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rahuldandekar
2003-Nov-30, 10:43 AM
Hi.
Honestly, I think that there might be aliens, but we may not be able to contact them. The reasons are :

1) We invented radio astronomy 50 years ago. The time is negligible when compared to the 1 million years humans have taken in evolving. And we cannot deny the fact that the evolution of an intalligent conscious species could have happened a lot earlier, possibly even 50 million years earlier. So could have the evolution of aliens. So, we cannot say that an alien species will have radio astronomy at about the same time we have.

2) We see light in the range that we call 'visible light' as we are evolved that way. Aliens may not have evolved to even see light. They may communicate by somethings we aren't even aware of (!), as our evolution has not prepared us for it. It may even be that their perception of what we call 'light', 'sound' etc. is different from us. So, we may not be able to contact them.

This is what I think. What do You all do ?

Haglund
2003-Nov-30, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by rahuldandekar@Nov 30 2003, 10:43 AM
Hi.
Honestly, I think that there might be aliens, but we may not be able to contact them. The reasons are :

1) We invented radio astronomy 50 years ago. The time is negligible when compared to the 1 million years humans have taken in evolving. And we cannot deny the fact that the evolution of an intalligent conscious species could have happened a lot earlier, possibly even 50 million years earlier. So could have the evolution of aliens. So, we cannot say that an alien species will have radio astronomy at about the same time we have.
This is true, but I think that a species who had technology since a million years back or so would still pretty easily put together a few big powerful radiotelescopes if they want to contact more primitive species such as ourselves. In either case, the civilizations we will find through radiotechnology will probably be more advanced than us, since they could not be much more primitive.


2) We see light in the range that we call 'visible light' as we are evolved that way. Aliens may not have evolved to even see light. They may communicate by somethings we aren't even aware of (!), as our evolution has not prepared us for it. It may even be that their perception of what we call 'light', 'sound' etc. is different from us. So, we may not be able to contact them.

This is what I think. What do You all do ?

I agree that aliens could be extremely different from us, in how they communicate with each other, and what senses they have. However, I wonder if some sort of sight is necessary to develop technology?

rahuldandekar
2003-Dec-02, 05:22 AM
I agree that aliens could be extremely different from us, in how they communicate with each other, and what senses they have. However, I wonder if some sort of sight is necessary to develop technology?

I did not say that sight is necessary to develop technology.
I just wanted to say that if they develop technology, it would be very different from ours, and the two may never meet.

all_isone
2003-Dec-02, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by rahuldandekar@Nov 30 2003, 10:43 AM
... we cannot say that an alien species will have radio astronomy at about the same time we have.

.... . Aliens may not have evolved to even see light. They may communicate by somethings we aren't even aware of (!), as our evolution has not prepared us for it. It may even be that their perception of what we call 'light', 'sound' etc. is different from us.
i agree this is what i've been always thinking about

Matthew
2003-Dec-04, 07:36 AM
Aliens might be able to see in UV or Infrared light. Maybe they can see electricty.

We base what life has to be by what is on Earth, so yeas, it could be completely different.

eggplant
2003-Dec-05, 01:55 AM
Technology has evolved to allow us to see things in many ways. Infrared, MRI, Radar, any of which could be mimiced by a biological system, some of which mimic biological systems... We have also developed ways to be invisible to those systems. It is safe to assume that any advanced civilzation of biologic forms we can recognize, will allow us to see them when they are good and ready... If they are still bumbling through their interstellar development like we are. We may find each other... See SETI thread...
Key point is we will probably find those like us first ... What if the earth is really a sentient force and we are the plague? But we can't see nor hear the communication? A different definition of intelligent life would be required. Right now I think the standard is if they can't call us on our cell phones they aren't intelligent enough to consider sentient. (yet another thread) I disagree, ala Gregory Bateson (coiner of "double bind" and cybernetics ((ipso facto computers)) godfather) I believe that all forms of life have sentience of a variety we are only beginning to decipher... Old enough to remember the "secret life of plants"? Look it up... :P It's an eye opener... :D
As per the radio astronomy issue, It depends how far away they are/were if they went through that stage. Although still miniscule in universe time, there's at least millions of light years out there that some civilization may have produced enough radio noise for us to detect if we are lucky...

Littlemews
2003-Dec-11, 03:38 AM
Yea alien do exist and our human being also trying to communicate with them too, but because it costs too much to do this kinda stuff, I remember they send signal to other place from earth ;) but no response, then they just listen to signals right now, cuz its cheap to do this kinda stuff :P

:lol: My teacher saids, there are 3 answers for this kinda evidence:

1. Because those alien is smart, and they try to send signal to us as well, but too far away, we cant recieve it

2. We are listening to the signal now, but those alien is also listening to the signal as well, so if no one sending signals, then both of us and the alien cant hear anything from each other :lol:

3. They are too lazy to do this stuff, they just stay at home and enjoy life :P

kashi
2003-Dec-12, 11:08 AM
We are sending signals out into space all the time Littlemews. TV transmissions for example. Aliens 70 or so light years away should be able to watch the Berlin Olympic games now.

Haglund
2003-Dec-12, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by rahuldandekar@Dec 2 2003, 05:22 AM

I agree that aliens could be extremely different from us, in how they communicate with each other, and what senses they have. However, I wonder if some sort of sight is necessary to develop technology?

I did not say that sight is necessary to develop technology.
I just wanted to say that if they develop technology, it would be very different from ours, and the two may never meet.
I admit that it is possible. It all depends on what course their technological evolution goes. But if they are investigating the world around them scientifically, sooner or later they will understand electromagnetic radiation etc. Maybe there are other ways to communicate though. I mean, on a basic level.

Haglund
2003-Dec-12, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by kashi@Dec 12 2003, 11:08 AM
We are sending signals out into space all the time Littlemews. TV transmissions for example. Aliens 70 or so light years away should be able to watch the Berlin Olympic games now.
And something like that would require very very sensitive recievers, since it was a very local broadcast for Berlin only, I think?

Matthew
2003-Dec-13, 02:55 AM
And something like that would require very very sensitive recievers, since it was a very local broadcast for Berlin only, I think?

Alien races could have extremely sensitive recievers.


QUOTE (rahuldandekar @ Dec 2 2003, 05:22 AM)
QUOTE
I agree that aliens could be extremely different from us, in how they communicate with each other, and what senses they have. However, I wonder if some sort of sight is necessary to develop technology?



I did not say that sight is necessary to develop technology.
I just wanted to say that if they develop technology, it would be very different from ours, and the two may never meet.


I admit that it is possible. It all depends on what course their technological evolution goes. But if they are investigating the world around them scientifically, sooner or later they will understand electromagnetic radiation etc. Maybe there are other ways to communicate though. I mean, on a basic level.


Aliens may be able to naturally see different wavelengths of the EM spectrum. They might be able to see more of the EM spectrum than we do. We only see from 400 nm to 700 nm of the EM spectrum, which is only a small amount. If an alien race could see more, or different wavelengths, their technology would take a different course to ours. Especially in astronomy.

QJones
2003-Dec-13, 10:53 PM
I remember seeing (I believe on the SETI website, maybe NASA) that Earth's broadcasts are strong enough such that we could detect them 40 light years away (i.e., our SETI array could hear us that far away). And the signals we sent 40 years ago were strong enough (and probably getting stronger).

It's not very big, but it's certainly okay, considering we've only been broadcasting a short time

Littlemews
2003-Dec-14, 01:25 AM
Myabe the alien was living like 41 light yrs from Earth, so 40 light yrs cant reach them :lol:

Matthew
2003-Dec-16, 03:46 AM
Every year we emit more and more broadcasts into space, although they are not intended for outer space the signals would be getting stronger and stronger. Also aliens probly have sensors far superior to what SETI has available to them.

Littlemews
2003-Dec-16, 07:16 PM
I have thinking about this for a long time :lol: , what if there is a)n) alien exist, and they come to Earth (Just one single Alien), then here's the problem:

1. As we know, our human being is kinda crusious about Alien, so they might kill them and take their body for study outer space object.

2. Usually its military that control everything, so they might think this is a top secret, and make up something for excuse to let the whole world know : there is no alien come to earth before.

3. They come to kill us :lol:

damienpaul
2003-Dec-17, 08:18 AM
or 4. they land in Alice Springs and is immediately assimilated into the Todd tavern Hotel and are never seen again........

StarLab
2005-Apr-20, 04:40 PM
Well, what are the chances they would contact us if they knew we existed and had the tools to do so?

Midnight_Toker
2005-Apr-20, 09:38 PM
good point starlab. Just think, their could be billions of civilizations in the universe, and there could be an alien species that knows this for a fact. the aliens advanced enough to know would only be concerned about species as good or greater than them, they would have nothign to learn from us, that would benefit them.

suntrack2
2005-May-03, 02:49 PM
they are extra intelligent, they are looking busy with other developed planets, they are getting much response from the other planets where the life is in existence besides earth, then why they will contact the earth people,

have you seen the topic :if alien found what will be their language, they are understood that their language cannot be read by the people of earth till doday, that's why they gone to the other similar planet, may be? Kai rahul khare kee nahi?

Jakenorrish
2005-May-03, 07:41 PM
In questions like this, I always answer by saying the following.

We cannont disprove any idea or reasoning on this as yet. However, we have as yet absolutely no indication, let alone any proof that life exists beyond the Earth. We can say that life may exist on Mars or under the sea of Europa or outside our solar system, but as yet there is no scientific evidence to support any of these theories. Only speculation, backed up by indicators of the required molecules present in Mars' case.

I for one think that there probably is life out there somewhere, but that life is far more thinly spread than we could hope, for us to be able to make 2 way communication possible. I also think that any life out there will be so different than we could ever imagine. We could well be very different ourselves from most 'normal' life in the universe, who knows?!

I have no proof of this, it is only gut instinct. Therefore, I totally respect anyone who disputes it! Always a good topic for arguement, but until people can prove their exotic theories on alien life with scientific evidence, then I have very little time for them.

GOURDHEAD
2005-May-04, 02:03 PM
We can say that life may exist on Mars or under the sea of Europa or outside our solar system, but as yet there is no scientific evidence to support any of these theories. I agree there is as yet no hard evidence. Let's review the soft evidence, more accurately, "speculation fuel":

1. The laws of physics including those that determine the nature of chemical bonds have been observed through spectral analysis to be the same throughout the observable universe.

2. The required metallicity including the abundance of water has been observed to exist throughout the universe.

3. Planets have been observed to have formed/located around a number of stars.

4. Quite a few carbon based molecules including some similar to DNA/RNA building blocks have been observed in many locations within the MW.

5. Our existence and the existence of Earth's biota over the last 3.5 billion years demonstrate that carbon based life is both abiologically and biologically evolvable and durable. My guess is that it out competes any other froms of life that evolution may experiment with.

6. It is reasonable to expect that we will begin to infest our section of the MW with some portion of Earth's biota within a few hundred years.

7. The survival value of intelligence and its daughter, technical competence, has been demonstrated and it's not a big stretch to expect that the forces of evolution have emplaced technically competent critters all over the universe.

Feel free to challenge these points or to add some that I have overlooked.

Jakenorrish
2005-May-05, 08:06 AM
Totally agree with your 'speculation fuel'!

Molecular
2005-May-05, 03:41 PM
The obvious evidence of life on earth, is essentially, hard evidence of life beyond it. ;)

angusangusok
2005-May-09, 07:52 AM
i think if there are other intelligent in our space

they are still finding us

so, we should not give up!!!

if some day they've found us,

they could hv the ability to communicate with us because they are more clever than us

suntrack2
2005-May-09, 11:26 AM
they are clever and having ability to contact us, angusangusok given a clue of the intellectual sky species apart from earth,
in my opinion they are on the farthest distance from earth and hence neighther they couldnot contact us nor we could still on today, but we are so optimist about such contact.

sunil

Sixbender
2005-May-10, 05:53 PM
Alien, shmalien.
1.
We used to recognize the capicity for animal intellegence by brain mass and degree to witch the brain is convoluted. Later, we found animals on earth with brains both larger and more complex than ours, and the animals have demonstrated the ability to communicate with each other. But we can not communicate with them in any conventional way. To assume that the animal is "less intelligent" than us is arrogance in the face of failure. The cetations live in an alien, gravity free world, and we have so little basis for a common core experience that they might as well live on Europa.
2.
Cultures on planet Earth do not all embrace technology. Some actually despise it. It would also be arrogance to say that these cultures are "less intellegent" because they are not choosing technology as their symbol of achievement.
3.
To assume technology is a natural development is unfounded by evidence.
In fact, perhaps the opposite. Of all the species that have ever lived on Earth (quite a number) there is no evidence of anyone/anything being able to manipulate the electron prior to the recent age.

So, there's a lot of "ifs" involved with life...

IF live evolves elsewhere (rare and very distant, considering the evidence).
If it develops into an intelligent tool using species, (very uncommon, statically).
If it discovers and desires to implement technology (the most unlikely natural development in the face of chronological evidence).
If it survives long enough, and if it uses radio waves...

Let's look at what is observable, and do the math. It is most likely that any technological species that has evolved is a very long, long way away.
Farther away in electromagnetic time than the history of our technology.

I could be that the UFO is the modern equivalent to dragons and unicorns.
There seems to be a whole lot of wishful thinking replacing observation, sort of faith over science. The topic of intelligent tecno aliens has become far more of a religion than a science.

rodonnell
2005-May-11, 01:16 PM
Hi Guy's,

I like the direction the discussion is heading, a guy named Frank Drake in 1961 asked many of the same questions you are discussing, he even formulated it into an equation, known funnily enough as the Drake Equation:

The Drake Equation was developed by as a way to focus on the factors which determine how many intelligent, communicating civilizations there are in our galaxy. The Drake Equation is:

N = N* fp ne fl fi fc fL
The equation can really be looked at as a number of questions:

N* represents the number of stars in the Milky Way Galaxy
Question: How many stars are in the Milky Way Galaxy?
Answer: Current estimates are 100 billion.

fp is the fraction of stars that have planets around them
Question: What percentage of stars have planetary systems?
Answer: Current estimates range from 20% to 50%.

ne is the number of planets per star that are capable of sustaining life
Question: For each star that does have a planetary system, how many planets are capable of sustaining life?
Answer: Current estimates range from 1 to 5.

fl is the fraction of planets in ne where life evolves
Question: On what percentage of the planets that are capable of sustaining life does life actually evolve?
Answer: Current estimates range from 100% (where life can evolve it will) down to close to 0%.

fi is the fraction of fl where intelligent life evolves
Question: On the planets where life does evolve, what percentage evolves intelligent life?
Answer: Estimates range from 100% (intelligence is such a survival advantage that it will certainly evolve) down to near 0%.

fc is the fraction of fi that communicate
Question: What percentage of intelligent races have the means and the desire to communicate?
Answer: 10% to 20%

fL is fraction of the planet's life during which the communicating civilizations live
Question: For each civilization that does communicate, for what fraction of the planet's life does the civilization survive?
Answer: This is the toughest of the questions. If we take Earth as an example, the expected lifetime of our Sun and the Earth is roughly 10 billion years. So far we've been communicating with radio waves for less than 100 years. How long will our civilization survive? Will we destroy ourselves in a few years like some predict or will we overcome our problems and survive for millennia? If we were destroyed tomorrow the answer to this question would be 1/100,000,000th. If we survive for 10,000 years the answer will be 1/1,000,000th.

When all of these variables are multiplied together when come up with:
N, the number of communicating civilizations in the galaxy.

The real value of the Drake Equation is not in the answer itself, but the questions that are prompted when attempting to come up with an answer. Obviously there is a tremendous amount of guess work involved when filling in the variables. As we learn more from astronomy, biology, and other sciences, we'll be able to better estimate the answers to the above questions.

Credit for the explaination of the Drake Equation should go to www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/drake_equation.html

So,... how many intelligent, communicating civilizations do you think there are in our galaxy at this very minute, there is obviously only one right answer. (and I do ever so much hope it is more than one.)

Regards


Rod

aeolus
2005-May-11, 08:27 PM
I don't doubt there is life out there in the universe, but like Sixbender mentioned, when it comes to finding them, the biggie for me is whether or not they know about EM waves and if they use them or not.

dougreed
2005-May-14, 03:29 AM
hi, it seems sixbender is right in his thought that any 'serious' alien life discussion is... "far more a religion than a science". Science is based on fact, observable, reproducable fact. And the fact is, no proof of life outside earth exsists. I am not saying don't look !!! :D There is no proof that we are alone. There is also no proof that we are not the first self aware creatures orbiting a star. :( But to speculate so stongly as to believe what you, or someone else might theorize, is to cross over into a kind of religious faith. Example, check out point #5 in GOURDHEADs post- ..."other forms of life that evolution may experiment with..." this implies that evolution has an agenda or purpose. Granting it a measure of a directive, intelligent motive...a personality. Be careful, is science your religion or tool? Being open minded means being open to the idea that, hey, I could be all wrong about this, what's your thought - not just, I'm pretty sure I'm right and here's why. So, I'm pretty sure I'm right!!! :o , just kidding, these are just my thoughts, thanks...this is part of what makes 'life' so special, that we can actually speculate about life in a coherent way and be understood by another life form...see-ya, doug

GOURDHEAD
2005-May-14, 11:49 AM
Example, check out point #5 in GOURDHEADs post- ..."other forms of life that evolution may experiment with..." this implies that evolution has an agenda or purpose. Granting it a measure of a directive, intelligent motive...a personality. Thanks for pointing out an ambiguity arising from how that was stated. I mean to imply neither consciousness nor intelligence has been, up to now, a driver of evolution; in fact I suspect neither. As somewhat random events determine how a river may be taken along various courses through its delta as storms, the accumulation of sediment, etc., mindlessly cause it to change course, so is evolution caused to proceed mindlessly through a larger set af randomly occurring interacting events with the principal driver of selforganization remaining the physical characteristics of the valences of the chemical elements that constitute living organisms. The mutual affinities of the members of this set of elements is likely to trump all others causing the universe to be "filled" with carbon in water based life.

Quantum Complex
2005-Aug-25, 08:23 PM
I think it's inevitable that if we meet another species we will war.

Our Bible states us as built in the form of god, and their Bible may too. This means that they may look on us as lessers just as Colonial Americans viewed the Native Americans.

ausduck1
2005-Sep-18, 11:08 PM
or 4. they land in Alice Springs and is immediately assimilated into the Todd tavern Hotel and are never seen again........

Who's to say that hasn't already happened??? :D

ausduck1
2005-Sep-18, 11:48 PM
I think it's inevitable that if we meet another species we will war.

Our Bible states us as built in the form of god, and their Bible may too. This means that they may look on us as lessers just as Colonial Americans viewed the Native Americans.

An interesting notion. But will aliens have religion as we know it?? It's interesting that popular thought (just look at the media, movies, TV etc) all have aliens as basically humanoid. Then there is the assumption that, if they look a little like us then they must think/act a little like us. Of course, war may not be an option, Earth just may be in the way of that intergalactic bypass and we didn't get the 'vacate the premises' notice. :)

How do we define life, and then intelligence? I believe that we do it by comparing all theories to the only 'standard' we know - carbon-based life on our own planet. I don't know if we are 'alone' in the universe. Who's to say that there isn't silicon-based life out there. But I do know that it's fun being part of SETI-at-Home and explaining that to my nephews and nieces :)
The best part about the search for 'extraterrestrial' life is the imagination, discussion and debate ;)

Ilya
2005-Sep-19, 12:47 AM
Every year we emit more and more broadcasts into space, although they are not intended for outer space the signals would be getting stronger and stronger.
Actually, the reverse is true. With proliferation of cable and fiber optic communications, Earth emits LESS radio-frequency energy into space every year. Note that the most powerful TV emitters today are geosynchronous satellites, and they emit only downward -- toward Earth, with no leakage into space.

genebujold
2005-Sep-19, 12:55 AM
Hi.
Honestly, I think that there might be aliens, but we may not be able to contact them. The reasons are :

1) We invented radio astronomy 50 years ago. The time is negligible when compared to the 1 million years humans have taken in evolving. And we cannot deny the fact that the evolution of an intalligent conscious species could have happened a lot earlier, possibly even 50 million years earlier. So could have the evolution of aliens. So, we cannot say that an alien species will have radio astronomy at about the same time we have.

2) We see light in the range that we call 'visible light' as we are evolved that way. Aliens may not have evolved to even see light. They may communicate by somethings we aren't even aware of (!), as our evolution has not prepared us for it. It may even be that their perception of what we call 'light', 'sound' etc. is different from us. So, we may not be able to contact them.

This is what I think. What do You all do ?

Excellent points.

Also, consider:

1. Less than 1/40 Millionth of the time live on our planet has been in existance has that life been broadcasting in the non-visible EM spectrum.

2. The vast majority of life on our planet (and probably throughout space) communicate chemically and visually (touch, color, body position). Very few actually communicate using sound.

3. The greater the evolution, the higher the frequency (or technology). Any scientist of the 60s listening to digital spread spectrum radio energy (assuming 2.4 GHz receivers were even available then!) would have heard nothing but what appears to be random noise.

This is why I have a problem with SETI. It's not looking for random noise, but patterns. Yet higher technology comms will probably not sound like they did in Independance Day, but rather, more like pure static - again, if we can "hear" them at all. I strongly suspect that higher tech comms are probably using something more along the lines of tangled particles, or, more probably, something we won't discover/imagine for many years.

Just look how far radio comms have come in just fifty years!

dita
2005-Sep-22, 03:47 PM
Interesting article in Space.com and how they are lookin into ways to seek a "Cosmic Rosetta Stone" here it is: http://space.com/searchforlife/050922_seti_thurs.html

dgoodpasture2005
2005-Oct-16, 08:46 AM
life in the universe... of course. 100 billion stars in our galaxy alone.... 100 billion galaxies in the size of a pinhead picked up by the hubble... each containing 100 billion or more stars... pffft... why are we aven arguing the existence? just 'cause no tangible evidence? what about the bible? does that not prove intelligent life in the universe? ;) if you disagree.. or this hurts your religius beliefs... read Ezekial... sure it exists!! it's nonsense to say otherwise! with calculations like 1,000,000,000,000,000,000(10,000)*1,000,000,000,00 0,000,000(10,000)*1,000,000,000,000,000,000(10,000 )*1,000,000,000,000,000,000(10,000)..... how can there be no life? geez God, what a waste of time! you create this whole big massive universe, make us explore it.. and leave us nothing to find...

Reina
2005-Oct-16, 05:23 PM
good point starlab. Just think, their could be billions of civilizations in the universe, and there could be an alien species that knows this for a fact. the aliens advanced enough to know would only be concerned about species as good or greater than them, they would have nothign to learn from us, that would benefit them.

OK lets say that our civilization knew for a fact that there were hundreds of other civilizations out there, everytime we found a new one I would think that we would have to make contact with them to find out how primitive or advanced their technology was, and then placed into some kind of geographical mapping system so we know where their location is (kinda like how we have our entire planet mapped out). But if they are VERY VERY advanced I could see how they probably wouldn't give a crap about an up and coming civilzation since like you said, we have nothing to offer.

MDNOT
2007-May-21, 05:43 AM
Were are nothing of interest to other advanced forms! other then to see if were a threat to them. Like we have nothing to give them! there so advanced there nothing they could give us, in this trying time were in. How could they show us! also who owns this experiment. And what if they come back! only to see some other advanced forms have messed were there creation!! lets hope everything leaves us alone because if they do come in force and we don't like it how are we to get rid of them?

Noclevername
2007-May-21, 06:39 AM
The obvious evidence of life on earth, is essentially, hard evidence of life beyond it. ;)


Actually, by the definition of "hard evidence" it's not.

GOURDHEAD
2007-May-21, 01:44 PM
lets hope everything leaves us alone because if they do come in force and we don't like it how are we to get rid of them? By building and using the power beam generators in solar orbit about the sun inside the orbit of Mercury as close to the sun as technology will allow. We need to get hopping and hoping they wait until we have some PBGs operational.

transreality
2007-May-21, 11:21 PM
one aspect that could differ between alien soecies that could affect communication is their relative time scale of operation. Michael Noonan raised this point about AI. If they communicate rapidly their microbursts will look like noise to use, and if they communicate on much longer timescales, we wouldn't detect the modulation. regardless of distance, signal strength etc

cbacba
2007-May-22, 12:39 AM
I think it's inevitable that if we meet another species we will war.

Our Bible states us as built in the form of god, and their Bible may too. This means that they may look on us as lessers just as Colonial Americans viewed the Native Americans.


It's not inevitable, however, when you find fungus growing in your bathroom wall, you tend to eliminate it and when you find a fire ant mound in your back yard, you tend to eliminate it. Considering the species might be more like a weed than a worm, our encounters could even be somewhat worse.

As for communicating, I've yet to hear of anyone even attempting to communicate a peace treaty with a hive of killer bees.

Considering the american indians were pretty much stone age for the most part in north america, it's understandable that they tended to treat them worse than they did the french - at least most of the time.