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aurorae
2001-Nov-30, 04:36 PM
Something I've been wondering about...

If the US had developed the Apollo program (since it was a race and they were going as fast as they could go) such that it just happened that some of the missions were during a solar maximum... would they have delayed for a year or two? Or would they have just rolled the dice and hoped there was no solar flare during the trip to and from the moon?

I'm not sure this question belongs in the lunar conspiracy topic (since it is a science and policy question), but I posted it here because the dangers of radiation during space flight is an issue that the lunar HB'ers frequently bring up.

Valiant Dancer
2001-Nov-30, 04:43 PM
On 2001-11-30 11:36, aurorae wrote:
Something I've been wondering about...

If the US had developed the Apollo program (since it was a race and they were going as fast as they could go) such that it just happened that some of the missions were during a solar maximum... would they have delayed for a year or two? Or would they have just rolled the dice and hoped there was no solar flare during the trip to and from the moon?

I'm not sure this question belongs in the lunar conspiracy topic (since it is a science and policy question), but I posted it here because the dangers of radiation during space flight is an issue that the lunar HB'ers frequently bring up.




Under the old BBS, someone had asked this question. Someone else, whose name escapes me, mentioned that a mission did occur during the solar maximum and high flare activity. The answer was that the radiation was stopped by the hull of the spacecraft. The HBer's also don't draw any difference between energetic and non-energetic radiation. I'll research this and get back with specifics.

Valiant Dancer
2001-Nov-30, 04:58 PM
On 2001-11-30 11:36, aurorae wrote:
Something I've been wondering about...

If the US had developed the Apollo program (since it was a race and they were going as fast as they could go) such that it just happened that some of the missions were during a solar maximum... would they have delayed for a year or two? Or would they have just rolled the dice and hoped there was no solar flare during the trip to and from the moon?

I'm not sure this question belongs in the lunar conspiracy topic (since it is a science and policy question), but I posted it here because the dangers of radiation during space flight is an issue that the lunar HB'ers frequently bring up.




Update. 1968-1972 was a solar maximum. During the in flight times of the Apollo spacecraft, there were 1400 solar flares. None of a severe magnatude. Here is a link to information.

http://www.clavius.org/envsun.html

It's a debunking site.

JayUtah
2001-Nov-30, 07:57 PM
The answer was that the radiation was stopped by the hull of the spacecraft.

A better answer is that there wasn't much solar radiation to stop. We get periods of increased solar activity about every eleven years, and the Apollo program occurred during one of them.

The Apollo hulls would have withstood a reasonably strong blast. One of the very biggest events would probably have made the astronauts sick enough to jeopardize the mission, but the chances of that happening during a mission were extremely remote. Only one significant solar particle event actually occurred during a mission, and it wasn't a very strong one.

The HBer's also don't draw any difference between energetic and non-energetic radiation.

Hoax believers display enormous confusion over all the radiation topics. Not only do they fail to understand basic concepts such as energy, flux, and quality factors, they don't even seem to understand the difference between the Van Allen belts and a solar particle event.

To the layman the word "radiation" is irrevocably associated with lethal danger. Therefore they can just quote legitimate sources that say there's "radiation" in space, and that makes it sound dangerous.

Neither hoax believers nor their audience understand that solar particle events occur in shades of intensity from the barely detectable to the kind that fry satellites and disrupt power grids, the latter being extremely rare. They don't understand that a particle event is not an expanding sphere of inevitable death, but a localized, directional burst. They don't understand that the particles don't travel at the speed of light.

The really big events take hours to ramp up. If NASA had detected signs of a big event on the way on launch day, I'm sure they would have considered postponing to the next window.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JayUtah on 2001-11-30 15:04 ]</font>

ToSeek
2001-Nov-30, 09:51 PM
On 2001-11-30 14:57, JayUtah wrote:

To the layman the word "radiation" is irrevocably associated with lethal danger. Therefore they can just quote legitimate sources that say there's "radiation" in space, and that makes it sound dangerous.



I went outside this morning and got exposed to a huge blast of solar radiation!* How long have I got to live?

ToSeek

*Actually I didn't because it was overcast this morning, but I need to pretend that I did in order to make my point. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Wiley
2001-Dec-01, 12:18 AM
On 2001-11-30 16:51, ToSeek wrote:


On 2001-11-30 14:57, JayUtah wrote:

To the layman the word "radiation" is irrevocably associated with lethal danger. Therefore they can just quote legitimate sources that say there's "radiation" in space, and that makes it sound dangerous.



I went outside this morning and got exposed to a huge blast of solar radiation!* How long have I got to live?

ToSeek

*Actually I didn't because it was overcast this morning, but I need to pretend that I did in order to make my point. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif



Not long. Even when overcast you still get 70% of the UV.

It's been nice knowin' ya. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Wiley on 2001-11-30 19:18 ]</font>

Silas
2001-Dec-01, 12:18 AM
I went outside this morning and got exposed to a huge blast of solar radiation!* How long have I got to live?


Grin! I'm feeling cold, so I'm gonna go stand next to the furnace and risk a largish dose of thermal radiation... Meanwhile, my retinas are subjected to energetic photons, some of which are in the dangerous X-Ray region of the spectrum... At the same time, radon atoms are breaking down in my lungs... Oh, and there are unstable isotopes in my luminous wristwatch and the smoke-detector in my kitchen...

And don't forget those cosmic rays!

Silas

Kaptain K
2001-Dec-01, 01:26 AM
I went outside this morning and got exposed to a huge blast of solar radiation!* How long have I got to live?
The rest of your life! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

ToSeek
2001-Dec-03, 04:02 PM
On 2001-11-30 19:18, Wiley wrote:

Not long. Even when overcast you still get 70% of the UV.

It's been nice knowin' ya. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Wiley on 2001-11-30 19:18 ]</font>


I'm writing this from my cave a hundred feet underground and hoping I can finish it before the cosmic rays or the neutrinos get me.... urk, too late... /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif

2001-Dec-03, 04:21 PM
<a name="LINK2.ASR"> page LINK2.ASR aka LINK2.ASR
Young`un was washed over the side of the
ship and out to sea in a Typhoon
{in the south China Sea}
well on the very next wave that cam along
the Shanti' { Um ASR-7 } we rode thru that
Typhoon ? {in `57} Sipped back down off the
big wave { Yeah in reverse } it was easy
to tell when the shanti was doing that by
the sounds of the engins.. when the prop
began spinnig the wrong way the electric
drive moters became genarators and the
generators became motors, and the Budda
diesals becam compressor and made the sickest
sounds { bellowing like a cow } anyway the
"Shanti" fished Youngun out of the sea with
its flag pole and hung him out to dry between
WAVEs ahter hehad his broken are cast
his story was he planed to surf back to Hawaii
on an anchor fluke and wait there. So maybe one
of the young astronaughts was planning on using the solar winds to get back quicker? hmm?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HUb' on 2002-09-19 17:47 ]</font>

CJSF
2001-Dec-06, 01:14 PM
I realize this thread's been dormant for a while, but...

Regarding HUb''s last message, this might be of some interest:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/3207.htm

http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/auxil/asr7.htm

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/asr-7.htm

The "Shanti" is the Chanticleer, ASR-7, built during WWII.

HUb', when were you on board? It says it was decomissioned in 1974, but was out of active service by 1963.

CJSF

_________________
"Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never,
ever get it out."
--Thomas Cardinal Wolsey (1471-1530)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Christopher Ferro on 2001-12-06 08:20 ]</font>

Mr. X
2001-Dec-06, 01:57 PM
It's a complicated story, but he said here 1957, and I seem to recall he said to me he was aboard during thermonuclear tests at Enewetak atoll, the carrier present was the Boxer (I think) but Hub' suggested it was the Hornet (if I remember correctly). I think Hub' has witnessed first hand those enormous detonations.

Hub', I have a question, what was your rank aboard ASR-7 Chanticleer at Enewetak atoll? And what was your job aboard, were you a diver?

Valiant Dancer
2001-Dec-06, 04:56 PM
On 2001-12-06 08:57, Mr. X wrote:
It's a complicated story, but he said here 1957, and I seem to recall he said to me he was aboard during thermonuclear tests at Enewetak atoll, the carrier present was the Boxer (I think) but Hub' suggested it was the Hornet (if I remember correctly). I think Hub' has witnessed first hand those enormous detonations.

Hub', I have a question, what was your rank aboard ASR-7 Chanticleer at Enewetak atoll? And what was your job aboard, were you a diver?


I did some poking around and found this list of ships present at the Operation Hardtack I testing in 1958 (Enewetak Atoll).

The only aircraft carrier I see here is CVS-21 Boxer. A few DD's and DE's were present as well as ASR-7 Chanticleer.

http://www.aracnet.com/~pdxavets/hdships1.htm

Mr. X
2001-Dec-06, 05:41 PM
Hub' was present in 1958 for Hardtack I at Enewetak atoll aboard ASR-7 Chanticleer.

I don't know his rank though, he never told me, or function aboard.

As I said I found Boxer to be at the location but Hub' mentioned to me there was the Hornet, I'm sort of confused on all this.

2002-Sep-08, 11:03 PM
<a name="4 AKBAL 17 MOL"> page 4 AKBAL 17 MOL aka When-ASR-7
On 2001-12-06 08:14, Christopher Ferro wrote: To: HUb' 2-9-08
1: ASR-7's final voyage was to return
2: from Enewtock {May `58} arived Pearl May 5th
3: I (did not return) to oakland
4: where the Highly radioactive vessel
5: was cut into pieces {this word of mouth}
6: Shipmate told me of the cut up later
7: and each member of the crew was given
8: a chunk of wood from the main deck
9: {except mne of course} as I "DID NOT RETURN"
A. I was looking for Hull's links to
B: atomic test sites when i ran across this
C.. September 8, 2002
HUb', when were you on board? It says it was decomissioned in 1974, but was out of active service by 1963.
the whole issue was obscured my inaccuricies
CJSF
and falsifications {as far as i can see} The ASR-7 "WAS" there
and the 100,000 Kt, testing ended "THEN"
"Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never,
ever get it out." [ prior the 1e8's were happening at an ever faster pace!
--Thomas Cardinal Wolsey (1471-1530)

thatks for the links [ My mates told me it was cut up on arival ]
which i of course believe and showed me the wood {worn about the neck. It was prior to 1960 and myst have been in 1958 at Oakland?

2002-Sep-08, 11:11 PM
<a name="JD2452526"> page JD2452526 aka RANK = Et3
On 2001-12-06 08:57, Mr. X wrote: To: JD2452526.HUb'
It's a complicated story, but he said here 1957, and I seem to recall he said to me he was aboard during thermonuclear tests at Enewetak atoll, the carrier present was the Boxer (I think) but Hub' suggested it was the Hornet (if I remember correctly). I think Hub' has witnessed first hand those enormous detonations.

Hub', I have a question, what was your rank aboard ASR-7 Chanticleer at Enewetak atoll? And what was your job aboard, were you a diver?
123456789 123456789 123456789 ... I was an ET3, at the time, I was not a diver!
My story about the affairs this! I recieved noticed that orders had been cut for me to go to Pearl "Next"?
It became very VERY controversial. what i would do next? I defered the decision to Gramps
the oldest whit hat in the USN.. he said "Jump ship" .. which I did. So when the ASR-7 arived
in Pearl May 5th 1958 at the SUB peir .::. I was not aboard as i had jumped off at the finger pier as AAR-7 Pasted [ its a LONG jump } believe that?

2002-Sep-08, 11:31 PM
<a name="20020908.3:12"> page 20020908.3:12 aka I don't remember
On 2001-12-06 11:56, Valiant Dancer wrote: To: 3:13 P.M. PST & HUb'
3:14 P.M. It would appear that the "Story's" now becomming declassified?
Bill Hight served aboard the USS Chanticleer ASR-7
Roy Magerkurth was a diver on the USS Chanticleer ASR-7
Neithor name do I recall? It was a small crew
and most member's knew one another at some level
{for MY part? let me say [infatically] that the plastic pipe installed an the ASR 7
to provide "WASH DOWN" broke in right in front of the wheel house.
I did some poking around and found this list of ships present at the Operation Hardtack I testing in 1958 (Enewetak Atoll).
When the fire pumps were brought on line 3:18 P.M.
The only aircraft carrier I see here is CVS-21 Boxer. A few DD's and DE's were present as well as ASR-7 Chanticleer.
there was no pressure to the nozels {forward} as the :3:19 P.M.
http://www.aracnet.com/~pdxavets/hdships1.htm
:3:19 P.M. water simply sperted out of the
broken plastic pipe in a single stream!
Now about the Guiger Counter / if you check ships stores
you might find there was one AN/UPN-1 on board. and believe this: before the Test T+ 3min it went click click click At about the time WE Turned From South to East it Screamed one time .. and died rigth there & RIGHT THEN

2002-Sep-08, 11:36 PM
its getting to complex to DOCument {try this anyway}
me: Atomic Tests: Operation Hardtack 1, Pacific Proving Grounds
1958
http://www.aracnet.com/~pdxavets/hardtac1.htm
3:14 P.M. It would appear that the "Story's" now becomming declassified? 3:27 P.M.PST
Bill Hight served aboard the USS Chanticleer ASR-7
Roy Magerkurth was a diver on the USS Chanticleer ASR-7
Neithor name do I recall? It was a small crew
and most member's knew one another at some level
{for MY part? let me say [infatically] that the plastic pipe installed an the ASR 7
to provide "WASH DOWN" broke in right in front of the wheel house.
I did some poking around and found this list of ships present at the Operation Hardtack I testing in 1958 (Enewetak Atoll).
When the fire pumps were brought on line 3:18 P.M.
The only aircraft carrier I see here is CVS-21 Boxer. A few DD's and DE's were present as well as ASR-7 Chanticleer.
there was no pressure to the nozels {forward} as the :3:19 P.M.
http://www.aracnet.com/~pdxavets/hdships1.htm
:3:19 P.M. water simply sperted out of the
broken plastic pipe in a single stream!
Now about the Guiger Counter / if you check ships stores
you might find there was one AN/UPN-1 on board. and believe this: before the Test T+ 3min it went click click click At about the time WE Turned From South to East it Screamed one time .. and died rigth there & RIGHT THEN
3:27 P.M. PST .. September 8, 2002 .. JD2452526 ..4 AKBAL 17 MOL

GrapesOfWrath
2002-Sep-09, 03:20 AM
wow

2002-Sep-09, 01:45 PM
On 2002-09-08 23:20, GrapesOfWrath wrote:
wow

Yeah: yeaH?
thanks? Boxer : Hornet ? now i don,t know?/?
1957 ? 1958 :
;57 Typhoon 99% of crew could NOT even stand up.
'58 Hardtack Not only standng but running about
hollering, shaking fists, & colorfull explatives, abound. anyway back to Science at OHSU see link above later maybe

2002-Oct-03, 08:57 PM
In ever even number year I always on one BBS
or another post My write incampaign page
I've found its theoputic to so do so I do so.
On 2002-09-08 23:20, GrapesOfWrath wrote: To: Just Another Day
this Year it was 4Governor: Today I tuned in the TV
to check why the .rain and the D'bait was on?
three Candidates Libertarian, Democrat, Republician
I was not aware TV would show Lib left & when
I saw the frames i dialed my BBS and change MY
campain page FROM Libertarian Party To Pacific
http://www.pmaco.com/nebeaux.html
at PM ac 0 while I was swithing from LI b to
Pacific NBC cut the D'bait And switched TO New York City {believe what ever you Like}

2002-Oct-03, 09:02 PM
<pre> the top 13 lines of 25 look like this
/ this space [I] [I]
: available : | / | for
: for paid : Write ||\ //|| Governor
: political : in || \// || of
: advertizement : || / || Oregon
: Ver March 1, 2002 : [I] II [I] *

in all ONE(1) General [I] [I] local{PDX} BBS's
RED / / 1 591 5103 music
ORANGE //^\ //^\ 2 591 5695 Mac
YELLOW PACIFIC //===\ //===\ 3 977 2942 DOW
GREEN // \ // \ 4 256 8451 E-M
BLUE [I] [I] [I] [I] * 5 233 2046 DOS
</pre>
Have a Bananna Split

2003-Feb-02, 03:43 PM
<a name="JD2452673.CW"> page JD2452673.CW aka Catholics Won
On 2002-10-03 17:02, HUb' wrote: To? HUb' February 2, 2003
<pre> the top lines looked like this
/ this space [I] [I]
: available : | / | for
: for paid : Write || //|| Governor
------------------------
Well? it seamed like a good day
to push to top?
Anyway ? the Cathlic? Won the GoVners Race..
No surprize I guess.. As i understand this
THEY were the only ones in it? No UMat.ill.A
ORANGE //^ //^ 2 591 5695 Mac
</pre>
anyway as I recall National Geographic had the
picture? dont recall what year & Month
========
as i recall i did send my bits to
http://www.aracnet.com/~pdxavets/hardtac1.htm but dont see them THERE ? 7:52 A.M.

2003-Apr-16, 11:02 AM
yeah? YUCK
Just a push to page one
So Sure C&H
Shirley if you get this far
if far FAR out
---------------
well never mind
===============
its rather dull
::::::::::::::::
the crack in the Hull
????????????????????????
and all that other Jive..
I'll mention Grapes, G99, & of Course ToSeek
& cant leave out Mr. X {the list goes on} its been some time now..HUb' aka pdx00782 (ELSEWHERE)

kilopi
2003-Apr-30, 01:13 PM
its rather dull
::::::::::::::::
the crack in the Hull
????????????????????????
and all that other Jive..
I'll mention Grapes, G99, & of Course ToSeek
& cant leave out Mr. X {the list goes on} its been some time now..HUb' aka pdx00782 (ELSEWHERE)
I see it's my turn to bump

2003-Nov-12, 04:08 PM
default color

SamKimpton
2005-Jan-29, 10:59 AM
"Now about the Guiger Counter / if you check ships stores
you might find there was one AN/UPN-1 on board. and believe this: before the Test T+ 3min it went click click click At about the time WE Turned From South to East it Screamed one time .. and died rigth there &amp; RIGHT THEN"

Interesting,...Are you sure about the designation of the Geiger counter?

The AN/UPN-1 is an S-band retransmision beacon developed by the British Branch Radiation Laboratories in 1944 and used a portable marker for navigation waypoints used by aircraft during WW-II. It is powered by a 12 volt battery has a 50 watt output and needs to be set up and turned on to even work. In case any of you might know this is the ubiqutous BUPS beacon used in the Normandy invasion. it is sensitive to transmissions in the 2700 to 3400 Mhz range only.

If this is what you are talking about I would be very interested to hear more about the unit.

Sam