 11:52 AM
I say if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

zephyr46
2003-Nov-06, 12:41 AM
Perhaps we could start the year zero at the date of sputnik? or Yuri Gagarin's first manned flight? everything before is before space flight BSF. It would also make sense to have a weeks, years days hours ... etc based on a decimal system. The base 10 number system is a logical one to use i think.

Key dates in the history of space flight

PARIS (AFP) Oct 15, 2003
Following are key dates in the history of space travel:


1961

April 12: Soviet cosmonaut Yury Gagarin becomes first man in space, completing a single, 108-minute orbit aboard Vostok 1

May 5: US launches a Mercury spacecraft, carrying astronaut Alan Shepard in a sub-orbital flight. First American in orbit is John Glenn, in February 1962



1963: First space flight by a woman, cosmonaut Valentina Tereshkova



1965: Cosmonaut Aleksei Leonov undertakes first-ever spacewalk



1967: Launchpad blaze kills all three astronauts, Gus Grissom, Ed White and Roger Chaffee, aboard Apollo 1 (January). Soviet cosmonaut Vladimir Komarov killed when Soyuz 1 parachute fails (April)



1968: Apollo 8 becomes first manned spaceship to fly around the Moon



1969: Man lands on the Moon (Apollo 11)



1972: Last manned flight to the Moon (Apollo 17)



1975: A US Apollo spacecraft docks with a Soviet Soyuz spacecraft while in Earth orbit on 18 July, in first international co-operative space flight



1981: Maiden voyage of the US space shuttle Columbia, the first reusable manned spacecraft



1986: Loss of US space shuttle Challenger. Seven astronauts killed



1998: International Space Station (ISS) starts to take shape



1999: China carries out first unmanned flight of its own spacecraft



2001: Soviet-Russian space station Mir is destroyed after 15 years in service. World's first space tourist, US millionaire Dennis Tito taken to ISS



2003:

Feb 1: Lost of space shuttle Columbia. All seven astronauts killed



Oct 15: China becomes third country to launch a man into space as Lieutenant Colonel Yang Liwei, 38, enters into orbit onboard the Shenzhou V capsule

Quoted from Spacedaily.com (http://www.spacedaily.com/2003/031015021406.gmqxz2sw.html)



I say if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

What is the tenth month of the roman calendar ?
December

Sept (7) September, 9th month in ours,
Oct (8) October, 10th month in our,
Nove (9) November, 11th month in ours,
Deci (10) December, 12th month in ours,

It's broken!
I think in it's reconstruction we should look at the Mayan Calendar (http://webexhibits.org/calendars/calendar-mayan.html)
:)

Matthew
2003-Nov-07, 10:15 AM
The original months of the Roman Calendar (of which our current calender system is derived) had ten months, it missed out on January and February. Eventually January and Febraury wereadded, but the calendar was hoplessly out of wack. Then Julius Cesear came about and at the insistance of astronomer Sosigenes Julius fixed the calender to be based on the Solar year, not the lunar year. In this calendar there were 365 days, except for every fourth year where there was an extra day added. Julius also renamed the months Quintilis and Sextilis to Julius and Augustus (July and August).

Well thats the brief history of our calendar.

The Mayan calendar looks too complex.

zephyr46
2003-Nov-12, 12:12 AM
Too Hard, Crash it into the sea :)

Powers of Ten Day (http://www.powersof10.com/p10_day/p102003.html)

Here is a suggested day, not even mucking around with the calendar, a bit easier than the Mayan calander. If there is a way of creating a decimal day month and year I think the soultion lies with powers of ten. Any change needs to remain observant to precession 365 and 1/4 days per orbit of the sun. Despite Qayyims


Has anyone come up with an idea that we can use a calendar based upon science on the known universe and not one made or influenced by a religion?

I think it is important to keep these alternative calenders alive for posterity. Just me though.

jkmccrann
2005-Oct-26, 03:19 PM
Despite it's age, I think this is an interesting topic, and as far as I would say on the topic of calendars, I think the level of inertia we have with the current calendar completely precludes the prospect of any change to our current system in any situation short of a major event. Like a major nuclear war. Or perhaps an asteroid striking the Earth.

The most glaring example there could be of this sort of societal inertia is the adoption of the metric system! How long has that adoption been progressing now?

Gillianren
2005-Oct-26, 08:05 PM
The original months of the Roman Calendar (of which our current calender system is derived) had ten months, it missed out on January and February. Eventually January and Febraury wereadded, but the calendar was hoplessly out of wack. Then Julius Cesear came about and at the insistance of astronomer Sosigenes Julius fixed the calender to be based on the Solar year, not the lunar year. In this calendar there were 365 days, except for every fourth year where there was an extra day added. Julius also renamed the months Quintilis and Sextilis to Julius and Augustus (July and August).

Surely, Augustus renamed Sextilis?

LurchGS
2005-Nov-02, 08:44 PM
Perhaps we could start the year zero at the date of sputnik? or Yuri Gagarin's first manned flight? everything before is before space flight BSF. It would also make sense to have a weeks, years days hours ... etc based on a decimal system. The base 10 number system is a logical one to use i think.


I favor AA - after atomic. Many SF writers use this - though most seem to use the bombing of Japan as the initial date, instead of Fermi's reactor under the bleachers in Chicago...

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with the Julian calendar...today is 306, 2005. (no, I'm not an astronomer or orbital dynamicist, or anything really cool. I own a small telephone company. Of course, it helps that Dad's a physicist/astronomer and that I've been using Julian all my life!)

----------------------

Only 424 more days until next Xmas!

Laminal Cockroach
2005-Nov-02, 09:29 PM
How bout AHE After Human existence.. though we annly vaguely know about it, or do we :think: we cant just set an era beginning with a discovery or some kindda invention.. its gotta be summing big on the lines of the big bang.. keep thinking.