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imported_ROB
2004-Jul-21, 07:55 AM
hi all
just thinking about simple life, if titan is habitable do you think it would be worth introducing some earth based bacteria to see how it survives and evolves. or would it be far to dangerous? what are your thoughts?

devilmech
2004-Jul-21, 08:03 AM
Dangerous is a relative term. If there were pre-existing life, and we introduced extra-body organisms, then we run the risk of inducing alien mutations and destroying a self-contained system, which would preclude any viable study of this system. However, if we do not find any life, it doesn't mean that it isn't there, just that we lack the ability to detect it. Therefore, anything we do is potentially dangerous.

Sp1ke
2004-Jul-21, 02:43 PM
I'm with Devilmech on this one. I think it's a very short-sighted approach to seed Titan with earth-based lifeforms. Once they're there, they will potentially mask or corrupt any of the local life that might be there.

My opinion is that we should treat any other planets with care and not just go wading in without thought.

imported_ROB
2004-Jul-21, 02:46 PM
totally agree we shouldent disrupt an envoroment that already excists but what if there is no living organisums up there? then would it be a great experriment to begin to see how life evolves, changes over comes etc

Tinaa
2004-Jul-21, 05:20 PM
We will probably be introducing bacteria to Titan anyway. I doubt all the bugs were killed before launch nor while traveling through space.

Tiny
2004-Jul-21, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Tinaa@Jul 21 2004, 05:20 PM
We will probably be introducing bacteria to Titan anyway. I doubt all the bugs were killed before launch nor while traveling through space.
:lol: Why don't we freeze up them and then ship them to Titan, you know space temeperature is 2.7 K below absolute zero.

MoonZeroTwo
2004-Jul-21, 06:37 PM
If there's microbial life on Titan already, how do we examine it cleanly? It is like Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle - by plunging our meauring stick into the porridge we are contaminating it & thus contaminating our measurements.

It's amazing how we worry about microbes on another world but lions on this planet are a dying breed (http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991500)

StarLab
2004-Jul-22, 12:09 AM
But observing microorganisms on another world may take time. A lotta time.

QJones
2004-Jul-25, 08:56 PM
First off, I think that we should carefully examine for indigenous life. Barring any discovery (after a pre-determined amount of time), I think that it should be adapted to profit humanity.

Seeding it with bacteria to observe evolution would not be wise. Firstly, evolution is an extremely slow process. Second, it is too valuable a resource to spend on a petri dish experiment.

Please note that nigh-infinite resources could be spent looking for pre-existing life on Titan (or Mars). In the end, in a cost-benefit analysis, we'd have to stop spending resources on the place, and start pulling resources on it.

DarkChapter
2004-Jul-26, 05:02 AM
I agree with QJones, that the search for life on another planet would be an extremely tiresome and time consuming one. We are constantly finding life on earth in places we would never have previously thought of ie: bacteria living around black smokers where the water temp is around boiling point (not at deep sea intense pressure of course). How could we possibly scour an entire new planet, inside and out to determine if there is any life? There could be just one soupy lake somewhere that could be teeming with life, and we could miss it totally.

To the matter of introducing bacteria to a newly discovered planet, it is an interesting concept filled with moral and ethical dilemas. If we were to try this, how would we possibly monitor it? A more realistic way would be to take samples and readings of as much of titan as we can, and simulate a terrarium or biodome somewhere here, or on the moon perhaps, and then introduce bacteria to it. We could also 'play God' to a certain extent, by changing conditions, forcing "un"natural selection and having the bacteria evolve how we want it to.

In regards to your post Tiny, just to clarify, I think you meant 2.7K above absolute zero, not below.

GOURDHEAD
2004-Jul-28, 06:14 PM
We could also 'play God' to a certain extent, by changing conditions, forcing "un"natural selection and having the bacteria evolve how we want it to

There is no un-natural selection. We are part of nature and nature has allowed us to evolve a level of curiosity that guarantees we will spread our microbes all across not only the solar system but also the entire universe. Where life has not evolved sufficiently to resist us, we will overwhelm it. If not us then some other aspect of nature. Ethically, we must make certain that the overwhelming, whoever does it, is compatible with our interests....lest we become the overwhelmees.

Having said this, I too would like to see as much of "alien" life preserved as can be safely done within the constraints of the "overwhelming" conditions cited above.

eburacum45
2004-Jul-28, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by Tiny@Jul 21 2004, 06:30 PM
:lol: Why don't we freeze up them and then ship them to Titan, you know space temeperature is 2.7 K below absolute zero.
I can't see how the temperature of space can be below absolute zero, sorry.

GOURDHEAD
2004-Jul-29, 07:33 PM
I can't see how the temperature of space can be below absolute zero, sorry.

That may be because you haven't contemplated negative energy which may relate to such temperatures.

Victoria
2004-Aug-25, 01:06 AM
<_< <_< Transfer of microbes...to survive could most likely be beneficial more than a waste, especially if it were a planned event. Simple little tadpoles or Kodiaks&#39;- creatures that defy the elements are the pre-wonders of the world.

ironpirate
2004-Aug-25, 01:09 AM
It&#39;s quite probable that life arose here on Earth do to contamination from space.

Victoria
2004-Aug-25, 01:20 AM
Consequently, millions upon millions of microbes ago; perhaps, that one simple cell took off on the division of H2O and ... :P

Bridh Hancock
2004-Aug-27, 09:40 AM
This is a bit late, but...
Do not introduce only one lot of bacteria, but enuf species for an assemblage of life-forms to form that will live together. Simply, there should be organisms that graze, and others (the wolves) that feed upon the &#39;sheep&#39;; all of this to form something of an ecology. We all said and believe, not before we know what it there and if life is there. But, what sort of lives are we sending our little critters out to live?, and for how long will they &#39;enjoy&#39; it? Brrr&#33;--don&#39;t send me&#33;

John L
2004-Aug-27, 03:46 PM
I&#39;m with Gourdhead. I say spread life from Earth far and wide. If you start with bacteria then use ones that photosynthesize so oxygen production can begin. Those extremophiles that live just under the surface of rocks in Antarctica would be a good start. I say send batches of them to both of Mars&#39; poles and any other spot where there may be water, and to Ganymede, Callisto, and Titan (although Titan&#39;s average temperature is a few hundred degrees Farenheit below zero and gets little sunlight). Anything to get the expansion of Earth life started is a step in the right direction to me.