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Fraser
2003-Dec-12, 11:10 PM
SUMMARY: Scientists think that Saturn's moon Titan holds many answers to the early evolution of life in our Solar System. When NASA's Cassini spacecraft arrives at the Ringed Planet, it will release the ESA's Huygens probe which will help analyze the primordial soup of material on Titan's surface. The spacecraft will help determine which organic molecules and their quantities are present in moon's atmosphere. The conditions on Titan have long since passed on Earth; by gathering data there, scientists can help build up a better understanding of what happened during our planet's early history.

View full article (http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/titan_important_life)

What do you think about this story? Post your comments below.

Littlemews
2003-Dec-14, 04:41 AM
For me, I dont really think there is life exist on Titian :P , because its impossible...with thick atmosphere, saturn's radiation, and the other elements...etc

DippyHippy
2003-Dec-14, 09:58 PM
I don't think it's impossible because they say Titan's a frozen version of the primordial Earth - but I don't think they'll find anything...

tycho1981
2003-Dec-14, 11:28 PM
Me too, but I still hope cause it's nice moon with most life possible (then mars!) in our solar system. I mean this is not for human but for microbe life.

I'm curious to a pictures at surface of titan too :D

GOURDHEAD
2003-Dec-15, 02:34 AM
I believe life on Titan is not only possible but probable; however the probability is small--not something I'd bet on. If the tidal interaction with Saturn is strong enough to generate heat in the interior of Titan, or if enough uranium, thorium, or plutonium make up its interior, the conditions for life are more likely. The very interesting find on the surface of Titan could be a large set of pre-biotic chemicals. If it's not already hosting living organisms, the Huygens probe will introduce some for it to host in spite of our efforts to the contrary.

The Meal
2003-Dec-15, 02:18 PM
Wasn't the point to check out the organic conditions and the formation of the organic molecules which *could* lead to life down the road? I didn't think anyone was dropping Huygens in the hope of conking a Titanian on the head with the probe or anything.

~The Meal

damienpaul
2003-Dec-16, 04:22 AM
Nothing is really impossible...who knows Titan, Europa, Mars etc may harbour some amazing life forms even if they are microbes! Maybe we'll be able to learn something of ourselves...

Damo

BranSven
2003-Dec-23, 11:21 PM
It is truly humorous how often the logic of science in the arena of origins contradicts itself. One of the biggest hammers the evolutionist uses to attempt to discredit the prodigious and convincing evidence amassed by creation science is the very error that those who adhere to the THEORY of evolution all to often fall into. To start from a certain paradigm and work to prove it true, disregarding evidence to the contrary, rather than working to find the truth with an open mind is the most effective way to follow a logical process to the WRONG conclusion.

In this article, there is not even a glimmer of thought given to the fact that what might be learned on Titan, may be detrimental to the theory of “primordial soup”, and the evolution of life from Goo to You by way of the Zoo.

I can PROVE logically to anyone who cares to discuss the matter with me that the THEORY of evolution has no scientific foundation at all. I am not a scientist, I am a baker, but I would be willing to support this statement regardless of the expertise of any skeptic who would care to challenge the simple facts.

Let us remember that evolution IS a theory and cannot be scientifically proven to be true.

damienpaul
2003-Dec-24, 02:09 AM
I have no doubt that there are holes in the theory of evolution and know (and teach it as such) that evolution is a theory.

You are speaking to the converted

Guest_Faulkner
2003-Dec-24, 05:12 AM
I can PROVE logically to anyone who cares to discuss the matter with me that the THEORY of evolution has no scientific foundation at all. I am not a scientist

Ain't you contradicting yourself there, BranSven?

Just like how the words "Christian science" are a contradiction and shouldn't ever be used together??

Evolutionary theory is the best explanation we have. Nowadays there is a HELLUVA lot of progress being made in DNA research that supports it, too.

Why are some people so scared of it? Is it because we share a common ancestry with the apes? Hell, that's totally plausible to me! The ape-like behaviour of the human race is quite obvious, don't we all agree?

Has anybody seen the docco "Koko the Talking Gorilla"? You can't tell me we're not close cousins!!!

Fraser
2003-Dec-24, 05:35 AM
My finger is poised on the "Close Topic" button. Keep this away from becoming a religious conversation.

damienpaul
2003-Dec-24, 06:27 AM
lets not get this topic closed, cause its a good one!

Can someone give me a full bio on Titan - is it true it has the triple state of methane as Earth has the triple state of water?

BranSven
2003-Dec-24, 10:21 AM
Don't want to stir things up, but I would like to respond to questions put to me. Then I am more than willing to drop it.

As we know, theories of science are built upon certain facts that are known to be true, coupled with other ideas, which are either believed to be true, or considered probable, but which cannot be proven. The weak point of a theory then, must lie in those concepts that are not fact, but conjecture. It follows that a theory dependant upon speculation for its very foundation would naturally be the most vulnerable to skepticism and the easiest to invalidate. The axiom of a chain being only as strong as its weakest link holds true here, if the basic assumptions of a theory are destroyed, it has no foundation, and the principles of deduction come into play – when the impossible has been eliminated, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. In the light of these presuppositions, let us consider the controversial subject of the origin of life.

Many have long held creationism in contempt, calling it a venture in faith, which should be confined to the figurative pursuits of religion, and certainly not science. In a way, these accusations are valid. The Theory of Special Creation does have one overwhelming hole, one insurmountable problem, one critical chink in its armor, one great flaw: And that is, the existence of God. For you see, if God does not exist, then the concept of creation becomes totally ludicrous, utterly ridiculous; it must be relegated to the realm of lunacy, or myth. But, if God does exist, even without the preponderance of evidence leaving little doubt that there must be an intelligent mind behind our universe, there is no problem insurmountable for the creationist, no issue which cannot be addressed with that all encompassing - but God…

Well, the Theory of Evolution has a similar weakness. The great weakness of the theory of evolution is: The existence of the cosmos, specifically the existence of earth. Our blue jewel of a planet has often been marveled at as incredible in its near perfect conditions for the support of life. It is indeed the most essential prerequisite to the evolution of life, for you see, without a conducive place for life to evolve, evolution becomes impossible, even from the perspective of the advocates of the theory. Hence the huge effort put forth to find another place, (like Titan), that has these qualities. Without addressing this one tenuous detail, avoided so judiciously by the supreme minds of our day, the great bastion of atheism must be viewed at best as an incomplete hypothesis, not pseudo fact as it has been force-fed to million by the institutions of learning in our world today.

So, where did the earth come from? Give me a logically viable answer to that one, and I will rethink my entire position on origins. Ask any evolutionist, and they will all tell you the same thing, “The Big Bang”! Now, let us set aside for the time being, the physical and mathematical impossibilities of explosions creating order, and merely address the one simple question that any school kid with an inquiring mind would ask: “What “banged” in “The Big Bang”? The answer given always seems to be some variation of: “Well there was some gas and the dust that smashed into each other billions and billions of years ago…blah, blah, blah”. Lets take that back a step, “Well where did that come from?” And keep taking it back; what about that, and that, and that? Until finally, you will always arrive at the same answer…WE DON’T KNOW. Try it with anyone at all from your lowly high school teacher, to the greatest professor in the land; it will always be the same – WE DON’T KNOW! Wait, wait…you mean to tell me that this great standard of science upon which the whole worldview of Humanism is founded, is based on FAITH? It is mind-boggling; Evolution’s very keystone is based on faith in YOU DON’T KNOW! While the beliefs of Special Creation are based on faith in the Almighty and All-knowing God.

Is it possible to be intellectually honest with yourself and let that much uncertainty control your worldview? It might be argued that an equal amount of faith is required to believe in God, I beg to differ, that is an obstacle those who adhere to the reality of a Creator have already hurdled. It is the proponents of a “purely scientific” approach that have rejected faith as having any role in science, that will be sent reeling by the undeniable truth that faith must play a part, or their entire theory must be discarded. The only question remaining is not if faith is requisite, but rather where should one’s faith lie? Even more revolutionary, the fact is, we are not being forced to choose between faith in God or Chance, instead the decision must be made to place our faith in God, or faith in NOTHING. There is no other option that I can see.

Why should the introduction of a VIABLE alternative perspective be branded a “conversation on religion”? The possible discoveries that might be made on Titan are of no less interest to those of us who have weighed the facts and chosen a different conclusion.

Dan Luna
2003-Dec-24, 11:36 AM
Well, these conversations on religion tend to just play with words and never reach any conclusion, but get people wound up defending their own views. Intellectual honesty is really admitting you don't know and leaving it at that. You might take some theory as a working hypothesis until more evidence comes to light, but that's not the same as believing it to be literally true. The really interesting thing about Titan is that people have ideas that conditions might be unusual there and may have led to the formation of organic compounds, but nobody knows for sure, so it's going to be great fun finding out. Many surprising things were discovered by Voyager 2, such as the geysers on Triton, that scientists all thought would just be a frozen moon. Really we're very lucky to be living in this time when so many new things are being found out.

damienpaul
2003-Dec-25, 03:37 AM
i concur, it is exciting to be able to see what Titan is all about!! Could someone please supply me with a link or something so that I may find out all there is currently known about the satellite?

Littlemews
2003-Dec-25, 04:13 AM
;) ;) ;) let see where is the link..oh :lol: :lol: here
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/cassini/

damienpaul
2003-Dec-25, 04:19 AM
thank you for that, I'll check it out

Guest_Faulkner
2003-Dec-25, 11:11 AM
Whether God exists or not has nothing to do with it. The universe seems to operate on laws of physics that can be logically comprehended by the human brain (maybe other animal brains too, given time!?). Things don't just happen "miraculously".


Intellectual honesty is really admitting you don't know and leaving it at that

I agree. I'm agnostic. I just don't know what caused the Big Bang, whether it was a fluke "vacuum fluctuation" (as can be mathematically demonstrated) or the result of some intelligent supra-cosmic will. Same with evolution. Does life really evolve randomly, via genetic mutation & survival adaptation etc, or is there some design or purpose behind it all? I cannot believe the human race just "popped" into existence on this planet from thin air...(Unless we were planted here by aliens??)...maybe life is so common, so "part-and-parcel" of the physical, evolving universe, that it's inevitable!? Maybe we should consider the universe as a whole as a living entity...and we are it's awareness!?

BranSven, maybe there's no "God" as such, but multiple "Gods"! (In fact, the original biblical word for "God" is "Elohim", which is a plural word!).

I agree, I don't see why this post should be censored. It's friendly debate, not hostile argument. And relevant issues, too! (Can you get MORE relevant than this?).

damienpaul
2003-Dec-25, 02:37 PM
It certainly is not hostile, but the rules clearly state no religion