PDA

View Full Version : Discussion: New Galaxy Beats Distance Record



Fraser
2004-Feb-16, 05:58 PM
SUMMARY: An international team of astronomers have found what could be the most distant galaxy ever discovered. Located 13 billion light-years away, it's being seen when the Universe was only 750 million years old. The object was found by combining the power of the Hubble Space Telescope and the W.M. Keck telescope; they also used the natural gravitational lensing effect of a relatively nearby galaxy, which focused the light of the more distant galaxy. This galaxy is small - only 2,000 light-years across - but it's forming stars at a furious rate.

What do you think about this story? Post your comments below.

VanderL
2004-Feb-16, 06:49 PM
I think it's time to start worrying about the highest possible redshift, it's 7 now how high can it get? This is a question I posted in another thread about the image:
The strange streaks and all kinds of funny features that are visible, are they also caused by lensing, or are these semi-circular "galaxies" actually the way we see them?
Some of these features are in front of normal shaped galaxies, does that mean that they can't be the result of lensing?
Cheers.

Planetwatcher
2004-Feb-16, 08:45 PM
This galaxy is small - only 2,000 light-years across - but it's forming stars at a furious rate.
I'm thinking it is so small because we are looking so far back in time.
It could well be we just couldn't see so far back is why we can just now see it.

I kinda wonder how many more such distant galaxies will just suddenly show up when it's early light finally reaches us.

fcunning
2004-Feb-16, 09:45 PM
Why do you speak of a 13 billion year old galaxy forming new stars as doing so in the present tense as if the activity were taking place at the present time. For us to keep perspective I would think we should speak of the past tense.

tac
2004-Feb-16, 09:58 PM
its not the time it takes the light 6to arrive, its the technology to see it

John LaCour
2004-Feb-16, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by VanderL@Feb 16 2004, 06:49 PM
The strange streaks and all kinds of funny features that are visible, are they also caused by lensing, or are these semi-circular "galaxies" actually the way we see them?
The curved shap is caused by the imperfect magnification of the gravitational lense. The "lense" is the mass of the galactic supercluster, which is not perfectly shaped for quality optics, but we can calculate based on the mass distribution and the shap of the images what the the background galaxy looked like at the time the light left 13 billion years ago.


Based on the CMB and the Inflationary Big Bang cosmological model, the universe is only 13.7 billion years old, and the fist stars did not form until several hundred million years later, which means this galaxy is one of the first to form. There are theories that the formation of the central black hole, and the energy released in its initial quasar phase, is the cause of the star formation in the rest of the galaxy. This could account for the small size of the galaxy and its spectrum, having only just ignited the fire of star birth. But it also could mean that the Inflationary Big Bang model is wrong with a galaxy so far back to the beginning of the universe. As we develop larger and more precise ground and space telescopes, the discovery of a galaxy farther, and older, that 13.7 billion years is not far off (if they exist).

My question is, if that happens, what are our options for a new model to explain the universe? Superstring Theory? M Theory? The Ekpyrotic Model? All of these still try to explain the current uunderstanding of the universe (about 13 billion years old) without the inconsistencies between General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. None of them is formulated for a universe that could be much larger and older...

Nick4
2004-Feb-17, 08:17 PM
That is relly far away.

(dosent the farther away mean that it is older?)

John LaCour
2004-Feb-18, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Nick4@Feb 17 2004, 08:17 PM
That is relly far away.

(dosent the farther away mean that it is older?)
That's right. If an object is 10 lightyears away, then you are seeing what that object looked like 10 years ago. The light that left the galaxy in this article is 13 billions years old.

jamerz3294
2004-Feb-18, 09:25 PM
:ph34r: This small bit of news has much potenmtial to help us start to answer some of the questions raised above. For now, my money is still on the Hot big Band and Inflationary Model. Until something comes along and convinces me I'm wrong, which is part of the joy of Astronomy in the first place.

sickbattery
2007-Jul-30, 10:45 PM
(...) The object was found by combining the power of the Hubble Space Telescope and the W.M. Keck telescope; they also used the natural gravitational lensing effect of a relatively nearby galaxy, which focused the light of the more distant galaxy. (...)

Doesn't anyone try to look at earth throu this "gravitational lense" ? Couldn't we see the earth how it was a long time ago oO? ... or is it impossible to bend the light 180 ?

01101001
2007-Jul-30, 11:29 PM
Welcome, sickbattery, to the BAUT Forum.

(Note to others: this is a very old story, from February 2004, resurrected by sickbattery.)

The UT article is New Galaxy Beats Distance Record (http://www.universetoday.com/2004/02/16/new-galaxy-beats-distance-record/?1622004)

Hubblesite.org news release: Hubble and Keck Team Up to Find Farthest Known Galaxy in Universe (http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/releases/2004/08/text/)


Doesn't anyone try to look at earth throu this "gravitational lense" ? Couldn't we see the earth how it was a long time ago oO? ... or is it impossible to bend the light 180 ?

Take a look (http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/releases/2004/08/image/a/) yourself. Do you see enormous galaxies here -- as pinpoints -- and not individual stars here, let alone planets? The distant galaxy is a red point somewhere down near the bottom.

Light from this galaxy took more than 13 billion years to cross space and reach our instruments. Our solar system did not exist back then.

And, distant objects that we see are now old and far away. We are not looking back at space near our present location. Space may be curved -- maybe -- but it isn't curved that much.

trinitree88
2007-Jul-31, 07:24 AM
Doesn't anyone try to look at earth throu this "gravitational lense" ? Couldn't we see the earth how it was a long time ago oO? ... or is it impossible to bend the light 180 ?

sickbattery. Perhaps the Aborigines in Walk-About Creek might pick it up using a gravitational boomerang. G'day mate. :shifty:pete

sickbattery
2007-Aug-01, 09:59 AM
sickbattery. Perhaps the Aborigines in Walk-About Creek might pick it up using a gravitational boomerang. G'day mate. :shifty:pete

Are you making fun of me :P? I don't get it anyway, .. Walk-About Creek oO? I'll just forget it XD. Google says somthing about weddings and Crocodile Dundee? I'm confused.



Welcome, sickbattery, to the BAUT Forum.
Hi :).


Take a look (http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/releases/2004/08/image/a/) yourself. Do you see enormous galaxies here -- as pinpoints -- and not individual stars here, let alone planets? The distant galaxy is a red point somewhere down near the bottom.

Light from this galaxy took more than 13 billion years to cross space and reach our instruments. Our solar system did not exist back then.

And, distant objects that we see are now old and far away. We are not looking back at space near our present location. Space may be curved -- maybe -- but it isn't curved that much.

I thought about it very "simple(?)". Light needs some time to get to the black hole, there it could be bent 180(?) and go back to earth. If the black hole is say a billion lightyears away, we would look 2 billion years into the past oO ? The nearest black hole is 1,600 light-years away(?). If we can look 13 billion ly into space with a black hole ... it sounds like it shouldn't be a problem oO.

... well, anyway, I know nothing as you can read in my sig :). It was my first idea, black hole bends light? Try find a spot to look back at earth, take pictures of dinos, bash creationists and feel good ;).

Jerry
2007-Aug-03, 05:02 PM
Such a lens, or lensing system could exist, and it would be funner than hell to build a telescope to exploit it. The odds against finding and exploit such a system are worse than astronomical. (And we all know how bad astronomy is;)