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pasiphae_spirit
2004-Jan-31, 02:16 AM
if the government/NASA announced that they had found life similar to earth with people & animals & societies but aliitle more primitve & a bit different than earth. how would you react? would you be scare? how about if they found life that was more advance? i think if they ever found that i would be REALLY scared.

muku
2004-Jan-31, 12:37 PM
i think it would be great!

damienpaul
2004-Jan-31, 12:46 PM
I would not be scared, i'd be rather excited but cautious of the next step.

Faulkner
2004-Jan-31, 02:10 PM
(I think we're in the wrong post here...??)

But hell yeah, I would be thrilled if, say, we captured images of some Earth-like planet, with city lights twinkling on its night side, etc...

What I would be SCARED of is how us stupid humans approached them. With all our arrogances & moral uptightness, we'd probably offend them & start another stupid war! :angry:

They might be looking through their telescopes at us right now, listening to our broadcasts, and laughing their heads off...or shaking their heads in disgust... Maybe they're thinking, "Gee I hope those idiots don't stumble upon warp drive technology!"...

Who knows...

Josh
2004-Jan-31, 02:36 PM
Hi pasiphae_spirit (et al)

I've moved this thread to the appropriate forum. It'll make it easier for people to find it.

damienpaul
2004-Jan-31, 02:40 PM
Thank you josh

I agree Faulkner actually, they would possibly be fearful or disdainful of us and our ways. However, it could be that they see some potential in us and intervene at a later critical point in our upcoming history.

Faulkner
2004-Jan-31, 02:59 PM
We can only hope!

I think history has proved that humans are incapable of resolving their problems. We need outside intervention, that's for sure.

Otherwise, I do not see a rosy future for our offspring. At all.

Chook
2004-Jan-31, 07:59 PM
Ha ... you're funny Faulkner:
You say that "With all our arrogances & moral uptightness we'd probably offend them & start another stupid war! ". Agreed!

But what causes war? Surely it is the opposite of "moral uptighness" - greed, land grabs and all that.

I won't go on - but you know what I mean (time to go for our morning run!)

"She who must be obeyed" has called.

Tinaa
2004-Jan-31, 11:58 PM
I would be most curious and excited! What is their music like? Do they keep pets? What do they like to do for fun? It would be so great to know that we are not alone!

Faulkner
2004-Feb-01, 02:56 AM
[/QUOTE]What is their music like?[QUOTE]

Ah, what I'd give to hear some Alpha Centaurian rock'n'roll!!! B)

Chook, yeah I can be a comedian at times, I admit. But...remember that one man's moral goodness is another man's evil...it's all relative, and a lot of it is culturally indoctrinated (ie artificial). There is no universal standard of "morality". The Universe, after all, is indifferent to morals, it knows no good or bad. I'm sure the Islamic terrorists out there act from a deep moral sense of what they consider "rightness" - not (as Bush likes to say) because they are inherently "evil". (And please guys, I am NOT condoning terrorism, OK? :P )

I'd like to think there's an alien civilization out there that has achieved a form of utopia, where petty "ethical" concerns are swept away by the one & only "Live & let live!" ... Where they've freed themselves from moralistic enslavement!!! Ah, a society of pleasure & leisure for all... Isn't that what we all crave??

Spacemad
2004-Feb-01, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by Faulkner@Feb 1 2004, 02:56 AM


I'd like to think there's an alien civilization out there that has achieved a form of utopia, where petty "ethical" concerns are swept away by the one & only "Live & let live!" ... Where they've freed themselves from moralistic enslavement!!! Ah, a society of pleasure & leisure for all... Isn't that what we all crave??

I agree with you , Faulkner, I, too, would like to think the same! But what are the chances that some alien civilization, in some obsure corner of this immense universe, has developed in anyway like our own. They would surely be so totally different to us as we are to the ants that crawl along the ground around our feet. If their world were more advanced than ours what is the possibility that it be only a couple of centuries, highly improbable I should think. For as much as I love the Star Trek universe I can't come to imagine that hundreds of worlds might have a similar grade of development, (no matter how I might desire that it were so!), surely they would be very, very different.

Just look at our own world with millions of different speices of animal & vegetable life, & that´s only one world! If there is life on millions of worlds surely they would be so different one to another as an ant is to a human. In such a secenario perhaps we could never communicate or realize their existence.

We sometimes refer to ants, dolphins, monkeys, cats & dogs, etc. as being "intelligent" . Yet we are incapable of communicating with them on a meanigful level - so what are the chances we would be able to do better with being from an alien world?

Should we expect them to make the first intents of communication? Even if they did so, would we be capable of of understanding them? Anybody remember Encounters of the First Kind? There the aliens communicated with a supercomputer in a code of sounds & combinations of colours! Dolphins communicate with one another with ultra sounds that we can´t make out & very little, in any real, progress has been made in the study of their "language" for many, many years. Ants communicate by means of chemical traces mainly it would seem, so how do we go about communicating with them?

But I´m getting carried away. ;)

QJones
2004-Feb-04, 04:02 AM
I just hope that we have enough of the appropriate technologies and resources available when we do find XT life (and 'appropriate' really varies on their attitude towards us).

This is why I promote all types of beneficial technological advancement.

degeneration
2004-Feb-06, 11:56 AM
I'd imagine that if it was announced that we had found life on another planet, it would just be at the observational stage... the actual first contact stage would be a long way away.

However, no doubt this would then be used as an excuse for upping the military budget, as this race that we've discovered will somehow pose a threat to planetary security, even though we'll know nothing about them.


For all the sci-fi fans out there, who watched Babylon 5. Knowing how stupid a lot of the people who are in the power positions are, they'll be arrogant and think they are better and can take care of themselves... just like the B5 meeting between Earth and the Minbari.


While I would be ecstatic at the announcement, I too would be very worried at what the government officials etc. were doing, saying, planning behind the scenes, and all the stuff that the general public are not made aware of.

Faulkner
2004-Feb-06, 01:50 PM
We sometimes refer to ants, dolphins, monkeys, cats & dogs, etc. as being "intelligent" . Yet we are incapable of communicating with them on a meanigful level

I beg to differ! Communication is not limited by language, of that fact I am certain.

damienpaul
2004-Feb-06, 10:28 PM
i have to agree with faulkner here, We are able to communicate to domestic animals - particularly dogs on several levels beyond the vocal 'sit, stay' etc etc I have seen several times where a dog has somehow sensed that my mate had a very hard day at work, managed to cheer him up and all.

Spacemad
2004-Feb-06, 11:13 PM
I agree with both Faulkner & Damienpaul that "communication" is possible, howbeit, on a very limited level with domestic animals & that it is not limited to the use of language.

Dogs most definately relate to us on a level beyond mere language, they seem to understand us better than we do ourselves at time, nevertheless, this is not, strictly meaningful. We cannot have a "conversation" with a dog, only a monologue, even if they do seem to understand us! The animal cannot respond to us with its own thoughts (supposing they had their own thoughts), we only infer an answer from our own imagination. (where´s the dog that can rebate this affirmation?)

(I´m not deriding dogs ,I, myself, have 5!)

Our discussion here, on the forum, cannot be conducted with any other being we have knowldge of! Only with fellow human beings. :)

QJones
2004-Feb-06, 11:38 PM
Hmmmn, you've clearly never run into a conversation bot on the internet. Those things are pretty neat.

With XTs, I think that communication might be possible, but only if a whole bunch of luck or intelligence is involved (and the intelligence is a factor of luck, I guess, since I believe that there are intelligent and non-intelligent XTs somewhere in the universe).

Of course, the more science/intelligence/technology we have, the more likely communication will be possible. As well, the more resources we have, the more we can throw at the problem.

Thus, I often think about how to increase the net resources/production of our species. Decreasing costs and increasing productivity really seem to be the key.

GOURDHEAD
2004-Feb-07, 07:01 PM
An extrapolation from Sesame Street might be useful.

Spacemad
2004-Feb-07, 09:40 PM
Hmmmn, you've clearly never run into a conversation bot on the internet. Those things are pretty neat.
QJones Posted on Feb 6 2004, 11:38 PM

You're right, I have never come across a converstion bot in my days of surfing the Internet!

How do I go about finding one? It could be an interesting experience! :P

BlackTearsofapril
2004-Feb-16, 04:40 AM
I would litterally jump and scream for joy and e-mail all the earth's govornments to ditch the UN and become part of the intergallactic scociety... and if there isn't one... MAKE ONE! Then i would jump on a spacecraft and become the ambassador for earth. (can you tell this is basicly what i'm waiting for?)

OH OH OH! Neonewsnow.com has a few... (converstion bots) theyre called quigglebots. Aber programmed them quite nicely. Theyre friendly and funny... and reminds me of him... you can have a LONG conversation with them...

Cambo
2004-Feb-16, 11:30 PM
Firstly I personally am not scared of the idea of meeting other intelligent or not intelligent life from space. It has to out there somewhere. I can't believe we (the earth in total) are the only life in the universe. We may be the only ones doing what we are doing at this present time, but distance really precludes any contact.
I think it would be a unifying event for all of humanity, short of those who live in fear. Just saw Bowling for Columbine by Michael Moore. What a succinct piece of film making about our (well American to be more exact) society and fear. But I digress.

It is a Utopian sort of dreaming but anything that breaks down barriers of all kinds between humanity is a good thing. Well most things.

As a twisted thought though, if humanity had an outside enemy that threatens all of us, maybe that could bring us all together and then all we need to do is address the threat or the fear and everyone would live happily ever after. But I know I'm just dreaming and clutching at straws.

We are an aggressive animal, that's why we are where we are and probably what will finish us off in the end. Quick pass me my anti-depressants!

damienpaul
2004-Feb-17, 11:21 PM
As a twisted thought though, if humanity had an outside enemy that threatens all of us, maybe that could bring us all together and then all we need to do is address the threat or the fear and everyone would live happily ever after. But I know I'm just dreaming and clutching at straws.

Sort of like the big aerial battle in Independence Day!...a lot of people seem to be clutching at those straws, including myself.

Spacemad
2004-Feb-18, 03:03 PM
:( It's sad to say, but, yes, I think you are right, Cambo, unless humanity meets a threat greater than that which individual nations (or allegiances of nations) can face we are unlikely to cooperate on a global scale. It´s sad to think that individuals (o groups of) most often only get together & cooperate when there is an outside threat. Look at the allegiances that appear in times of war, just as an example.

I have read numerous Science Fiction stories in which humans have had to band together to survive an alien invasion, but it´s also something that we see from history as well.

I just wish we could control our animal instinct & get together to explore & settle the universe, creating a balanced society where human rights are respected (& the rights of alien species ,if we ever find any) & everyone has a chance to live in peace & harmony. (wishful thinking?) :)

damienpaul
2004-Feb-26, 12:13 PM
However, we may get the situation that in the case of invasion - greed, pride etc get into the way of the necessary unity.

But I would be optimistic and say that the aliens will come as explorers

Sphinx
2004-Feb-27, 02:51 PM
Just speculating but perhaps in the not so distant future every child born will have implanted into their heads a chip that shuts down all aggressive behaviors. A small incision into the skalp where the skull has not fully come together yet would surely be less morbid than a circumcision. This could be our outside intervention.

Faulkner
2004-Feb-28, 12:19 AM
Do you think agressive behaviour is a brain defect, or is it perhaps induced by environmental conditions?

I opt for the latter. I think societal conditions on this planet are shocking, and it doesn't surprise me that some people "explode". Just look at the proliferation of anti-depressants...not to mention hard drugs...The human race simply isn't coping with the way things are.

The idea of "microchip implants" scares the bejeebers outa me. If it comes to this, I'm packing my bags, jumping into my spaceship & blasting off out of this asylum.

But I agree - circumcision IS definitely "morbid". Something very sick & perverted there...

Sphinx
2004-Feb-28, 02:40 AM
I do think that a major factor in human agression is society but I do think that there is also an element of natural human agression. Society acts to curb this aggressive nature. I don't know to what to degree each plays a factor but both are a factor.

Faulkner
2004-Feb-28, 10:09 PM
Our agressive impulses are squashed aggressively... I don't think that's the way to deal with it. There's no long-term vision in the process. They forget the "pressure-cooker" effect.

Sphinx
2004-Feb-28, 10:40 PM
"pressure-cooker" effect?

damienpaul
2004-Feb-28, 10:48 PM
Pressure cooker - built up resentment and anger, eventually hits boiling point and the situation becomes largely worse than before...its a risk when people attempt to smother a fued rather than solving it (in most cases these are not the same thing).

Spacemad
2004-Feb-29, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by Sphinx@Feb 27 2004, 02:51 PM
Just speculating but perhaps in the not so distant future every child born will have implanted into their heads a chip that shuts down all aggressive behaviors.

:rolleyes: Don´t you think that without our aggressive nature (under control) we would be a poorer species? After all its often the motor that gets things done <_< How many times have we done something through anger that we might have put off for some other moment or would not have done at all?

Our aggressive nature needs some of the curbs imposed on it by society - otherwise it would be absolute anarchy - but to go as far as implanting a chip to control it is going too far. Have you read Audious Huxley´s book "Brave New World"? That´s the sort of society we could end up with if we were to go down that road&#33; : :blink: ph34r:

Sphinx
2004-Feb-29, 04:40 AM
LOL Spacemad. I never said I thought that this would be a good idea. But, the idea seemed to fit this conversation and it eludes to a point. Not only is it possible, but it would also be a really quick fix. The question as to whether or not the effects of riding a society of it&#39;s aggressive tendencies would be desirable can be debated. If you take the contrast between American business philosophy and the Asain business philosophy you get a similar comparison. Where the American businessmen are very aggressive the Asain businessmen are rather passive and reserved. Both are said to rival eachother. I think your idea of our species "needing agressivness to get the job down" is some what ethnocentristic.

To be honest, going to far down this road is opening up a whole can of worms. Most people signing on to this forum are science buffs and everyone knows that the math and science buffs are typically lacking in the humanitarian areas. We should leave these kind of debates for the philosophers, psychologists, sociologists, social anthropologists, and what not.

We should do what we know best. Argue the statistics. Speculate based on numbers, not philosophy.

I say this with a very light heart. I just don&#39;t want to go to far down this tangent.

Manchurian Taikonaut
2004-Mar-03, 11:18 AM
true, things may go bad.

contact with another alien race should not be looked at lightly.

Contact with foreign DNA? With a simple species we still have the possiblitty of things going wrong without any war or conflicts. We have the change that non-native DNA will be introduced into the earths ECO system. European dutch elm disease, SARS, the European thistle, Mad cow, the Asian wood beetle have damaged North Americas farming, health and food sectors and cost countries billions. What would alien DNA from outside the earth do to us?


With an advanced race, we must consider that mankind must do its best to maintain good relations, while preparing for a worst case scenario. When we polute or own planet, always fights wars and used crucifixion as a form of punishment. What will aliens think of a race of human who aldready used Atomic weapons on their own people?

QJones
2004-Mar-03, 06:57 PM
Well, I certainly think that learning about the existance of aliens is better done sooner than later. On the other hand, I&#39;d like to be a bit more advanced as a species before we contact them.

TwAgIssmuDe
2004-Mar-03, 07:47 PM
I don&#39;t think I would be scared but excited very excited, but would like to see how peolple will react to such a discovery.
I meen, our civilisation&#39;s oldest question, &#39;are we alone&#39; is still the most challenging to be asnswered.
I really don&#39;t how people of this earth will react, it may be a joyfull day when it happens, but again people may be scared and angry of what the discovery would do to their believes and religion.
Who knows, but hopes that, that day will come sometime in my lifetime.

evdog2k2
2004-Mar-15, 03:08 AM
i think if we found life similar to earth, george bush would invade them because of threats that they have "weapons of mass destruction"

Mettalica1
2004-Mar-31, 08:15 PM
How I would react is that I would love it to know that were not the only ones in the universe or that is a lot of wasted space :rolleyes:

imported_General Zod
2004-Apr-02, 04:24 AM
Here&#39;s a little fodder for the mind.

Given that the universe is several billion years older than our solar system even, what are the odds that we will find a civilization similar to ours in our level of technical advancement? Odds are if we looked at enough systems, we will eventually find one, but what if we picked up radio signals from a planet
just 300 light years away? That would mean that that civiliation has already advanced 300 years further than ours, providing that their technological advancement proceeds at a similar pace to our own. Uh oh. In that situation, we would have advance warning, as our little radio wave bubble is still 200 years away from their planet(s). Let&#39;s just hope any galatic neighbors are peaceful, and that they dont have some method of transportation that isnt restricted by relativity. But thats off the point. Im rambling.

Odds are that we will find life without sentinence first, perhaps next door. I mean, it took Earth billions of years to form intelligent life. And hundreds of thousands of years to harness electricity. Either that, or we will find the other extreme, hyper intelligent life with knowledge beyond our wildest ken, technological or biological capabilities we would only be able to associate with as godlike. They would be unstoppable if they deemed our planet as valuable for their needs.

On the upside, if a sentinent race were that far advanced, odds are that violent tendencies would be bred out. After all, with that kind of power they would have an incredible ability to destroy themselves, and probably eventually would, given enough time. A lot can happen in a billion years.

Here is another point to consider. If aliens were hostile to our presence, they could have easily done whatever they wanted at any point in our history before the 1950&#39;s and we would have been powerless to stop it. At least now we have incredibly powerful nuclear bombs that would render our planet useless to them anyways, so why bother us at all? Nothing to gain, in my opinion.

We ARE probably being watched by something, somewhere. Every time u look up at the stars, you could be looking at whole planets or systems teeming with life. I seriously doubt, from a scientific point of view, that we are so special. I just want to live long enough to see my beliefs vindicated by discovery.

GOURDHEAD
2004-Apr-02, 02:12 PM
In the thread: Universe Today Forums -> Everything Else in the Universe -> The Science of Consciousness , I presented ideas with some guesses as to how sentience will evolve and I believe it has happened and will continue to happen in many locations throughout t he universe as time marches on. In other threads I have pointed out that we don&#39;t really know how long it took the universe to manufacture enough oxygen and other essential elements in sufficient density to provide enough water and other essential chemicals for life to begin to proliferate throughout the universe. It is probable that we are among the first sentient critters (if the universe is only 13.7 billion years old). It is fortunate that the spacing between stars in our neck of the woods will keep us isolated from competition until we are better equipped including an appropriate adoration and practicing of benevolence.

To the extent that we are not among the first, it becomes ever more urgent that, in order to survive the inevitable competition, we accelerate our technological development. A convenient impetus for driving us to excellence would be to seriously design and execute capabilities for interstellar transportation which phrase is worth googling.

imported_General Zod
2004-Apr-04, 10:42 PM
I dunno. I&#39;ve read recent articles showing that astonomers are finding surprisingly large amounts of heavy element signatures in the spectrums of the earliest forming galaxies. I expect that we will find that quasars are, due to their active natures, helping form supermassive stars that live their lives in the fast lane, then go out in a supernova, dispersing their heavy elements into their surroundings a lot earlier in the universe&#39;s life than we currently expect. Therefore, the essential elements could have been abundant enough in certain areas for life to have started fairly early on. We will see.

imported_Ziggy
2004-Apr-24, 01:14 PM
Then again, if our current mindset is primitive, then there just like us :huh: .