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View Full Version : Poll: Star Trek-Who were the Borg?



banquo's_bumble_puppy
2005-Oct-03, 04:31 PM
This question has always bugged me. I have always thought/believed that the Borg may have been off-shoots of the human race-maybe from the future. Who do you think that the Borg were? umm will be???

ToSeek
2005-Oct-03, 05:06 PM
I think they are completely separate (particularly since they originated in the delta quadrant). It's parochial to think their origins have anything to do with humans.

OptimusShr
2005-Oct-03, 09:09 PM
More than likely a humanoid race that experimented with cyborgs some time after which a revolution happened and the Borg we know today came to be.

vonmazur
2005-Oct-03, 09:29 PM
They are Yuppies cruising thru space in their BMW Condo, Bauhaus model, looking for planets to suck dry, in a never ending quest for good brie and chablis!!!!

Dale in Ala

cyswxman
2005-Oct-03, 10:14 PM
From the Borg Queen, to Data: "We were once like them (humans). Flawed, weak, organic..."

Humots
2005-Oct-03, 11:46 PM
I think at some point a species created a technology and was eaten by it. And it's been growing ever since, adding new races.

The Borg seem to hold back from totally assimilating everything and everyone, at least in the later Trek episodes. I am reminded of predators that are instinctively careful not to wipe out their prey. For example, there is a snake that eats eggs from a bird's nest, but never takes them all.

If the Borg completely assimilated a species, they would loose any future technology that species might create. Having them around not as a genocidal threat but as a constant drain is more interesting.

Of course, the Borg queen is a lousy idea that violates the whole "collective" thing. Thrown in purely for plot purposes.

OptimusShr
2005-Oct-04, 12:36 AM
I think at some point a species created a technology and was eaten by it. And it's been growing ever since, adding new races.

The Borg seem to hold back from totally assimilating everything and everyone, at least in the later Trek episodes. I am reminded of predators that are instinctively careful not to wipe out their prey. For example, there is a snake that eats eggs from a bird's nest, but never takes them all.

If the Borg completely assimilated a species, they would loose any future technology that species might create. Having them around not as a genocidal threat but as a constant drain is more interesting.

Of course, the Borg queen is a lousy idea that violates the whole "collective" thing. Thrown in purely for plot purposes.


I believe their intent IS total assimilation. Unless a speicies is too primative. If they believe the race to be primitive they skip over them and assimilate them later.

Avatar28
2005-Oct-04, 12:37 AM
Maybe they were the race that seeded all the humanoid life in the galaxy then disappeared.

peter eldergill
2005-Oct-04, 02:16 AM
I think you guys are reading too much into this...:o

Quoting past episodes about anything in Star Trek can be .... let's just say...not very accurate? They have a tendancy to be not quite consistent

L8R

Pete

Enzp
2005-Oct-04, 03:41 AM
In the Star Trek universe, no matter where they come from, various species are always humanoid with various lumps on their heads. The Borg have mechanical lumps instead of biological lumps. So the resemblance to humans means no more than any other aliens resemblance to humans.

The Borg softened a bit as they hung around the series longer just as all the other bad guys did. Then they introduce even worse bad guys like sepcies number whatever.

Maksutov
2005-Oct-04, 04:52 AM
They are Yuppies cruising thru space in their BMW Condo, Bauhaus model, looking for planets to suck dry, in a never ending quest for good brie and chablis!!!!

Dale in AlaGood grief! That means that certain parts of southern California and Florida, the towns of Aspen and Vail, and all of Connecticut are controlled by the Borg.

Why am I not shocked? http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/3461/iconcool9io.gif

BTW, shouldn't the title of this thread be in either the present or future tense?

Josh
2005-Oct-04, 09:24 AM
Of course, the Borg queen is a lousy idea that violates the whole "collective" thing. Thrown in purely for plot purposes.

They are a collective with a hive mind ... just like bees or wasps or ants. The queen make total sense.

But, as seems to be the general consensus, I think they just evolved this way. experiemented with new tech and ended up becoming it.

Spacemad
2005-Oct-04, 10:04 AM
They are a collective with a hive mind ... just like bees or wasps or ants. The queen make total sense.

But, as seems to be the general consensus, I think they just evolved this way. experiemented with new tech and ended up becoming it.

I "concur" (as Spock, or any other Vulcan, might say!) with your summary, Josh. It would seem they had been a humanoid species originating in the Delta Quadrant & in their quest for knowledge they went down the path that led to them becoming cyborgs & the assimilation of any & every species they came across in their search for their "Holy Grail" - Perfection!

GDwarf
2005-Oct-04, 10:59 AM
I always thought that the Borg were humanoids, maybe created by some mad scientist or other as he strove to make the perfect worker, or [insert job here]. It also works to have the whole species trying to figure out a way to, say, make use of criminals, turn them into the Borg and you've go highly efficient workers (that would also help explain why assimilation is so painful). maybe they then added the ability to assimilate so that these criminals could track down others, or they developed it on their own. Of course, all of the above is simply raw guessing, but we're not exactly given much to work with.

BTW, I've always assumed that it was simply a point that none of the writers thought about, but why do the Borg assimilate people with their arm tubes, and also have assimilation chambers, where they do the same thing but instead of letting the nano probes do the work then simply tear off and replace limbs. I've never understood that. Why not just all one way or the other? Heck, surely just having assimilator drones inject all of the prisoners and then leave them would be far more efficient then having two or three spend an hour or so assimilating one.

astronomo flaquito
2005-Oct-04, 05:51 PM
It is science fiction, the "Borg" do not exist. But, that in mind, the Borg are us. That is, I believe the writers were making a statement about humans in general and the United States in particular. -It's our way or the highway (so to speak).- Human "policy" towards other forms of life is very much like that of the Borg, and the "foreign policy" of the United States is very much like that of the Borg when it comes to other humans.

gopher65
2005-Oct-04, 08:17 PM
You mean like "We are the <insert evil country of choice here>! Lower your trade barriers: your lingistic and cultural distinctivness shall become our own. Resistance is futile."

Glom
2005-Oct-04, 08:41 PM
A bunch of cuddly little guys... at least by the time B&B got through with them.

astronomo flaquito
2005-Oct-04, 10:12 PM
You got it gopher65! Though I don't necessarily think of it as "evil", I do believe that the US served as role model for the Borg. Many people who live in the US and have never lived elsewhere do not see that the US behaves this way, but it does.

When they made their first appearance, the Borg were very frightening. In addition to the unknown, I believe that the known can generate great fear in people. We see an artistic representation of something that we can also see in ourselves, recognize it as something profoundly negative, and thus fear it even more.

OptimusShr
2005-Oct-05, 12:31 AM
I always thought that the Borg were humanoids, maybe created by some mad scientist or other as he strove to make the perfect worker, or [insert job here]. It also works to have the whole species trying to figure out a way to, say, make use of criminals, turn them into the Borg and you've go highly efficient workers (that would also help explain why assimilation is so painful). maybe they then added the ability to assimilate so that these criminals could track down others, or they developed it on their own. Of course, all of the above is simply raw guessing, but we're not exactly given much to work with.


That's similar to my Borg origin theory. I always thought a scientist discovered how to make cyborgs and used them as workers. Eventually the became corrupt and started to assimilate the planet, and eventually the rest of the galaxy, slowly, but surely.

Maksutov
2005-Oct-05, 12:40 AM
They are an offshoot of the Archons (http://www.ericweisstein.com/fun/startrek/TheReturnOfTheArchons.html). Landru's malfunction was just a temporary condition. Once back online, Landru found another race to electronically lobotomize, which became the Borg.

novaderrik
2005-Oct-05, 12:52 AM
according to what i can remember from the shows, they are an ancient race.
whoopi's character in TNG- why can't i remember her name?- was of a race that fled from the Borg centuries before TNG takes place. in fact, she was on earth in the 1800's in that freaky time travel cliffhanger where Data's head got left in San Francisco when he was hanging with Mark twain. and i believe someone in one of the shows or movies said that they were a very ancient race.
i think that in whenever the next trek movie or series comes out, it will probably be shown that they are highly evolved humans- as in, from earth- from the future sent back to assimilate the galaxy. they are what we evolve into if we don't shed our evil ways and blah blah blah.
i wonder if Enterprise would have gotten around to this if it had made it to 7 seasons...

Maksutov
2005-Oct-05, 06:34 AM
according to what i can remember from the shows, they are an ancient race.
whoopi's character in TNG- why can't i remember her name?- was of a race that fled from the Borg centuries before TNG takes place. in fact, she was on earth in the 1800's in that freaky time travel cliffhanger where Data's head got left in San Francisco when he was hanging with Mark twain. and i believe someone in one of the shows or movies said that they were a very ancient race.
i think that in whenever the next trek movie or series comes out, it will probably be shown that they are highly evolved humans- as in, from earth- from the future sent back to assimilate the galaxy. they are what we evolve into if we don't shed our evil ways and blah blah blah.
i wonder if Enterprise would have gotten around to this if it had made it to 7 seasons..."Time's Arrow, Parts 1 and 2" was a real beaut. Guinan being a "contemporary" of Mark Twain and Jack London was hoot. BTW, those aliens weren't the Borg, they were the Devidians, an alien race capable of assuming human form, who were traveling back in time to steal human neural energy. The alien cave with those ghostly figures sucking up human essences was really spooky, and probably was based in part on the opium dens that were popular in Frisco back then.

Hokie
2005-Oct-05, 04:04 PM
In one of the Star Trek novels it was revealed that V’ger was created by the Borg. It seems odd that the Borg would help Voyager find its creator as the seem to only assimilate things or ignore it because it is of no use to them.

publiusr
2005-Oct-05, 06:05 PM
One episode of Enterprise had an automated dock that seemed like an early Venus flytrap to recruit members.

I also seem to remember a text reference to a mechanical species called "The Vegan Tyranny." (And here I thought straight-edgers hated spaceflight) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vega

Both the V'ger world and the Borg might be offshoots.

parallaxicality
2005-Oct-05, 06:21 PM
The Borg are an ancient race, far older than is often considered, certainly by later episodes. Guinan says that their fusion of the technological with the organic has been evolving for thousands of centuries, though this doesn't mean that the Borg have been marauding across the galaxy for thousands of centuries.

In the Trek verse, it's pretty clear that the Borg are their own species, Delta Quadrant originated. As for the Borg being America, that's an interesting point. The Federation is also very much like America, and Eddington, in a particularly perceptive bit of mockery, describes them as "worse than the Borg. At least they tell you when they are about to assimilate you."

The Queen didn't bother me; in fact I think she adds to their racial complexity. The idea of the Collective mind being personified in one entity doesn't really contradict what came before. Indeed, Data's claim at the end of "The Best of Both Worlds" that the Borg group consciousness is divided into "sub-commands" all controlled by a "root command" could be seen as unintentional foreshadowing of the Queen's appearance. The Queen is not a physical entity. She can appear on any ship, at any time, anywhere on the collective. She is a floating sentient presence within the Collective's computer matrix, very much a "root command."

gopher65
2005-Oct-06, 03:44 AM
In one of the Star Trek novels it was revealed that V’ger was created by the Borg. It seems odd that the Borg would help Voyager find its creator as the seem to only assimilate things or ignore it because it is of no use to them.

As I mentioned in another ST post, the Star Trek novels are not canon. They are fanfics. They are not connected to the official universe in any way.

Hokie
2005-Oct-06, 04:09 PM
According to the author Rodenberry approved of the idea and had always though that was the case.

novaderrik
2005-Oct-06, 06:20 PM
i knew the aliens in "Time's Arrow" weren't the Borg, but forgot to put that in my other post.
Guinan had said a few times in the sreies that her race was assimilated by the Borg, and that she was fleeing from them. when she was in Frisco in the 1800's, that meant that she had been fleeing for a long, long time by the tim she ended up as a bartender on the Federation flagship.. did she ever make an appearance in Enterprise? she was around then..
i wonder how long it was from the time she fled from them that she ended up on earth, and why did she fall in with that whacko in "Generations" that wanted to get into the Nexxus? especially when she KNEW that she was going to meet picard in a few hundred years, and that there was no possible way she could have gone into the Nexxus anyways without screwing up the timeline she already knew would happen. i guess when you're down and out, sometimes even the craziest things seem worth trying..
or did the writers not think that through?

SeanF
2005-Oct-07, 04:27 PM
i knew the aliens in "Time's Arrow" weren't the Borg, but forgot to put that in my other post.
Guinan had said a few times in the sreies that her race was assimilated by the Borg, and that she was fleeing from them. when she was in Frisco in the 1800's, that meant that she had been fleeing for a long, long time by the tim she ended up as a bartender on the Federation flagship.. did she ever make an appearance in Enterprise? she was around then..
Her appearance on Earth in the 1800s was before the Borg destroyed her planet. She said in the first Borg episode ("Q Who?") that, "My people encountered them a century ago. Our cities were destroyed -- our people scattered across the galaxy."


i wonder how long it was from the time she fled from them that she ended up on earth, and why did she fall in with that whacko in "Generations" that wanted to get into the Nexxus? especially when she KNEW that she was going to meet picard in a few hundred years, and that there was no possible way she could have gone into the Nexxus anyways without screwing up the timeline she already knew would happen. i guess when you're down and out, sometimes even the craziest things seem worth trying..
or did the writers not think that through?
The events early in Generations were when they were fleeing the Borg. Soran and the people on those ships were all Guinan's people (El Aurians). And their encounter with the Nexus was random, not planned - Guinan herself was never trying to go in (or back) to the Nexus.

novaderrik
2005-Oct-08, 01:25 AM
so, she took a vacation on the primitive planet earth in the 1800's, then went home for a few hundred years- knowing she would meet Picard and Data and Riker and Troi and all the yellow suits running around the Enterprise, and be an intergalactic bartender in the future- then her planet got assimilated by the Borg, and then they met the Nexxus?
why, then, did she not warn Picard- or even someone in the federation- of the borg, knowing as she did that they are such a bunch of bad dudes?

OptimusShr
2005-Oct-08, 04:08 PM
why, then, did she not warn Picard- or even someone in the federation- of the borg, knowing as she did that they are such a bunch of bad dudes?

As stated by her at the end of the episode where they meet the Borg: "Q had you meet the Borg sooner than it should have."

It's not what was exactly said but it's close enough for me.

Faultline
2005-Oct-08, 06:25 PM
Z'ere juz zeez guyz, juno?