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suntrack2
2005-May-14, 10:35 AM
It is roughly called the barycentre : when two or more objects rotates with a point that is called as barycentre, the barry centre can be fix with one equation.
mass of the earth = M=6x10rest to power 24kg, distance of barycentre from the centre of the earth=x km, the moons mass= m=7.5x10rest to power 22kg
distance between earth and moon=Y km=384000 km, the equation is MxX=m(Y-X) if we put the above values in this equation :6x10rest to power24x X =7.5x10rest to power 21x(384000-X), therefore X=4740Km and the redius of the earth=6400 it means the barycentre of the earth and moon is on 4740km distance.

the centre of the earth rotates with the barycentre in 27 days, the barycentre of sun and jupiter will be 48000 km,

and in 2130 the barycentre of the solarsystem from the sun's centre will be only 14599 km.

your ideas ! please quote.

imported_Thomas
2005-May-14, 03:50 PM
I don't think all your figures are quite correct:
you get the distance of the barycentre from the centre of the heavier body by multiplying the distance between the two bodies by the mass ratio of the lighter to the heavier body. This yields roughly the following barycentre distances:
Sun-Jupiter: 700 000 km (i.e. just above the sun's surface)
Sun-Saturn: 390 000 km
Sun-Neptune: 220 000 km
Sun-Uranus: 120 000 km
the other planets produce much smaller offsets (e.g. Sun- Earth : 500 km)
By adding and subtracting these values in various ways one can see that, depending on the positions of the planets, the barycentre can be located anywhere from the centre of the sun to about a distance of 2 solar radii from the sun's centre.

Your earth-moon barycentre distance is correct however.

astromark
2005-May-14, 10:56 PM
This is real science. To calculate this all corectly you need to know some rather important information; that being the mass of each object in the equation and its position. The orbital distance of each conponent and its valocity have a bering on the calculation of the Barycentre. Yes the gravatational centre of the solar system moves in a rather eliptical path not to far from the centre of thr solar mass. On the rare ocasion that Satern, Jupiter, and the inner planets are all on the same side of the system. The gravatational centre would be at its extrem distance from the solar centre. The orbital machanics of this system are well documented. Just concider the positioning of the Cassini space probe.
A Mr Bob Mitchell of the JPL NASA team is well up to this task. He,they have placed that space craft within A hundred metres of its target, and since have corected that error. Bravo chaps.

Guest
2005-May-15, 10:10 PM
The barycenter does not move. It is the Sun that moves around the barycenter. Here is an image of the Sun's travels around the barycenter of the solar system. This simulates the Sun's motion for 200 years. The Sun has been reduced to a point to make the illustration clearer.
http://orbitsimulator.com/orbiter/sun2.GIF

For comparison, here is the size of the Sun.
http://orbitsimulator.com/orbiter/sun1.GIF

astromark
2005-May-16, 08:09 AM
Well, I'm sorry but, I can not agree. The Barycenter. The Sun and all Of the Planets are noving constantly. To argue the Barycenter doea not move is trivial nonsence. Pidantic rubish.
Your image of the suns track is only part of the story,. Although good.
I do understand your point that its the sun and planets that vairy there distance from the barycenter. You must conceed that The barycenter is just the imaginary point that all are orbiting. Of corse its moving.
Sounds like I am disagreeing with you? No just seeing things difrently.

Nereid
2005-May-16, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by astromark@May 16 2005, 08:09 AM
Well, I'm sorry but, I can not agree. The Barycenter. The Sun and all Of the Planets are noving constantly. To argue the Barycenter doea not move is trivial nonsence. Pidantic rubish.
Your image of the suns track is only part of the story,. Although good.
I do understand your point that its the sun and planets that vairy there distance from the barycenter. You must conceed that The barycenter is just the imaginary point that all are orbiting. Of corse its moving.
Sounds like I am disagreeing with you? No just seeing things difrently.
With respect to what (or who?) is the barycentre moving astromark? How could that motion be described?

That's those cool graphics Guest!

tony873004
2005-May-16, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by astromark@May 16 2005, 08:09 AM
Well, I'm sorry but, I can not agree. The Barycenter. The Sun and all Of the Planets are noving constantly. To argue the Barycenter doea not move is trivial nonsence. Pidantic rubish.
Your image of the suns track is only part of the story,. Although good.
I do understand your point that its the sun and planets that vairy there distance from the barycenter. You must conceed that The barycenter is just the imaginary point that all are orbiting. Of corse its moving.
Sounds like I am disagreeing with you? No just seeing things difrently.
I'll claim the guest post. Didn't realize that I wasn't logged in.

You're right that the barycenter is just an imaginary point. Although part of the Sun often occupies the barycenter, it is not required that anything be there.

But as Nereid asked, "with respect to what?"

The solar system's barycenter will move with respect to objects outside the solar system. The barycenter orbits the galaxy.

With respect to the Sun (consider the Sun to be stationary) the barycenter also moves. But by pinning down the Sun, you're introducing an accelerating frame.

The barycenter is the only place in the solar system that you can treat as the stationary middle, about which all objects orbit, and still maintain a stationary, non-accelerating frame.

Nereid, are you the same Nereid from physicsforums.com?

Nereid
2005-May-16, 06:33 PM
Nereid, are you the same Nereid from physicsforums.com?
Would you like me to be? Or prefer that there were two different people?

I love mysteries ... should we take a vote? :P

Does the other Nereid ask lots of questions?

tony873004
2005-May-16, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by Nereid@May 16 2005, 06:33 PM
Would you like me to be? Or prefer that there were two different people?

I love mysteries ... should we take a vote? :P

Does the other Nereid ask lots of questions?
Well... It'd be nice if you weren't. 2 Nereids are better than 1.

But I think I've blown your cover!! :ph34r:

I vote that Nereid and Nereid are one and the same.

Nereid
2005-May-16, 10:31 PM
IF 'cover' = 'using the same name', THEN 'Nereid' = 'pretty silly' :P

astromark
2005-May-17, 09:40 AM
Now we are getting silly. . . If I call myself mark. Then theres a good chance thats who I am. Neried is Neried. Tony874004 might be tony? dont ya think...?
I am now happy with the Barycenter thing... and thats good. mark.,as astromark.

suntrack2
2005-May-17, 12:45 PM
the barycentre is going towards a "movie story",?
nice nerid, fine astromark, funtastic image guest,

sunil

tony873004
2005-May-17, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by astromark@May 17 2005, 09:40 AM
Tony874004 might be tony?

Is it that obvious?? :lol: Now I guess my cover is blown :o

aeolus
2005-May-17, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by Guest@May 15 2005, 10:10 PM
The Sun has been reduced to a point to make the illustration clearer.

Thank goodness you reduced the sun to a point, otherwise it might have ended up looking like a mess of intertwined loops and squiggles. ha ha!

I'm just joking; thanks for the graphic, tony. It does illustrate the point.

(get it? illustrate, point? eh?)