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Glom
2005-Nov-02, 11:44 PM
American schools seem to fly the Stars and Stripes widely. Is that a legal requirement of some kind or is it just a cultural thing?

Sammy
2005-Nov-03, 12:07 AM
I think it's cultural/tradition, but I must admit that I really don't know for sure.

01101001
2005-Nov-03, 12:32 AM
Florida state law requires a 2-by-3-foot flag in every public school classroom. I doubt there is any US law requiring flags at schools.

Candy
2005-Nov-03, 01:12 AM
The History of Flag Day (http://www.usflag.org/history/flagday.html)

The Fourth of July was traditionally celebrated as America's birthday, but the idea of an annual day specifically celebrating the Flag is believed to have first originated in 1885. BJ Cigrand, a schoolteacher, arranged for the pupils in the Fredonia, Wisconsin Public School, District 6, to observe June 14 (the 108th anniversary of the official adoption of The Stars and Stripes) as 'Flag Birthday'. In numerous magazines and newspaper articles and public addresses over the following years, Cigrand continued to enthusiastically advocate the observance of June 14 as 'Flag Birthday', or 'Flag Day'.

In 1894, the governor of New York directed that on June 14 the Flag be displayed on all public buildings. With BJ Cigrand and Leroy Van Horn as the moving spirits, the Illinois organization, known as the American Flag Day Association, was organized for the purpose of promoting the holding of Flag Day exercises. On June 14th, 1894, under the auspices of this association, the first general public school children's celebration of Flag Day in Chicago was held in Douglas, Garfield, Humboldt, Lincoln, and Washington Parks, with more than 300,000 children participating.

Inspired by these three decades of state and local celebrations, Flag Day - the anniversary of the Flag Resolution of 1777 - was officially established by the Proclamation of President Woodrow Wilson on May 30th, 1916. While Flag Day was celebrated in various communities for years after Wilson's proclamation, it was not until August 3rd, 1949, that President Truman signed an Act of Congress designating June 14th of each year as National Flag Day.
It looks like an annual tradition celebrating Flag Day, then a National Holiday, may have inspired public buildings to fly the Flag daily. My company flies the US Flag, State Flag, and UA Flag year round.

Enzp
2005-Nov-03, 07:56 AM
Many public buildings are required to fly a flag, but it is also cultural. Around here enormous flags grace gas stations and hardware stores. I am not a zealot, but when flags get ratty, I do go in and address the issue with the manager. Please either fix it or take it down.

One time I went into a little sporting goods store with a flag that looked like an old T shirt used to wash cars. Torn and gray. Only a young fellow at the counter, so I told him I thought the condition of their flag was an insult. He told me he liked the beat up flag. He said it reminded him "of the Star Spangled Banner and the revolution, you know, Fort Sumner." I asked him if me might be thinking of Fort Sumpter where the CIVIL war started? "Whatever." I went off pondering what, if anything, they teach in the schools, but I did notice a few days later that the ratty US flag had been replaced by a new flag supporting the local football team. Citizenship in action.

ANother time I went by a small drive through postal sub-station where the flag was flying upside down. Traditionally that is a cry for help, but I didn't think the little building was sinking so I asked at the window if there was any distress there. The guy admitted to running the flag up quickly and not looking after he was done. But he was not allowed to leave the building and could not correct the problem. With his permission, I struck the flag and ran it back up in proper fashion. Mattered to me.

EvilBob
2005-Nov-03, 08:09 AM
Funny how cultures are different. I know the United Statesians and the Swiss are immensely proud of showing the flag - here in Australia most people wouldn't do that. Australians tend to get a bit embarrassed when someone wraps themself in the flag. It's very rare for someone to have a flag flying at home, or to see it anywhere other than government buildings.

Enzp
2005-Nov-03, 08:24 AM
We tend to be more in-your-face about it, I think.

captain swoop
2005-Nov-03, 08:26 AM
Same in the UK, it's seen as a sign that you are a Right Wing Extremist, BNP or National Front type.

EvilBob
2005-Nov-03, 08:27 AM
Something like that. My wife was in Vegas a few years ago, watching some display outside a casino, and at the end, when the flag was lowered and the anthem played, everyone stood with their hand over their hearts for it. She was amazed - no-one would ever do that here on that sort of occasion.


Same in the UK, it's seen as a sign that you are a Right Wing Extremist, BNP or National Front type.

It's a bit like that in Aust, but I wasn't going to say that for fear of getting political! The kind of person who buries guns 'in case' and trains their 5 year old in the deadly arts...

Lianachan
2005-Nov-03, 08:33 AM
We have the accursed Union Flag (http://www.fotw.net/flags/gb.html) flying at work. I'd far rather see the Saltire (http://www.fotw.net/flags/gb-scotl.html) every morning, but sadly, since it's a government site, that won't be happening.

:sad:

Scottish people tend to be proud of their country, and the Saltire is a pretty common sight. So is the Royal Banner of Scotland (http://www.fotw.net/flags/gb-sc-rb.html), although I think it's use is technically illegal... I don't think I've ever seen it correctly printed anyway, with the blue on the lion.

In my many travels to England, I've noticed that Union Flags tend to be far more common than the English flag (http://www.fotw.net/flags/gb-eng.html) - perhaps the English generally don't have the same sense of cultural identity that we Scots feel, and largely consider themselves British?

Candy
2005-Nov-03, 08:41 AM
After 9/11, there was a surge in displaying a little "heritage" flag on your vehicle's antenna or back window. Well, here in Chicago, it is big. I see Mexico, Italy, German, Poland, and others I don't recognize. These are usually 2nd generation Americans.

Heid the Ba'
2005-Nov-03, 01:14 PM
Most of the big companies in Edinburgh fly Saltires, often as well as company flags. (RBoS, HBOS etc.) It is very rare to see a flag flying from a small business or private home.

Lianachan
2005-Nov-03, 01:16 PM
Most of the big companies in Edinburgh fly Saltires, often as well as company flags. (RBoS, HBOS etc.) It is very rare to see a flag flying from a small business or private home.

No up here it isnay! Tsk.......southerners. Bonus points for changing your location though!

:clap:

Heid the Ba'
2005-Nov-03, 01:24 PM
Anything to pacify the rapacious Highland wolves........

Argos
2005-Nov-03, 01:32 PM
Funny how cultures are different. I know the United Statesians and the Swiss are immensely proud of showing the flag - here in Australia most people wouldn't do that. Australians tend to get a bit embarrassed when someone wraps themself in the flag. It's very rare for someone to have a flag flying at home, or to see it anywhere other than government buildings.

During the unhappy military rule down here it was forbidden to use the flag, unless under very strict rules. It was kinda sacred thing. When democracy was re-established people turned to the flag as a symbol of defiance and liberty. Thatīs how we see it today. People use it in every possible way, from bikinis to tea cups. Itīs not a nationalist thing. Itīs an expression of joy. I personally use it sometimes for aesthetical and intellectual reasons. It features the celestial sphere as it were in the night of the Independence day (11/7/1822), designed by astronomers of the National Observatory. It is the main iconic element of the flag. One of the few astronomy-related flags in the world!

Lianachan
2005-Nov-03, 01:47 PM
One of the few astronomy-related flags in the world!

If you don't count the Islamic moon, a common feature in flags, that is!

Your flag is one of the coolest on the planet, without doubt.

Argos
2005-Nov-03, 01:51 PM
If you don't count the Islamic moon, a common feature in flags, that is!

Oh, thatīs astrology. :) (no offense)

teddyv
2005-Nov-03, 03:43 PM
American schools seem to fly the Stars and Stripes widely. Is that a legal requirement of some kind or is it just a cultural thing?

I'm pretty sure every school in Canada also flies the Maple Leaf (except maybe in Quebec, where the Fleur-de-lis would likely be common as well)

Laminal Cockroach
2005-Nov-03, 04:34 PM
There should be one flag of like the The Whole World ? Do you think if there are aliens in other planets they have divided themselves like the humans and have thier own flag, what if they come to earth with thier only flag, which flag of ours are we gonna show, i guess america, which is not fair..

pghnative
2005-Nov-03, 04:42 PM
Funny how cultures are different. I know the United Statesians and the Swiss are immensely proud of showing the flag - here in Australia most people wouldn't do that. Australians tend to get a bit embarrassed when someone wraps themself in the flag. It's very rare for someone to have a flag flying at home, or to see it anywhere other than government buildings.However, I recall a story in Sports Illustrated ~15 years ago in which Greg Norman was interviewed. (For those who don't know him, he is a famous professional golfer who either has dual citizenship, US/Australia, or at least has maintained his Australian citizenship while living in the US). At his Florida home he had one flagpole with both the US and Australian flag flying. The neighbors complained, since the US flag was on the bottom. So he built a second flagpole and flew both.

According to the story, one of the flagpoles (he didn't specify which one, but one can guess) was a few inches higher than the other.

So that's at least one Australian who is proud of showing his flag. Perhaps it was just the US influence on him that made him do it.

Moose
2005-Nov-03, 04:53 PM
I'm pretty sure every school in Canada also flies the Maple Leaf (except maybe in Quebec, where the Fleur-de-lis would likely be common as well)

Many schools do, maybe even most, but it isn't a requirement as far as I know. It's not a requirement of public buildings (at least at the provincial level), because ours doesn't fly one (nor the NB flag, for that matter.)

It's not unheard of for households here to fly the Canadian flag, but it's by no means common practice. As much as Canadians love our country, we just don't seem to feel much need to make a show of it. Canadians are not terribly unlike the proverbial old married couple that quitely grumble about the little annoying habits of their spouse while knowing the whole time we'd never want to have it any other way.

We are who we are, and that's usually plenty for Canadians.

Halcyon Dayz
2005-Nov-03, 06:21 PM
Maybe the fact that Americans all tend to be so very different
from each other, makes them take the few things they all do
have in common, the flag and national anthem, more seriously.

Gillianren
2005-Nov-03, 07:20 PM
There should be one flag of like the The Whole World ? Do you think if there are aliens in other planets they have divided themselves like the humans and have thier own flag, what if they come to earth with thier only flag, which flag of ours are we gonna show, i guess america, which is not fair..

Actually, I find it more likely than not that any alien civilization would have the same concept of dividing groups by region that humans do. I would find a one-alien-world government at most stages of planetary development unlikely. (And there's always the UN flag, but I think which flag we show aliens will depend on where they land, don't you?)

My high school had the flag poles out front, but I'm not sure we had flags in every classroom, because, well, California schools don't have a lot of money, and better textbooks than flags, right? Certainly I don't remember saluting the flag except at assemblies in high school.

One of the most annoying cultural phenomena post-9/11 was those little flags on cars that get rained on and left in the dark and all sorts of other things that are supposed to be disrespectful to the flag. (Though up here, we don't much sweat the whole "rained on" thing, because if we did, the flag'd never be up.) Now, four years later, some people still have the same faded, battered vinyl flag hanging from their antenna in what's intended to be a sign of devotion to the country but what is actually considered really, really disrespectful. In fact, those flags should all be taken out and disposed of in a respectful fashion. (According to the guidelines, that means burned, but I hope they don't burn the vinyl flags. I'm not a big fan of noxious fumes.)

Matherly
2005-Nov-03, 08:25 PM
Gillianren,

According to the flag ettique at wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_etiquette_of_the_United_States), burning is the prefered method of disposing of the flag but that any "dignified" maner of destruction is allowed.

A nice burial maybe?

JMV
2005-Nov-03, 09:20 PM
Gillianren,

According to the flag ettique at wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_etiquette_of_the_United_States), burning is the prefered method of disposing of the flag but that any "dignified" maner of destruction is allowed.

A nice burial maybe?
I don't know about American flag etiquette, but Finnish flag must not be buried, actually it must never touch the ground. An alternative disposal method to burning is to cut it to so small pieces that they're not recognizable as parts of the flag. Preferably the pieces should be then put into different trash bins.

Taks
2005-Nov-03, 09:50 PM
After 9/11, there was a surge in displaying a little "heritage" flag on your vehicle's antenna or back window. Well, here in Chicago, it is big. I see Mexico, Italy, German, Poland, and others I don't recognize. These are usually 2nd generation Americans. i refused... my wife even tried to get me to put a magnet flag on my car. it is not proper flag etiquette to display a flag improperly.


The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed, or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard.i take this to mean bumper sticker flags, and flags on my antenna, are not proper etiquette.

taks

Lianachan
2005-Nov-03, 09:55 PM
Flags of the World (http://www.fotw.net) tells you just about everything there is to know about flags. Flags in general, and individual flags. Pretty much every flag you've ever heard of is there, and 1000's more besides.

SolusLupus
2005-Nov-03, 10:05 PM
When I first saw this, I thought this was the military newspaper that I saw on-base in Korea for a long time. It was called the "Stars and Stripes".

Argos
2005-Nov-03, 10:16 PM
Iīm affraid that the US flag etiquete has become a dead letter (just like the Brazilian flag military etiquete I cited above). People are very creative in using national colors nowadays and nothing will stop them. I think itīs fine.

Moose
2005-Nov-03, 10:25 PM
The Canadian flag must not touch the ground. We are, IIRC, allowed to fly it at night and in the rain without issue, so long as the flag is not allowed to become tattered or faded. When it wears out, it must be disposed of in a respectful way (usually by burning.)

Protest burning isn't much of an issue in Canada, in both the legal sense and the sense that people don't seem to feel the need to do it very often. Probably because nobody seems to get very offended about it. It's important to remember that a symbol is just that: a symbol. Burning a flag desecrates neither the country nor the ideals it supposedly stands for.

SolusLupus
2005-Nov-03, 11:21 PM
Burning the flag is symbolic as well.

A flag is burned when it's old and dirty, tattered and faded. To burn an entirely new flag is symbolic of the government being tattered and faded, not the flag. That's the statement that's being made by protestors. A lot of people feel this about the US. I don't necessarily agree with them, but that's the statement.

Candy
2005-Nov-04, 12:51 AM
People use it in every possible way, from bikinis to tea cups.
They do that here, too. The US and British Flag's are very popular clothing items.

Enzp
2005-Nov-04, 04:32 AM
I find it interesting that today you can display patriotism by wearing flag pattern pants and shirt, fanny pack, hat, motorcycle seat, and so on. You can put our flag on your butt and still be considered rah rah.

40 years ago, in our town, a friend had a VW van painted in stars and stripes, and the local police arrested him for flag desecration. In those times it was a way to mess with people in a group they found undesirable. (flag desecration laws, that is.)

Celestial Mechanic
2005-Nov-04, 06:11 AM
In addition to the stars on the Brazilian flag, don't forget that both Australia and New Zealand have the Southern Cross on their flags, so that's three nations with astronomical themes.

Among the American states, Alaska has a representation of the Big Dipper and Polaris on its flag.

As for the Crescent and Star on the flags of various Islamic nations, it is a religious symbol (just like the various crosses on the flags of some European countries), but it is fashioned after the familiar sight of a crescent Moon and Venus in the sky together.

Argos
2005-Nov-04, 11:43 AM
They do that here, too. The US and British Flag's are very popular clothing items.

Yes. Thatīs why I say that flags arenīt much of a sacred thing anymore, and I think itīs good. Few people would deliberately disrespect a flag, so let them express themselves. I canīt see a better demonstration of respect and love for a nation than featuring the flag on a beautiful womanīs bikini. :)


In addition to the stars on the Brazilian flag, don't forget that both Australia and New Zealand have the Southern Cross on their flags, so that's three nations with astronomical themes.
Yep, and all of them are beautiful flags.

captain swoop
2005-Nov-04, 03:10 PM
As far as I know theres no laws appertaining to flags inthe UK. Apart from the various Naval Ensigns.

If you are cought displaying a White (RN) or Blue (RNR) ensign by the Navy they will forcibly remove it. I have seen a cruiser boarded in Great Yarmouth Harbour by ratings from HMS Orkney (Fishery protection ship) the cruiser was flying a White ensign, they removed it. Certain organisations have permission to use the Ensigns 'defaced' with their own emblem, usualy Yacht clubs and such.

farmerjumperdon
2005-Nov-04, 07:43 PM
I'll have to do a little reconiotering, but my guess is that in my neck of the woods about half of the homes fly a flag; and quite a few of them are pretty impressive displays (tall, prominently placed poles with relatively large flags).

I live in semi-rural WI, in a small town that is quickly becoming a bedroom community of the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul. Space-wise, farms still dominate, and their rate and method of display is very high.

zebo-the-fat
2005-Nov-04, 08:04 PM
We don't need to fly the flag on every building, in the UK we know what country we live in without being constantly reminded! :razz:

<runs and hides!>

SolusLupus
2005-Nov-05, 04:50 AM
Argos, you crack me up because you inspire the "devil's advocate" in me in the worst of ways.

For instance:


Yes. That&#180;s why I say that flags aren&#180;t much of a sacred thing anymore, and I think it&#180;s good. Few people would deliberately disrespect a flag, so let them express themselves. I can&#180;t see a better demonstration of respect and love for a nation than featuring the flag on a beautiful woman&#180;s bikini.

This is... a good point. I can just imagine it now. A young woman sitting upon a young man's shoulders, displaying her flag's colors on her bra, which all the men look towards and smile their smiles...

But that's the best case scenario for wearing the flag.

For instance: What about if you get an 80 year old man that's pretty... well, VERY unattractive... who wears the flag colors as his underwear? Oh, and he has chronic messes from a bad bladder.

I'm sorry, but I find it amusing when everyone explains the best, because then I have to think about the worst.

JMV
2005-Nov-05, 11:46 AM
I found it rather odd when Brazilian football players after the game wiped their sweat on Brazilian flags and used them almost like towels. And I hoped I didn't see right when I noticed someone blowing his nose on a flag. This short of behavior is more and more common with athletes and I was saddened to see that even some Finnish athletes were guilty of wrapping their sweaty bodies in flags. I'd prefer to see athletes carrying flags on poles and not drape themselves in them. But we all come from different cultures and have different views on what's appropriate use of a flag.

galacsi
2005-Nov-05, 12:03 PM
Same in the UK, it's seen as a sign that you are a Right Wing Extremist, BNP or National Front type.

In western Europe we dont like much these exibitions.

Two world wars have teached us a little modesty.

(Ach krieg gross catastroph ! )

Then in france we had the colonial wars , Indochina , Algeria .

So most people are fed up with nationalism.

Argos
2005-Nov-05, 01:47 PM
Argos, you crack me up because you inspire the "devil's advocate" in me in the worst of ways.

For instance:
What about if you get an 80 year old man that's pretty... well, VERY unattractive... who wears the flag colors as his underwear? Oh, and he has chronic messes from a bad bladder.

Come to think of it, you could be right. :)

Gillianren
2005-Nov-05, 06:16 PM
In Night Watch, by Terry Pratchett (just found a first edition for $5!), the "revolutionaries" are waving the flag and (badly) singing the national anthem. This is immediately regarded as suspicious behavior. (Or, given that it's an English author, behaviour.)

LurchGS
2005-Nov-05, 07:34 PM
They do that here, too. The US and British Flag's are very popular clothing items.

As I recall, you can wear the US flag ON your clothing (so long as it's not disrespectful), but you are not allowed to make clothing from the flag... most companies dodge around the whole issue by using a REPRESENTATION of the flag.. several stripes and a few stars, that sorta thing. Offhand, I can't recall any advertising that makes/made use of the flag (I discount the patriotic propaganda post 9/11)

Yea, I don't consider myself a zealot, but I, too have stopped to suggest that somebody's flag be retired and a new one put in placel. I've even stopped by places at night where the spotlights are out - if you don't have a replacement bulb, strike the flag.

My heart may be pure, and my head may be strong, but my will is flagging

Candy
2005-Nov-06, 06:25 AM
As I recall, you can wear the US flag ON your clothing (so long as it's not disrespectful), but you are not allowed to make clothing from the flag... most companies dodge around the whole issue by using a REPRESENTATION of the flag.. several stripes and a few stars, that sorta thing. Yes, you are correct.

farmerjumperdon
2005-Nov-07, 03:41 PM
We don't need to fly the flag on every building, in the UK we know what country we live in without being constantly reminded! :razz:

<runs and hides!>

That explains why I'm constantly running into people holding their head in their hands, rubbing their temples, and mumbling to themselves "Where was I?"

I usually tell them I'd be glad to help if they will just clarify the time insinuated by the use of past tense "was." Either that or I point to a little picture on my wall. It's a shot of a spiral galaxy with the little "YOU ARE HERE" sign and an arrow pointing to the approximate location of Earth.

LurchGS
2005-Nov-07, 10:51 PM
That explains why I'm constantly running into people holding their head in their hands, rubbing their temples, and mumbling to themselves "Where was I?"
.


<snicker> It's more fun in my circles. I keep running into people who don't finish the thought "what was I doing?"

----

"get the SuperCoup, Fred!"

Lianachan
2005-Nov-08, 11:36 AM
Same in the UK, it's seen as a sign that you are a Right Wing Extremist, BNP or National Front type.

In the northern end of the UK, it's seen as a sign that you're a Rangers supporter. No, hang on, that's what you just said.

:)