PDA

View Full Version : Genisis - Can we create a new planet ??



Scully
2003-Nov-20, 02:23 PM
Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone knew of any articles or had any thoughts, ideas, comments about how a lifeless planet could be transformed into one with an atmosphere, plantlife etc that could support human life.

The concept I am talking about is something a bit like the Star Trek movie ( I think ) that involved the Genisis project or those Sci Fi books, Red and Green Mars etc.

Any feedback, comments, ideas would be great.

Cheers,
Scully

QJones
2003-Nov-20, 03:52 PM
It's kinda simple actually. All you need is a photosynthetic organism, whose byproducts (waste) are useful to other types of life.

Earth used to have WAY more CO2 in the air, but early plant life replaced it with oxygen.

Of course, fungal terraforming is probably a slow process.

kashi
2003-Nov-20, 10:12 PM
I'm pretty sure this topic is on the same wavelength. It links to an article about chemical systems "evolving" into biological ones. The author of the article has joined the discussion to answer peoples' questions.

http://www.universetoday.com/forum/index.p...p?showtopic=980 (http://www.universetoday.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=980)

Hope this helps.

Kashi

Haglund
2003-Nov-20, 11:31 PM
Maybe one could use nanotechnology to terraform a planet? To melt ice, change the atmosphere and perhaps change the soil composition?

QJones
2003-Nov-21, 01:26 AM
Well, biology is currently our most advanced nanotechnology. The 'units' are self-replicating at the microscopic level!

Planetwatcher
2003-Nov-21, 08:18 AM
I don't think there is any kind of quick way like the Genisis torpedo from Star Trek.
And getting even just the hard material for a planet would be quite an effort.
But I suppose if it were possible to make some kind of super gravity bomb, one nearly as powerful as a small black hole but stoping short of that.
As well as a means to nullify the mass of a space body such as a large moon.

Use the mass nulifying proceedure to send it on a trijectory through the asteroid belt into a life zone orbit.
Detonate the gravity bomb on the moon while it is in the asteroid belt, you could get the planet. Then you have to produce a livible atmosphere, water, and organic material.
This sounds almost like Star Trek already. Heck, lets just build a Genisis torpedo and be done with it. :lol:

imported_ROB
2003-Nov-21, 08:38 AM
before we can send any microbes to another body the atmosphere would need to be adapted to warm it up. like mars its got no atmosphere and would be to cold, and the solar radiation would harm any new life that we might send.
theres one thing we are to good at on this planet that could help and thats polution that would thickern the atmosphere and warm it, perhaps even melt the ice locked up there. I have seen a documentary on terrerforming mars but cant find any links about it.
the only comparrison i can think of is a stargate eppisode when an alien life forces planet died and they sent a space craft to change the enviromet.
:blink:
the plot of the stargate eppisode (http://www.stargatefan.com/scripts/s4/scorched.html)

Matthew
2003-Nov-22, 07:55 AM
We could teraform Mars. You'd send massive 'factories' to Mars which would mine, and burn fossil fuels, creating CO2 (maybe 02 if you have such filters). Enough of these CO2 factories burning for many years would increase the atmospheric pressure, trapping more heat which would then melt the ice caps which contain water and C02. As more C02 was released temperature would go up faster and faster. Then when there is a high enough atmsopheric pressure strong plant life would be grown to increase O2 levels. Keep on adding more plant life as the temperature rises. And once the temperature goes above 0 degrees celcius average water would melt, creating rivers, for more plant life to be introduced. Eventually you could bring humans.

Maybe we could do the same things for other planets as well.

peterhuybregts
2003-Nov-22, 01:39 PM
Nice thought, I am pretty sure that what you fantasize about MUST be done within not even so much time in order to remain life/nature the way it's meant to be.

I consider the Universe in it's whole, as it is expanding, to be the source of every life & everything it does, far more than people (most) would expect.

If you consider that this planets holds far more life's/bodies than it is supposed to carry based on it's natural capacity than you might find the earth some kind of breeding place for Universal life, in wich I mean life on other planets. And at this moment planets we don't know might already be evolving parallel to our evolution in order to be ready in/on time for people/animal life to (re)start living upon.

And then.....if we evolved in living in what we now call outer space we probibly will even find or create the technology to make solar systems & their planets habital for life (wich we might even create)

In this, to not confuse you, I am overwhelmly secure that our way of reahcing space today (*NASA) will never work, for 1. Not every human can relate to space the way space wants to wich makes 2 the dimentinal worlds far more sensible than one might think of.

Think of it : you step into a dimention & through this dimention you reach another world. Impossible? I dare to swear you this is the reason why it (the Univers) exist.
Dimentions ? Any spiritist can tell you about 1 dimention for sure : the world where the dead live within.

Remember : you have a mind, a conciousness, an instinct even, but do you really know what for and what it is capable of.

This also means that whan you fantasize about life on or living on other planets you might be closer to the truth than you expect.

For example : one person, you, mostly only uses 10% of it's mind's capacity, the rest just functions mostly as what we call subconciousness, but I call it quite an area for Universal controll over it's own survaival.

Maybe (I am sure) are we. as intelligent as we are, the only way for the Universe to survive it's own existance, because it came to be, it's growing & knows no better than the feelings we have (emotions). Our search for heaven could be equal to the Universal need to balence/peace itsself. Why else are we locked within planets that move in ways that are decisive to our evolution. You can look at the human mind evolving according to planetarian schedules....this is not for nothing.


Peter Pan

Dave Mitsky
2003-Nov-24, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by matthew@Nov 22 2003, 07:55 AM
We could teraform Mars. You'd send massive 'factories' to Mars which would mine, and burn fossil fuels, creating CO2 (maybe 02 if you have such filters). Enough of these CO2 factories burning for many years would increase the atmospheric pressure, trapping more heat which would then melt the ice caps which contain water and C02. As more C02 was released temperature would go up faster and faster. Then when there is a high enough atmsopheric pressure strong plant life would be grown to increase O2 levels. Keep on adding more plant life as the temperature rises. And once the temperature goes above 0 degrees celcius average water would melt, creating rivers, for more plant life to be introduced. Eventually you could bring humans.

Maybe we could do the same things for other planets as well.
Recent evidence hints that Mars lack of a magnetic field may be the reason that it lost its atmosphere in the first place. If this is so any attempt at terraforming Mars would be a collosal waste of time and money.

I'm curious why you think that there are fossil fuels on Mars.

Dave Mitsky

Matthew
2003-Nov-24, 08:50 AM
Sorry about that, there may not be any fossil fuel. It would need some sort of burnable fuel, but you may need to import it from Earth.

kashi
2003-Nov-24, 08:47 PM
Minor problem!

starrman
2003-Nov-25, 05:31 AM
Recent evidence hints that Mars lack of a magnetic field may be the reason that it lost its atmosphere in the first place. If this is so any attempt at terraforming Mars would be a collosal waste of time and money.

Indeed. And perhaps more significantly, even if an atmosphere were created, the issue of unmitigated solar and cosmic radiation would persist in the absence of a magnetosphere to deflect it. If recent reports are correct, the earth's magnetic field may be weakening precipitously. While it is unlikely that this indicates the demise of the internal dynamo responsible for generating our magnetic field, a diminishing of strength and a drift of the dipole field could result in a significant increase in ground-level radiation. We may have a problem of creating a habitable planet right here on Terra, to say nothing of Mars.

Clear (and magnetically adequate) skies

Tinaa
2003-Nov-25, 11:08 PM
If we are going to terraform Mars we need to first figure out a way to heat up its core. That should get the magnet field going again. I don't think it has enough gravity to keep the atmosphere. I think there are probably many Earth-like planets out there and we won't have to terraform...if we can ever get out there!

GOURDHEAD
2003-Nov-26, 04:54 PM
By combining the masses of Pluto and Charon with Mars along with the minor moons of the gas giants we not only get enough mass to provide the gravity necessary to hold the atmosphere but also quite a bit of water (I hope not too much). We can use the larger non-gallilean moons of Jupiter and similar moons from the other giants to compose a large moon for Mars which will gravitationally flex Mars thereby generating internal heat in Mars and maybe melt its core where iron cobalt and nickle have accumulated in order to generate a planetary magnetic field. If we don't get a magnetic field this way, we can produce one by building a metallic cage structure (longitudinal conductors encirciling Mars) in orbit about Mars. Note that Pluto and the moons we would use are not of much use otherwise. Also Mercury is difficult to use where it is so close to the sun so we may want to move it to form a binary planet with Mars and use the medium mass moons of the giants to terraform Mercury also. Or we could just move Mercury to an orbit with semimajor axis between those of Venus and Earth and then clobber it with comets and icy moons. ;)

Now that we have learned how to do this, we should collect the asteroids with orbits inside that of Jupiter and a sufficient number of comets and construct a planet from scratch, so to speak, in an orbit just larger than that of the Earth to avoid uncomfortable mutual gravitational interactions. <_<

In the spirit of Asimov&#39;s Foundation series we then continue with the Kuiper belt and the Oort cloud--a developer&#39;s paradise&#33; B)

For more details on how to build a system capable (with some extrapolation) of accomplishing these feats, take a look at the extrasolar transportation thread in the Astronomy section. :rolleyes:

Planetwatcher
2003-Dec-01, 09:17 AM
By combining the masses of Pluto and Charon with Mars along with the minor moons of the gas giants we not only get enough mass to provide the gravity necessary to hold the atmosphere but also quite a bit of water (I hope not too much).
That would not be as much as one might think. Pluto is less then half the size of our moon, and Charon is almost a quarter of that. There are 8 other moons near or a little larger then Charon. After that the largest remaining moons are less then 20% of the size of Charon.

If your going to combine any other bodies with Mars, the best candidates are
1, Mercury, which has an iron core larger even the Earths.
2, Io of Jupiter, is fuming with volcanic activity and therefore must have a pretty hot core. It is also sizeable, somewhat larger then our Moon.
3, Europa of Jupiter, is slightly smaller then our Moon, but likely contains a significant amout of water.
4, Triton of Neptune, is thought to have an atmosphere.

These four if combined with Mars would be about 80% of the size of Earth.
If you want to get all the way to Earth size, you would need one more Galliean moon. But this is really not practical, so it&#39;s all for naught.

GOURDHEAD
2003-Dec-03, 03:37 PM
Planetwatcher

Thanks for the mass budget analysis. 80% of earth&#39;s mass at Mars&#39; distance is probably enough to retain an atmosphere and all that water that&#39;s been added. I like your idea of adding Io, but I&#39;d like to keep Europa, Ganymede and Callisto in their curent state for now. If any of these objects already has living organisms, such objects would be left in their current state. It&#39;s conceivable that most of the larger objects may have living organisms in subsurface aquifers. Microbes are tenacious and may present our most hazardous challenges as we venture off the earth.

I&#39;m still hoping to use Mercury for the core of a third inhabitable world and hoping that there&#39;s enough junk (otherwise hazardous to inhabited sites) inside the Kuiper belt to render the plan viable. You&#39;ve convinced me that there&#39;s not enough junk for a fourth planet. :angry:

Also, I agree the project is currently impractical and certainly extremely difficult, but then strong challenges make life more interesting. We need to summarize the difficulty, quantify the summary into solvable pieces, and proceed. ;)

Matthew
2003-Dec-04, 08:12 AM
How would the fact that Mars lacks a substantial magnetic field affect the planet&#39;s ability at containing an atmosphere?

GOURDHEAD
2003-Dec-04, 03:00 PM
Matthew:

If we can accomplish all the things needed to configure Mars as described, we can much more easily put up a magnetic shield around the new Mars. My guess is that, at Mars&#39; distance, not as much protection from the solar wind is needed. The trick is to get a strong enough gravitational field to prevent the atmosphere from leaving.

alt_cosmos
2004-Jan-02, 05:02 AM
Hi,

Interested in terraforming?

I&#39;ve been work on the idea for a while:

http://www.geocities.com/alt_cosmos/index.html

I&#39;d enjoy feedback

Michael

damienpaul
2004-Jan-04, 02:42 AM
hmmm, would it be worthwhile to add in some of the comets??