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Lord Illidan
2004-May-23, 07:21 PM
Developments on Earth are happening really fast. Humans are becoming more and more advanced and are now advancing further and further into the Solar System. Could it be the case, that we are under watch from Superior Extra Terrestial life who are seeing what we are up to, and to whom we are the babies of civilisation? And what happens if we do find out that we are being watched?
Will it develop into Galaxy War 1, or would it lead to peaceful trading? Will the population explode in panic, or in enthusiasm?
I'd like some feedback, just to see how people feel over this topic.

QJones
2004-May-23, 08:03 PM
Sadly, the concept of trade seems to be rather limited. Other than artistic goods, or unique technologies, we would have very little to offer an interstellar species. Our resources don't seem to be very spectacular, all told.

I'm a little worried about how they'll react to us. Prediciting reactions is tough, which is why I'd like our species to be as advanced as possible.

Spacemad
2004-May-23, 09:05 PM
:unsure:
I'm a little worried about how they'll react to us. Prediciting reactions is tough, which is why I'd like our species to be as advanced as possible. QJones Posted on May 23 2004, 08:03 PM

I´d go along with you, QJones, on that point! I´d certainly like us to be as far advanced as it is possible to be for that kind of eventually! Though as I´ve said before, in another thread, I, personally, don´t think their are alien civilizations out there "spying" on us.

Sp1ke
2004-May-24, 08:57 AM
I think we need to improve our personalities and our ethics before we could handle contact with aliens. We don't seem, as a species, to be particularly welcoming to anyone different to ourselves. Just look how each nation treat its own neighbours when they differ in slight ways from them.

Maybe aliens would be so different from us that we'd accept them in the way that we accept dogs or butterflies. But I wouldn't be too optimistic about everyone welcoming them with open arms and open minds.

QJones
2004-May-24, 07:05 PM
Seems more likely, to me, that the situation would be reversed!

galaxygirl
2004-May-24, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by Lord Illidan@May 23 2004, 03:21 PM
Will it develop into Galaxy War 1, or would it lead to peaceful trading? Will the population explode in panic, or in enthusiasm?

I think the aliens would help our society advance since trading wouldnt be beneficial to them. I dont think contact would start a war either because if they were 'bad' aliens, they probably would have killed us by now.

If we do find out that we're being watched, such information would stay in the government to prevent panic with the population.

Spacemad
2004-May-24, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by Sp1ke@May 24 2004, 08:57 AM
I think we need to improve our personalities and our ethics before we could handle contact with aliens. We don't seem, as a species, to be particularly welcoming to anyone different to ourselves. Just look how each nation treat its own neighbours when they differ in slight ways from them.


I believe you are right. :)

It's not only nations that treat other nationals different from themselves, it's also how we view our neighbour on the same street as us. How much discrimination goes on! If we can't treat others with different skin colours & different cultures to our own, how are we ever going to accept aliens, if they exist & are capable of entering into contact with us? :unsure:

Tiny
2004-May-24, 10:06 PM
Just dunno why we exist in this world, ppls treating each other just like a devil vs angel... no breaktime.

SkyBoard
2004-May-24, 10:13 PM
Well, in terms of contact with aliens vs. humans perfecting their ethics and environmental awareness, it seems there are only two options awaiting us:

1) Aliens wait for an intellectual golden age of HomoSapiensSapiens before all-out public contact
-or-
2) Aliens come down ASAP to help us achieve that golden age.

rahuldandekar
2004-May-25, 06:13 AM
Aliens may not be able to communicate with us as we and they could be made differently. Maybe tjhey would communicate with Radiation we wouldn't even be able to see. They may not have mouths. Their language may not have the same rules of grammer. What we call Relativity, they may call asdfnmjsd, where each letter stands for a different wvelenth or freuency of light.
Breaking this communication gap may alone take hundreds of years.
And they may not be able to show us the advanced way, as their planet may be freezing cold they they would use some low melting point metal like carbon,etc. for their machines, and they would be unfamiliar with silicon,etc..
Still if they are carbon based ( thats a big 'if' ) then we may have some similarities. Those would help us, if we act wisely.

Sp1ke
2004-May-25, 09:03 AM
The biggest thing that aliens could teach us wouldn't rely on language or biology. The mere existence of another race would be a major shake up to quite a few philosophies.

It's one thing theorizing about the possibilities of alien life but its quite a different matter to actually have one visit us. If we're not the only form of life, it makes us less special in one way (humanity is just one, probably quite average, expression of life) but it also opens up opportunities (if there is one race out there then there are probably many more - think what we could learn from all of them)

String Fan
2004-May-25, 01:43 PM
I find it a little surprising that the folk on this thread, though clearly well versed in the infinite possibilites of the universe/s, feel we have nothing on Earth that would interest/benefit an alien race.
To be fair, for the time being, if we encounter another species of life from space it's more likely that they will have found us, not the other way around.
If that were the case, then one has to ask what reasons aliens would have for coming here.
Are they:....Curiously explorative (as we are)?

Searching for something?

Fleeing from something?

Hoping to discover 'life' (like us^2)?
If any of these are so, then here on Earth we have a lot to offer.
Maybe the alien's tech will be so complex that even the greatest human minds cannot comprehend it, but they might never have heard music?

They may have seen places that they'd rather not remember, but we have room to hide them.

If they're looking for life.....well........they found it alright.

Sp1ke
2004-May-25, 02:55 PM
IMO I think we have a great deal to offer any extraterrestrial visitors, just as they would have for us. Just by being different, we could learn from the differences and how they approach things from an alien perspective. It's not necessary for us to have better toys than them, or vice versa.

But I think you raised a vital point, String Fan. Why would these aliens have contacted us? If they are just exploring and incurably nosy like us, then as long as we treat them like equals, we should get on fine.

And if they're looking for something that we have in abundance and that we don't place any value on, we can probably trade peacefully.

But although I'm optimistic and would welcome any contact by ETs, I'm not sure we as a race would handle the contact very well, based on how we treat each other.

String Fan
2004-May-26, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by Sp1ke@May 25 2004, 02:55 PM
And if they're looking for something that we have in abundance and that we don't place any value on,


What? Like global friendship and decency?

Sp1ke
2004-May-26, 09:21 AM
LOL :D
I said "that we have in abundance..."

How about selfishness and narrow-mindedness?
:(

But not to get too depressed about it, I think if everyone does their best to live a live of global friendship and decency, they'll eventually infect the rest of the population with a more ethically advanced approach. (...maybe)

TuTone
2004-May-27, 02:18 AM
How would we communicate with the Aliens? I'm sure they don't speak English or Spanish or understand our gestures.

kashi
2004-May-27, 12:37 PM
See the topic "using prime numbers to communcate with aliens". I'd love to see this very thing happen, but I believe it's wishful thinking. I'd love to her alien music (if there is such a thing given that music relies on auditory senses).

Manchurian Taikonaut
2004-May-27, 06:55 PM
Through time we have used images, writings and painting to spread our messgae and details about the world, in Paintings of christian ideas, medival scripts, Hindu sculpture, Chinese temples, large cathedrals, old scrolls...all these use sculptures and images in the past. Even in prehistoric times man used this method

http://www.futuretalk.org/ezine/31aug01/ezinegrafix/08260521.gif


Even animals can understand images



and can also be trained, like Dolphins and monkey. NASA even trained some chimpanzee for Space experiment

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/SPACEFLIGHT/Mercury/SP17G2.jpg


how to send your messgae to an alien?
use pictures to communicate !

http://seti.uws.edu.au/images/pioneer.gif

http://seti.uws.edu.au/main/contact1.htm

QJones
2004-May-27, 10:33 PM
What happens when they try to 'train' us to understand them?

rahuldandekar
2004-May-28, 05:14 AM
What if they can't see like us. What if they see in infrared? ultraviolet? You know, our visual spectrum is very small.

Manchurian Taikonaut
2004-May-28, 01:06 PM
dolphins can't see either, they use a type of sonar but can understand communication using shapes, pictures and objects. By using their dolphins sonar they can detect the structure of these shapes and people have communictaed with dolphins this way.


Underwater Touch Screen For The Dolphins
Since dolphins cannot interact with computers using traditional means, we have searched for alternate methods which will allow them to interact with their Mac computer. We tried to teach the dolphins to use an acoustic joystick, a way of controlling a computer cursor with sounds. They did not show sustained interest in the concept, and in the early 90's the logistics of programming the computer to recognize their complex sound was problematic. However during initial tests using a TV display device which responds to sound with light patterns, the dolphins controlled the display by squeaking their rostrums against the underwater windows in their tank. This suggested the design of an underwater touchscreen. During 1992 and 1993 we worked with Carroll Touch, (now Elo TouchSystems) in Texas, one of the country's major touchscreen manufacturers. Their design is dolphin safe: infrared beam production and sensing electronics are in the lab, and a "reflector frame" on the dolphin side of the underwater window bends the beams 90 degrees so they run parallel to the window surface. Control of the computer through touch allows the dolphins to run programs that to make choices in various experiments devised to explore their mental abilities and preferences


But maybe we aren't so smart if we have trouble understanding dolphins, maybe they will train' us to understand them as QJones said!!

John L
2004-May-28, 02:27 PM
Maybe the aliens are bored and will find us amusing enough to keep us as pets. They'll build little boxes for us to sleep in, put a nice colorful collar around our necks with tags identifying our alien owners, and they'll put out bowls of food and water for us to eat. :blink:

Maybe the alien's population has exceed one trillion, and they need new food sources so they'll use us like cattle. "Hmm, I like the cut of that human skin coat you're wearing!" Gross, but possible. :o

Maybe they won't even know we're here and keep flying by ignorant of our existence. We don't really put out that much EM radiation compared to the natural sources in the galaxy, and the range our signals have reached is still so tiny. We're on a small little world orbiting an average little star out in the periphery of the galaxy. We may never get noticed. :huh:

And maybe we're the only life in this galacy, or at least the first inteligent life to evolve. Maybe it'll be us that goes out to find the primitive little aliens on their primitive little world and make them pets, or food, or clothes, or never even notice them because they don't make a big enough splash on the galaxy for us to find them. B)

Callisto
2004-May-28, 02:30 PM
Maybe aliens have already visited us before but we just didn't know it. What about all the UFO's. Don't you think that at least one of those UFO's could actually be aliens exploring our world. If so that means that those aliens are much more advenced then us 'cause they found us before we found them which tells us that they're more advanced. But I think that if we ever find life it would be some kind of simple life like bacteria or something that's microscopic.

John L
2004-May-28, 03:41 PM
The modern era of UFO's began after the end of WWII, when we suddenly went from slow propeller driven planes to jets, rockets, and atomic bombs. If you could see lined up all of the things the US government alone has put into the air over the last 60 years I think you suddenly realize that UFO's are nothing more the experimental planes, balloons, and rockets that none of us were ever meant to know about.

No. I don't think any of the sightings are aliens.

akbar
2004-May-29, 01:58 PM
Hello You and All
Im new here it's my first time entering this site. My knowledges is very low also my Engilsh language isn't ok. However I got your mean and try to tell my idea by using your words and your sentences.
I like your question I have thought about that since about 30 yeasr ego.
Sometimes I believe that YES we are under watch from Superior Extra Terrestial life who are seeing what we are up to, and we are the babies of civilisation to whom.
I think during next 100-200 years we will find out that we are being watched and in this case it will help to peace and the population will explode in panic.
As you have said "Developments on Earth are happening really fast" yes it is true but I think it is fast only for us BUT not to whom are (or were&#33;) in Superior Extra Terrestial. In my mind they have atleast one BLIND POINT about us and it is about <tense or speed> their tense is very shorter than us (may be 1 to 1000,000,1000) and they think that our tense in the Earth is the same as theirs. If they get this point immediately they will meet us&#33; but I can not say where this meetind will occur? on Earth? In space or may be they will transfer us to their home or to some other stars. I like see that but I know it is soon yet and it will not heppend for my life.
I hope my email make you happy and you have some lol by this.

I&#39;d like some feedback too, just to see how people feel over this topic. please spread your hidden ideas all our the world

akbar
2004-May-29, 02:04 PM
Lordlllidan
Hello did you see my idea about what you have asked about aliens?

akbar
2004-May-29, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by John L@May 28 2004, 02:27 PM
Maybe the aliens are bored and will find us amusing enough to keep us as pets. They&#39;ll build little boxes for us to sleep in, put a nice colorful collar around our necks with tags identifying our alien owners, and they&#39;ll put out bowls of food and water for us to eat. :blink:

Maybe the alien&#39;s population has exceed one trillion, and they need new food sources so they&#39;ll use us like cattle. "Hmm, I like the cut of that human skin coat you&#39;re wearing&#33;" Gross, but possible. :o

Maybe they won&#39;t even know we&#39;re here and keep flying by ignorant of our existence. We don&#39;t really put out that much EM radiation compared to the natural sources in the galaxy, and the range our signals have reached is still so tiny. We&#39;re on a small little world orbiting an average little star out in the periphery of the galaxy. We may never get noticed. :huh:

And maybe we&#39;re the only life in this galacy, or at least the first inteligent life to evolve. Maybe it&#39;ll be us that goes out to find the primitive little aliens on their primitive little world and make them pets, or food, or clothes, or never even notice them because they don&#39;t make a big enough splash on the galaxy for us to find them. B)
May be aliens are watching us right now and they see our talking here in inernet in this site&#33;. so I like say them:
Hello All Dear aliens..how are you doing today? why don&#39;t you come down and contact us? what is the problem? it is so late please hurry up and joint us.

akbar
2004-May-29, 02:19 PM
May be aliens are watching us right now and they see our talking here in inernet in this site&#33;. so I like say them:
Hello All Dear aliens..how are you doing today? why don&#39;t you come down and contact us? what is the problem? it is so late please hurry up and joint us.

rambo07
2004-May-29, 03:14 PM
you know if i were an alien and i was here already ,but undercover, this would be the perfect site to ask me a question and get a really good answer&#33;

Sp1ke
2004-May-30, 12:43 AM
There was an interesting point that I think Akbar was making. What if aliens&#39; perception of time was completely different to ours?

If you&#39;ve ever tried to swat a fly, you know how quick they move so they must see time passing much more slowly than we do. How about if it&#39;s not just related to body size and aliens actually experience reality at a billionth of our speed? Or a billion times faster? That would make it a real challenge to communicate, or even perceive their presence.

If they moved at or close to the speed of light, they&#39;d be much more familiar with the mass/energy relationships of relativity.

Is there anything in physics that makes this a stupid idea?

Spacemad
2004-May-30, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by Sp1ke@May 30 2004, 12:43 AM
There was an interesting point that I think Akbar was making. What if aliens&#39; perception of time was completely different to ours?

Is there anything in physics that makes this a stupid idea?
I, too, think that&#39;s a interesting point&#33; I&#39;ve already pointed out the different ways of communication that we might take into account when trying to communicate with an alien race (if they exist & we enter into contact with them) but I Hadn´t´t thought about different time perceptions till Akbar´s post&#33;

As you rightly point out, Sp1ke, a fly´s perception of time must be very much faster than ours as their reaction times make our fastest look like we´re waving our arms around in think mud&#33; :P :D

I read an interesting story, (yes, by Asimov, again&#33;) where the first astronaut to return from Mars lived his time in Martian time, every action of ours happened to him several minutes earlier (the time lapse between Earth time & Martian time). For example, his wife sees him with a nosebleed & rushes into the house to see what was the matter - only to find that she was the cause - her rushing into the house caused her to hit her husband in the face with the door&#33; An illustration of not just different time "perceptions" but different time "realities". Might not this be also a possibility for two alien species? :unsure:

eburacum45
2004-Jun-24, 07:34 PM
A race of alien beings who have coded themselves into electronic impulses and run on some kind of computer substrate might be have much faster subjective rates of experience than ourselves;

in this case we would probably have to let them do the majority of the talking as we will not be able to think fast enough to keep up with them.

I believe we will have very little in common with most alien races; we do not realise how much of our psychology and philosophy is shaped by our biology and our grammar. So far we have been entirely unable to decipher the songs of whales or dolphins;
they are much closer relatives to humanity than any alien we are likely to meet, yet we cannot speak with them on the most basic level.

SpaceChick
2004-Jun-24, 09:44 PM
It&#39;s hard to tell if there&#39;s any E.T. out there right now, but it&#39;s possible that so-called "aliens" did visit us ever since humankind dawned to keep tabs on us so one day we&#39;d become technologically advanced as they are. They either come in peace or in war with us. What doesn&#39;t make sense is that humans invented technologies within a century while humans evolved for more than thousands of years with slow advancements in science and technology. Why did it start with the event of Industrial Revolution that eventually led to today&#39;s first civilian manned spaceflight in 100 years? I&#39;m just guessing that the "aliens" are waiting for the right time to approach us, or there&#39;s absolutely no proof that there&#39;s any E.T. life out there. It&#39;s hard to imagine that we have DNA and who invented the DNA? All of those endless questions I have...it does make a person wonder. :P

TrueMaya
2004-Jun-25, 01:05 AM
I think if we do find an alien civilisation before they find us, that&#39;s something to congratulate ourselfs about. But I think the first thing that we would do first is abduct one and disect and puree one to establish its threat to us. Then fight over which country has first dibs over saying "Take us to your king/queen/leader alien thingy&#33;"
If they found us first, I think that there would be mass hysteria.
In an ideal universe, we&#39;d probably set up trade or something. Our innovativness and concepts of love for their technology.
But the universe is still young, and if some alien being was able to evolve, find its way to outerspace, find us, and survive the long trip out here... then I say grab a towel and a pack of peanuts and stow away on their ship. :D

TrueMaya
2004-Jun-25, 01:24 AM
To SpaceMad. Sp1ke and Akbar,
About the post by SpaceMad: Does it make a difference where you live? With respect to time… how can time be different for different part of the galaxy or even the universe? Time is rather relative and I kinda understand the concept of time slowing down (?) when you travel at the speed of light; but time is time where ever you are. A second can be called an hour or anything, but that does not change the fact that a second is a second. :unsure:
I mean I can call a certain distance two kilometers or a mile, but that does change the actual distance between two points. So my question is: can time speed up and slow down in different parts of the universe? And as in Asimov’s story, as close as Mars? And does the speed of light get affected.
In which case, if we do achieve interstellar travel, we will slow down and speed up according to the route we take.
Perception of time may change, I think an hour is short but to my 10 year old cousin it may be long. But doesn’t perception depend upon the brain. A fly reacts faster to stimulus, an experienced operator faster than me, but that does not make a second less than a second, does it?
I agree with you about communication, we often don’t understand each other and I don’t know if even mathematics will work.
Different realities, I accept. Dimensions, choices, do we really exist???
This concept confuses me and it’s be great if you could explain it to me.
Thanks. :)

Jan
2004-Jun-25, 01:34 AM
if you ask me i believe that meeting an alien would make me really scared......



but if i would not be alone i wouldnt be so scared



but what woold be the impact with the church and other people.....
the consequences could be devastaiting and the life itself would be in danger...

but what if church knows.....the truth and its in control of the informations?

and its not allowing aliens to make their first step?

or maybe the goverment is afraid what will this impact make in the religins that are stil many in the world?


jan

Sp1ke
2004-Jun-25, 10:56 AM
TrueMaya,

The difference in time is subjective. In your example of distances, 2 kilometres to an ant would seem much further than it would to you or me because they see the world on a different scale to us.

If you imagine an alien race that thought and acted at the same speed as flies do on earth, a minute to them might seem like an hour to us. So if we were talking to them, they&#39;d probably have forgotten their question by the time we got round to answering them ;)

Given the difference in perceiving time between, say, a fly and and elephant then there&#39;s the possibility that aliens also operated faster or slower than us. That would make communication difficult but not impossible. If there were planet-sized aliens already talking to us but their sentences lasted 100 years each, would we even realise we were part of a conversation?

TrueMaya
2004-Jun-25, 03:30 PM
Sp1ke,
So I figured out what you were taking about. The length or duration that a second may posses may be subjective, but that doesn’t change the fact that a second is a second. So a second is a second, but the enterprising alien (or otherwise) just packs enough into it than I do, right? :)
So time, like distance, remains the same, but we just react to it differently.
I really like the idea of a 100 year conversation. If we did met aliens like that, suppose in a way, it would give us something tangible to work for, together as a planet not as different countries.
Thanks.

Spacemad
2004-Jun-25, 10:14 PM
:) Thanks for your comments, TrueMaya, but I think Sp1ke has put our answers in a nutshell&#33;

I&#39;ll try to answer more fully during the weekend as I don´t have the time right now.