View Full Version : The begining

2004-Aug-20, 03:47 AM
Stephen Hawking, in his no boundary proposal, said that the universe is four dimensional. Now, we can see that time as a separate entity, but, at the begining, Time was just another dimension of space. Which means that we cannot talk of things happenng ' in time'. The nature of time itself becomes a question. Then, if there was no time back then, how can we talk of the begining ? If there is no time, what happens to the passing of time? Does the universe become truly four dimensional then ( or 'there' ) ?

Another thing: That the universe bagan at a singularity is proved only be Penrose's theorems. These are applicable only when the force of gravity is always attractive. Now, inflation makes use of the fact that antigravitating forms of matter exist. How can we be sure of a singular begining if inflation is true? ( Also, search is on for a ' cosmological constant' .)

Thanks to John D. Barrow.

P.S. this is not a question. It is intended to be the begining of a discussion. So please don't move it.

2004-Aug-20, 07:00 AM
...perhaps I don't understand your question, but I was not aware that time was an "entity". I thought time was a human concept. A linear measurement of the ever changing configuration of the Universe. Your question all but answers itself. Time, beginning, end, are all descriptions of parameters and order necessary for the human mind in its attempt to comprehend. The only "time" that exists is the present moment. The present configuration is present for that moment, the next moment the entire Universe has assumed a different configuration. The past is that which you paid attention to out of all the stimuli you were bombarded with. The future is a presumptive expectation. When someone says the Universe is 13.7 Billions years old, what real information are you receiving? Time is spoken of as if it were One of the Absolutes. How many hours in day? 24. correct, sometimes. How many days in a year? 365. Close enough, most of the time. What is a year? Well it's when the earth completes one full orbit around the sun. You mean when it returns to the spot from where it started? Well, it never does. Understand that the possibilty exists for truly intelligent Other life in the Universe, whose interpretation of 'their' Universe would not even contain the concept of time.......an idea can be relayed by declaration or by being inferred. Think about Mr. Einstein's quote: :unsure:

"Time is not at all what it seems. It does not flow in one direction, and the future exists simultaneously with the past." A. Einstein :ph34r:

2004-Aug-20, 12:42 PM
Time is definitely different from space. We can feel it passing, the past is different from the present. We can travel in only one direction in space. And I believe that it is not only because of our evolution, but that our universe, at least, is four dimensional, with one of them different, in which only one directional travel is possible, which we have labelled 'Time'.

2004-Aug-20, 05:31 PM
....it certainly appears that way :D

"Reality is an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." A. Einstein :)

2004-Sep-08, 10:45 AM
kase aahat rahul apan, go-ni-dandekaranche apan koni lagtay ka?

well may be the universe has dimensions but not four exactly, you see there are 8 sides : east/west/north/south and agney/nairutya/vayavya/ishanya, so whether these sides have any meaning in forming sides of universe?,
so i think the universe is more sided in shape,
sunil deshpande

2004-Sep-09, 07:25 AM
Four dimensions means Lenght, breadth, height and Time. Don't confuse them with the directions. Dimensions mean the number of co-ordinates we need to specify any point in our universe.

Well, what do you think of Time becoming similar to space at the universe's begining. The ultimate unification, eh?

2004-Sep-10, 05:31 AM
"Time is not at all what it seems. It does not flow in only one direction, and the future exists simultaneously with the past." Mr. Albert Einstein :unsure:

John L
2004-Sep-10, 04:25 PM
Time is not separate from space. Space-Time is a single thing per General Relativity. As stated above, they are the four coordinates needed to locate any point in space-time. If you tell your friend to meet you at your 3rd floor apartment on the corner of 15th Street and 2nd Avenue you've given the 3 spatial dimensions of the location you want to meet, but if you fail to add what time to meet then he could show up at anytime and you miss each other completely. By adding that you want to meet at noon on Saturday, you have now given the full four dimensional meeting place in Space-Time.

2004-Sep-24, 03:04 PM
Great analogy. Actually, it is hypothysized that our universe is made up of eleven dimensions. The four you describe are only the ones that we can more or less directly perceive. :unsure: