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Fraser
2004-Jul-27, 06:05 PM
SUMMARY: Researchers from the University of Washington have developed a theory which links together Dark Energy - the mysterious force that's accelerating the Universe - with the recent discovery that neutrinos have mass. They believe the link comes from the interaction between neutrinos and undiscovered subatomic particles called "accelerons". Dark energy results when the Universe tries to pull the neutrons and accelerons apart. One interesting prediction from this theory is that the acceleration of the Universe will slow down as the neutrinos get further apart.

What do you think about this story? Post your comments below.

jsc248
2004-Jul-27, 08:06 PM
:( Hi All,
I want to ask a theoretical question!
If the interaction between neutrinos and accelerons is slowing down the expansion of the universe, does this bring back into favour the theory that sometime in the future we will face the big crunch?
The theory that the universe will go on expanding forever until we are left very much alone in our own "space" was until this discovery quite well accepted. If there is enough mass in the universe and this interaction does indeed slow the expansion down significantly, then surely the big crunch should once again come under serious scrutiny!
I'd like to hear what you all think,
jsc248

sarahnade_me
2004-Jul-27, 08:32 PM
I also had the same question only I wanted to know if this would mean that the universe would become calm and just stop moving. In this case i wondered what would happen to all of us if the Universe just ceased to move?

David S
2004-Jul-28, 03:40 AM
At this point the existance of "accelerons" seems to be pure speculation. While they do look like a useful tool to explain dark energy, at this point they are nothing more then a mathmatical figment. Once the proposed experiment to detect these particles is carried out and they are either detected or not detected, then we can start building theories around them. Personally, I think they are jumping the gun a little bit here.

That said, physicists do have a fairly good track record with building a mathmatical model of some hypothetical particle first, and then later on an experiment is devised which detects them (neutrinos, quarks, gluons, virtual particals, ect). This is certainly what they are doing here, but I'm still going to wait until these experiments are done somebody actually detects these particles.

jsc248, I'm not sure if this would allow for a big crunch sometime in the future. They said that as the universe expanded and the neutrinos and accelerons got further apart the force would weaken, however if the universe then began contracting again I assume that force would then get stronger.

Duane
2004-Jul-28, 04:14 AM
They said that as the universe expanded and the neutrinos and accelerons got further apart the force would weaken, however if the universe then began contracting again I assume that force would then get stronger.

That is a interesting observation. Maybe that is what prevents a big crunch--the force between these two particles gets so high it slows, then stops and reverses contraction. The universe can only get to a certain point, never again into a big crunch, before it expands outward again. Hmmm.....

antoniseb
2004-Jul-28, 01:53 PM
Here's a link to the New Scientist coverage of the same story:

New Scientist - Dark Energy and Neutrinos (http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996214)

I like that this theory can be tested with today's equipment.

StarLab
2004-Jul-31, 05:33 AM
Which article was the original one: the Washington U. press release or the NewScientist article?
I like that theory, I shall look into it on my own time, in the mean time keep the posts running on this thread, but I seriously doubt that the acceleron is not a different version of a particle already known to man. For example, had mass not existed, the gluon, W-particle, quark, and electron would have almost exactly the same properties&#33; :ph34r: :unsure: <_< :o

jsc248
2004-Jul-31, 11:08 AM
Hi All,
Thanks for the replys and the links. Your thoughts are interesting and thought provoking. Just one more theoretical point, "if" there is enough dark energy/acceleron interaction to just slow us down, what happens to the gravitational constant at the point at which expansion stops?. Does the universe just "stop dead in it&#39;s tracks"? or does a universal gravitational loss create a counter gravitational force which lets everything just drift apart? What do you think?
jsc248

GOURDHEAD
2004-Jul-31, 05:06 PM
This theory seems to plunge more deeply into fantasy than the shmoo field which due to its hyper-dimensional fantasy can easily accommodate it.


If the interaction between neutrinos and accelerons is slowing down the expansion of the universe, does this bring back into favour the theory that sometime in the future we will face the big crunch?

The Custodians will never let the big crunch "materialize".


Does the universe just "stop dead in it&#39;s tracks"? or does a universal gravitational loss create a counter gravitational force which lets everything just drift apart? What do you think?

There is no universal gravitational loss; gravity as a property of geometry cannot be lost and due to the "elasticity" of the shmoo field properties, a perpetual oscillation is supported. The universe can not be other than a perpetual motion machine because it can not give up energy to anything, anywhere, or anytime (there goes time travel) else. On the other hand, no finite section of the universe is likely to be perpetual.

StarLab
2004-Jul-31, 05:20 PM
The universe can not be other than a perpetual motion machine because it can not give up energy to anything, anywhere, or anytime (there goes time travel) else.Oh, boy :o ...Ziggy&#39;s not gonna like that... :mellow: :ph34r: :wacko: :unsure: :(

howard2
2004-Jul-31, 08:24 PM
I think that this dark matter and neutrinos which are maybe being being manufactured from the mass already present in stars is not adding anything and therefore it is the old story of not seeing the wood for the trees.
By observing the nature of things, it would be more reasonable to expect that we are being stretched by outside forces like an almost empty baloon in a sealed in a jar from which the air is evacuated.
Our EMF ( Electro-magnet field)(Also called Zero Point Energy) is probably of a much higher density than the Great Big Nothing we are expanding into.
It seems reasonable that the only time that the Universe was dense enough and hot enough to create sub-atomic particles was during the first moments. It subsiquently not possible for matter to be creared at this late stage. What we have is all that we have.
I am considering the consept, that some black-holes will be bleeding energy out of our system by causing a ruptures in the Event-Horizon. This together with the force that is fuelling the accelleration of the expansion, means that there will never be a Big-Crunch. This thought experiment allowes for a natural cycle.

Rather than looking for some mysterious unnatural and obscure forces. consider that there are gravitational tidal forces crossing the event horizon from the outside that are paying for the extra velocities we observe in the rotation of galaxies.
Our bubble Universe is reasonably, one of a multitude created during the first moments of the Big-Bang. Because our bubble has mass we also have an event horizon which being a one way membrane effetively isolates anyone inside a buble from seeing any other.
The inflationary period has been confirmed recently and was probably paid for during the annihilation period of the matter, anti-matter. which gives 100% conversion of mass to energy. Very shortly aftewards we had Mass and came under the influece of space-time and gravity and hence a constant accellerating expansion into the Big-Nothing.
Hubble&#39;s Law states that the further away an object is the faster it is going. This is an exponetial law and not a linear law. So the expansion must be accellerating.
:)