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Locke
2003-Oct-04, 10:28 PM
If you were to clone your body and impose upon it ancephaly, then basically you would grow a body with no brain. So if you were, let's say 80 years old, and nearing death, you could transplant your brain (if it is actually physically possible) in the empty body and live another life. If you continued this process, you could obtain seemingly endless life.

-Locke

DippyHippy
2003-Oct-04, 11:10 PM
Ah... now you're getting into deep philosophical waters because if that were the case, then clearly humans have no soul...

Those who say we have a soul obviously don't believe we can live eternally in this manner because how do you transfer the soul?

Was anyone unfortunate to see the film Freejack with Emilio Estevez, Anthony Hopkins and *shudder* Mick Jagger? Hopkins' character tried to do a similar thing there (he actually kidnapped Estevez from the past to use his body for this reason)...

Locke
2003-Oct-05, 12:05 AM
My belief is that your mind is your soul. I think if you were to transplant your brain it would, perhaps transfer your soul. Besides, it's only an idea. :P

-Locke

Tinaa
2003-Oct-05, 08:32 PM
I don't think you'll find eternal life on Earth, however, I've read lots of sci-fi where the knowledge of a human brain is uploaded into a computer. I also saw something on Discovery Channel about it. The author suggested that it may be the only way to explore the galaxy. No worries about atmosphere, atrophy or age.

DippyHippy
2003-Oct-06, 12:18 AM
Tina, yeah but that's not the way I'd like to explore the galaxy...

Some time ago, I used to write a journal on an old Amstrad word processor. When I got my first laptop, 6 years ago, I converted all the files to Word documents and was most dismayed to find that hundreds of pages of my most intimate thoughts, spanning more than 5 years, could easily be fitted onto a single 1.4MB floppy disc :blink:

Ah well...

Tinaa
2003-Oct-07, 05:03 AM
Oh but think of all the wonderful things to see! One could tour the galaxy without worries, unless, of course, your computer crashes! I think, if it were possible, I'd say, "load me up, Scotty!" Well, perhaps I'd wait until I'm a bit older. I have kids to raise and miles to go before I sleep! Ah, sleep, perchance to dream... of sailing through the galaxy... to a galaxy, far, far away...

Frost to Shakespeare to Star Wars... Who'd a thunk it?

Locke
2003-Oct-07, 05:05 AM
Although I think we should continue exploration in reality, I agree with Tinaa. Sounds pretty cool to be able to plob down in front of the computer and float through the galaxy...

-Locke

Matthew
2003-Oct-07, 06:49 AM
There's still a while to go until we can download ourselves onto computers. But what is stopping us from brain transplant (besides the moral issues). If you could connect nerves in the new body to your old brain then you might be able to survive and function properly. But I'm not that good at biology/medicine.

rahuldandekar
2003-Oct-07, 09:41 AM
If we upload all the information in our brain to a computer, we may create a new being, but we ourselves would not be transferred. That is not possible without an actual brain transplant.
But there is a limit on the life of brain cells also. As we grow older some of our cells die. That is why we may not live eternally. (Remember brain cells cannot reproduce).

Matthew
2003-Oct-07, 09:56 AM
If we upload all the information in our brain to a computer, we may create a new being, but we ourselves would not be transferred.

Wouldn't we? We would be exact replicas of ourselves and thus we would be ourselves. We would just be on a computer. If our body later died the computer you would be the only you.

Tinaa
2003-Oct-07, 03:11 PM
We can't do brain transplants for the same reason we can't heal spinal cord injuries. Nerves grow so very slowly and we can't reconnect nerves. Probably easier to upload your mind. As far as an exact replica, you are your thoughts (I think therefore I am). Exact copies are the same as the original!

Planetwatcher
2003-Oct-07, 07:14 PM
The issue of transfering one's mind is greatly expanded on in a sci-fi novel series known as Horseclansmen. Last I knew there were at least 15 books out.

The plot is futuristic post WW3 North America, where a man named Milo Murry was mutated by radiation to become undying.
He leads a group of people from 500 years from now who have skills in sword, spear, pike, and lancet fighting, on military adventures to re-take the lands in North America.

The major villians are a group of scientists from the early 21st century who has discovered how to transplant their minds into younger people thereby making their minds nearly immortal. They learned that Milo is but one of a race of the undying, which these scientists would like very much to capture, because once their minds are transfered into undying beings, they never need another mind trasfer.

The series from what I read covered a time span of from a couple hundred years from now, up to over 2,500 years into their future.

all_isone
2003-Oct-07, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by Locke@Oct 4 2003, 10:28 PM
you could transplant your brain (if it is actually physically possible) in the empty body and live another life
where could you find an "empty body" ?
no body is empty, you would need to take somebodys brain out and install your own, bad bad Locke

now, another question:
Why do people want eternal life?
What for? I really dont get it.
I want to live as long as i'm naturally going to,
then bye bye, see you next time
This obsession with eternity is a mystery to me. :ph34r:

DippyHippy
2003-Oct-12, 02:04 AM
If we can download our memories and personalities, let's hope the operating system isn't Windows based... and let's hope they don't have pop-ups and banner ads too!! :blink:

Haglund
2003-Oct-12, 08:53 AM
Yes if you had a body and moved your brain to it, you would live with that body and could repeat the process. But I think that we might find other ways to stop aging.

kashi
2003-Oct-12, 09:13 AM
Is there more to consciousness than the brain, a part of the human anatomy that we still no relatively little about?

QJones
2003-Oct-17, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by all_isone@Oct 7 2003, 09:08 PM
I want to live as long as i'm naturally going to,
then bye bye, see you next time
This obsession with eternity is a mystery to me. :ph34r:
I can understand this, but what we're talking about is medically-useful ways of extending your life.

I think you'd admit that you're quite willing to 'allow' medicine to extend your life to a 'reasonable' level, correct? If you needed surgery at 45yrs that allowed you to live until you were 80yrs, you'd allow it, right?

You've got to remember that a life expectancy of 80years is a recent phenomenon. At the beginning of the century, the average age of death was about 34yrs. Granted, most of the gains have been by preventing infant mortality - but many mid-life threats can be treated with surgery these days.

Currently, it seems that genetically we could live about 120 years - it's just that other parts of the body fail due to poor upkeep and bad luck. And really, there's quite a bit that can be done to augment our genetic longevity.

QJones
2003-Oct-17, 11:58 PM
Once you accept that science can reasonably extend your lifespan by 20 years from current expectations, there's no real reason to think that you won't continue to find new ways of adding another 20 years - especially with the technology curve we're currently experiencing.

Matthew
2003-Oct-18, 12:24 AM
You've got to remember that a life expectancy of 80years is a recent phenomenon. At the beginning of the century, the average age of death was about 34yrs. Granted, most of the gains have been by preventing infant mortality - but many mid-life threats can be treated with surgery these days.

The beginning of this century began a mere 3 or so years ago. You must be talking about the beginning of the 20th century we're currently in the 21st century.


The more we understand disease that currently is killing of humans (such as AIDS, cancer, ect...) and if we work out a way to cure or prevent these diseases then our average lifespan will increase. But a simple act like getting clean water to people in 3rd world countries would also increase the average life span of humans.

QJones
2003-Oct-21, 08:40 AM
Yeah, yeah, yeah ... you know what I meant.

Okay, some more thoughts on immortality.

You could download your brain, sure, but I don't find that satisfying. There wouldn't be a continuation of consciousness. If done correctly, the program in the computer would think it was you, but you'd be sitting there, looking at the computer and be thinking "wait, I'm still here"

Howabout this, though? Suppose you could connect a portion of your brain to a computer? "Jack in" so to speak. So that, some of the time you'd be looking out of your eyes and thinking, and some of the time, you'd be in the computer, doing stuff there? Then, all that would be required would be to permanently shunt your consciousness into the computer. Sounds good? Except we don't know if the consciousness can be shunted into the computer. We just don't know.

How about rejuvenation, though? I personally believe that rejuvenation can lead to immortality. I really think it's possible

Right now, we suspect that much of aging has a genetic component. Our DNA gets old, it's a simple as that. Well, if we could fix the DNA (which is not only theoretically possible, but likely to occur fairly soon), then we could stave off aging that way.

As our organs failed us, we could replace them. You're still "YOU" if you've got a new liver, right? So there's no problem there.

The last problem is the brain. You'd need to find a way to replace parts of the brain as they failed. That's not as goofy as it sounds. The brain is not one collective mass, it's composed of trillions of neurons. Those neurons are constantly adapting and forming new pathways (if you continue to exercise your brain, that is). The neat thing is that neurons can take over for other neurons if they've been damaged. They can temporarily take over the job, or even permanently take over.

If you found a way of injecting new neurons into the brain, and then incorporated them into the brain, then you could slowly replace neurons as they failed, without ever losing your identity. Ergo, immortality. The new neurons would continue the collective work of the aging neurons.

all_isone
2003-Oct-22, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by QJones@Oct 17 2003, 11:56 PM
I think you'd admit that you're quite willing to 'allow' medicine to extend your life to a 'reasonable' level, correct? If you needed surgery at 45yrs that allowed you to live until you were 80yrs, you'd allow it, right?


it's a different issue accepting surgery & drugs to improve health problems.
i think we are talking immortality eg. artificial 'rejuvenation' up to 120+ which is a different issue.
the planet IS over crowded, why should people live more than they are naturaly designed to? I think 80 -which of course is only a western standard- is more than enough.
i'm always thinking of the consequences (sp) this might have on planet, economy and over population.

instead of extending life span, we could concentrate more on AIDS, cancer & SARS, makes more sense to me.
this ego-tripping attitude 'i wanna live FOREVER' is really childish not to say dangerous to our system.

to me this is an ethical issue.
am i the only one here that sees things this way?
i woder...

cygonaut
2003-Oct-23, 09:16 AM
The problem is that whatever body you put the brain in, the brain is still aging.

Another problem is the constant threat of destruction to the body. You can still die in a car accident, for example.

Remote operated mobile machinery might be a way to get near-invincibility. If the equipment gets destoyed, it's simply replaced with a new one you remotely operate.

You still need to protect yourself though, perhaps surrounded by a hard shell in some secret location.

Matthew
2003-Oct-26, 04:42 AM
I read an article in the Sunaday Herald Sun on page 43 (its a Melbourne, Australia newspaper), which said that you could live for about 500 years. But, you have to: Excercise A LOT
Be neutered (lose the ability to have sex and reproduce)
Eat only the right food.

That gives you a theoretical possibility of living to 500. Genetists have extended the life of a nematode roundworm life to the human equevilant of 500 years.

Its not eternal life, but its a start, if we can do it. <_<

DippyHippy
2003-Oct-28, 04:24 AM
Why can&#39;t we have sex? I thought sex was meant to be good for you - LOL no seriously, I thought the boffins had worked out it was healthy for you... or was that just something I made up to tell my better half?? :blink:

jimmy
2003-Oct-28, 02:18 PM
It seem everyone associates the "self" with the brain. There are those who believe that awareness or "mind" in not confined to the brain. I am not advanced enough in meditation to "know" this as so, but it sure is hopeful.

QJones
2003-Oct-28, 09:30 PM
all_isone
Oh, it&#39;s certainly an ethical issue. But, the overpopulation problem you are describing is one due to inefficient use of resources. Either the world needs fewer people on it, or we need to use our resources in a less damaging way.

I&#39;ll tell you though, once I realised that I&#39;d be living at least 90 more years on this earth, I became a lot more concerned with proper management of our ecology. In fact, I&#39;d say that the selfish desire to preserve the planet for me is a lot stronger than preserving the planet &#39;for the children&#39;. I&#39;m not being shallow, I hope you can see that. It&#39;s just easier to care for myself.

So, in that regard, the more people you could get living 100&#39;s of years, the more people you&#39;d expect to care about the current consumption of the planet. Really, most people could improve the efficiency of their consumption, in fact, many people could easily think of ways.

What you are doing, though, is insisting that I die to preserve the planet. Is that fair? Is euthenasia the answer? It certainly is one, but I don&#39;t think it&#39;s the only one.
PS: I&#39;m glad that you think that we should focus on third world problems. Power to you, and I mean that&#33; I&#39;d much rather an intelligent person devote their efforts to improving people&#39;s lives than keeping up on the latest gossip about fashion and hollywood.

QJones
2003-Oct-28, 09:43 PM
matthew and cygonaut
Don&#39;t live like a nematode&#33; First off, it&#39;s a lousy way to live&#33; Second off, we only know that it applies to nematodes, we don&#39;t know about people&#33;

But what you should pull out of this is that research into curing aging is constantly progressing. And, as time passes, better life-extending technologies will become available. We know that aging has a biological and genetic component, and research (+ progress) are being made in both fields.

We don&#39;t need to &#39;discover&#39; immortality. All we really need is to discover a way to live 30 more years. And then, within that 30 years, discover a way to live 10 more ... etc.

The brain ages, sure, but the brain is a plastic organ. You can replace parts of the brain with new material and have it incorporate into the existing &#39;you&#39; very easily. Using this knowledge, you can actually replace the &#39;old&#39; parts of the brain ad infinitum. In fact, we very likely will be able to replace &#39;dying&#39; sections of the brain with hardy new cells. The trick is to keep replacing the old with the new - and maybe making the &#39;new&#39; even better. If we discovered a way to make cells immortal (which some cells are, essentially, already), we could incorporate them into a brain, a section at a time, effectively making people immortal.

Tips on living longer:
eat healthy and exercise - that&#39;s a &#39;duh&#39; statement, but you&#39;d be surprised how many people don&#39;t.
Avoid known causes of death - i.e., bullets and smoking
Live in a society that works on curing death, and encouraging the research to progress faster than you will die.
Have the money to buy the cure when it&#39;s necessary
Live your life like it&#39;s going to last a LONG time.

all_isone
2003-Oct-29, 08:19 AM
stress free & possitive attitude also helps in long healthy life

Matthew
2003-Oct-29, 08:49 AM
Our bodies deteriorate. But with the coming on nanomachines we could repair ourselves, fixing up the deterioration. Its still a long way off those sort of nanomachines though.