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Alan G. Archer
2002-Sep-27, 01:50 PM
Patrick J. Kiger wrote in his Alien Chasers (http://tlc.discovery.com/convergence/aliens/articles/chasers_hoagland.html) profile of Richard C. Hoagland that Hoagland earned an undergraduate degree in astronomy (from an unnamed school).

Is this credible information?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alan G. Archer on 2002-09-27 09:53 ]</font>

Valiant Dancer
2002-Sep-27, 02:24 PM
On 2002-09-27 09:50, Alan G. Archer wrote:
Patrick J. Kiger wrote in his Alien Chasers (http://tlc.discovery.com/convergence/aliens/articles/chasers_hoagland.html) profile of Richard C. Hoagland that Hoagland earned an undergraduate degree in astronomy (from an unnamed school).

Is this credible information?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alan G. Archer on 2002-09-27 09:53 ]</font>


The only thing that Hoagland earned that I can find is the 1997 Ig Nobel Prize in Astronomy from Harvard University.

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/1997/10.16/IgnominiousIgNo.html

He also claims to be the former Curator of
Astronomy and Space Science at the Springfield Museum of Science,
Springfield, Mass. When this institution was contacted they wrote back "Thank you for your inquiry about Richard Hoagland. I have been trying to track down the information you requested. We have been unable to find a personnel record on anyone of that name."

http://www.aliensonearth.com/misc/1999/apr/d21-001.shtml

Alan G. Archer
2002-Oct-03, 11:05 AM
If it is true, as Kiger claims, that Richard C. Hoagland earned an undergraduate degree in astronomy, was it a Bachelor of Science degree? Is it too much to ask which college or university awarded him with this alleged undergraduate degree?

This may cause massive gastric distress to some, but Hoagland really did work -- and worked hard -- for the Springfield Science Museum (c. 1964-68). It was there that the energetic young man experienced his first close encounter with Dr. J. Allen Hynek and Dr. Carl Sagan.* However, I do not know if Hoagland was a paid employee or was a volunteer.

The various sections of this small science museum have their appointed curators, such as the Curator of Anthropology, the Curator of Mineralogy, the Curator of Natural Science, the Curator of Physical Science, and the Senior Curator, but no astronomy or planetarium curator. If Hoagland was truly a curator, he most likely would have been the Curator of Physical Science or, as he calls it, the "Curator of Astronomy & Space Science."

Hoagland was most noted for his planetarium shows.

Frank Korkosz (1903-87) was the director of the Springfield Science Museum from 1958 to 1974 and would have been Hoagland's boss.

-----

* A red-letter date for Hoagland was the WTIC-AM radio program, "A Night of Encounter," broadcasted live and on location from the Springfield Science Museum on July 14, 1965. The program, which covered the historic Mariner IV flyby of Mars, was produced by Charles "Chuck" Renaud of WTIC and was hosted by WTIC announcer Dick Bertel, who was assisted by Hoagland. The program was the first to use a laser in commercial broadcasting.

Press accounts of the program variously identified Hoagland as a "curator," a "museum curator" or an "assistant curator" at the Springfield Museum of Science. But the media did not state what he was the curator of.

Bertel spoke with scientists at JPL in Pasadena, California, during the program. Hoagland spoke with astronomer/author Dr. Robert S. Richardson, Associate Director of the Griffith Observatory.

The press reported that some 500 people, including scientists and amateur astronomers, were in attendance at the museum's "Mars Complex" for the program. That's a sizeable crowd, but it is far less than the 2000 people Hoagland's book publisher, Dr. Richard Grossinger, claimed attended.

The program was submitted by WTIC's Paul W. Morency for consideration for a George Foster Peabody Award, but it did not win. Nor was the program "nominated" for a Peabody Award, since there is no intermediate level of competition for the award -- winners are chosen directly from the entire field of accepted entries.

Additional reading:
1. "Springfield's Link to the Red Planet (http://www.springfieldjournal.com/archives/8-10-2000/celestialwanderings.html)," by Richard Sanderson, Curator of Physical Science, Springfield Science Museum.
2. "Richard C. Hoagland: Biographical Information (http://www.enterprisemission.com/hoagland.html)," from The Enterprise Mission Web site.
3. "In My Absence... (http://www.enterprisemission.com/absence.html)," by Richard C. Hoagland.
4. "Richard Hoagland and the 'Message of Cydonia' (http://www.ascension2000.com/Convergence/9914.html)," by David Wilcock.
5. "WTIC Alumni Remembrances: David Wilkinson (http://www.clede.com/wticalumni/People/quips1.htm)."

heliopause
2002-Oct-03, 09:32 PM
Wow, the Springfield Museum of Science is a fifteen minute drive down the road from my house. That means Springfield is famous for two reasons now; the Home of Basketball and the Home of a Famous Raving Loonie! It would be a real stretch to find a third famous tidbit about Springfield.

Zathras
2002-Oct-03, 09:37 PM
It would be a real stretch to find a third famous tidbit about Springfield.


What about the Simpsons?

Alan G. Archer
2002-Oct-03, 10:20 PM
On 2002-10-03 17:37, Zathras wrote:


It would be a real stretch to find a third famous tidbit about Springfield.


What about the Simpsons?


Doh!

heliopause
2002-Oct-04, 01:28 PM
On 2002-10-03 18:20, Alan G. Archer wrote:

What about the Simpsons?


Doh!


Homer and his brood never divulge which Springfield they reside in. I've never seen them eat clam chowdah, so they can't be from Massachusetts. I did think of a legitimate third tidbit, though; Springfield, MA was the birthplace and home of Theodore Seuss Geisel, a.k.a Dr. Seuss.

[edited because I haven't had my coffee yet]

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: heliopause on 2002-10-04 09:29 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: heliopause on 2002-10-04 09:29 ]</font>

Argos
2002-Oct-04, 01:54 PM
Allow me to point out that Copernicus, Tycho, Kepler, Galileo, Newton, had no astronomy degree.

To study astronomy you just need neurons and an open mind (a high IQ may help, but it's also dispensable if you work hard).

But i'm not defending Hoagland.

Valiant Dancer
2002-Oct-04, 02:07 PM
On 2002-10-04 09:54, Argos wrote:
Allow me to point out that Copernicus, Tycho, Kepler, Galileo, Newton, had no astronomy degree.

To study astronomy you just need neurons and an open mind (a high IQ may help, but it's also dispensable if you work hard).

But i'm not defending Hoagland.


But at least Tycho Brahe had a gold nose for a conversation piece.

Argos
2002-Oct-04, 02:12 PM
On 2002-10-04 10:07, Valiant Dancer wrote:

But at least Tycho Brahe had a gold nose for a conversation piece.




Wasn't it silver? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

(Anyway, it would be disturbing to have a conversation with a golden (silvered) nose person. Thank the stars nowadays we can rely on more natural materials).

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Argos on 2002-10-04 10:18 ]</font>

Jim
2002-Oct-04, 03:06 PM
Allow me to point out that Copernicus, Tycho, Kepler, Galileo, Newton, had no astronomy degree.

But neither did they claim to have one. Nor has anyone else ever defended their works by making such a claim.

(Tycho Brahe... was he the gunfighter character in Cat Ballou?)

n810
2002-Oct-06, 07:09 PM
Perhaps his undergraduate degree in astronomy came from one of those mail order colleges you see advertised during Jerry Springer?

Get your college degree in only 6 weeks for $19.99! Order now for delivery by christmas! Makes a great stocking stuffer!

Oh yeah, and there was Clam Chowder in the Simpsons. Mayor Quimby's nephew Freddy was accused of beating up a French waiter because he couldn't say Chowder right, but really the Frenchman was a clumsy oaf. But Springfield, MA doesn't have a poorly maintained nuclear plant does it?

Conrad
2002-Oct-07, 10:24 AM
Isn't there an American firearm known as the Springfield Rifle?

heliopause
2002-Oct-07, 01:42 PM
The Sprinfield Armory was a weapons manufacturing facility for the US armed services from 1797 to the 1960's. The Armory made arms for every US conflict between those dates, and several models used in the Civil War through WWI were referred to as the "Springfield." The most notable innovation developed at the Springfield Armory was the M-1 Garand rifle, the first low-cost semi-automatic rifle used in WWII.

Hmmm...for someone who abhors guns, I seem to know a lot about them. Maybe that's all just leftover info from many elementary school trips to the armory.

ToSeek
2002-Oct-07, 03:11 PM
On 2002-10-04 10:12, Argos wrote:


On 2002-10-04 10:07, Valiant Dancer wrote:

But at least Tycho Brahe had a gold nose for a conversation piece.


Wasn't it silver? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif


Gold, silver, or copper (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a980717a.html)

Rift
2002-Oct-07, 04:22 PM
What a coincidence, Tycho Brahe had a, well, somekind of metal nose, and Hoagland has a Tinfoil Beanie.

About the closest connection you can get to those two... /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Valiant Dancer
2002-Oct-07, 05:01 PM
On 2002-10-07 09:42, heliopause wrote:
The Sprinfield Armory was a weapons manufacturing facility for the US armed services from 1797 to the 1960's. The Armory made arms for every US conflict between those dates, and several models used in the Civil War through WWI were referred to as the "Springfield." The most notable innovation developed at the Springfield Armory was the M-1 Garand rifle, the first low-cost semi-automatic rifle used in WWII.

Hmmm...for someone who abhors guns, I seem to know a lot about them. Maybe that's all just leftover info from many elementary school trips to the armory.


Most of the rifles in use at the time of the Civil War were muskets. The Springfield "Trapdoor" rifle was unique as it was a breech loading firearm.

Argos
2002-Oct-07, 05:41 PM
On 2002-10-07 11:11, ToSeek wrote:

Gold, silver, or copper (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a980717a.html)



Nice link. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

zwi
2002-Oct-08, 02:49 AM
Someone said

What a coincidence, Tycho Brahe had a, well, somekind of metal nose, and Hoagland has a Tinfoil Beanie.

Tycho Brahe also had an ancestor named Rosencrantz and another named Guildenstern

Does that mean he wrote Hamlet?

Zwi

Alan G. Archer
2004-Sep-09, 01:48 PM
...It was there that the energetic young man experienced his first close encounter with Dr. J. Allen Hynek and Dr. Carl Sagan....

My bad! And it took me almost two years to notice. #-o

Looking over my Peabody Awards material, there is no mention that WTIC-AM's 1965 radio program at the Springfield Science Museum was Hoagland's first encounter with Hynek and Sagan. He may have met earlier with either of the two gentlemen.

I pity anyone who attempts to write a full-blown biography on Hoagland.

sts60
2004-Sep-09, 03:43 PM
Whether Hoagland had an undergraduate astronomy degree or not, there's no need to deny he's reasonably intelligent, has spent considerable time on and done some work to popularize astronomy, and even had some participation in the Pioneer plaque.

The problem is that he inflates his resume, claims original credit for ideas not his own (plaque, Europa ice), and the ideas for which he deserves original credit (Mars "city", Pyramid connections, Mars junkyards, etc.) are raving works of hallucination, wishful thinking, numerology, and conspiracy. He's also abrasive and arrogant without the chops to back it up.

I'm just saying, we don't have to talk down what he did accomplish before he went completely off the deep end.

jfribrg
2004-Sep-09, 03:48 PM
Wow, the Springfield Museum of Science is a fifteen minute drive down the road from my house. That means Springfield is famous for two reasons now; the Home of Basketball and the Home of a Famous Raving Loonie! It would be a real stretch to find a &lt;B>third&lt;/B> famous tidbit about Springfield.

Maybe I'm not the only one, but when I think of Springfield MA, I think of Dr. Seuss. In fact, I was in Boston 2 weeks ago, and I almost drove home via Springfield, just so I could see what Mulberry street really looked like.

Alan G. Archer
2004-Sep-09, 05:12 PM
Maybe I'm not the only one, but when I think of Springfield MA, I think of Dr. Seuss. In fact, I was in Boston 2 weeks ago, and I almost drove home via Springfield, just so I could see what Mulberry street really looked like.

The Dr. Seuss National Memorial Sculpture Garden is located at the Quadrangle (http://www.quadrangle.org/) in Springfield, Massachusetts, Theodor Seuss Geisel's hometown. It opened to the public in May of 2002.

AZgazer
2004-Sep-09, 06:04 PM
I had always assumed the Simpson's Springfield was Springfield, Illinois as it's the State Captiol and Clinton is the Nuclear Power Plant. I guess it never was said expressedly, everyone I know around here would say it is a mockery of the idiots in Springfield Illinois (politicians etc...). The blue hairs in Springfield etc..., that show is pretty much poking at all the things I grew up hearing about most who live in Springfield.

We were watching the Simpsons in Central Illinois in 1988ish I know for sure, only over air, it wasn't carried on cable yet. After thinking about it. it would have to be 87-88 for sure as I had gotten in trouble for wearing a tee depicting Bart saying "Don't have a Cow man" and the Principal of my small, backwards HS declared it vulgar. I don't remember which part of the year that was in, so I can't be exactly sure when.

I did write a paper on excessive centureship in school and was talked to by him about being a trouble maker. LOL, what a dweeb. He was removed the next year after a teachers strike, so I guess that was kind of nice for my younger siblings.

ngc3314
2004-Sep-09, 06:43 PM
Whether Hoagland had an undergraduate astronomy degree or not, there's no need to deny he's reasonably intelligent, has spent considerable time on and done some work to popularize astronomy, and even had some participation in the Pioneer plaque.



I kept a copy of the final issue of "Worlds of IF" before it merged with Galaxy back during my college days. It includes a very poetic piece, drifting between fiction and a fact essay, on the future of astronomy as it moves into space, from a spaceship captain retrieving film from an orbiting telescope (well, you can't predict everything!) to an astronomer figuratively turning on the lights as everyone leaves the old observatory for the last time. The author? None other than Richard Hoagland!

TravisM
2004-Sep-09, 08:35 PM
That link from toseek on Tycho, wtf!?

(My guess: Fermat's Next-to-Last Theorem, which posits that 2 + 2 = 5 for very large values of 2.)

lmao

Hans
2004-Sep-19, 12:50 PM
...It was there that the energetic young man experienced his first close encounter with Dr. J. Allen Hynek and Dr. Carl Sagan....

My bad! And it took me almost two years to notice. #-o

Looking over my Peabody Awards material, there is no mention that WTIC-AM's 1965 radio program at the Springfield Science Museum was Hoagland's first encounter with Hynek and Sagan. He may have met earlier with either of the two gentlemen.

I pity anyone who attempts to write a full-blown biography on Hoagland.

Hi Alan, why do you say that? Lack of sources or ?

Alan G. Archer
2004-Sep-19, 03:03 PM
Welcome to the board, Hans.

TEO is correct. There's not much happening at the Mars...A Red Planet Roundtable Discussion (http://disc.server.com/Indices/8728.html) board.

I lack CBS's investigative budget and I don't have the time to jet about the US to interview people and search archives for tasty tidbits of RCH trivia. (I did have the time and money to visit my nephew in Sweden this summer. :D )

Do you have any suggestions?

Hans
2004-Sep-19, 06:46 PM
Howdy Alan

Yep that board seems to have seen its day. Just found these, looks to be a good place.

As to Hoagland, a nice piece of fringe...oh do you know how he supports himself, does he have a real job?

Alan G. Archer
2004-Sep-20, 12:36 AM
Real jobs are for the little people. And who besides Studs Terkel (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565843428/qid=1095636322/sr=ka-2/ref=pd_ka_2/002-9153697-8440860) care to write about them?

I think Hoagland supports himself with lecture fees, royalties from his book and videos, and contributions from his fans. The Monuments of Mars' sales rank at Amazon.com is 118,647. Studs' 1974 book, Working, which I read in high school years ago, is ranked at 6,946.

What is wrong with his Web site home page? It takes a long time to load with dial-up and nothing displays correctly until I click the IE stop button. It usually reloads just fine once it has been cached. Mozilla Firefox 0.9.3 can handle the page, but it still takes a long time to load. His Webmaster should put the home page on a diet.

Hans
2004-Sep-20, 07:41 AM
Alan

Mention that to Fuzzy (at the near defunct Mars board) I think he knows the guy who is Hoagies website landlord

Alan G. Archer
2004-Sep-20, 08:34 AM
Alan

Mention that to Fuzzy (at the near defunct Mars board) I think he knows the guy who is Hoagies website landlord

BetterWhois.com lists Keith Rowland of Rowland Network Communications, Inc., as Hoagland's technical contact (Webmaster).

The Enterprise Mission Web site was developed by VA Graphics, Inc. (http://www.vagraphics.com/index.php)

Hans
2004-Sep-20, 12:26 PM
I think your right on the webmaster

So having looked closely at the sandwich what do you find the most interesting, the most bizarre and the most creditable about him?

Astronot
2004-Sep-20, 02:05 PM
I think it is safe to say that Mr. Hogland is a very creative and imaginative person who can tell a compelling story.

Alan G. Archer
2004-Sep-20, 02:34 PM
I think your right on the webmaster

So having looked closely at the sandwich what do you find the most interesting, the most bizarre and the most creditable about him?

Hans, my friend, I think this thread has wandered away from the original subject.

You might be interested in JayUtah's comments (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=15868&amp;start=50).


I think it is safe to say that Mr. Hogland is a very creative and imaginative person who can tell a compelling story.

I'll concede that much.

N C More
2004-Sep-21, 04:06 PM
You might be interested in JayUtah's comments (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=15868&amp;start=50).



I was present during one of the exchanges between JayUtah and Mike Bara (on another bulletin board) and I must agree that there is a arrogant and dismissive attitude that seems to prevade anything presented by TEM team members. I really don't think it matters what degree(s) Mr. Hoagland holds. His entire mode of operation is structured to insure that his ideas are insulated from any scientific, academic criticism.

Mr. Hoagland is without a doubt a very intelligent person and has successfully marketed and sold his outrageous, conspiracy laden "theories" to those who are sufficiently ignorant and or gullible. From my perspective the purpose of the whole "alien pyramids, evil NASA, the proof is out there" thinking is to make money. I can't see where it has much of anything to do with academic achievement.

junkyardfrog
2004-Sep-22, 12:35 AM
I kept a copy of the final issue of "Worlds of IF"

What year was that?

Alan G. Archer
2004-Sep-22, 11:41 AM
I kept a copy of the final issue of "Worlds of IF"

What year was that?

1977?