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View Full Version : Two New Moons for Pluto?



Fraser
2005-Oct-31, 08:10 PM
SUMMARY: Time to revise your idea of Pluto. New images gathered by the Hubble Space Telescope have revealed that this distant planet could two additional moons. If this is true, Pluto will be the first Kuiper Belt Object found to have multiple moons. The candidate moons have been provisionally named S/2005 P1 and S/2005 P2, and are approximately 44,000 km (27,000 miles) away from Pluto.

View full article (http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/two_new_moons_pluto.html)
What do you think about this story? post your comments below.

galacsi
2005-Oct-31, 08:21 PM
Planet Pluto don't surrender ! On the contrary Pluto got two new moons !

It is quite an accomplishment from such an old body !

ChesmontAstro
2005-Oct-31, 08:35 PM
Those are two KBOs that got close enough to be temporarily influenced by Pluto - they could just as easily wander off in a few months or years.

Planetwatcher
2005-Oct-31, 08:45 PM
Now it should be even harder then before to demote Pluto since it has more moons then 4 other planets. :naughty: Count em folks, Mercury, Venus, Earth, and Mars. :whistle:

I'll bet we just might find more yet, or perhaps even more around the other larger Kupier objects which have not yet been designated as planets. :think:

I think the good folks at the IAU General Assembly meeting will have to really work for their supper next year. :clap:

Wolverine
2005-Oct-31, 10:35 PM
This is so cool. I have to say, though, that I'm more interested in their characteristics than the involved nomenclature. Maybe it's just me, but as has been the case with 2003 UB313 and its S/2005 counterpart, I find that more important than the assigned designations.

Diamond
2005-Oct-31, 10:41 PM
For some reason, I was stunned open-mouthed when I read this announcement.

When is Pluto Express due to launch? Why can't they slow the spacecraft down into an orbit instead of a one shot flyby?

Andromeda321
2005-Nov-01, 01:09 AM
Hmm I must've missed it does it say anywhere in there how big they are? I can calculate it but I'm lazy. ;)

imported_alan
2005-Nov-01, 06:00 AM
More information here
www.boulder.swri.edu/plutonews

draknar
2005-Nov-01, 09:31 AM
Can someone explain why the big deal if pluto is consider a planet?

TwAgIssmuDe
2005-Nov-01, 10:49 AM
Pluto brings us more suprises, I find it very odd that a planet/kuiper belt object, smaller than our moon has three sattelites orbiting it. We just have to wait and see what more is there to find. And see if this find will affect the debate about pluto keeping its planet status.

cran
2005-Nov-01, 10:56 AM
starting to get a little crowded out there ...
onya, Pluto!

Eroica
2005-Nov-01, 02:45 PM
ToSeeked (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?p=590753#post590753)

Eroica
2005-Nov-01, 02:48 PM
Can someone explain why the big deal if pluto is consider a planet?
If Pluto can be a planet, then so can the thousands or tens of thousands of other Kuiper Belt Objects. In the eyes of some people that would devalue planethood. I don't think there's any other reason for the controversy.

crosscountry
2005-Nov-01, 02:50 PM
oops, I twoseeked this on the BABBling board

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/space/2005-10-31-pluto-moons_x.htm

Jakenorrish
2005-Nov-01, 02:57 PM
A while back in the old UT forum I discussed the Kuiper Belt region. It was my opinion that this region of space far from being a boring cold place full of similar objects would in fact be very diverse and full of surprises. This discovery has reinforced my opinion.

We need to get a mission there and explore the Kuiper belt as soon as possible. I'm hopeful that this discovery will add weight to the necessity to visit. We also suspect that some of the gas giant's moons to be captured KBO's so lets find out!

ToSeek
2005-Nov-01, 03:49 PM
For some reason, I was stunned open-mouthed when I read this announcement.

When is Pluto Express due to launch? Why can't they slow the spacecraft down into an orbit instead of a one shot flyby?

It would take a lot more fuel, so you'd need either a bigger launch vehicle or an even smaller spacecraft.

ToSeek
2005-Nov-01, 03:51 PM
I would encourage people to continue the discussion on this thread (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=34379) so all the comments are in one place.

Ilya
2005-Nov-01, 03:59 PM
Those are two KBOs that got close enough to be temporarily influenced by Pluto - they could just as easily wander off in a few months or years.
Not a chance. Read Background Information Regarding Our Two Newly Discovered Satellites of Pluto (http://www.boulder.swri.edu/plutonews/)


The result shown here means that the orbits of P1 and P2 are likely to be essentially circular, and in the plane of Plutoís equator, where Charonís orbits.

IOW, these two had been with Pluto for a long time -- likely for its entire existence.

John L
2005-Nov-01, 04:43 PM
And what should these two new moons be named? One, IMO should be Cerberus, the three-headed dog that guards the entrance to the Underworld. Charon, the currently named and largest moon, was the Ferryman to take you across the River Archeron into the Underworld, and of course Pluto is the God of the Underworld. What other Underworld names are there from mythology that would apply to these two moons?

John L
2005-Nov-01, 04:52 PM
Minos, Rhadamanthys, and Aeacus were the three judges of the Underworld that decided where your soul went. Asphodel was where neutral souls went, Tartarus was where evil souls went, and Elysium was where the heros and blessed went. All are possible moon names for the two new Plutonic moons.

Jakenorrish
2005-Nov-01, 09:11 PM
I was going to suggest Den and Hilda after famous UK soap opera characters, time for me to have a rethink.....!

Planetwatcher
2005-Nov-02, 08:03 AM
Quoting Fraser responding to Phil beating him in publishing the story of the additional moons around Pluto.


Curses, you beat me to it this time.

Fraser, if it's any consolation, you did beat Space Daily by over a whole day. :clap: Here's the documentation from my E-mail.

From: SpaceDaily Express Save Address (javascript:document.SaveAddress.submit();) | Headers (javascript:headerDisplay(1);)
To: planetwatcher@gmail.com
CC:
Date: 1 Nov 2005 20:05:15 -0600
Subject: SpaceDaily Express - November 2

I made one minor change in switching my private E-mail address which Space Daily and Universe Today both send to me for my public moderator E-mail address available to all members of this site.

and here are the captions of their stories.

- Astronomers Announce Discovery Of Two New Moons Of Pluto
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/outerplanets-05q.html (http://www.spacedaily.com/news/outerplanets-05q.html)

- NASA Says Pluto May Have Three Moons Instead Of One
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/outerplanets-05r.html (http://www.spacedaily.com/news/outerplanets-05r.html)

These were respectively the 5th and 6th stories listed. So Fraser and Phil both to seeked Space Daily on this very important story. :dance:

But then we already know who has the best daily space news magazine don't we.:D

Eroica
2005-Nov-02, 11:02 AM
And what should these two new moons be named? One, IMO should be Cerberus, the three-headed dog that guards the entrance to the Underworld. Cerberus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_asteroids_%281001-2000%29#801) is already taken. It's the name of asteroid 1865.

Eroica
2005-Nov-02, 11:08 AM
Minos, Rhadamanthys, and Aeacus were the three judges of the Underworld that decided where your soul went. Asphodel was where neutral souls went, Tartarus was where evil souls went, and Elysium was where the heros and blessed went. All are possible moon names for the two new Plutonic moons. 6239 Minos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_asteroids_%286001-7000%29#201)

38083 Rhadamanthus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/38083_Rhadamanthus) (no Rhadamanthys, though!)

No Aeacus, Asphodel, Tartarus or Elysium yet.

Vhear
2005-Nov-02, 12:36 PM
How bout Styx?

crosscountry
2005-Nov-02, 01:37 PM
these are usually named after human like creatures or Gods


rivers are not a common origin of name.

docbill
2005-Nov-02, 03:26 PM
Those are two KBOs that got close enough to be temporarily influenced by Pluto - they could just as easily wander off in a few months or years.

Not a chance. There are three obvious giveaways that these are moons I can see in the photos.
1. The positions the objects moved falls apon a near perfect circle around pluto.
2. The trailing object is in the L-5 position relative to the first object. This is the most stable position for two moons orbiting the same planet. (The inner moon is so much closer to pluto, to first order they can be considered a single object.)
3. The amount of relative motion along the circular arcs for the two moons is what I would expect for moons.

In fact, based on these facts, I would say not only are they moons, but they have been there a very long time. It would take a very long time for the second moon to settle into the L-5 position.

Bill

01101001
2005-Nov-02, 04:02 PM
2. The trailing object is in the L-5 position relative to the first object.

Wouldn't they then be the same distance from Pluto, instead of the announced (http://www.boulder.swri.edu/plutonews/):


This is a preliminary conclusion, but if it holds up, then the orbital semi-major axes of P1 and P2 are near 64,700 +/- 850 and 49,500 +/- 600 km, respectively. These semi-major axes in turn correspond to orbital periods of approximately 38.2 +/- 0.8 and 25.5 +/- 0.5 days, respectively.

Ray Bingham
2005-Nov-02, 05:47 PM
What amazing advances we have made in astronomy. Just a few years ago when Pluto and Charon were in a mutually eclipsing mode (or whatever it is called) we could only get pictures that showed a bunch of dark and light pixels and that was the best we knew about there even being a moon. Now we have nice clear pictures of not only the two of them having a reasonable visual separation but also of the two new satellites. What comes next. Real reasonable pictures of surface detail of something other than mars. Way to go science mankind.

Soon we will be able to recognize the wonders of Gods creation for His works. Not just some accident of a thermodynamic explosion.

Vhear
2005-Nov-02, 08:54 PM
What comes next. Real reasonable pictures of surface detail of something other than mars. Way to go science mankind.

Soon we will be able to recognize the wonders of Gods creation for His works. Not just some accident of a thermodynamic explosion.

Who knows what we'll see next. As techonology advances so will our understanding of nature (life, universe, etc...)around us. In the last 20 years we made tremendous leaps in our knowledge of our surroundings.

Also if you believe in creationism or that this is all God's work. That is your belief I respect that, but please dont' go flaming what other people say and what other people believe. It is their right to do so. And if your going to contradict something, dont' try to shove your view.