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long live the queeb
2005-Dec-02, 03:06 PM
It was reported on the BBC this morning (2/12/05) That city hedge fund managers will be in line for new year bonuses of between ,1000,000- 10,000,000. Now bearing in mind that the only wealth these people create is for themselves, or their uber-rich clients, do any other members here find this an obscene waste of money? Particularly at a time when the rest of us are being told to tighten our collective belts, and retire later than we were promised. :mad:

captain swoop
2005-Dec-02, 03:12 PM
Only obscene if you aint getting it

long live the queeb
2005-Dec-02, 03:28 PM
Only obscene if you aint getting it

So in other words its obscene to 99% of people. Thank you.

captain swoop
2005-Dec-02, 04:06 PM
not bothered either way, good luck to them if they can get it.
Would you like to see a cap on wages?

It's life I am afraid, it comes with capitalism. the other systems failed.

SolusLupus
2005-Dec-02, 04:19 PM
not bothered either way, good luck to them if they can get it.
Would you like to see a cap on wages?

It's life I am afraid, it comes with capitalism. the other systems failed.

Right, because we all know that we have always had a PURE capitalistic society. I mean, laws never affected business or "free trade" at all. Oh, wait.

long live the queeb
2005-Dec-02, 04:26 PM
not bothered either way, good luck to them if they can get it.
Would you like to see a cap on wages?

It's life I am afraid, it comes with capitalism. the other systems failed.

What you have to understand is that these are not wages, in the sence that you mean. There is a huge difference between say a factory owner, who provides work, goods and services for the community as a whole, making a packet, and City Bankers GIVING EACH OTHER such monsterous remunerations. A nurse who earns 25,000 a year doing work that is invaluable to the whole community, would have to work for 40 years for the lower figure, and 400 years for the higher. are you seriously saying that you can see nothing wrong with this farcial state of affairs.And sweeping generalisations like "It comes with capitalism" cut no ice, what ever it comes with its obscene. And to further sicken, these "bonuses" are at the expence of over 30,000 job redundancies in the banking sector in the last 5 years.

SolusLupus
2005-Dec-02, 04:33 PM
The "it comes with capitalism" sounds reminiscent of the idea that "if you're against my agenda, you're a communist!"

At least, that's the extreme way it can be taken. "It comes with capitalism" is a blanket statement used to justify ... well, whatever you want to justify when it comes to money. I'm not claiming that you're calling people who disagree communists, Swoop, just explaining why that blanket statement can be stepping on thin ice.

The Supreme Canuck
2005-Dec-02, 04:38 PM
Just want to pop in here to say that discussing the benefits of capitalism may not be appropriate on this board. We've had a few threads melt down lately.

long live the queeb
2005-Dec-02, 04:41 PM
Just want to pop in here to say that discussing the benefits of capitalism may not be appropriate on this board. We've had a few threads melt down lately.

Point taken Canuck. I will desist...........

SolusLupus
2005-Dec-02, 05:04 PM
Captain Swoop started it! Don't make me get my mommy!

Okay, in all seriousness, I'll desist from the conversation.

captain swoop
2005-Dec-02, 05:22 PM
Yup, agree.

sarongsong
2005-Dec-02, 07:50 PM
...city hedge fund managers will be in line for new year bonuses of between ,1000,000- 10,000,000...the only wealth these people create is for themselves, or their uber-rich clients...Are these managers city employees?

farmerjumperdon
2005-Dec-02, 08:11 PM
Reminds me of #3 from the Toip Ten Things Heard from Consultants:

Top Ten Things Heard from Consultants

Number 10: “Everyone in our organization is not a VP. We also have several directors and huge billing, accounts receivable, and collections departments.”

Number 9: "We need you to tell us what you do. Everything, in writing, in detail, and in very simple terms; so we can hire someone cheaper to read from what you write."

Number 8: "Would you say this is something we could train Cub Scouts to do? Hypothetically of course."

Number 7: “Yes, we did notice these are the same recommendations your employees have been making for years.”

Number 6: "Do you think your job could be done more efficiently if you weren't doing it."

Number 5: "We've flown these nice young men a long way to see you. The least you could do is train them how to do your job."

Number 4: “We are glad to see you have embraced our recommendations, but no, we don’t actually do any of the work. Apologies if there was any confusion about that. Can we cash out our contract now, our next windfall, er, uh, client is waiting”

Number 3: "Profits will be much higher this year because of lowered expenses, which would be great for your bonus if you weren't part of the lower expenses."

Number 2: “We’re reviewing the process, not the people. Can’t you process things any faster?”

And the number 1 thing you can expect to hear from a consultant: "The organization is making great strides towards a new vision for the future and truly becoming a part of the global marketplace. Hope you don’t mind relocating your family to New Dehli and doing the same job for 20% of your current pay and no benefits? . . . while living in squalor of course. We expect our stockholders will be ecstatic about the idea."

mugaliens
2005-Dec-03, 12:35 AM
So in other words its obscene to 99% of people. Thank you.

Yes, definately obscene. What happened to the democratic process of being able to vote them out of office?

paulie jay
2005-Dec-03, 12:56 AM
Pardon my ignorance, but what are "City Bonuses"? Are we talking about private organisations paying end of year bonuses to their executives?

If that is the case, I think that it's not very good form if that company has just laid off thousands of workers. But, I also believe that a private company has the right to do what they want with their organisation providing it isn't illegal.

Wolverine
2005-Dec-03, 01:28 AM
Is there a link available to this story? If it heavily leans into the political territory I suspect, it should be discussed elsewhere. I'd like to see for certain though before prematurely locking the discussion.

TriangleMan
2005-Dec-03, 11:17 PM
This article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/11/20/nhedge20.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/11/20/ixhome.html) is probably it. But it also explains why these guys make the money they do:

Here's a way of assessing the magnitude of the spoils that accrue to them. EuroHedge says these funds have $213 billion under management. And the return may be around 10 per cent on average this year (it was more than seven per cent for the first nine months of the year).

So let's assume that the profit on these funds is $21 billion this year. The managers of these funds reap 20 per cent of any gain, so that's $4.2 billion shared between 200 or 300 people.

What's more, that $4.2 billion is pure profit, because the funds typically charge investors about 2 per cent a year for the privilege of taking their money. That charge - of around $4 billion in total - pays all salaries, the rent on West End offices, and the high cost of computers, data and software.
Basically these guys make great returns on investment so people give them lots of money to invest. If they make a great return they and their clients benefit, if they don't they make almost nothing. Fair enough. 10% return on billions of dollars is very impressive in today's market.

Van Rijn
2005-Dec-04, 03:10 AM
This article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/11/20/nhedge20.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/11/20/ixhome.html) is probably it. But it also explains why these guys make the money they do:

Basically these guys make great returns on investment so people give them lots of money to invest. If they make a great return they and their clients benefit, if they don't they make almost nothing. Fair enough. 10% return on billions of dollars is very impressive in today's market.

And if you mess up, or things go sour, you can lose, badly. Seems reasonable to me.

montebianco
2005-Dec-04, 03:24 AM
At least, that's the extreme way it can be taken. "It comes with capitalism" is a blanket statement used to justify ... well, whatever you want to justify when it comes to money.

Justify to whom? A large percentage of the people on this board, including many of those complaining about the city bonuses, probably seem mega-rich to the hundreds of millions in the world who live on less than $1 a day, the number the World Bank uses to define extreme poverty. How would the people on this board justify their fat salaries to the world's extreme poor?

SolusLupus
2005-Dec-04, 03:39 AM
Justify to whom? A large percentage of the people on this board, including many of those complaining about the city bonuses, probably seem mega-rich to the hundreds of millions in the world who live on less than $1 a day, the number the World Bank uses to define extreme poverty. How would the people on this board justify their fat salaries to the world's extreme poor?

I wrote up a responce to this, but I remembered that I shouldn't talk politics on here. So I won't.

Wolverine
2005-Dec-04, 03:51 AM
Having reviewed the article and subject matter in question, this should indeed be pursued elsewhere. Sorry folks.