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KarenS
2002-Sep-17, 11:45 PM
Hello all! I've been a Bad Reader for a few months, but this is my first posting. I've been reading Tim Callahan's Origin's of the Bible, where he mentions Immanuel Velikovsky's theories about how several miracles can be explained by Venus' near collision with Earth. My jaw nearly dropped to the floor! Apparently this Velikovsky guy thinks Venus was once a comet expelled from Jupiter about 3500 years ago. A skeptical discussion of his stuff can be found here:
http://skepdic.com/velikov.html

I don't know about anyone else, but this seems to be the baddest of bad astronomy. I can't believe people actually bought into his theories! Has anyone else here heard of him? Any comments?

Rodina
2002-Sep-18, 12:16 AM
I have some vague recollection that Carl Sagan talked about this silly theory in one episode of Cosmos, but it's been so long since I've seen it I don't know if I'm imagining it.

Donnie B.
2002-Sep-18, 01:33 AM
Sure, the late Mr. Velikovsky is a very well-known crank... /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

GrapesOfWrath
2002-Sep-18, 09:14 AM
The BA has an entire chapter in his book about the subject. Velikovsky's most famous book is called Worlds in Collision, BA's chapter is entitled Worlds in Derision.

KarenS
2002-Sep-18, 12:19 PM
Excellent! I've been considering buying the book, and now I have one more reason. Thanks!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KarenS on 2002-09-18 12:57 ]</font>

GrapesOfWrath
2002-Sep-18, 12:22 PM
You're welcome. And, welcome to the BABB.

Silas
2002-Sep-18, 03:55 PM
I read "Worlds in Collision" when in high school, and even as a youth, recognized that it was hogwash.

My favorite sleight of hand is where Velikovsky refers to "hydrocarbons" in one paragraph, and to "carbohydrates" in the next. Sure, let's all eat tar and drink gasoline... He appeared to imagine that if the words were similar, the chemicals must be similar too. That's like going to Bhutan to buy Butane...

Silas

Darkwing
2002-Sep-18, 04:55 PM
In Carl Sagan's Book Broca's Brain he has a big chapter debunking Velikovsky. The book is worth it just for that chapter, although I highly recommend the entire book--it's a great read.

Mainframes
2002-Sep-18, 05:50 PM
On 2002-09-18 11:55, Silas wrote:
I read "Worlds in Collision" when in high school, and even as a youth, recognized that it was hogwash.

My favorite sleight of hand is where Velikovsky refers to "hydrocarbons" in one paragraph, and to "carbohydrates" in the next. Sure, let's all eat tar and drink gasoline... He appeared to imagine that if the words were similar, the chemicals must be similar too. That's like going to Bhutan to buy Butane...

Silas




I'm going to be rich..... I just struck sugar in my back garden!

Avatar28
2002-Sep-18, 07:24 PM
So venus was once a comet huh? Damned big comet if you ask me...almost as big as the earth.

Kaptain K
2002-Sep-19, 04:33 PM
Sure, the late Mr. Velikovsky is a very well-known crank...
For a while, Velikovsky and Eric von Däniken (Chariots of the Gods) seemed to be competing for the title of "Crankiest of the Cranks".

Pretty much a dead heat! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

KarenS
2002-Sep-19, 04:48 PM
For a while, Velikovsky and Eric von Däniken (Chariots of the Gods) seemed to be competing for the title of "Crankiest of the Cranks".

Pretty much a dead heat! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

You don't happen to have a list of the Top Ten Cranks in the history of science, do you? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KarenS on 2002-09-19 12:49 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KarenS on 2002-09-19 12:49 ]</font>

GrapesOfWrath
2002-Sep-19, 05:25 PM
Have you seen The Museum of Hoaxes (http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/) or the Crank Menagerie (http://w4.lns.cornell.edu/~riehle/crank.html)?

KarenS
2002-Sep-19, 05:29 PM
Have you seen The Museum of Hoaxes (http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/) or the Crank Menagerie (http://w4.lns.cornell.edu/~riehle/crank.html)?

Those sites are fabulous! Thanks!

Matherly
2002-Sep-23, 03:12 PM
To address a favorite subject of mine...

Since the Crank Menagerie has a grouping for magic under it's list of cranks, and if Clarke's Law is true (Any sufficently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic), does this make anyone in possesion of a sufficently advanced technology a crank?

/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Edited because Carl is too big of a $%&^$ing doofus to keep Issac Asamov and Arthur C. Clarke straight. Sigh]
_________________
The poster formerly known as Carl Matherly

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Matherly on 2002-09-24 00:46 ]</font>

SeanF
2002-Sep-23, 04:07 PM
On 2002-09-23 11:12, Matherly wrote:
To address a favorite subject of mine...

Since the Crank Menagerie has a grouping for magic under it's list of cranks, and if Asomov's Law is true (Any sufficently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic), does this make anyone in possesion of a sufficently advanced technology a crank?

/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif



Nope, it just means they're indistinguishable from cranks. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

ToSeek
2002-Sep-23, 04:19 PM
On 2002-09-23 11:12, Matherly wrote:
To address a favorite subject of mine...

Since the Crank Menagerie has a grouping for magic under it's list of cranks, and if Asomov's Law is true (Any sufficently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic), does this make anyone in possesion of a sufficently advanced technology a crank?

/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif



That's Clarke's Law.

Avatar28
2002-Sep-23, 04:48 PM
On 2002-09-23 12:19, ToSeek wrote:


On 2002-09-23 11:12, Matherly wrote:
To address a favorite subject of mine...

Since the Crank Menagerie has a grouping for magic under it's list of cranks, and if Asomov's Law is true (Any sufficently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic), does this make anyone in possesion of a sufficently advanced technology a crank?

/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif



That's Clarke's Law.



Yeah, it was Sir Arthur C Clarke who said that. Then there's also the corollary to Clarke's Law: Any sufficently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Matherly
2002-Sep-24, 04:44 AM
D'OH!!!!

Rrrrrr... must...go...beat...self...as...peneance.

[horrid sounds as Carl engages in self torture, including the use of a little device we like to call "Mr. Thingy"]

Sigh.

nebularain
2002-Sep-24, 09:37 PM
On 2002-09-23 11:12, Matherly wrote:
Clarke's Law ... Any sufficently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


The Techno-Mages from B-5!

Geo3gh
2002-Sep-24, 11:59 PM
And of course you can turn Clarke's Law around. "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."

/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

MKR
2002-Sep-25, 03:36 AM
On 2002-09-24 17:37, nebularain wrote:


On 2002-09-23 11:12, Matherly wrote:
Clarke's Law ... Any sufficently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


The Techno-Mages from B-5!



They were magic though! It was i tell you!

Yeah, i'm nuts. But isn't everybody a little loco?

Spare Time Continuum
2002-Oct-11, 03:53 AM
Apparently this Velikovsky guy thinks Venus was once a comet expelled from Jupiter about 3500 years ago.


Oh, is THAT where comets come from? I thought "The Stork" brought them...