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The Saint
2005-Sep-30, 07:08 PM
Since it's now possible to see if someone is HIV just from testing the saliva, are they 100% sure that one can't become positive just from kissing?!
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/28/D8CTKMA8G.html

pghnative
2005-Sep-30, 07:25 PM
Well, the test involves extracting antibodies from the mouth, not the virus itself. Since antibodies do not spread disease, this report does not change the odds of contracting AIDS through kissing.

Cylinder
2005-Sep-30, 07:49 PM
You can theoretically transmit HIV by kissing, though the rate of transmission would be so low as to be considered negligible under normal circumstances. HIV is not normally found in saliva (which is composed of a small amount of mucus mixed with a water/enzyme solution) but can be found in other fluids common to the mouth, such as blood that has been surrounded by mucus or blood from injuries to the oral cavity. The risk of transmission is so low in normal circumstances as not to be deemed a risk behavior by the CDC, IIRC. There is a risk, however, in circumstances such as giving mouth-to-mouth CPR to a person who is bleeding from the mouth - or kissing them.

From the CDC's Universal Precautions Guidelines (http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/hip/Blood/UNIVERSA.HTM):


Universal precautions apply to blood, other body fluids containing visible blood, semen, and vaginal secretions. Universal precautions also apply to tissues and to the following fluids: cerebrospinal, synovial, pleural, peritoneal, pericardial, and amniotic fluids. Universal precautions do not apply to feces, nasal secretions, sputum, sweat, tears, urine, and vomitus unless they contain visible blood. Universal precautions do not apply to saliva except when visibly contaminated with blood or in the dental setting where blood contamination of saliva is predictable.

and



General infection control practices should further minimize the already minute risk for salivary transmission of HIV. These infection control practices include the use of gloves for digital examination of mucous membranes and endotracheal suctioning, handwashing after exposure to saliva, and minimizing the need for emergency mouth-to-mouth resuscitation by making mouthpieces and other ventilation devices available for use in areas where the need for resuscitation is predictable.

Emphasis is mine.

From the CDC HIV Transmission Fact Sheet (http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/facts/transmission.htm):


Kissing

Casual contact through closed-mouth or "social" kissing is not a risk for transmission of HIV. Because of the potential for contact with blood during "French" or open-mouth kissing, CDC recommends against engaging in this activity with a person known to be infected. However, the risk of acquiring HIV during open-mouth kissing is believed to be very low. CDC has investigated only one case of HIV infection that may be attributed to contact with blood during open-mouth kissing.

and


Saliva, Tears, and Sweat

HIV has been found in saliva and tears in very low quantities from some AIDS patients. It is important to understand that finding a small amount of HIV in a body fluid does not necessarily mean that HIV can be transmitted by that body fluid. HIV has not been recovered from the sweat of HIV-infected persons. Contact with saliva, tears, or sweat has never been shown to result in transmission of HIV.

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2005-Sep-30, 09:24 PM
Kissing

Casual contact through closed-mouth or "social" kissing is not a risk for transmission of HIV. Because of the potential for contact with blood during "French" or open-mouth kissing, CDC recommends against engaging in this activity with a person known to be infected. However, the risk of acquiring HIV during open-mouth kissing is believed to be very low. CDC has investigated only one case of HIV infection that may be attributed to contact with blood during open-mouth kissing.
My Girlfriend and I, Have a Theory, On This One ...

Sometimes, People are Embarrassed to Admit, That they've Had Sexual Contact, Even When It's, VERY Important, to Be, Absolutely Honest!!!!

:wall:

snarkophilus
2005-Sep-30, 09:29 PM
There was a case reported in 1997 where someone did contract HIV through kissing, although both parties had open sores in their mouths. Or course, it was never shown for sure that this was the transmission vector, and it seems much more likely that there was a leaky condom or something like that.

http://www.aegis.com/news/re/1997/re970708.html
http://www.junkscience.com/news/kissing.html

beskeptical
2005-Oct-01, 08:40 PM
You can theoretically transmit HIV by kissing, though the rate of transmission would be so low as to be considered negligible under normal circumstances. HIV is not normally found in saliva ....I am pleased to see good references in this thread re this issue. The above statement isn't exactly correct. HIV virus can be recovered from the mouths of infected persons but not in quantities great enough to transmit infection.

In the one case cited above, the infected person had mouth sores and the uninfected person had recent dental work before the transmission. There were also other opportunities in the household for transmission as the couple were not as careful as they could have been.

There are two ways we determine how diseases are transmitted. One is by direct observation of transmission and the other is by epidemiological data. When you have millions of persons exposed to saliva of HIV infected individuals and you cannot find more of those exposed persons infected than those not exposed to saliva of infected persons you have evidence the disease is not being transmitted by that route.

From the FDA:


Product: OraSure HIV-1 Western Blot Kit
Applicant: Epitope, Inc., Beaverton, OR
PMA number: BP950004
Indication for use: In-vitro qualitative assay for the detection of antibodies to HIV-1 in human oral fluid specimens obtained with the Orasure HIV-1 Oral Specimen Collection Device; and as an additional, more specific test for HIV-1 antibodies in OraSure specimens collected from individuals found to be repeatedly reactive by the Oral Fluid Vironostika HIV-1 Microelisa System screening test manufactured by Organon Teknika Corp.
Approval Date: 6/3/96(emphasis mine)

The test is for antibodies not antigen (virus).

jkmccrann
2005-Dec-19, 01:07 PM
Its interesting to note how coverage of HIV/AIDS has evolved over the last 20 years, from scare campaigns put on TV here in Australia 20 years ago, with images of Grim Reapers cutting down people whilst they slept, to now, where awareness campaigns for HIV/AIDS are negligble to non-existent, its interesting to note how the public's view of HIV/AIDS has evolved into a state of sort of relaxed ambivalence.

Ilya
2005-Dec-19, 02:56 PM
Its interesting to note how coverage of HIV/AIDS has evolved over the last 20 years, from scare campaigns put on TV here in Australia 20 years ago, with images of Grim Reapers cutting down people whilst they slept, to now, where awareness campaigns for HIV/AIDS are negligble to non-existent, its interesting to note how the public's view of HIV/AIDS has evolved into a state of sort of relaxed ambivalence.
Not sure about Australia, but in the US AIDS awareness campaigns are very much alive, yet "the state of relaxed ambivalence" has set in. I suspect this happened mostly because the much-predicted epidemic among non-drug using heterosexuals has stubbornly refused to appear.

Disinfo Agent
2005-Dec-19, 04:01 PM
In the West, that is. Some African nations are in very dire straights over AIDS.

However, I think another reason is that now that some drugs to relieve the symptoms and extend the lives of people with AIDS are available, many people get into a dangerous oh-it-won't-be-the-end-of-the-world-if-I-catch-it attitude.

Celestial Mechanic
2005-Dec-19, 04:52 PM
Next thing you know, they'll be saying you can catch it from the toilet seat! :lol:

beskeptical
2005-Dec-19, 06:23 PM
RE risk perception.

There are a number of elements that have been identified with risk perception, one of which is familiarity vs exoticness. When a threat is unfamiliar or exotic as the term has been applied, it frightens people more. The more familiar it is, the less we perceive it as dangerous.

While the news media's latest fad applies as well, the more familiar people have become with HIV, the less frightened they are. That is reflected in the news coverage since news, here anyway, is mostly done with marketing in mind.

In other words, now that we are familiar with HIV, we are less fearful and the news coverage has moved on. The actual risk has very little to do with how we perceive the risk.

HIV awareness campaigns are the public health's means of trying to decrease risk. Now the campaigns must stir up feelings of risk as opposed to correcting them.