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banquo's_bumble_puppy
2005-Dec-12, 04:05 PM
Los Angeles has had a history of civil unrest. In light of the Tookie Williams case; are there special precautions, extra police, etc. being put in place in Los Angeles?

Metricyard
2005-Dec-12, 04:43 PM
I'm sure there are. This is just the sort of event that just fuels the fire for unrest.

After the Rodney King incident, you can bet that the state police/national guard have been told to get get ready for action.

farmerjumperdon
2005-Dec-12, 07:52 PM
Who is Tookie Williams? Is there a case with racist tones coming to an end there?

Monique
2005-Dec-12, 07:57 PM
Who is Tookie Williams? Is there a case with racist tones coming to an end there?
I must ask same question. Who is "Tookie Williams"? What is issue involve?

Wolverine
2005-Dec-12, 08:00 PM
Who is Tookie Williams? Is there a case with racist tones coming to an end there?

See here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4520534.stm).

This discussion might be best-served someplace else. In the meantime, let's make it a point not to get into matters political.

Hugh Jass
2005-Dec-12, 08:09 PM
Tookie Williams is scheduled to be executed tomorrow night. He was one of the founders of the "CRIPS" Los Angeles street gang. He was convicted of multiple murders in association with robberies. Without getting into the heated political debate of capital punishment (I'm sure that subject has the potential to ban about a dozen people within 12 posts) He is seen, or at least portrayed as someone who has truly paid his dues and may have been wrongly accused. For the last decade + of his incarceration he has been very outspoken against violence and even written children’s books. The Daily Show has had some good input. Basically there are more than just the normal anti-death penalty folks rallying around this case, and it is a bigger news story than most others. The potential for racial explosion is huge surrounding this case, and I do feel a bit scared about the possible outcomes.

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2005-Dec-12, 08:13 PM
Hugh, I agree that the outcome could be bad...let's hope that cooler heads prevail. As far as this post goes...ditto...

Monique
2005-Dec-12, 08:16 PM
Tookie Williams is scheduled to be executed tomorrow night. He was one of the founders of the "CRIPS" Los Angeles street gang. He was convicted of multiple murders in association with robberies. Without getting into the heated political debate of capital punishment (I'm sure that subject has the potential to ban about a dozen people within 12 posts) He is seen, or at least portrayed as someone who has truly paid his dues and may have been wrongly accused. For the last decade + of his incarceration he has been very outspoken against violence and even written children’s books. The Daily Show has had some good input. Basically there are more than just the normal anti-death penalty folks rallying around this case, and it is a bigger news story than most others. The potential for racial explosion is huge surrounding this case, and I do feel a bit scared about the possible outcomes.
I wish you luck. Violence do not solve problems. Violence make excuse for more anger and hate. Cycle do not seem to have end. We have bad time here, I believe trouble make future more complex. I do not wish to see same for you.

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2005-Dec-12, 08:25 PM
Monique has the rioting in France ended yet?

Monique
2005-Dec-12, 08:30 PM
Monique has the rioting in France ended yet?
No riots now, no issue fixed. I do not know for tomorrow. I do not like.

Gillianren
2005-Dec-12, 10:32 PM
LA has riots about every twenty to thirty years. They're not due yet. (Before Rodney King, there was Watts. Before Watts, there was--no, really--the Zoot Suit Riot, back in the 1940s. Before that, I'd need notes from my California history class, and I didn't take any.)

Someone ten years ago told me there'd've been rioting in LA if OJ Simpson had been convicted. Not a chance. Nobody felt that strongly that I knew of, and I'm pretty sure I personally knew some of the Rodney King rioters. As to this new possibility . . . well, we'll see.

Hugh Jass
2005-Dec-12, 11:00 PM
Someone ten years ago told me there'd've been rioting in LA if OJ Simpson had been convicted. Not a chance. Nobody felt that strongly that I knew of, and I'm pretty sure I personally knew some of the Rodney King rioters. As to this new possibility . . . well, we'll see.

I think there is the underlying sentiment about race and economic divide still in the air from Katrina relief issues and aftermath. That plus this particular case is so much more polarizing than most death penalty cases due to the political grandstanding about the reporting of the "facts" of the case. I"m having a hard time typing here, just because I am so close to falling outside of what is an acceptable post. Basically I have fairly callous attitude toward these cases most of the time, and as far as I have been able to determine if anyone should be exonerated this guy should be. I feel that if I feel that way there are most likely others who are willing to express their personal feelings of injustice being done by starting riots, and I'm afraid it may not be isolated to LA this time but reach other cities in California as well.

Joff
2005-Dec-13, 12:12 AM
Leaving the death penalty aside briefly, it seems to me that he's guilty of one of the most serious "crimes" possible. I quote the word "crimes" because I don't know what it would be called or whether it's in the statute book. I strongly believe that as a founder of a violent criminal gang, even if he committed no murder in person, he takes a share of responsibility in all the criminal activity of that gang, which doubtless does include many murders along with many other fear-inducing activities. In fact - this is the "crime" - he created and promoted a culture of violent crime; directly within the gang, and indirectly (in response to the gang's activities) within the city. Whatever the most serious penalty mandated under the local laws is, he should suffer it. In California, that is death.

To track back to the OP, the consequences of carrying out that process do have to be carried out with care and adequate preparations made for predictable consequences. If Los Angeles does not prepare for a reaction to the execution they are deeply negligent. However the preparation should go much further than extra policing; the reasons for the decisions should be explained and broadcast over and over, in terms that leave no doubt in people's minds why this is being done, so that even those who disagree could tell you the official line. Sadly, despite the media time this gets, I doubt this will happen effectively.

sarongsong
2005-Dec-13, 12:48 AM
Well, at least the governor (http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/12/D8EF03400.html) has finally made a decision re clemency.
...Schwarzenegger wrote less than 12 hours before the execution. "Without an apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings, there can be no redemption...The facts do not justify overturning the jury's verdict or the decisions of the courts in this case."...

LurchGS
2005-Dec-13, 01:06 AM
I doubt there will be much in the way of rioting - there are no surprises here. Everybody has known for years that this was a likely outcome.

It's a matter of perception - Rodney King was perceived to have been beaten by the cops for no good reason. The press fed this impression by showing only a small clip of the video, and reporting virtually none of the preceeding events.

Theyr'e making no such effort )that I know of ( in this case. The long and the short of it is, it's not sensational enough.

There will undoubtedly be some protests, though - and so long as the press keeps their distance, all should be well.

(You may take my comments to indicate that I have small regard for the general group of journalists. Please let me take this moment to set you straight. You are entirely correct. As a rule, I place journalists somewhere on the evolutionary scale.. slightly below pond scum. But that's just me.)

Gillianren
2005-Dec-13, 02:56 AM
I heard on the news last night that the last CA governor to pardon a condemned prisoner was Ronald Reagan. I haven't looked up facts, but that's pretty surreal to me, given the political leanings of at least one governor since then.

Tim Thompson
2005-Dec-13, 03:20 AM
I don't see rioting as anything but another way of selling air time on news broadcasts. LurchGS has the right idea; RK was seen as some poor innocent slob who got beat up for nothing. I think the number of people who really think Tookie (Stanley "Tookie" Williams) is really innocent is really small. The arguements for clemency (which was denied today by the governator, as well as the state supreme court & federal circuit (district?) court) are based on the perception of redemption. The opponents of same say he is faking it. I wouldn't know, and can't say as I care all that much. I don't like capital punishment on general grounds, but if ever anybody actually deserved it, he seems to be high on that list.

When the Rodney King riots reached their peak, we could see the smoke in L.A. easily from JPL. The Director of JPL sent the employees home well before dark one day, in consideration of safety. No doubt the LAPD is prepared at some level for something, they can't be that irresponsible, but I think nothing much will happen. The story will go away. Besides, there's already another execution set for January; who it is I can't recall, but I heard about it this morning, and I'm sure his case will make news too.

Don't worry about it. I'm not.

LurchGS
2005-Dec-13, 05:45 AM
When the Rodney King riots reached their peak, we could see the smoke in L.A. easily from JPL. The Director of JPL sent the employees home well before dark one day, in consideration of safety. No doubt the LAPD is prepared at some level for something, they can't be that irresponsible, but I think nothing much will happen. The story will go away. Besides, there's already another execution set for January; who it is I can't recall, but I heard about it this morning, and I'm sure his case will make news too.

Don't worry about it. I'm not.

oh, I worry about it - I was visiting a friend in LA at the time of the RK riots.. her car ended up with several bullet holes in it, and we had to evacuate her apartment building when the one next door was torched.

Running to the police at the corner - while under fire from some jerkwad witha rifle was rather harrowing, though nobody was hurt in the slightest (in our group, of course). We were given a ride by the nice police guys to her boyfriend's place a couple miles away.

As I say, I'd worry about it - but I'd worry about my hair catching fire first.

Lianachan
2005-Dec-13, 12:19 PM
Wikipedia doesn't paint Tookie as a very nice character at all.

Wikipedia entry for Tookie Wiliams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Tookie_Williams)