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Banquo's Ghost
2003-Jan-09, 05:07 PM
I watched 'Dawn' last night on Enterprise and found it sort of enjoyable. Is the show improving a little?

Jim
2003-Jan-09, 06:36 PM
Dunno about "getting better," but last night's episode was a remake of an episode in TNG, which was a remake of one in TOS. It also paralleled Enemy Mine in the general plot.

This was a better episode than some earlier ones.

Banquo's Ghost
2003-Jan-09, 06:44 PM
On 2003-01-09 13:36, Jim wrote:
Dunno about "getting better," but last night's episode was a remake of an episode in TNG, which was a remake of one in TOS. It also paralleled Enemy Mine in the general plot.

This was a better episode than some earlier ones.



The resemblence to Enemy Mine was VERY obvious, (can you say lawsuit?) However, it was a nice ep. none-the-less.

Glom
2003-Mar-17, 09:01 PM
It just premiered on SkyOne. For the last few weeks, I've found that Enterprise was an extreme non-event each week. However, I was genuinly impressed by this one.

BA note: The maximum temperature a human body can withstand is no more than 70°c. T'Pol said that it would take an hour to reach 130° from an unspecified origin. However, prior to that, Trip commented it was "hotter than hell" even before sunrise. Given he's a southerner, we may assume that the temperature at the time of that comment was 40°c (I believe that into the three figures for American members). It seems somewhat dubious that the temperature would have remained low long enough for them to have survived.

BTW, which NextGen and Classic episodes was it similar to?

tracer
2003-Mar-17, 10:29 PM
What I want to know is, why were Tripp and the alien guy sitting on the SUNWARD side of that rock outcropping, if they were worried about the heat? Couldn't they have ambled over to the shady side before sunrise?!

The Shade
2003-Mar-17, 11:04 PM
On 2003-03-17 16:01, Glom wrote:
BTW, which NextGen and Classic episodes was it similar to?



I think they're referring to the 3rd season episode with Geordi trapped on the planet with the Romulan. Forget the name though.

sacrelicious
2003-Mar-18, 12:37 AM
I've liked enterprise from day one, and not because I'm a star trek geek either (I hated voyager, and while I thought DS9 had some good ideas, I thought is never came close to living up to it's potential).

one of the problams of the last two series was that nothing was really impossable. whatever problem they encounters, there was always a readily available technological solution. on top of that (especially in voyager) the holodeck got way overused. whenever the writers ran out of ideas, it was off to the holodeck for another malfunction.

what I like about enterprise is that teir technology actually has it's limits. hell, they even use a tow cable instead of a tractor beam! plus the cast is, for the most part (and with the notable exception of the captain) pretty decent, and well rounded as characters.

I also like that the episodes are interconnected. what happens in one episode often effects or acts as catalyst for what happens in another. the writing is also the best it's been since the high points of next generation. they seem to be going back to the tradition of sci-fi short stories. I especially appreciate that they've brought back the andorians (and made them very interesting), and shown the vulcans to be far from the saints that we've always seen them as.

in short, it's got depth that has been missing from the franchise since the original casts movies.

really my only complaint is that scott bacula ("I vant to suck at acting!") is not a very impressive leader. but "trip" tucker more than makes up for his failings.

sacrelicious
2003-Mar-18, 12:38 AM
On 2003-01-09 13:44, Banquo's Ghost wrote:


On 2003-01-09 13:36, Jim wrote:
Dunno about "getting better," but last night's episode was a remake of an episode in TNG, which was a remake of one in TOS. It also paralleled Enemy Mine in the general plot.

This was a better episode than some earlier ones.



The resemblence to Enemy Mine was VERY obvious, (can you say lawsuit?) However, it was a nice ep. none-the-less.


well enemy mine is pretty much a rip off of John Boormans Hell in the Pacific.

tracer
2003-Mar-18, 02:26 AM
And as everyone knows, all of the above were ripped off from that episode of Galactica 1980 where Starbuck and the Cylon were stranded on that planet together. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

captain swoop
2003-Mar-18, 09:38 AM
On 2003-03-17 21:26, tracer wrote:
And as everyone knows, all of the above were ripped off from that episode of Galactica 1980 where Starbuck and the Cylon were stranded on that planet together. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif



And it's been done to death on every Sci-Fi show with every variation you can think of.

Picard and Crusher in a cave, Picard and Wesley in a cave, Geordie and Romulan in a cave ... I think I see a pattern here!

I can think of examples from TNG, TOS, DS9, VGR, Stargate, Blakes 7, Starsky and Hutch and probably others if I put my mind to it.

Quick edit

Sorry, had wrong end of this, you were on about 2 nominal enemies being trapped together, I can still think of examples from all of the above though.
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for all your searching needs.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: captain swoop on 2003-03-18 04:40 ]</font>

Glom
2003-Mar-18, 09:55 AM
The communication problem was also a bit of 'Darmok' [TNG].

tracer
2003-Mar-18, 09:43 PM
I've always wondered how you were supposed to say things like "Hand me a 220 ohm resistor" in Darmok.

Colt
2003-Mar-19, 12:41 AM
I think that some of their language was what we would consider "normal" language where as the rest is well.. Fairy tale-like. -Colt

Atko
2003-Mar-19, 12:51 AM
On 2003-03-17 17:29, tracer wrote:
What I want to know is, why were Tripp and the alien guy sitting on the SUNWARD side of that rock outcropping, if they were worried about the heat? Couldn't they have ambled over to the shady side before sunrise?!


Yep, and since they couldn't beam the alien up, why didn't they simply beam DOWN some water and alien goop to keep 'em going?

tracer
2003-Mar-19, 03:22 AM
Shhh! Next you'll be asking why they didn't rescue the crewmembers with a shuttlecraft in the ST:TOS episode "The Enemy Within."

g99
2003-Mar-19, 03:33 AM
Or why they didn't go back in time to stop Insurrection from being made.../phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Chip
2003-Mar-19, 08:11 AM
On 2003-03-18 04:38, captain swoop wrote:
"And it's been done to death on every Sci-Fi show with every variation you can think of.

Picard and Crusher in a cave, Picard and Wesley in a cave, Geordie and Romulan in a cave ... I think I see a pattern here!"

I like Kirk and company in a cave with the babes who took Spock's brain. That was a blast! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Chip
2003-Mar-19, 08:14 AM
On 2003-03-18 16:43, tracer wrote:
I've always wondered how you were supposed to say things like "Hand me a 220 ohm resistor" in Darmok.

How about: "His hands open! Reveal the sparkling waters. He see's them avoid the dawn of 220 tiny suns!" /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

informant
2003-Mar-19, 09:21 AM
On 2003-01-09 13:44, Banquo's Ghost wrote:
The resemblence to Enemy Mine was VERY obvious, (can you say lawsuit?) However, it was a nice ep. none-the-less.


How can it be “a good episode nonetheless” if it’s a blatant ripoff? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif
Maybe my age is showing.



On 2003-03-17 21:26, tracer wrote:
And as everyone knows, all of the above were ripped off from that episode of Galactica 1980 where Starbuck and the Cylon were stranded on that planet together. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif


I believe Enemy Mine is earlier than that.

g99
2003-Mar-19, 08:42 PM
The idea for enemy mine is even earlier: check out the "Movie links" for it on imdb:

http://us.imdb.com/Mlinks?0089092

informant
2003-Mar-19, 09:18 PM
So Enemy Mine is from 1985! Interesting; I thought it was older. In that case, the film does not predate the Galactica 1980 episode The Return of Starbuck.
However, if I'm not mistaken Enemy Mine is based on an earlier science fiction short story.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: informant on 2003-03-19 16:19 ]</font>

SeanF
2003-Mar-19, 09:24 PM
On 2003-03-19 16:18, informant wrote:
However, if I'm not mistaken Enemy Mine is based on an earlier science fiction short story.


"Arena," by Frederic Brown. It was actually credited as the basis for the original Star Trek episode of the same name (it's the one where Kirk has to battle the huge lizard-like Gorn).

I've read the short story (although it was a long time ago), and it was quite good. The one bit that sticks in my mind was how the human ended up getting through the energy barrier that separated the combatants - but I won't ruin for anybody who hasn't read it! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif


_________________
SeanF

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SeanF on 2003-03-19 16:24 ]</font>

Colt
2003-Mar-20, 12:12 AM
Oh! I remember that one now. I really liked it.. Better than the show versions of it and Enemy Mine. I was really bored so I read it in class once. The best part of it for me was the part where the story is basically "Ha! I built a catapult so I can fling large rocks at you" "Yeah? Well i'm going to build one too!" -Colt

Edit: I can't believe how many typos I made in this, I must be really tired.
_________________
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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Colt on 2003-03-19 19:15 ]</font>

tracer
2003-Mar-20, 12:17 AM
On 2003-03-19 16:24, SeanF wrote:


On 2003-03-19 16:18, informant wrote:
However, if I'm not mistaken Enemy Mine [the movie] is based on an earlier science fiction short story.

"Arena," by Frederic Brown. It was actually credited as the basis for the original Star Trek episode of the same name (it's the one where Kirk has to battle the huge lizard-like Gorn).
Actually, no. The movie Enemy Mine was based on a novelette published in Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine in the late 1970s, written by Barry Longyear.

The name of the story was ... wait for it ... "Enemy Mine".

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: tracer on 2003-03-19 19:19 ]</font>

Chuck
2003-Mar-20, 01:39 AM
It was stolen from a series of pictures on a cave wall in the Neander Valley which showed a Cro-Magnon man and a Neanderthal man trapped together by a snow slide.

nebularain
2003-Mar-20, 04:01 AM
On 2003-03-19 03:11, Chip wrote:
I like Kirk and company in a cave with the babes who took Spock's brain. That was a blast!

Hmm. . .several years ago, i was at a Star trek convention, and the fans were regarding that as teh worst episode ever created. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

g99
2003-Mar-20, 04:39 AM
On 2003-03-19 23:01, nebularain wrote:


On 2003-03-19 03:11, Chip wrote:
I like Kirk and company in a cave with the babes who took Spock's brain. That was a blast!

Hmm. . .several years ago, i was at a Star trek convention, and the fans were regarding that as teh worst episode ever created. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif




A woman at a trek convention? You must be kidding. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Luriko-Ysabeth
2003-Mar-20, 05:06 AM
On 2003-03-19 23:01, nebularain wrote:


On 2003-03-19 03:11, Chip wrote:
I like Kirk and company in a cave with the babes who took Spock's brain. That was a blast!

Hmm. . .several years ago, i was at a Star trek convention, and the fans were regarding that as the worst episode ever created. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif


Nahh, remote-controlled Spock's body is so bad it's amusing in a "things to watch at one in the morning with your sister while eating contraband spicedrops" sort of way.

I'd say that as far as the worst goes, "The Way to Eden" (IIRC) was definitely a contender. It wasn't just that it was bad, it was bad and BORING.

(Of course, most of the third season wasn't that great to begin with.)

logicboy
2003-Mar-20, 01:27 PM
Did anyone see last nights episode?
3-19-2003
Vanishing Point (http://www.startrek.com/library/ent_episodes/episodes_ent_detail_126460.asp)

I have a question, if she couldn't grab anything and could walk through people, doors, etc. Why didn't she float through the ship? This isn't sexual but why didn't her clothes float off? they weren't on her when she got transported.
I know it was all some kind of dream but she should have noticed little things like that.

captain swoop
2003-Mar-20, 01:37 PM
On 2003-03-20 08:27, logicboy wrote:
Did anyone see last nights episode?
3-19-2003
Vanishing Point (http://www.startrek.com/library/ent_episodes/episodes_ent_detail_126460.asp)

I have a question, if she couldn't grab anything and could walk through people, doors, etc. Why didn't she float through the ship? This isn't sexual but why didn't her clothes float off? they weren't on her when she got transported.
I know it was all some kind of dream but she should have noticed little things like that.



oops forgot to add any text

This is a common convention, you can pass through doors, walls people etc but floors always remain solid and air seems to be 'out of phase' or whatever so you can still breathe.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: captain swoop on 2003-03-20 08:41 ]</font>

nebularain
2003-Mar-20, 02:55 PM
On 2003-03-19 23:39, g99 wrote:
A woman at a trek convention? You must be kidding. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Plenty o' females attend those things. (The /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif means you are joking, right?)

********


On 2003-03-20 08:37, captain swoop wrote:


On 2003-03-20 08:27, logicboy wrote:
Did anyone see last nights episode?
3-19-2003
Vanishing Point (http://www.startrek.com/library/ent_episodes/episodes_ent_detail_126460.asp)

I have a question, if she couldn't grab anything and could walk through people, doors, etc. Why didn't she float through the ship? This isn't sexual but why didn't her clothes float off? they weren't on her when she got transported.
I know it was all some kind of dream but she should have noticed little things like that.



oops forgot to add any text

This is a common convention, you can pass through doors, walls people etc but floors always remain solid and air seems to be 'out of phase' or whatever so you can still breathe.

In an episode of Stargate SG-1 ("Wormhole Xtreme") a humanoid alien writes the story for a sci-fi series that remarkably mirrors the SG-1 program. The female actor (the mirror of Major Carter) actually confronts the writers with this. She asked if she asks about how her character passes through walls and all the other stuff a phased person would do but, "Why don't I fall through the floor?!" Very clever on the part of the SG-! writers. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

kucharek
2003-Mar-20, 03:02 PM
There is the short story "L'homme au corps subtil" by the French writer Maurice Renard, written in 1913, where a man invents a machine to make your atoms able to slip through normal atoms. In the story, the inventor takes care not to change his feet, so there is still the question why the legs don't fall through the feet. In the end of the story, the inventor also uses this point to get rid of a bad guy who wants to use his invention to be able to rob safes. The inventor converts the whole body and the guy is falling towards, well, er, uhm, ehh, eeeekkk.... the core /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Harald

PS: Enterprise just started on German tv last week with the pilot. The first episode sometimes looked more like Baywatch than Star Trek in a few scenes. Are there plenty of these decontamination gel rubbing scenes in the series? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

BTW, is the name "Archer" intentional as a hommage to "Bowman"? Don't know if this is already a dead horse for Trekkies.

(inserted the correct author, I had made the wrong assumption it was H.G. Wells)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kucharek on 2003-03-20 12:48 ]</font>

captain swoop
2003-Mar-20, 04:31 PM
On 2003-03-20 09:55, nebularain wrote:


On 2003-03-19 23:39, g99 wrote:
A woman at a trek convention? You must be kidding. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Plenty o' females attend those things. (The /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif means you are joking, right?)

********


On 2003-03-20 08:37, captain swoop wrote:


On 2003-03-20 08:27, logicboy wrote:
Did anyone see last nights episode?
3-19-2003
Vanishing Point (http://www.startrek.com/library/ent_episodes/episodes_ent_detail_126460.asp)

I have a question, if she couldn't grab anything and could walk through people, doors, etc. Why didn't she float through the ship? This isn't sexual but why didn't her clothes float off? they weren't on her when she got transported.
I know it was all some kind of dream but she should have noticed little things like that.



oops forgot to add any text

This is a common convention, you can pass through doors, walls people etc but floors always remain solid and air seems to be 'out of phase' or whatever so you can still breathe.

In an episode of Stargate SG-1 ("Wormhole Xtreme") a humanoid alien writes the story for a sci-fi series that remarkably mirrors the SG-1 program. The female actor (the mirror of Major Carter) actually confronts the writers with this. She asked if she asks about how her character passes through walls and all the other stuff a phased person would do but, "Why don't I fall through the floor?!" Very clever on the part of the SG-! writers. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



The best bit of that episode though is the 'out take' at the end where one of the actors from the 'show within a show' can't understand that it wasn't a real show he was acting in.
'Will I still get paid?'

Chip
2003-Mar-20, 05:47 PM
On 2003-03-19 23:01, nebularain wrote:


On 2003-03-19 03:11, Chip wrote:
I like Kirk and company in a cave with the babes who took Spock's brain. That was a blast!

Hmm. . .several years ago, i was at a Star trek convention, and the fans were regarding that as the worst episode ever created. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Yes - some pundit expressed that idea years ago, and the fans all fall in line. (Except me.) I like it anyway. In it, Scottie admires "Ion Power" as being more advanced than the Enterprise's Matter-Antimatter drive! The ladies are cute and their lines are funny. The brainless Spock acts more intelligently than his crewmates. Cavemen live on the Iceage surface, and the women occupy "nice, warm" advanced quarters underground. And why did they take Spock's brain? To run the airconditioning of course! Anyway, its silly but a lot of fun. Good sets, and a dramatic music score superior to any new star Trek series.

I don't remember all the episode titles, but to me - the very worst original ST episodes were:
"Piece of the Action" (i.e. 1920's Chicago Gangster Planet)
"Bread and Circuses" (Planet of Romans)

-- and the one about the "space hippies." That was a stinker, and the songs? P.U.! Watching Spock "groove" was really silly too! There were a lot of great episodes, some based on earlier 1930s sci-fi pulp, but those were the clunkers to me. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Glom
2003-Mar-20, 05:51 PM
On 2003-03-20 10:02, kucharek wrote:
PS: Enterprise just started on German tv last week with the pilot. The first episode sometimes looked more like Baywatch than Star Trek in a few scenes. Are there plenty of these decontamination gel rubbing scenes in the series? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif


No, just in the first one.

Captain Swoop, FYI, you can edit the contents of a quote to cut it down to the bit that is actually relevant.

daver
2003-Mar-20, 06:05 PM
On 2003-03-20 10:02, kucharek wrote:
There is the short story "L'homme au corps subtil" by the French writer Maurice Renard, written in 1913, where a man invents a machine to make your atoms able to slip through normal atoms.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kucharek on 2003-03-20 12:48 ]</font>


There's a Batman Beyond episode that runs like this. Similar ending.

g99
2003-Mar-20, 11:00 PM
On 2003-03-20 09:55, nebularain wrote:

Plenty o' females attend those things. (The /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif means you are joking, right?)


/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif yup. I saw the horrible movie Trekkies. I know that some women do go to them. I was just pulling your leg.

Colt
2003-Mar-21, 01:28 AM
On 2003-03-20 10:02, kucharek wrote:

BTW, is the name "Archer" intentional as a hommage to "Bowman"? Don't know if this is already a dead horse for Trekkies.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kucharek on 2003-03-20 12:48 ]</font>


I never thought of that before but it is quite possible. If you have been looking at the Colony One thread, my story/history is chocked full of references to Science-Fiction and games (SF type games of course).

I just thought I would announce this: In my SF class we are required to read eight books for the semester. I have already read nine and it is not even halfway through the semester. I feel soo special. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif -Colt

g99
2003-Mar-21, 02:20 AM
What books colt?

Colt
2003-Mar-21, 03:25 AM
One or two of the Man-Kzin Wars books, War of the Worlds, The Ringworld Throne, A Trans-Atlantic Tunnel, Hurrah! (this one was short but surprisingly good), Destiny's Road, all four of The Tripod Trilogy (good SF for beginners). I think that is it. I am actually not sure which of those I gave her oral reports on but ther were eight of them. I love my post-college reading level. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif -Colt

captain swoop
2003-Mar-21, 08:55 AM
Captain Swoop, FYI, you can edit the contents of a quote to cut it down to the bit that is actually relevant.



Like this u mean?

I know but sometimes I forget, on some of the usenet groups I frequent you get a flame for clipping threads, some people assume you have done it to change context so you get into the habit of not clipping.

kucharek
2003-Mar-21, 09:18 AM
On 2003-03-20 20:28, Colt wrote:


On 2003-03-20 10:02, kucharek wrote:

BTW, is the name "Archer" intentional as a hommage to "Bowman"? Don't know if this is already a dead horse for Trekkies.


I never thought of that before but it is quite possible.

Another indication is, that the first station that is mentioned in the movie, IIRC, is something like "We do warp 4 until Jupiter and then 4.5 beyond" or something like this. I must check my tape, if I find it.

Harald

Moose
2003-Mar-25, 07:47 PM
I [...] sometimes [...] forget [...] usenet groups [...] flame [...] for [...] the habit [...] of [...] frequent [...] not clipping.

Changing contexts through clipping? Why, Captain Swoop, whatever do you mean? :wink: