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muku
2004-Jan-31, 04:09 PM
what we'll gain from the exploration of space?.....
why we go there?........ :unsure:

GOURDHEAD
2004-Jan-31, 10:37 PM
Survival

Faulkner
2004-Feb-01, 02:58 AM
Fun?

damienpaul
2004-Feb-01, 03:00 AM
survival, fun and to boldly go where no one has ever gone before....live long and prosper

Faulkner
2004-Feb-01, 04:26 PM
I don't like the "survival" aspect. If "survival" is all that it's about...DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENTS WILL TAKE US ALONG????

I doubt it very much. My views aren't even represented in Parliament. That's why I don't vote. Liberal? Labor? They're all the same = ultra-conservative/reactionary. Stupidity, if you want it in one simple word.

My only hope is that we all die & we all suffer the same fate. Maybe I'll get my vengeance ONE DAY!!!! (Judgment? I hope so!)...Is there "government" in the AFTER-LIFE???? Will there be "government" in our outer space colonies???

GEE, I WONDER IF I'M REALLY AN "ADVOCATE" AFTER ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????? (I certainly don't believe in the elitist monopoly of space exploration. BRING ON THE EL CHEAPO TOURISM!!!!!!!!!!!))))))

(yeah right.....)

((...I'm still waiting, Professor?....)))

zephyr46
2004-Feb-02, 01:32 AM
Because it's there ?

What do we gain? We will have to wait till we get there, I guess. Um, the survival thing would tend to suggest that we have destroyed our planets ability to fix it's self up, and thus we are at the point of killing ourselves, so if we go to space we would, gain the opportunity to destroy another eco-system?

Um, to boldly go where no one has gone before (to the best of our current knowlege :D ) (we haven't been there yet [Mars, and only briefly to the moon])

:blink:

Muku, are you thinking that it might not be a good idea to go to Mars? If your seat comes up man, I'll take it ! I don't think there would be many participants at this forum that wouldn't drop there lives for a year to check Mars out.

We will gain the satisfaction of the Pioneer, the first to go somewhere, the first to find out what the Hell is That ! :blink:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/p/002/1P128369169EFF0200P2217R2M1-BR.JPG

Image source NASA (http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/p/002/1P128369169EFF0200P2217R2M1.HTML)

Faulkner
2004-Feb-02, 07:37 AM
Nice picture!

Yes I've seen some VERY STRANGE pictures of the Martian surface around the 'net. It is a very strange & beautiful planet. Would be good to have a post where people can contribute links to various different whacked-out Martian pictures they've come across in their net-surfing...!? In some of Hubble's pictures of the planet, it even (for the life of me) looks like vast areas of green vegetation exists across the planet, in contrast with the reddish desert areas!!!

Matthew
2004-Feb-04, 06:13 AM
What do we gain? The sense that we can. That we CAN get to space, and can survive there.

QJones
2004-Feb-06, 11:43 PM
I plan to live a long, long time, and I have family.

I think that the more we invent and explore the more TOTAL wealth is available to each person. In the first world nations, we've been heavily increasing our wealth along leisure lines (i.e., we get more leisure for less cost than our ancestors). But, our wealth can increase along other lines.

As well, we currently consume resources, and we need to increase our sources of resources. This is quite possible in space.

There's a line of advancement. Our species, both as a whole and individuals has the potential to evolve and improve. I'd like to see more of that improvement.

damienpaul
2004-Feb-07, 02:42 AM
I am a confessed travel-aholic (I even have a wall map, marked with the places that i have visited.) The opportunity to travel even as a space 'tourist' i could never pass up.

Faulkner
2004-Feb-07, 05:00 AM
It's interesting, isn't it? I think lots of people would be frightened of blasting off in a space shuttle. And yet everyone in this forum would JUMP at the chance! We're a special breed here, aren't we?! ;)

Hands up for the Lunar & Martian colonies!!!??

damienpaul
2004-Feb-07, 06:12 AM
I'll put my hand up!

Imagine the UT colony somewhere, with Fraser as the ruler.

I think that there would be a groundswell of support for the idea and possibly no shortage of volunteers.

Faulkner
2004-Feb-07, 03:41 PM
I think I could live comfortably under a benevolent dictatorship. Would be a nice change...!?

TwAgIssmuDe
2004-Feb-07, 07:09 PM
Maybe because its our instict, you know, exploration.
Our ancestors explored new land and oceans, now whats left is space/ universe to explore, and we are doing it now.

Chook
2004-Feb-07, 07:23 PM
I REALLY can hardly believe what intelligent people are writing here! :blink:

Where do you live - in the middle of Death Valley?

Have you ever enjoyed walking through the Vienna Woods, the Swiss Alps, the pristine white sands of Australian beaches, gone diving amongst multiple-coloured fishes in the Barrieer Reef etc. etc. etc.

We live in a BEAUTIFUL world, yet you clowns, with stars in your eyes, want to risk the stresses and time of space travel to live ... where???? In the most hostile environment imaginable!!!!

You want your bloody head examined :angry:

PS Just joking, really - but I seriously can't understand why you would want to seriously space-travel YET. ;)

damienpaul
2004-Feb-08, 12:28 AM
Where do you live - in the middle of Death Valley?

Well no, I live in the middle of the Australian desert, asides from the heat, would probably resemble Mars in many respects.

I think also to stamp our mark on this universe could be considered a good motive for space exploration.

Faulkner
2004-Feb-08, 02:00 AM
We live in a BEAUTIFUL world

Indeed we do, my friend...if only that beauty were not so TARNISHED by the human race!

(I've seen pictures of Tierra del Fuego (southernmost tip of S. America)...extremely beautiful, like a prehistoric paradise!! Would love to travel there!)...

galaxygirl
2004-Feb-19, 06:09 PM
We have a lot to gain by exploring space, such as scientific research and maybe finding life. By going to places like the Moon and Mars, we are also fulfilling our desire to explore.

About the UT colony... I'm up for that!

NasaBoy
2004-Feb-19, 07:26 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: Our planet is nice, until a 2 kilometer wide Asteroid comes in and hits Earth! I mean really, people say we aren't that easy to take out, man give me one good sized Asteroid traveling at a high speed and velocity and we are dead, period. Yes, we should enjoy life on Earth, but just turn on the news. Life is a craphole. First of all, we HAVE explored space, just not all of it, which I think isn't even possible since the universe or multiverse(from the other topic)is so huge and is always growing. I love space, and I think it is so pretty. From the colorful Nebulas to Black Holes. We live in just an amazing place. So many wonders, so many dangers, space is awesome. Space is comedy, drama, action, and horror all thrown into one.

Algenon the mouse
2004-Feb-20, 05:01 AM
Though some people might want to visit Mars, I would not be one of them. The idea of sleeping in something that closely resembles a coffin for a very long time with a bunch of people is not my idea of fun. I will leave it to people who have more guts.

As for what can be gained by it. I think that we can get a better understanding not only of Mars but of our own Earth as well and maybe correct some of the mistakes we have made. Sorry, I still have hope for man/womenkind. (politicans is another matter though...jk)

Faulkner
2004-Feb-20, 07:57 AM
Space is comedy, drama, action, and horror all thrown into one.

Very nicely put, NasaBoy!

I think a lot of people bury themselves in the "awe" and "wonder" of it all...and forget about the horror. "The horror...the horror..." (in my best Marlon Brando voice).

The universe is beautiful to look at through the telescopes, but open your emotions just a bit and you'll be headed for an anxiety attack! It's too overwhelming & baffling & indifferent to petty human concerns... And besides that, it's just plain WEIRD.

I think astronomers sometimes detach themselves from this emotional aspect...? (Which could very well be a subconscious defense mechanism within them!?)

NasaBoy
2004-Feb-20, 09:36 AM
Yeah, see the Universe is a nice place, its just that for every nice thing, theres an extrmemly bad thing. Ex: Super Novas(pretty, but like one trillion super H-Bombs going off at the same time), Asteroids(just give me one 2 kilometer wide one and we are screwed), Comets(same thing, good size we are dead, also remember Comet Shoemaker Levy on Jupiter that lefta mark bigger than Earth?), Black Holes(if not possible to travel through time with, then once you hit the event horizon you are a pancake), and theres a load of other junk I could mention. Space is the most interesting thing there is, and it will never be answered.

Faulkner
2004-Feb-20, 10:24 AM
It's heaven & hell, rolled up in one big indifferent package! (I'm glad you can see that too!)


once you hit the event horizon you are a pancake

Well, spaghetti actually...ha...

Victoria
2004-Feb-25, 03:19 AM
Nice pic...as far as we as a whole can see let alone intrepret(total spell check)... B) A new realm....perhaps.

QJones
2004-Feb-25, 08:10 PM
Well, I'm not as dramatic as NasaBoy ... I don't think we're 'doomed', at least not any time soon. But, as a species we consume resources ... quite a bit of resources. This isn't actually bad, since there are nigh-infinite resources waiting to be harvested. Our drive to consume also pushes our drive to expand. I believe, that with attainable technology, space opens up new sources and types of wealth. I would certainly like the total AND average wealth of our species to continue to improve.

As well, space development certainly does provide a safety margin for not only our species, but for ourselves as well. The more quickly, and completely, we develop our solar system, the more resources, people, and technology we'll have available to counter new threats.

I advocate husbanding our existing resources as much as possible, without detering development ... certainly, don't starve yourself at the expense of an education or contribution! But preventing useless waste is certainly commendable.

Victoria
2004-Feb-26, 04:22 AM
Right, I agree, absolutely. In order to see the future we have to be the future! :)

NasaBoy
2004-Feb-26, 04:58 AM
Hey I was just saying reality wise, this isn't happy bunny land. I was just pointing out things that are dangerous. I believe in the whole future thing too. Im all for it. Thing is, we have all these(no offense please)Christians who don't believe in Evolution and stuff like that. So I don't want to turn this into a religious arguement so im going to stop there. I think in 100 years our technology will be amazing(not that it already isn't). If we the human race are still alive still 1000 years(which I highly doubt)from now we could look like green things wiht huge eyes!!! :blink: :blink: :blink:

QJones
2004-Feb-27, 11:44 PM
Agreed. Short-term, I'd certainly think that we're our greatest threat. Long-term, I really can't imagine what our greatest threat will be. Expansion and advancement - coupled with an increase in average wealth - seems to be the safest solution.

My main opinion, however, is that those people with optimism of the future (like myself) have a moral duty to push the advancement of our species. You could say it's for altruistic reasons, sure, but it can also be selfish ... the better the world is, chances are, the more you'll enjoy it.

This is why I encourage people to consume and produce products that advance us. The more we focus on useful goods (and services), the more rapidly we'll advance. The more we waste ... well, the worse off we'll be (relatively). Education, environment, technology, health, wealth ... these are all areas we can improve.

Victoria
2004-Feb-28, 03:47 AM
If I have properly understood the above correct, I would refine a tad and finish with complacency is neither for the bird nor the worm. :P

NasaBoy
2004-Feb-28, 04:09 PM
Well thats simple. If we are our own threat short term, then long term will be like an Asteroid impact, or heck maybe even a Comet impact. The Sun dying. So many things, but yes that is true we are our own threat right now. I see us the USA starting a war with North Korea. Maybe nuclear. We are killing all the aminals, destroying all the forests, polluting the crap out of everything, I mean too many things. So by looking at Earth now and its current state. Wouldn't you say we've done a great job with it? :)

Victoria
2004-Feb-28, 05:19 PM
Now, Nasaboy maybe contemplate this: the world today is abetter world than yesterday with the help of public araweness. The use of the internet is a simple tool to research all the answers for todays problems. Hopefully we the people can unite and form prospectives of peace and prosperity rather than war and destruction. I try to stay focused on the role follow the leader. I recycle. I am not ashamed to be the only one who requests pick-up.

NasaBoy
2004-Feb-29, 12:48 AM
I know that, but its still not perfect. I think the world today is very superficial. Theres usually nothing good on the news, and then theres all this other junk happening. I know its a better world then it was years ago because of the advances in technology and stuff, but it still has a ton of kinks to work out. I think that as long as people can not get along with each other or two countries or a number of countries can't get along with each other there will always be problems and wars in the world. Then again, im not one of those tree hugging hippies who say, "Can't we all get along?". Im just pointing out the problems in the world. Now don't get me wrong, its not like I hate it. Like I said im just pointing out some of its problems. I like Earth, I think its the best planet.

Faulkner
2004-Feb-29, 03:52 PM
I like Earth, I think its the best planet.

It's the only one you know!!! :lol:

Shop around, you might find a lot better! :P

Tinaa
2004-Feb-29, 04:25 PM
Man has been fighting man since the beginning of time over scarce resources. In social psychology it is theorized (realistic conflict theory) that even prejudice is caused by the competition for scarce resources like good jobs, health care, housing and good schools. I believe that the US (I comment only on the US because it is all I really know about) has made serious progress against prejudice and discrimination, but we have a long way to go. If the the realistic conflict theory has any merit, you can bet that man is going to keep fighting man. So, it would behoove all of us if people of all generations begin to reduce, reuse and recycle now. Believe me NasaBoy, we know the problems in the world, however, as Faulkner said, its all we have now.

NasaBoy
2004-Feb-29, 04:43 PM
Faulkner, Earth was 50% off when I bought it. Then again though, it was the only planet I could buy, since its the only planet that human life can survive on at the moment. Gotta go back to planets r us and get "Billy" some hot new atmospheres..... :lol: I hope he doesn't get sick and spew out a Tornado....

damienpaul
2004-Mar-02, 09:15 AM
Where is this store??? I would like to buy a moon or two of Jupiter and a small bag of asteroids.

NasaBoy
2004-Mar-02, 09:51 AM
Its between here and the moon. Just floating around. Their prices are really cheap........ok i've gone crazy.......

QJones
2004-Mar-02, 05:51 PM
You know, as far as we know, there's no interstellar agency waiting to charge Earth for other stellar bodies. In all honesty, everything outside of Earth (that we know about) is currently free for the taking. It's really first-come, first-serve as far as the universe is concerned.

The only real cost to developing a space-resource (an asteroid or planet, or even solar system) is the cost of getting other people to help you. In our world, you have to pay people to do stuff. I'm okay with that, personally, 'cause I like getting paid.

The only limit, right now, is money. In fact, you can't even say laws are a hinderance to the private individual these days. You could just start in a place with favourable laws.

Even neater is the fact that, with technology, the process of getting into space should become cheaper and cheaper. This is why I'm aggresively saving (and investing) money ...so that I have some cash to invest in space development when a good opportunity arrives.

In fact, I've even claimed a star. And really, who can fault me? I look at the night sky and think "someday, I'm going to own and develop THAT star".

Spacemad
2004-Mar-02, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Tinaa@Feb 29 2004, 04:25 PM
So, it would behoove all of us if people of all generations begin to reduce, reuse and recycle now.

:) I couldn't agree with you more, Tinaa. I have been recycling & trying to reuse things for many years. Itīs often more difficult to reduce than to do the other things. So many products we buy come wrapped up in several different packages that there is little we can do except try to recycle & reuse them. So we are wasting Earthīs resources & polluting the environment.

Iīm not really convinced that man will be much different in the future. Look how we are already filling up space around the Earth with all our space rubbish - each new mission of the Space Shuttle has to take into account all this rubbish - & is a potential safety hazard for every launch into space & what do we do about it? The same as we have always done i.e. try to ignore it & hope it will disappear over time!

Yet we have so much to gain from the exploration of space: better technology - to improve our quality of life here on Earth, better medicine - even if it does take some time to filter down to the grass roots of society, abundant energy resources - once we learn how to tap them efficiently, a place in the universe outside of Earth for future unknown contingencies that could put our species in danger of extinction (apart from a lll World War that could obliterate us :angry: :( )

Tom2Mars
2004-Mar-03, 03:51 AM
I am so thrilled to have stumbled onto this topic page. I've only been at this site for a few days, please see my other postings.

Pretty much my whole premise is that about 90% percent of all our efforts is waste and inneficiency. People have become stuck in repetitive patterns and don't change quickly enough, even when it is good for them. I believe that using good design for future space colonies is a positive way to demonstrate new technologies, or even to highlight existing technologies which deserve attention.

But I also believe that it is more important to embrace those technologies today. To use them now, and market them at a competitive price. One house I just built looks great, exceeds building codes, costs 20% - 30% less to build than conventional and maintains a more comfortable interior temperature with a heating/airconditioning system that is 6 times smaller than a similarly-sized house. And it is not super high-tech with computers and wires running everywhere.

I have received interest from the National Science Foundation to build and test one in Antarctica. About 20 million dollars of their yearly budget if for oil, used for heating and generators(for power). By the time the oil gets all the way down there, it costs about 20 times as much as back home. It's a lot like what a Mars base could end up like. Dependent on expensive resources.

The plan I'm presenting is that a more efficient, lower-cost stucture would save on operating costs(and produce less pollution). The savings could be reinvested into more buildings which save energy. In less than 10 years, McMurdo station could be rebuilt and cost less to operate, the savings could pay for more research efforts. I was told that the nearest competitors quoted a price to rebuild McMurdo at about 2 - 5 billion dollars(2,000 to 5,000 million). My plan would be self-sustaining at a small fraction of that price.

Using a similar strategy, we could rebuild the entire planet and create a higher standard of living for all of earth's inhabitants. The soluions are out there! Hope I wasn't too wordy.