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The Rat
2001-Dec-14, 02:35 AM
There just isn't a category on here to which this properly belongs, but I guess this is the closest. I just received this in my e-mail from a fellow member of the Ontario Skeptics Society for Critical Inquiry. Sounds as if some of you (You know who you are!) might be interested.

http://66.108.177.107/SF/sf_citations.shtml

James
2001-Dec-14, 11:39 AM
[quote]
On 2001-12-13 21:35, The Rat wrote:
There just isn't a category on here to which this properly belongs, but I guess this is the closest. I just received this in my e-mail from a fellow member of the Ontario Skeptics Society for Critical Inquiry. Sounds as if some of you (You know who you are!) might be interested.

http://66.108.177.107/SF/sf_citations.shtml</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

No go here. Keep getting:

Network Error
Unable to request URL from host 66.108.177.107:80 through proxy server null:0: Operation timed out

GrapesOfWrath
2001-Dec-14, 12:08 PM
I found it all right. Maybe they turn their server off at night. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

It is an organization trying to do first citation research for the OED, in the field of science fiction. They have a list of words and phrases, and their results so far.

Shouldn't be hard to come up with a citation for avatar in the sense of a VR representation of a person (earliest reference so far is 1992), Klingon (the earliest reference is 1968??--see phaser), light sail before 1976 (I think I read it in Boys Life twelve years before), skyhook (all they need is someone with access to Science archives).

David Hall
2001-Dec-14, 12:49 PM
I'm amazed, or rather not really amazed, by the number of entries that originated with Heinlein, Clarke, and Niven. Azimov has a few, but not to the extent of the first 3.

Some of the words, especially Nivenisms, seem to be quite a bit specialized though. There's that word ansible again, for example. I've only ever seen it in LeGuin's novels. Is it really common enough to put into the OED? But I wonder why they don't have the Acronyms TANJ and TANSTAAFL there. Maybe they're considered more general-purpose, or the origins are certain?

It's a cool idea, soliciting help from actual readers. I wish I could help out more. If I had the ability, I'd be sending in citations. They need to find a few people who have saved up 70 years of AMAZING SCIENCE FICTION and such. They'd certainly be made welcome.

Russ
2001-Dec-17, 10:16 PM
"snip"
But I wonder why they don't have the Acronyms TANJ and TANSTAAFL there.
"snip"


I'll show off my ignorance a little here. What does TANJ & TANSTAAFL mean?

Zandermann
2001-Dec-17, 10:50 PM
What does TANJ & TANSTAAFL mean?TANJ = "there ain't no justice"

TANSTAAFL = "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch"

David Hall
2001-Dec-18, 11:36 AM
/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Russ, you've GOT to read some Larry Niven. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Kaptain K
2001-Dec-18, 06:50 PM
Russ, you've GOT to read some Larry Niven.
and Robert A. Heinlein.

_________________
TANSTAAFL!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kaptain K on 2001-12-18 13:51 ]</font>

Paul Unwin
2001-Dec-18, 07:32 PM
On 2001-12-14 07:49, David Hall wrote:
There's that word ansible again, for example. I've only ever seen it in LeGuin's novels.

Orson Scott Card also used the word for the instantaneous communication device in his Ender novels. In the first novel, one of the characters refers to the device and mentions that the name is from an old science fiction story - probably LeGuin's.

Paul "ansible in my pansible" Unwin

Russ
2001-Dec-18, 07:56 PM
On 2001-12-18 06:36, David Hall wrote:
/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Russ, you've GOT to read some Larry Niven. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


Recreational reading?! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif People actually have time for recreational reading?! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif It must be something that childless apartment dewllers do. DINKs I think they're called. Double Income, No Kids. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Sarcasim asside, yes, I would love to read some Larry Niven. I've read a bunch of Heinline as he was a featured author in my required english classes. I even have several of his books in hardcover, "Stranger In a Strange Land", "Time Enough For Love", "The Number of The Beast" and an anthology of his short stories. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif

Between kid based activities, work and keeping my roof off the ground, I have about 15 seconds of descressionary time each day. Maybe I will fill that time with a Niven book. No, No, No, I can't do that, that's the time I spend on the BABB! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

edit to add emoticons

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Russ on 2001-12-18 15:00 ]</font>

Zandermann
2001-Dec-18, 11:48 PM
OK, Russ...as long as you're not using it, can I borrow your copy of The Number of the Beast? It's about the only Heinlein I haven't read enough times to memorize...

David Hall
2001-Dec-19, 03:54 AM
Don't have time?!?!? There's ALWAYS enough time for SF. 5 minutes on a bus or during lunch breaks, just before bed. Of course, the big problem is once you start you can't put it down again. But that's quibbling. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Seriously, a lot of what Niven wrote is in short-story form. "Tales of Known Space" (which I'm reading again now) and "Neutron Star" (which I just finished) are the perfect primers to his Known Space series. Then, when you have the time, like a vacation or something, you can sit down with a longer one like "Ringworld".

I reread the entire Known Space series a year and a half ago, book by book, and it looks like I'm going to be doing it again.

So no more excuses buddy. Get to cracking those books! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

David Hall
2001-Dec-19, 03:58 AM
On 2001-12-18 14:32, Paul Unwin wrote:

Orson Scott Card also used the word for the instantaneous communication device in his Ender novels. In the first novel, one of the characters refers to the device and mentions that the name is from an old science fiction story - probably LeGuin's.


So, one writer coined a term for an FTL communicator and another borrowed it for his series. Hmm. Still makes me wonder if it deserves inclusion here. Now if it were considered by many as a standard term for such an item, then maybe. But I'm sure most people haven't even heard the word.

ToSeek
2001-Dec-19, 12:44 PM
On 2001-12-18 22:58, David Hall wrote:

So, one writer coined a term for an FTL communicator and another borrowed it for his series. Hmm. Still makes me wonder if it deserves inclusion here. Now if it were considered by many as a standard term for such an item, then maybe. But I'm sure most people haven't even heard the word.



You're not nearly anal-retentive enough to work on the OED. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

GrapesOfWrath
2001-Dec-20, 02:54 PM
On 2001-12-18 22:58, David Hall wrote:
But I'm sure most people haven't even heard the word.
Well, gullible isn't in the dictionary either.

Ansible (http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/SF-Archives/Ansible/) is a nice little electronic fanzine that has 173 issues. It's got some legs.

PS: The first issue (http://www.ansible.co.uk/Ansible/a01.html) says "If the word `ansible' means nothing to you, what have you been reading?" I guess that says it all--o wait, this page (http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/SF-Archives/Ansible/ahistory.html) says Ansible won a Hugo for best fanzine in 1987, and then quit for four years.

<font size=-1>[Added PS]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GrapesOfWrath on 2001-12-20 10:06 ]</font>

David Hall
2001-Dec-20, 04:08 PM
Ok, ok! I accept it. It's more common than I ever realized. Well, at least I was familiar with the word, so I've been reading at least some of the right stuff. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gifBut, at least in the circles I've been in, it's not a common word.

Shows you what I know. Oh well. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

BTW, Cool fanzine.

Bob
2001-Dec-20, 04:17 PM
On 2001-12-17 17:50, Zandermann wrote:
[quote]What does TANJ & TANSTAAFL mean?TANJ = "there ain't no justice"

Russ, I went over this with you on the old BB. Didn't you save those pearls of wisdom?

LSHTTARDML

ToSeek
2001-Dec-20, 09:13 PM
Just did a Google search on "ansible" and came up with 6,490 pages. So it's not completely obscure.

Lisa
2001-Dec-22, 02:31 AM
Zandermann, you're one of the few I've run int to that actually likes "Number of the Beast". Most just find it too darned weird. Happens to be one of my favorites. If I want to read it again, I might have to buy a new copy. My old one is so yellowed and dog-eared I'm afraid the pages will fall apart.
Lisa

GrapesOfWrath
2001-Dec-22, 01:16 PM
Lisa, I think Zanderman hasn't read Number of the Beast yet. I got my copy used off amazon or ebay somewhere just this year. If anyone is searching for secondary references to science fiction terms that appear in other stories, that would be the book to search first.

Zandermann
2001-Dec-22, 08:28 PM
no, haven't read it yet......waiting for Russ to lend me his copyhttp://www.plauder-smilies.de/cool2.gif

Donnie B.
2001-Dec-23, 01:45 AM
I've read "The Number Of the Beast".

After I finished it, I went outside to fix my gutters. I almost fell off the ladder, I was so spaced out from the book.

Honest, it really happened!

...I'll be offline for awhile, so I wish everybody a happy holiday. See you for a 2002 of Bad (and Better) Astronomy!

GrapesOfWrath
2001-Dec-23, 06:23 AM
Don't you mean timed out?

Russ
2002-Jan-04, 09:29 PM
To Zandermann, DavidH, et. al.:
Thanks for all of the advice and encouragement. But I offer the following responses:



On 2001-12-18 22:54, David Hall wrote:
Don't have time?!?!? There's ALWAYS enough time for SF. 5 minutes on a bus

There are no busses where I live and even if there were, my job is such that they would be impractical for transportation.


or during lunch breaks

My lunch breaks are almost always business lunches with clients.


, just before bed.

I have a wife who appreciates my attention. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif


Of course, the big problem is once you start you can't put it down again.

A warrented assumption.


But that's quibbling. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Aux contrare, mes ami. I catch enough flak for the time I spend here. It'd be worse if I was adding SF books to the task list.


Seriously, a lot of what Niven wrote is in short-story form. "Tales of Known Space" (which I'm reading again now) and "Neutron Star" (which I just finished) are the perfect primers to his Known Space series. Then, when you have the time, like a vacation or something, you can sit down with a longer one like "Ringworld".

Mrs. Russ just won us a cruise in the Carib. for two. I may actually get a chance to read "Ring World" assuming I get time off from other duties /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif ahem.


I reread the entire Known Space series a year and a half ago, book by book, and it looks like I'm going to be doing it again.

Brag, Brag, Brag. You must be independantly wealthy or you have no kids. (same diff) Some of us flunkies have to work for a living.


So no more excuses buddy. Get to cracking those books! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Yowsa, yowsa, don't hit me 'gain massa. I'll git read up goooood! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


edit to correct code


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Russ on 2002-01-04 16:30 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Russ on 2002-01-04 16:33 ]</font>