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dvb
2005-Oct-22, 07:14 AM
I just noticed this article while browsing through google news.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3408065


WASHINGTON - Including the theory of "intelligent design" in high school biology courses would confuse, mislead and alienate students from fields where the number of U.S. researchers is dwindling, scientists warned at a debate on the issue Friday.

emphasis mine

They can't even make it out of the first sentence, without getting it wrong it seems. I emailed the author, Grand Schulte, and kindly explained to him the difference between theory and untestable hypothesis. Hopefully he'll correct it, but somehow I'm doubtful. :(

Wolverine
2005-Oct-22, 08:59 AM
I can't say I'm surprised, but applaud your effort nonetheless.

zebo-the-fat
2005-Oct-22, 10:41 AM
ID solves nothing, if some super intelegent creature/god/whatever made the universe/life etc. then who made it and where were the makers? (outside the universe??? ) Even if it was true, it just moves things back one step and solves nothing!

Disinfo Agent
2005-Oct-22, 06:16 PM
They can't even make it out of the first sentence, without getting it wrong it seems. I emailed the author, Grand Schulte, and kindly explained to him the difference between theory and untestable hypothesis. Hopefully he'll correct it, but somehow I'm doubtful. :(Come on, they're not scientists... As long as they don't call it science, I don't think there's a problem.

Intelligent Design on Trial (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/41260) ;)

Kristophe
2005-Oct-22, 07:14 PM
Come on, they're not scientists... As long as they don't call it science, I don't think there's a problem.

Intelligent Design on Trial (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/41260) ;)

The problem is that too many people accept modern evolutionary theory as "only a theory". To call ID a theory is putting it on equal footing with other legitimate theories in their minds. It paints an ugly picture of scientists trying to repress ideas and free speech dogmatically.

WaxRubiks
2005-Oct-22, 09:43 PM
If only someone could invent a time machine and then all these IDers could be sent back to the dark ages. See how they like the plague.

genebujold
2005-Oct-23, 05:45 PM
I just noticed this article while browsing through google news.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3408065

emphasis mine

They can't even make it out of the first sentence, without getting it wrong it seems. I emailed the author, Grand Schulte, and kindly explained to him the difference between theory and untestable hypothesis. Hopefully he'll correct it, but somehow I'm doubtful. :(

Hopefully, those who've hijacked the term "theory" for their own purposes will see clear towards returning it to the general public at large and intact with it's original meaning:

Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: the·o·ry
Pronunciation: 'thE-&-rE, 'thi(-&)r-E
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ries
Etymology: Late Latin theoria, from Greek theOria, from theOrein
1 : the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another
2 : abstract thought : SPECULATION
3 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art <music theory>
4 a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action <her method is based on the theory that all children want to learn> b : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances -- often used in the phrase in theory <in theory, we have always advocated freedom for all>
5 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena <wave theory of light>
6 a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b : an unproved assumption : CONJECTURE c : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject <theory of equations>
synonym see HYPOTHESIS

Main Entry: hy·poth·e·sis
Pronunciation: hI-'pä-th&-s&s
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural hy·poth·e·ses /-"sEz/
Etymology: Greek, from hypotithenai to put under, suppose, from hypo- + tithenai to put -- more at DO
1 a : an assumption or concession made for the sake of argument b : an interpretation of a practical situation or condition taken as the ground for action
2 : a tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical or empirical consequences
3 : the antecedent clause of a conditional statement
synonyms HYPOTHESIS, THEORY, LAW mean a formula derived by inference from scientific data that explains a principle operating in nature. HYPOTHESIS implies insufficient evidence to provide more than a tentative explanation <a hypothesis explaining the extinction of the dinosaurs>. THEORY implies a greater range of evidence and greater likelihood of truth <the theory of evolution>. LAW implies a statement of order and relation in nature that has been found to be invariable under the same conditions <the law of gravitation>.

Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothesis

***

Before you blast me for being sympathetic towards intelligent design...

HALT/STOP/CEASE/DESIST

The ONLY thing I'm unsympathetic towards is the misuse of the English language to gain a supposedly superior position from which to argue.

I find it the lowest form of arguement anyone could possibly put forth.

Argue the details as they exist, using the terms in common use today.

Stop trying to gain an unfair advantage by twisting and distorting the original meaning of the various terms involved.

Enough said.

Gillianren
2005-Oct-24, 02:57 AM
It's jargon, I'll admit. However, in science, the word "theory" has a very specific meaning, just as several other words (I'm thinking here of "heat") that have meanings in science that are at odds with how they get used in day-to-day life.

Is this pedantic? Well, now, that depends. I don't believe it is, simply because if we're going to pretend to have a scientific debate, which IDers surely are, we should be required to get our terminology right. After all, I wouldn't go into a debate about the speed of light referring to "those light particle thingys," now, would I? (Of course not. I'm too fond of words. But I think you see my point. At least, I hope you do.)

Van Rijn
2005-Oct-24, 04:57 AM
It's jargon, I'll admit. However, in science, the word "theory" has a very specific meaning, just as several other words (I'm thinking here of "heat") that have meanings in science that are at odds with how they get used in day-to-day life.

Is this pedantic? Well, now, that depends. I don't believe it is, simply because if we're going to pretend to have a scientific debate, which IDers surely are, we should be required to get our terminology right.

That's it exactly. We are discussing science and ID is not a theory in the scientific sense of the word. It is not falsifiable and there is no positive evidence. If this was a different subject (law, music, etc.), a different definition would be appropriate. If our educational system did a better job of explaining basic scientific concepts this wouldn't be an issue. It should be obvious why it isn't appropriate to call ID a theory, or to use the phrase "only a theory" when discussing evolution or any other scientific theory.

It is simply not appropriate to call ID a theory.

WaxRubiks
2005-Oct-24, 08:51 AM
Most creationists in America seem to want a theocracy- this seems to indicate a lack of faith in their particular church/s.

Yorkshireman
2005-Oct-24, 09:43 AM
There is a good short definition of a scientific theory here:

http://wilstar.com/theories.htm

Creationists encourage the general public to interpret a scientist's use of the word theory a the general use definition. They can then say that 'evolution is only a theory. My theory that life was created by God is an alternative theory'.