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Fraser
2005-Jul-28, 05:37 PM
SUMMARY: This image, taken by ESA's Mars Express spacecraft, shows a large patch of water ice sitting on the floor of a Martian crater. The unnamed impact crater is located on Vastitas Borealis, a broad plain that covers much of Mars' far northern latitudes. This patch of ice seems to be present all year round, as the temperature and pressure don't get high enough for the ice to sublimate away into gas. There are also faint traces of ice on the inside wall of the crater.

View full article (http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/water_ice_in_cater_at_north_pole.html)

What do you think about this story? Post your comments below.

Guest
2005-Jul-28, 05:50 PM
That crater looks great



more information
ESA mysterious radar info, strange MARSIS results

Mars radar experiment returns cryptic data
http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/d...yptic-data.html (http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/dn7738-mars-radar-experiment-returns-cryptic-data.html)
Mars videos - Elysium Pack Ice & Coprates Chasma
http://www.marsgeo.com/Videos/Express/Corates_56K.wmv
http://www.marsgeo.com/Videos/Express/IcePack_56K.wmv

The longest wavelengths are expected to penetrate as far as five kilometres below the surface, rebounding when they encounter a boundary between materials with different electrical properties - such as rock and liquid water.

John L
2005-Jul-28, 06:58 PM
If there is ice in one place there can be ice everywhere. This bodes well for Human flights to Mars if they can get this precious supply from the environment. Air to breath, fuel to get home, and water for drinking, cooking, and cleaning. This is the most beautiful Mars picture I've ever seen!!! :D

Don Alexander
2005-Jul-28, 07:35 PM
Really fascinating!

The picture was already featured on APOD last week:

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap050720.html

This will obviously be another Nature publication. The paper doesn't seem to appear in today's Nature, so it's quite strange to already see a press release on this. :blink:

And thanks for the MARSIS link, whoever you are. I've been waiting for the first results from this experiment.

Well, in a few days (August 10, if I recall correctly), NASA will launch the Mars Reconnaisance Orbiter, which promises even better pictures than Mars Express. The next few years will be hot.

dougreed
2005-Jul-29, 04:57 AM
Maybe "Guest" will enlighten us to the reason for their opinion? Thanks,

piersdad
2005-Jul-29, 05:07 AM
might agree with guest as i did not know mars had an atmosphere the filtered light in to reflect blue water.
i would ecpect water there to be brown or even black

the pic look like a photo shop attempt

Guest
2005-Jul-29, 05:54 AM
Originally posted by piersdad@Jul 29 2005, 05:07 AM
might agree with guest as i did not know mars had an atmosphere the filtered light in to reflect blue water.
i would ecpect water there to be brown or even black

the pic look like a photo shop attempt
Mmmhmmm...

Guest_Neil
2005-Jul-29, 06:29 AM
The article says:"This patch of ice seems to be present all year round, as the temperature and pressure don't get high enough for the ice to sublimate away into gas."

There is a mistake.

Yes, if the temperature is low then the vapour pressure of the ice is low and sublimation will be negligible. But a low atmospheric pressure will INCREASE not decrease the rate of sublimation, so it is wrong to say the pressure is too low for sublimation.

piersdad
2005-Jul-29, 06:45 AM
downloaded the pic and close zoom to pixel size shows a black edge to the 'water' and fizzy pixels and the change in blue seems also suspect.
such fine detail of the 'water ice 'edge seems suspect.

b15j13
2005-Jul-29, 08:14 AM
Some think these are fake ?? this theory wouldn't be coming from the Lunar hoax crowded that says Armstrong's Moon landing and Mars Missions are all part of a big conspiracy ??? :blink:

The pictures are as real as ESA can make them using and Mars Express data will come from detections by Neutral Particle Detector, ASPERA, Ion Mass Analyser, HRSC: High Resolution Stereo Camera and now Marsis is operational
http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/in...fobjectid=34826 (http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/index.cfm?fobjectid=34826)
http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/in...fobjectid=34532 (http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/index.cfm?fobjectid=34532)
Look at the Instrument of Mars Express

NASA's future MRO will be doing much of the same scientific study but perhaps with better quality pics

Jakenorrish
2005-Jul-29, 08:18 AM
Piersdad and 'Guest',

the photo is on the European Space Agency's website. Why would they put a fake photo up? If proven to be fake then this would totally undermine the Mars Express mission and all the fantastic data that it has returned. I think that in questioning the integrity of an entire space agency you should make your reasons clear. If this is a genuine photo (and I for one think it is) then its a wonderful discovery with huge implications for the possibility of life there and us visiting. I also think that if NASA had provided this wonderful image you wouldn't for a nanosecond question it!

I would also like you to provide a section of your close up picture with detailed description of what is out of place. I for one wouldn't know what water ice on Mars with its light conditions would look like. This is as I've never seen it before, and neither have you Piersdad!

spacefrog
2005-Jul-29, 08:18 AM
Try downloading the large jpeg. Have a look around the perimeter of the ice field. There are mottled stains in the ice. They look green-ish to my eyes on my monitor. Is this interesting, or an artefact of the image processing? Are we looking at evidence of photosynthesising organisms? Or an overactive imagination? Over to you - any other thoughts on origin of discolouration?

Jakenorrish
2005-Jul-29, 08:20 AM
Are we looking at evidence of photosynthesising organisms?

Wow! Hold that thought, as that would be something else!!

piersdad
2005-Jul-29, 08:44 AM
very interesting thanks for the links b15j13
i see plenty of ice like deposits on the polar caps so what makes the picture have blue water
perhaps some over active processer artificially colored the area in blue to accentuate that it was frozen water
i would love to believe it is water unfrozen as it apears
in a dusty cold planet ice in the bottom of a crater would get covered in dust.
it would not be blue
unless it is heated by thermal activity and then it would not last long in that atmosphere.
im waiting for the next picture with baited breath as i would love to think it was true
Jakenorrish
other pictures of 'ice' on mars is white and recently deposited
where as the picture shows it is blue ice/water
so which one is ice and which one is water.
??

Jakenorrish
2005-Jul-29, 10:36 AM
Piersdad, you haven't been able to answer the points about why they'd fake it, and singularly failed to prove that you'd know what water on Mars would look like. You don't. You've never seen it. You can imagine what it should be like, but often when scientists imagine what something should look like, they are wrong.

I am not questioning your integrity, just stating some facts. The only flaw I can think of is that it is something other than water.

Laintje
2005-Jul-29, 11:32 AM
Take a look to the edges of the crater. I'm missing something.
Oh yes, I beleave the picture is real, but did anyone question where the water/ice came from ?
There are, as far as I can see, no signs of water once flowing into the crater, and it seems to be ON the hills in the crater.
Can this mean the water came from below the surface (source on the hills created by the impact) ? Can this be a sign that there might be something interesting below the surface to be examined by Marsis ?
... On the other hand there is some ice on the rim itself, but maybe this is ice from the center blown to the rim's by martian winds.

Darrrius
2005-Jul-29, 01:04 PM
I too think there is something funny about this picture... it just doesnt look real. I'm sure that what has been found, has in fact been found, and that there is water ice at the bottom of this crater. But the picture doesn't look like a phtograph at all. And as Piersdad says, why would it be bright blue, when all other shots of ice on mars are white? Or covered in dust.

I'd be interested to know how this picture was aquired... Is is a standard "photograph" or has it been assembled somehow from other mars express data?

Darrrius
2005-Jul-29, 01:11 PM
In fact.... it looks like its been painted with water colours!! :D I bet the actual crater, if we were hovering above it, would look nothing like this.

b15j13
2005-Jul-29, 01:50 PM
If you read the links I posted above it talks about the craft

They say that each image point is seen from three different viewing angles, forward-looking, nadir-direction and aft- looking. Given an accurate knowledge of the position and attitude of the spacecraft at the time of image acquisition, the absolute three-dimensional position of objects in the images can be calculated. Multi-spectral imaging is implemented using four additional line sensors for the blue (440 45 nm), green (530 45 nm), red (750 20 nm) and near infrared (970 45 nm). High Resolution Stereo Camera (HRSC) is a multi-sensor pushbroom instrument comprising multiple charge coupled device (CCD) line sensors mounted in parallel for simultaneous high-resolution stereo, multicolour and multi-phase imaging of the Martian surface and the MARSIS functions by transmitting a linear frequency modulated chirp using a nadir-looking dipole antenna.

Jakenorrish
2005-Jul-29, 02:09 PM
Plus there's the fact that the water detecting equipment on the Mars Express confirms the presence of water there. What evidence will convince the conspiricy theorists of its integrity? What would those who think its a fake need to convince them?

Tinaa
2005-Jul-29, 02:15 PM
Please visit:

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/S...JBQXLDMD_0.html (http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/SEMJBQXLDMD_0.html)

This site will explain why some of the photographs "do not reflect the true colour as we would see it with our eyes." Just scroll about half way down.

Laintje
2005-Jul-29, 02:44 PM
Some can't be convinced at all. Even if you send a spacecraft to Mars, get some Ice from the crater and bring it back, they would ask : "How can I be sure that it comes from Mars, and not from the NASA or ESA freezer ?"
That's the problem with 'believing', at some point you have to accept things without real prove.
Maybe, one day, they (the non believers) can go there ... but I am a believer and I want to go first &#33; :P (If i&#39;ts safe of course <_< )
Why would big organisations like ESA / NASA send hoaxes like that around the world and risk to lose their credibility. The half (if not the entire) world of scientists is looking at their fingers &#33;

Jakenorrish
2005-Jul-29, 02:49 PM
Well, I think that in this instance for some reason people can&#39;t believe these images are real as they have been released by ESA and not NASA. I think that a few people that maybe ought to know better at times do not give enough credit to scientists working outside of the USA.

Just my opinion of course.

Darrrius
2005-Jul-29, 02:50 PM
I&#39;m not saying that its a fake, or that there is a conspiracy.... just that the image doesn&#39;t look like a photo, it looks more like a painting.

Jakenorrish
2005-Jul-29, 02:51 PM
Agreed. It looks unreal&#33; I&#39;d love to go and have a look at the real thing for myself&#33;&#33;

:)

Darrrius
2005-Jul-29, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by Jakenorrish@Jul 29 2005, 02:51 PM
Agreed. It looks unreal&#33; I&#39;d love to go and have a look at the real thing for myself&#33;&#33;

:)
Me too&#33;&#33; I&#39;ll come with you, We could Ice skate on top of that huge ice block&#33;&#33;&#33;

b15j13
2005-Jul-29, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by piersdad@Jul 29 2005, 05:07 AM


the pic look like a photo shop attempt
IUE and Spitzer photos were also real

http://www.astro.utu.fi/kurssit/ttpk1/ttpkI/IUE.jpg
http://www.astronomija.co.yu/instrumenti/s...zer/spitzer.jpg (http://www.astronomija.co.yu/instrumenti/spitzer/spitzer.jpg)

Even normal cameras can pick up more information by using focus techniques, longer exposures or filters

http://www.totalbusiness.org.uk/images/feb...ue%20filter.jpg (http://www.totalbusiness.org.uk/images/febmar04TB/Loganlea%20-%20blue%20filter.jpg)
http://www.maxmax.com/images/Filters/Tree665nmLg.jpg


Mars Express has Multi-spectral imaging and additional line sensors for the blue, green (530 45 nm), red and near infrared (970 45 nm) plus multi-phase imaging of the Martian surface and the MARSIS functions by transmitting a linear frequency modulated chirp. Read Tinaa&#39;s link and you&#39;ll see how they explain it. They also say Mars is very dusty and scenes were taken with high sun angles so scattering of light causes new atmospheric and lighting conditions and the dust in the air acts as red filters, thus you may see a diffuse reddish glow with somewhat fuzzy appearance.


The conspiracy that this Martian-image was created by Photoshop and painted graphics is totally absurd, soon NASA will have its MRO taking great pictures of Mars but no doubt there will be those who will be calling the future NASA images fakes or a hoax


I weep for the future

om@umr.edu
2005-Jul-29, 06:27 PM
In my opinion this is a great find.

Thanks, Fraser, for posting it on UT.

With kind regards,

Oliver
http://www.umr.edu/~om

John L
2005-Jul-29, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by piersdad@Jul 29 2005, 12:45 AM
downloaded the pic and close zoom to pixel size shows a black edge to the &#39;water&#39; and fizzy pixels and the change in blue seems also suspect.
such fine detail of the &#39;water ice &#39;edge seems suspect.
They are false color jpegs of what would have been black and white ultra high res tiffs. Of course you see that garbage at ultra high zoom on a jpeg. You&#39;d get that on any picture.

John L
2005-Jul-29, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by Jakenorrish@Jul 29 2005, 08:51 AM
Agreed. It looks unreal&#33; I&#39;d love to go and have a look at the real thing for myself&#33;&#33;

:)
Remember that these images are from the steroe camera and have been converted to 2D. That is why there is that sort-of appearance of depth and strangeness as the 3D to 2D translation is never perfect.

piersdad
2005-Jul-29, 07:34 PM
Please visit:

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/S...JBQXLDMD_0.html

This site will explain why some of the photographs "do not reflect the true colour as we would see it with our eyes." Just scroll about half way down.



thanks for that tinaa
my apologies for doubting the pictures and thanks for the other posts folks
i had this horrible thought that some how some one had been duped.
the one thing i love about UT is that if you question some thing there are plenty of experts to discuss the query.

i can imagine a mars base set up in the crater with shelter from the dust and plenty of water.

Guest_Paul
2005-Jul-29, 08:55 PM
Folks who constantly find conspiracies lurking behind every event should, I believe, simply be ignored, as they offer little of substance, and inhibit useful converstaion.

This is far from the first water ice revealed on Mars. The presence of water on Mars in any form powerflly suggests the possibility - if not probability - of life forms of some sort. The present conditions on the planet, plus the shorter-than-Earth period condsive to fromation and evolvement, suggests rather primitive forms. The millions of widely varied life forms on Earth demonstrate the design of Martian life forms is impossible to predict.

I have long suspected - due to their distribution and, in some instances - gravity defying positins, that the socalled "blueberries" are actually primitive live forms, possibly in some manner similar to fungi. Whether or not that is actually the case, I am very optimistic that life will be found on Mars.

John L
2005-Jul-29, 09:11 PM
Thats very true about the water. We&#39;ve known for years that the polar caps are water ice with carbon dioxide ice on top of it, and that its the CO2 ices that evaporate off and then refreeze with the seasons, but the water ice caps are permenant. Another ESA Mars Express picture shows what may be a large re-frozen ice flow covered in the red Martian dusts, too. This is just a really amazing picture of a huge crater with a large pool of water ice in the bottom and the images going through my head of possible future Mars bases inside it are tantalizing.

I also agree that if we&#39;re going to find life on Mars it will be under an ice sheet like the one pictured. Insulated and shielded from the radiation from space it would be a good place to drill down for life.

I think that the blue-berries are hematite, which is an iron oxide mineral. They same thing formed in the Utah desert when water had been present there in the distant past, but the Mars ones are more uniform. Just a geological curiosity really, but a definite sign of the prior presence of water.

Guest
2005-Jul-30, 09:55 PM
Is it possible that this crater could have been the result of a small comet or comet remnant impact or, same senerio but, comet/remnant landing in existing crater? In either senerio, water in the basin resulted.

Luigi
2005-Jul-31, 03:27 AM
Wonderful Vista-Hielo=agua.-Agua=vida. - There are great hopes to encoentrar some form of life in Mars-Also would be possible to be experimented with the Mexican pines that resist exceptional environmental

Planetwatcher
2005-Jul-31, 06:13 AM
I saw this picture in my local newspapper, and my first impression was, it looks an awful lot like an outdoor swimming pool. :D
But a hundred and forty million miles is a very long ways to go for a swim. :lol:


QUOTE
Are we looking at evidence of photosynthesising organisms?



Wow&#33; Hold that thought, as that would be something else&#33;&#33;


At the risk of popping your bubble of positiveness, I seriously doubt it. <_< Remember, this is near the Martian north pole, and the ambient air temperture is colder then 250 degrees below zero, F. :ph34r:

If only Oppertunity, and Spirit were nuclear powered instead of solar powered.

Perhaps this will give us more reason to send a better, and nuclear powered probe to Mars, and try to get it into that lake. :P

Spacemad
2005-Aug-01, 09:31 AM
This is a really interesting discussion&#33; Being as the image in question is on the ESA space site I never doubted it for a moment. Their reputation is worth too much to put faked images on it & thereby loose credibilty for all other images as wel as other studies published there.

Yet this discussion has served to bring out many concepts on space imaging that many people may not have known about - me amongst them&#33; (I have certainly read about some of these concepts in other places but I still don&#39;t fully understand them&#33;)





P.S. I&#39;ve updated my website with new image "Galleries". One has a lot of images of MArs - so why don&#39;t you pop along & have a look. Then leave me a message in the Guest Book at the end of the page with your opinions.

Eric Vaxxine
2005-Aug-01, 12:47 PM
I might as well my tuppence worth in.
It is widely regarded that the images from ESA are quite likely to have been...lets say....enhanced to hide or reveal that which they want us to see. For over a year now, I have been emailing ESA asking for clarification on smudge tampering at an official level. Not a single reply to my emails. Fullstop.
Worryingly, in an email communication with a well regarded Martian website owner, he referred to anomalies in esa 3D images (and I quote )

&#39;I think that the 3D renderings that ESA are doing are for entertainment
purposes only, so there&#39;s alot of leeway for technical imperfections.&#39;

NASA ..... I have one image, which is so odd, that it is either a very interesting picture of something on Mars, or a very interesting picture of something on Mars which has been tampered with. Or someone might be able to tell the world what it is we are looking at.

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all...EP2280L2M1.HTML (http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p/464/2P167556866EFFA9HEP2280L2M1.HTML)


Antoniseb, I did get a reply from Dave Williams of the Clementine team: Quote -:

&#39;I was not involved directly with the Clementine missions except in my
capacity here at the data center archiving the data returned by the
mission and I&#39;m not a photogeologist or interpreter so I&#39;m afraid I
can&#39;t give you any kind of definitive opinion.&#39;

antoniseb
2005-Aug-01, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Eric Vaxxine@Aug 1 2005, 12:47 PM
I have one image, which is so....unbelieveably odd that it is either a very interesting picture of something on Mars, or a very interesting picture of something on Mars which has been tampered with.
Hi Eric,

This is an amusing image. There are images of probably millions of rocks on the surface of Mars as taken by the Spirit rover as it climbs up Husband Hill. This one is certainly an odd one, but I don&#39;t think that it challenges belief that one rock in a million would be "L" shaped, and balanced on top of another rock.

I saw one a few weeks ago that looked like it had a little round nose, and two oval shaped pebbles were sitting where they would look like eyes. But I do not believe either that the configuration is more than a chance natural arrangement, or that the image was tampered with.

Getting back to your complaint about the ESA&#39;s color 3D reconstructions, they make very compelling images, but at best as a scientist, you would use them to help identify places that you&#39;d like to examine more closely, say next year when the MRO is in orbit, with one-meter resolution capability.

Eric Vaxxine
2005-Aug-01, 01:13 PM
But an L shaped shadow from a square rock levitating?

antoniseb
2005-Aug-01, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by Eric Vaxxine@Aug 1 2005, 01:13 PM
But an L shaped shadow from a square rock levitating?
It looks like a blocky "L" shaped rock to me, and it looks like it is resting on the big rock beneath it with the two ends of the "L" extending outward roughly toward the camera. I don&#39;t see it as levitating. Are you certain that you do?

Eric Vaxxine
2005-Aug-01, 01:51 PM
It doesn&#39;t look natural? Should it?

antoniseb
2005-Aug-01, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Eric Vaxxine@Aug 1 2005, 01:51 PM
It doesn&#39;t look natural? Should it?
I&#39;m not sure what "natural" should look like. It looks darker than the surrounding rocks, and seems to have been fractured in an unusual way. But we have seen lots of rocks on Mars with angular lines including some with "L" shapes. This rock is not unprecidented by itself. It is odd to see it resting on another rock with legs extended. There is no question that you have found an image which is interesting to the eye.

Eric Vaxxine
2005-Aug-01, 03:01 PM
Maybe there is another angle of it, to be found. I&#39;ll go looking.

Guest
2005-Aug-02, 05:10 AM
Will there be another photo of this crater? Im curious about this &#39;ice&#39; sitting there, i figured there would be some red martain dirt over the ice if it was laying there for so long..... :unsure:

After reading this forum, i dont know what to believe...

lswinford
2005-Aug-02, 03:55 PM
guest-neil was on the right track with the sublimation thing.

As I recall, there was a bit of photodynamics at work in sublimation, sunlight bent by the hexagonal crystal structure of water ice generates the phase change energies inside the structure. While low pressure decreases the boil temperature for liquid water, sublimation takes ice from solid to a gas with its energy from sunlight, not ambient environment.

I live in a town called Springfield. All over there are places where water &#39;springs&#39; up in the fields that are now packed with streets and buildings. Subsurface water pools and flows simply find their ooze points and hydraulic pressures balance with atmospheric pressures and a flow forms. Voila&#33; It freezes and pools and we have a little ice pond.

piersdad
2005-Aug-02, 09:15 PM
very intreging crater.
if it is shaded from the sun , and as well the water is submarsian, then it would remain there a long time.
with constant low temperature and no sunlight, it will not sublimate and although covered in dust the sensors will penitrate this.

good name for the crater is &#39;springfield&#39;

John L
2005-Aug-02, 10:12 PM
Are there any earlier images of this same crater and do they show this ice lake? I&#39;d like to see if this is something we just over looked, or if this is something that is new in the last few years.

piersdad
2005-Aug-02, 10:29 PM
If another image &#39;radar&#39; shows a flat bottomed crater then that could verify that some thing liquid was there in the past

Jakenorrish
2005-Aug-03, 09:00 AM
It would be good if there were any images at all of this area from previous flyby&#39;s. The best way of verifying the current image would be if we could look back over past data. I wonder if there are any other craters like it? I&#39;d be surprised if it was the only one with frozen water in it. If there&#39;s one there, there must be more&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

Ola D.
2005-Aug-03, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Eric Vaxxine@Aug 1 2005, 01:51 PM
It doesn&#39;t look natural?
http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/S...1.html#subhead3 (http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/SEMGKA808BE_1.html#subhead3)

A comment added under the first image, the one featured in the UT article, by ESA is that the colours are very close to natural, but the vertical relief is exaggerated three times.

The black & white image looks more natural to me.
http://www.esa.int/images/209-010705-1343-6-nd-01-CraterIce_L.jpg

Eric Vaxxine
2005-Aug-03, 12:51 PM
Yay, now the general public can spot &#39;fixed&#39; images. I appreciate we are not all hard core scientists, but...ESA really don&#39;t have to colour in things for me. Just give me the raw image first, then the processed results.

It is only a matter or time before NASA or ESA release semi-liquid water images.

Eric Vaxxine
2005-Aug-03, 12:57 PM
Slush ...they&#39;ll find slush in the Polar region

Ola D.
2005-Aug-03, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by spacefrog@Jul 29 2005, 08:18 AM
Try downloading the large jpeg. Have a look around the perimeter of the ice field. There are mottled stains in the ice. They look green-ish to my eyes on my monitor. Is this interesting, or an artefact of the image processing? Are we looking at evidence of photosynthesising organisms? Or an overactive imagination? Over to you - any other thoughts on origin of discolouration?
That&#39;s too much to assume. The greenish-blue patches may only be present because of wrong adjusting of colours. That happened in one earlier mars image, as it&#39;s explained in the FAQ page.

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/S...JBQXLDMD_0.html (http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/SEMJBQXLDMD_0.html)
"Scroll down to &#39;About images and the High Resolution Stereo Camera (HRSC)&#39; "

In the same page, you can find some questions concerning the colours answered.

lswinford
2005-Aug-03, 07:55 PM
piersdad, I snagged on your word "dust". Why is this so white when Mars is so dusty?

Suppose this is something really recent? (as in days or weeks?)

piersdad
2005-Aug-03, 08:13 PM
piersdad, I snagged on your word "dust". Why is this so white when Mars is so dusty?


at a guess what we are seeing is a coating of frozen liquid CO2 much like frost here on earth and the flatness of the bottom could be because of a water ice dust sludge that is solid for long past.
the specialist cameras would detect water there and thus the false color of blue.
the visible picture would be white

still very interesting

Eric Vaxxine
2005-Aug-15, 01:18 PM
Just for the record .... there is an image of this same crater from Malin: E03-02478
It was imaged four years previously. I found the image through a site called xenotech research under &#39;Mars Findings&#39; &#39;Old Mars Index page&#39;.