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talls_sister
2005-Jan-22, 07:44 AM
Will the sun outlive life on earth?

This is a question that i ask myself everyday. How long will it take until global warming destroys our earths atmosphere? Could or will our sun outlive our planet?
I think this is very possible. Just think about it for a second.... we dont really look after our atmosphere like we should do.
When life on earth was first created there was no transport, buildings, roads, industrial waste or farmers. Only animals. Imagine what our planet looked like 3 million years ago. I sure bet that there was nothing polluting the clean air.
On the other hand the sun has another 5 billion years to live (approx)
The earth could change more than we could ever imagine in that time.....so i believe that humans wont be around for much longer at the rate were burning fossil fuels. if anyone has anything to say on this topic, please let me know. :)

rahuldandekar
2005-Jan-22, 12:38 PM
Hi Talls_sister, Welcome to the forum!

You must be tlking about life on earth, and not the planet itself. Earth, possibly, will last long, but life on it may not. We might die out in hundred years, or it may take millions.

This was also discussed in another thread: Not urgent but...

StarLab
2005-Jan-22, 05:37 PM
I think the earth would say buh-bye to humans (either by extinction or moving off the planet) in the next few thousand years. Life would essentially exist on earth until the Sun dies. So, terrestrial life and the Sun began about the same time, and will die off together. Whether we'll be there to witness that is a different question...

heyzeus321@yahoo.com
2005-Jan-22, 07:56 PM
GLobal warming isn't as bad ad some people report. The polar icecaps that they said were melting, apparantly they found that the ice that was missing just shifted and gave the impression that it was gone. Not to say global warming doesn't exist bt it not as bad. I'm pretty optimistic that we won't be on fossil fuels for much longer.

Bluewolf027
2005-Jan-22, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by heyzeus321@yahoo.com@Jan 22 2005, 12:56 PM
GLobal warming isn't as bad ad some people report. The polar icecaps that they said were melting, apparantly they found that the ice that was missing just shifted and gave the impression that it was gone. Not to say global warming doesn't exist bt it not as bad. I'm pretty optimistic that we won't be on fossil fuels for much longer.
Im not sure why anyone would say that global warming is not as bad as they said it is... heres a story about some of the newer findings on global warming. It seems since we also put alot of particulate emmissions into the atmosphere through the buring of wood coal etc. It in effect has cancelled out part of the global warming that should have occured. As we are bringing particulate emmisions under control with polluction laws etc. And it is expected that greenhouse gas emmissions are going to rise over the next ten years it could mean bad things for our climate... Read...

Why The Sun Seems To Be Dimming (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4171591.stm)

RUF
2005-Jan-22, 11:22 PM
O, you young kids and your "global warming."

Humans can adapt to changes in the weather -- we have for 5 million years-- and if we don't- so mote it be. That's why God gave us random genetic mutations and survival of the fittest.

We will not be able to adapt to an asteroid or comet smacking into the Earth. This will happen long before the Sun "dies-out"

So- we need to move off the Earth, or we WILL NOT outlast our Sun.

Bluewolf027
2005-Jan-22, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by RUF@Jan 22 2005, 04:22 PM
O, you young kids and your "global warming."

Humans can adapt to changes in the weather -- we have for 5 million years-- and if we don't- so mote it be. That's why God gave us random genetic mutations and survival of the fittest.

We will not be able to adapt to an asteroid or comet smacking into the Earth. This will happen long before the Sun "dies-out"

So- we need to move off the Earth, or we WILL NOT outlast our Sun.
I agree we need to explore space - but global warming is a serious issue - as the story I linked to in my earlier post reads - it is possible that by the year 2100 parts of the earth will be uninhabitable.

The problem with this isnt that we wont adapt, humans will survive global warming. The problem is that we are the root cause of the problem and yet we do nothing to prevent it. We are beginning to have the foresight to see what we are doing to our planet, and yet we still do nothing to prevent it. The earth is our home and currently society puts more value in economics and politics than they do into science and learning to protect what we have rather than destroy it. It is our children who will suffer for our actions today if we do not change things. Societys current way of thinking is flawed...hopefully we will decide to change things while we still can.

Also it can hardly be considered survival of the fittest if it is us who causes the problem and kills off half of the worlds species...alters the earths climate...renders parts of our planet inhabitable. Survival of the fittest would suggest survival through something of natural causes not surviving our own stupidity.

StarLab
2005-Jan-23, 12:09 AM
Bluewolf, you're older than me yet you do not have a good scientific understanding of the issue.

The problem is that we are the root cause of the problem and yet we do nothing to prevent it. We are not the root cause - humans certainly give boost to it, no doubt, but since when were we the sole cause?


We are beginning to have the foresight to see what we are doing to our planet, and yet we still do nothing to prevent it. The earth is our home and currently society puts more value in economics and politics than they do into science and learning to protect what we have rather than destroy it. It is our children who will suffer for our actions today if we do not change things. Societys current way of thinking is flawed...hopefully we will decide to change things while we still can. OK - here I agree with you.


Also it can hardly be considered survival of the fittest if it is us who causes the problem and kills off half of the worlds species...alters the earths climate...renders parts of our planet inhabitable. Survival of the fittest would suggest survival through something of natural causes not surviving our own stupidity. You're right - what were doing should not be considered survivial of the fitttest. But who said it was? And just because almost most of the mammals and fish in a particular area die off, doesn't mean every single organism is gone...you seem to be underestimating protista and monera.

Erimus
2005-Jan-23, 02:01 AM
Of course the Sun will outlast life on this Earth. Keep in mind that in comparison to the Sun's lifetime, all of human history is like a passing shadow. Even in the worst global warming scenario, we're talking about something that would be a blip over say, a very short million-year timespan.

heyzeus321@yahoo.com
2005-Jan-23, 03:32 AM
I'm not saying Global warming doesn't exist but we will change sources of energy faster than it could severely damage (I'm talking destroy) the Earth. I mean the sea level rises 2mm per year, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. 2 (milli)(meters). I'm just saying, optimistically, that we will get off fossil fuels, it just takes a short amount of time, comparitivly to destruction of the Earth.

talls_sister
2005-Jan-23, 04:45 AM
Ok people i think were getting a little off track here. When i started this forum issue the heading was: Will the sun outlive life on earth? No one that has replied has thought of any other senario's of what could happen in the next centuary or greater.

Anything else could change our planet as much as global warming, we just might not see it quite yet. Im saying for example: pollution- as we see it, its not that bigger deal, maybe just some smoke over sydney or newcastle but think of the effect it has on the environment ( this cant be good).

Natural disasters happen naturally of course but there might be some explanation that links humans to them since we are part of nature. As i see it humans will end our own existance.

I agree with Bluewolf027 [QUOTE]The problem is that we are the root cause of the problem and yet we do nothing to prevent it.

Sephiroth Leonhart
2005-Jan-23, 05:37 AM
Ofcourse the sun will outlive life on Earth. But it won't be by far. When the sun expands and becomes a red giant in say 5 billion years time, it will become much hotter and melt the planet. All life will be gone. The sun it'self will die shortly after.

StarLab
2005-Jan-23, 06:20 AM
Look Sis, you gotta be more specific. It seemed from your initial query you referred to all terrestrial earth life, yet from your last post you refer to humans. Pick one, here's my response to both:

Life - will continue indefinitely until the sun begins its bloating phase

Humans - number of possible scenarios:
We leave earth after polluting it beyond repair to most chordata
We leave earth in great shape
We stay on earth and pollute it
We reform ourselves, but an asteroid wipes us out anyways

IMHO there are no other alternatives for consideration. However if I'm missing something, please inform me.

rahuldandekar
2005-Jan-23, 06:26 AM
Starlab, "we leave the earth in great shape" , at least now, seems impossible ever.

"We stay on earth and pollute it" will lead to " We leave the earth after polluting it". Asteroids won't wipe us out, since we can put a good use to our nukes then, and burst the asteroid.

One more : We nuke each other. That seems more probable, right?

StarLab
2005-Jan-23, 06:30 AM
Look, I can be a pessimist too, but look how close we came during the Cold War yet we held back. What does that tell y'all about the Triumphs of the Human Spirit?

rahuldandekar
2005-Jan-23, 06:34 AM
It tells more about the triumphs of human fear. Sorry, Starlab, but I belive we will nuke someone else if we didn't fear that they can nuke us back. US and Russia feared that a nuke from one side would mean similar retaliation, and so they stopped.
I think so, but you live in the US. Do you think I am wrong?

StarLab
2005-Jan-23, 06:37 AM
No I don't, but the world shoulda learned something from that experience. Are you telling me it hasn't?

talls_sister
2005-Jan-23, 06:39 AM
No asteroid would be able to hit earth bacause venus is so big that is throws them off course. and if not that then the moon would stop the collision.
im happy to be living in Australia.

rahuldandekar
2005-Jan-23, 06:40 AM
That generation has, but the new generations, raised on war-violence-adventure films, not having experianced that, won't think twice about that. Wait 50 years, until someone of our generation becomes president...

StarLab
2005-Jan-23, 06:42 AM
You're right, but as I've always said a person should try not to be doing the All Talk No Action flick.

And Sis, what you said has the potential to make every scientists worldwide wanna puke after reading what you just posted. I think for purposes sake you should stay on the UT forums, if not just to at least get a good education in astronomy and related sciences. I think that's all we can offer you at this point.
Oh, and welcome to the UT forums.

rahuldandekar
2005-Jan-23, 06:50 AM
Sis, I think what Starlab said is right, and Remembar that the moon and Venus, or Mars would not have any effect on an asteroid heading for earth. For venus, you could ( logically) argue that the earth would protect it. For the moon too. When scientists calculate that an asterid is going to hit the earth, they take all the gravitaional effects into consideration. Venus can't save us.

StarLab
2005-Jan-23, 06:52 AM
So when an asteroid does come at us and we cannot stop it, we just have to follow the wise, sagely saying: put on your Nikes and outrun everyone else.

rahuldandekar
2005-Jan-23, 06:56 AM
I say, put on your nukes and destroy the enemy ( the asteroid that is). If an asteroid does threaten the earth, that would be such a scenario, with all nations uniting against it. ( If we can destroy the asteroid ) I would love to see that day.

jamerz3294
2005-Jan-23, 07:48 AM
The answer to your original question, as posted, is; yes. The sun will far outlive any life on earth. Period. At some point the sun will consume the earth anyway, so there ya go.

eburacum45
2005-Jan-25, 08:12 PM
Actually there is a reasonable chance that the Earth will survive into the Sun's white dwarf phase; the first red giant phase may not reach out as far as thae Earth's orbit, and mass loss by the Sun will mean that the Earth's orbit will become slightly larger; it may well survive until the star becomes a tiny white dwarf.
However no life as we know it could survive.

StarLab
2005-Jan-25, 08:53 PM
Eburacum, evidence and experimentation has proven already that the sun will extend beyond earth's orbit. However, there's speculation going around that as the sun expands, it'll push the earth farther away thereby keeping it out of harm's way.

John L
2005-Jan-25, 10:10 PM
Even if the Earth's orbit does expand as the sun grows into its red giant phase, the key word in Eburacum45's post is the sun's "mass loss." When the sun starts shedding its outer layers these will expand out beyond the outer reaches of the solar system, and, unfortunately, right through the Earth's orbit. If we did migrate outward and survive the initial red giant phase, the later shedding will fry us like a marshmellow over a campfire.

StarLab
2005-Jan-26, 01:35 AM
Okay, true - we don't wanna be there when the Sun goes nova. It will never supernova, though, and I think that the most the nova could do is peel off the top of earth's crust.

GOURDHEAD
2005-Jan-26, 01:57 AM
....I think that the most the nova could do is peel off the top of earth's crust. I have a different view of this. A super nova would blast by the Earth rapidly enough to leave it in place but severely singed. If the nova engulfs the Earth and keeps it engulfed for a few years, the Earth will evaporate and its constituents will waft off into space.

PSR1257+12 (http://www.obspm.fr/encycl/cat-puls.html) has planets which I believe survived its super nova stage.

Jakenorrish
2005-Feb-01, 03:11 PM
I doubt I'll be around to see it!!

astromark
2005-Feb-05, 11:00 AM
By the time we need to concider this as a threat. If we havent distroyed ourselvse. We may well have the teck., knowledge to move this planet out ferther to avoid all that heat and energies the sun will throw this way, and then as she enters the red dewarf stage we could move back closer to it so as to continue living for ever after.......
The real danger to our servival is our selves. Or a Earth impacting asteroid or comet. And we do not yet have the abilaty to shed off this threat as you sagest we might. Our complacency could be our downfall. Its the ones that have been close to other bodies in our system that may hook around the sun and be comming strait down our throats before we can say.... Oh bugger. We cant count on Satern and Jupiter to sweep all befor us. Go out side and look up. Some of the streecks you see have traveled millions of AU. just for that moment. So the answer to the origanal question is ...maybe.

j0seph
2005-Feb-05, 08:56 PM
ok.... dont you think within 5 Billion years we will have developed means of creating shields around entire planets? or even moving them?... I think that if we are not struck down by some meteor, victims of our own technology or die out because of lack of genetic diversity.... we will out live our sun... or maybe some time before 5 billion years is up we have figured out a way to sustain our sun indefinatly.... or even creating one of our own... just a few things to think about.

nomadicdemon
2005-Feb-09, 12:26 AM
hah, these forums are awesome......I think that Global warming and blahblah blah....I say, if Humans can create a clean.....not CLEANER, a clean fuel, for cars and everything else, maybe the whole "the planet is dying" issue will reverse.....but who knows