PDA

View Full Version : Helium 6



Mosheh Thezion
2005-Oct-01, 09:02 PM
Helium 6..

does anyone here go with the idea of orbiting clouds of nuetrons?
and that protons expand?
-MT

Tobin Dax
2005-Oct-02, 06:50 AM
Nope.

What does that have to do with 6-He?

Mosheh Thezion
2005-Oct-02, 07:05 AM
Google it. and you will find much suggesting it is a novel wierd atom.

namely.. it shouldnt exist.. and is not a typical isotope..

it can be formed by electron capture in litium 6... which becomes helium 6...

so in this case... poin fusion, has resulted in a smaller atom.. or lower proton count.
thus Helium 6..
and i wonder, why.. if Lithium 6 can be with a charge of 3 protons and 3 nuetrons be stable as a normal atom...

why would the product of electron capture, be anything but 2 protons, and 4 nuetrons?

but indeed, some have suggested that the 2 nuetrons float.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=helium+6

-MT

Tobin Dax
2005-Oct-02, 07:51 AM
Alright, let me change my initial answer, now that I've seen exactly what you're referring to.

There seems to be a good amount of evidence that neutrons can orbit a smaller nucleus, so I'll by that. Especially since they're bound to it and in a relatively close orbit. (They don't "float", however.)

I still don't know where expanding protons comes from, so I'm very hesitant to think it's true (read "no").

I think that saying 6-He shouldn't exist is, well, wrong. It probably doesn't occur too often in nature, but that doesn't mean it can't happen (and it obviously does).

As for your electron capture question, are you asking what it could produce other than helium-6? Most likely nothing, but 6-He is highly unstable.

Van Rijn
2005-Oct-02, 08:53 AM
namely.. it shouldnt exist.. and is not a typical isotope..


It is interesting, but there's no reason it shouldn't exist. It isn't very stable, apparently with a half-life of about a second, so you won't see much in nature.



it can be formed by electron capture in litium 6... which becomes helium 6...


Actually, it is formed when lithium-7 loses a proton. I don't see anything about electron capture.

Also, the nucleus increases in "size" somewhat, but I don't see anything about expanding protons.

Mosheh Thezion
2005-Oct-02, 09:09 AM
Actually the first link availible on the googled list i provided, takes you to a site, where... ops...

My mistake...

http://www.aip.org/pnu/2004/split/702-3.html

http://www.anl.gov/Media_Center/News/2004/PHY041029.html

i Miss read it.. it was in reference to an aparantly expanded core...
which is explained by the halo.
-MT

Tobin Dax
2005-Oct-03, 12:34 AM
Actually, it is formed when lithium-7 loses a proton. I don't see anything about electron capture.

Also, the nucleus increases in "size" somewhat, but I don't see anything about expanding protons.

I found references to formation by electron capture. Didn't find anything with the cross section easily, but electron capture is one of the possible ways to form this nucleus.

adiffer
2005-Oct-03, 10:46 AM
This stuff might be interesting for people studying degenerate stars and how they would collapse further. Electron capture would at some point, when the pressure got high enough, crash the star.

Mosheh Thezion
2005-Oct-04, 07:14 AM
The frustrating thing about electron capture, is that supposively..
ionized atoms.. atoms without electrons.. cannot oborb an electron, in electron capture... somehow. the atom must have its clouds... and some how pressure or energy may push the inner ones in.. such as x-rays or a collision with a helium projectile mass.... makes me mad.
-MT

Maksutov
2005-Oct-04, 07:42 AM
[edit]ionized atoms.. atoms without electrons...The number of unusual definitions, meanings, and usages in various contexts for otherwise well-understood words (not counting the either deliberate or unintentional misspellings) that are found in your posts is large.

But this latest one has to take the cake.


ionized atoms

a. Atoms without electrons.I can't wait to see how surprised all those thousands of chemists and physicists will be when they receive this news about just how wrong they've been all these years. :surprised

Mosheh Thezion
2005-Oct-04, 08:05 AM
OH.. please.. just say it.
-MT
what? Atoms with out electrons arent atoms anymore.. ? ok. core.

adiffer
2005-Oct-05, 03:59 AM
Maybe I should call it inverse beta decay then.

8)

Joff
2005-Oct-05, 04:45 AM
inverse beta decay == beta construction?

Van Rijn
2005-Oct-05, 06:48 AM
I found references to formation by electron capture. Didn't find anything with the cross section easily, but electron capture is one of the possible ways to form this nucleus.

Duh. Yes, that makes sense. Take 6Li, add one electron to one proton and you get 6He.