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banquo's_bumble_puppy
2005-Dec-16, 05:03 PM
ugly coin?

http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/commemoratives/index.cfm?flash=yes&action=Franklin

one of them (the kite flying coin is nice)

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2005-Dec-16, 05:04 PM
it would have been nice if the US mint could have re-issued the Ben Franklin halves for a limited 2006 run...

Candy
2005-Dec-16, 05:51 PM
In fact, most people already know that he experimented with electricity, invented bifocals and wrote Poor Richard’s Almanack, the annual best-selling pamphlet with aphorisms like, "Early to bed, and early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise."
Is that spelled correctly? :think:

Wow, look at the "Don't tread on me snake". Why is he all cut up? I like the Join or Die comment. I may start using that.

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2005-Dec-16, 05:54 PM
isn't that the "don't tread on me" motto/symbol that one of your states has???

Candy
2005-Dec-16, 06:01 PM
isn't that the "don't tread on me" motto/symbol that one of your states has???
Yes, but I forget which one. My grandmother has the flag hanging in her breezeway. I don't think it is Indiana or North Dakota, though. She was born in ND and now lives in IN.

LurchGS
2005-Dec-16, 06:02 PM
nope - mottos: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0801718.html


there are some that are kinda close... but nothing close enough

Oh, as far as the coins are concerned - the bust of Franklin is ... odd. I think it's the eyes. The rest are fine

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2005-Dec-16, 06:07 PM
it is the eyes that look wrong to me as well...

Candy
2005-Dec-16, 06:09 PM
This is interesting... The 1st Navy Jack "Culpepper Flag" (http://www.usflag.org/history/gadsden.html) - It featured thirteen red and white stripes. Stretched across them was the rippling form of a rattlesnake, and the words, "DON'T TREAD ON ME"- a striking indication of the colonists' courage and fierce desire for independence.

Good to know. :)

Candy
2005-Dec-16, 06:11 PM
it is the eyes that look wrong to me as well...
Perhaps, he's had some good scotch.

farmerjumperdon
2005-Dec-16, 08:24 PM
isn't that the "don't tread on me" motto/symbol that one of your states has???

It's an old Navy motto. My dad had it tatooed on his arm. He served on the USS Wisconsin.

One Skunk Todd
2005-Dec-16, 08:31 PM
Is that spelled correctly? :think:

Wow, look at the "Don't tread on me snake". Why is he all cut up? I like the Join or Die comment. I may start using that.

More info on "Join or Die":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_cartoon

http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/scoop_article.asp?ai=10541&si=121

soylentgreen
2005-Dec-16, 08:58 PM
As a Ben Franklin enthusiast(I consider him-along with the short listers Abe Lincoln, John Chapman, Clara Barton and James Still-to be a quintessential American)the idea of the coins appeal to me greatly...the flag image is nice, but that portrait is a little spooky! It might have helped greatly to stick his spectacles on him.

I like the concept of the kite image, but unfortunately Ben looks like he's attempting to lasso a steer(with a kite!).

Nice to see, though. Greatly looking forward to Philly's year-long celebration for the old guy, I am.

01101001
2005-Dec-16, 10:30 PM
The USPS Franklin commemorative stamps (http://www.usps.com/communications/news/stamps/2006/images/06_benf4_400s.jpg) look a lot prettier.

(From USPS The 2006 Commemorative Stamp Program (http://www.usps.com/communications/news/stamps/2005/sr05_054.htm))

LurchGS
2005-Dec-16, 10:33 PM
It's an old Navy motto. My dad had it tatooed on his arm. He served on the USS Wisconsin.

ok, this is a really tiny nit to pick... but he served IN the USS Wisconsin. (it's so tiny a nit, most seafarers don't know it.)

The Supreme Canuck
2005-Dec-16, 11:20 PM
Hm. The stamps are very nice, but I have to say I dislike the coins. But then you'll be hard-pressed to find an American coin design that I do like.

paulie jay
2005-Dec-17, 02:01 AM
Wasn't Benjamin Franklin a notorious womaniser? I could thinnk of a much more interesting design...;)

Candy
2005-Dec-17, 04:58 AM
More info on "Join or Die":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_cartoon

http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/scoop_article.asp?ai=10541&si=121
For some reason, I don't remember the snake being in pieces. I occasionally stared at that flag for 30 + years. :doh:

Soylentgreen, good for you!

Paulie Jay, you so bad and good at the same time. ;)

Gillianren
2005-Dec-17, 11:23 PM
Wasn't Benjamin Franklin a notorious womaniser? I could thinnk of a much more interesting design...;)

What, pictures of his illegitimate children?

soylentgreen
2005-Dec-19, 01:16 AM
What, pictures of his illegitimate children?


Find any portrait of William Franklin, last Royal Governor of New Jersey...and there you go! Contrary to whatever simplified logic people apply to Ben and his son being on opposite sides of the independence issue, it was a very upsetting situtation for both of them.

A more interesting image would be Franklin and John Adams sharing living quarters while in France...the original "Odd Couple"!

I'm absolutely sure the old doctor is rolling over in his grave thanks to our embarrassing excuse for a president, who tonight is going to try to explain how he thinks our civil rights are not quite as guaranteed as we thought!

sarongsong
2005-Dec-19, 01:47 AM
Why didn't they use .999 silver (it is a commemmorative) and why isn't this info on the Mint's site?

(A) weigh 26.73 grams;

(B) have a diameter of 1.500 inches; and

(C) contain 90 percent silver and 10 percent copper. Library of Congress (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.R.3204.ENR:)

01101001
2005-Dec-19, 03:05 AM
Why didn't they use .999 silver (it is a commemmorative) and why isn't this info on the Mint's site?
Library of Congress (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.R.3204.ENR:)

.999 fine silver is for bullion coins, the one-ounce Silver Eagle, that is purchased mainly for the metal content and not the collector value of the design, rarity, and condition.

.900 silver is for commemoratives, and was the silver content of normal equivalent coins, like silver dollars, before the silver content was diluted in mass-circulation coins.

I'm pretty sure I saw on the US Mint site that bullion coins are not sold to consumers by the mint and must be purchased through distributors. The mint does sell special bullion coins, proofs, that are brought for their condition. If you're buying for the silver content, don't shop at the US Mint. If they don't mention the silver content, it's probably just good marketing to sell the .900-silver commemoratives to those who think they are getting better than they are.

Wolverine
2005-Dec-19, 03:35 AM
I'm absolutely sure the old doctor is rolling over in his grave thanks to our embarrassing excuse for a president, who tonight is going to try to explain how he thinks our civil rights are not quite as guaranteed as we thought!

http://www.bautforum.com/images/icons/icon4.gif soylentgreen, this forum is not a place for such political comments.

soylentgreen
2005-Dec-19, 05:45 AM
http://www.bautforum.com/images/icons/icon4.gif soylentgreen, this forum is not a place for such political comments.

but it's a place for this garbage, right...

courtesy of the Airline Passenger Who Made Threat Killed thread...

Mentally ill, eh? What can ya say about small calibre ammo, it cures what ails ya. I'm no believer in Eugenics, but if a 'tard's got enough brainpower to cause trouble, he's got enough brainpower to suffer the consequences.

Throw his body to the dogs.



I agree with you, Doodler.

So, admitting I don't like the president we're stuck with(and tying it to subject of this particular thread in a cogent manner) is inflammatory, but making fun of a man with a possible mental illness murdered on a plane is ok?

Some of the posters in this thread seemed to have a grasp of history, but not too much of one on Franklin, I guess. My comment was perfectly valid with any discussion of Dr Franklin.

I notice that when someone points out a public individual who may espouse thinking that's not in line with the general tack of the forum(people who question evolution, believe in pyramid power or sell anti-gravitational devices, as examples) no effort seems to be made to restrain the derogatory(or in some cases slanderous)comments that are usually attendant.

Believe me, if I made an inappropriate comment under the circumstances, I would be more than happy to apologize. It appears to me, however, to be a kind of gerrymandering with the already byzantine regulations on subject matter for the forum.

That thread on the passenger shot by the air marshal should have been closed by the fifth post(if you measure it against the touchy standards by which other threads have been closed). As it stands, that clearly offensive discussion continues. Why hasn't it been closed?

Is the idea of what's offensive limited strictly to politics or religion? This double standard thing truly bothers me.

Musashi
2005-Dec-19, 06:02 AM
It was inappropriate/inflammatory. Also inappropriate were the comments on the other thread, which also garnered some warnings (iirc).

As far as offense being limited to politics and religion, in a word, yes. In more words:


12. Politics & Religion

Due to the contentious nature of these subjects, forum participants are strongly advised to avoid discussing religious and political issues. Please don't begin or contribute to a topic that's merely going to incite or fuel a flame war.

However, the following exceptions apply:

A) Political impact upon space programs, exploration, and science.

B) Focused, polite discussion of concepts such as creationism and "intelligent design" which bear direct relevance to astronomy and science, for the purposes of conversing about and addressing misconceptions.

C) Focused, polite discussion of the difference between astronomy (including cosmology) and religion

Partisan political debate is unwelcome and should be undertaken elsewhere. The same applies to debates purely religious in nature. Likewise, proselytizing will not be allowed. In short, you are allowed to discuss politics and religion within a very limited scope where they affect space and space exploration, astronomy, and science. Nothing more. If you really really need to talk about these topics with someone, take it to email or to another bulletin board.

Wolverine
2005-Dec-19, 06:12 AM
So, admitting I don't like the president we're stuck with(and tying it to subject of this particular thread in a cogent manner) is inflammatory, but making fun of a man with a possible mental illness murdered on a plane is ok?
No, neither is ok. Doodler was reprimanded for his comments as well.


Some of the posters in this thread seemed to have a grasp of history, but not too much of one on Franklin, I guess. My comment was perfectly valid with any discussion of Dr Franklin.
If that were the case, I wouldn't have said anything.


I notice that when someone points out a public individual who may espouse thinking that's not in line with the general tack of the forum(people who question evolution, believe in pyramid power or sell anti-gravitational devices, as examples) no effort seems to be made to restrain the derogatory(or in some cases slanderous)comments that are usually attendant.
Example, please? If something's slipped through the cracks and requires the forum staff's attention, please alert us.


Believe me, if I made an inappropriate comment under the circumstances, I would be more than happy to apologize. It appears to me, however, to be a kind of gerrymandering with the already byzantine regulations on subject matter for the forum.
Actually it's quite simple. Musashi linked the rule section above concerning politics. Your comment crossed those guidelines.



That thread on the passenger shot by the air marshal should have been closed by the fifth post(if you measure it against the touchy standards by which other threads have been closed). As it stands, that clearly offensive discussion continues. Why hasn't it been closed?
There were several moderator interventions on the thread you mention. We're not out to entirely quell all speech, but rather strive to ensure folks remain within the forum guidelines.


Is the idea of what's offensive limited strictly to politics or religion? This double standard thing truly bothers me.
No, it's not. The rules enumerate rather specifically what's appropriate here and what isn't. I don't see the "double standard" you mention.

sarongsong
2005-Dec-19, 06:58 AM
.999 fine silver is for bullion coins... .900 silver is for commemoratives...Thanks---I seem to have the bullion form of this (http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/commemoratives/buffalo/index.cfm?action=buffalo_about) commemmorative. It's dated 2002, lacks "In God We Trust", and instead of "One Dollar", reads "1 OZ .999 FINE SILVER".
Interesting.

Candy
2005-Dec-19, 08:19 AM
Hey, I'm real, PM me or email me if you have a problem with me, soylentgreen, Don't make something that happens to more people than not (flying experiences) seem unreal. That irritates me. I'll listen to you. I may not agree with you, but I'll listen to you.

01101001
2005-Dec-19, 08:34 AM
Thanks---I seem to have the bullion form of this (http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/commemoratives/buffalo/index.cfm?action=buffalo_about) commemmorative. It's dated 2002, lacks "In God We Trust", and instead of "One Dollar", reads "1 OZ .999 FINE SILVER".
Interesting.

I think you don't have a coin from the US Mint. See US Mint: Tips On Identifying Genuine U.S. Coins (http://www.usmint.gov/consumer/index.cfm?action=Tips) and Replicas of U.S. Coins (http://www.usmint.gov/consumer/index.cfm?action=replicas)


Inscription "In God We Trust" appears near the upper portion of the coin. Replica’s inscription reads: ".999 Fine Silver".

Inscription "E Pluribus Unum" appears under the buffalo’s head. Replica does not have an inscription under the buffalo’s head.

sarongsong
2005-Dec-19, 09:12 AM
Curiouser and curiouser---mine must be a replica, then, but definitely not that one. I think I got it at the gift shop here (http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=588); will give them a call tomorrow and ask more about it.

The Supreme Canuck
2005-Dec-19, 02:43 PM
See, this is why I don't like American coins. You can end up with something from Liberia. In Canada, it's much simpler.

farmerjumperdon
2005-Dec-19, 03:54 PM
These are "created collectibles." There's a good rule of thumb in collecting: Real collectibles are things that were not intended to be collected at the time they were produced. Most stuff marketed as collectible when it is new rarely becomes worth collecting (which is to say holds it's "collectible" value over time).

Stamps (which I know fairly well) are a good example. The production of "collectibles" has pretty much made everything after WWII worthless. You can buy mint collections and use them for postage! The brokers sell them at BELOW face value because they are not even worth the time it takes to sort and package them. You can even buy plate numbered blocks and entire sheets of most issues at below face value.

ktesibios
2005-Dec-19, 04:44 PM
.999 silver is fine for a coin which is going to be kept in a protective case in a drawer and occasionally taken out for a look.

For a coin which is intended for circulation- commemorative or not- an alloy like coin silver (90% silver, 10% copper) is what you want. The copper alloy is what gives the coin sufficient hardness to circulate without being quickly battered and bent into unrecognizability.

sarongsong
2005-Dec-19, 10:52 PM
Yes, the State Museum confirms they buy from 'commemmorative mints' and assured me that the silver content is indeed as stated; my chief concern.
As for U.S. stamps, I'm always blown away at the endless issues presented when the USPS sends out its new glossy catalogs thruout the year. No wonder the rates keep rising!

Candy
2005-Dec-19, 11:18 PM
Yes, the State Museum confirms they buy from 'commemmorative mints' and assured me that the silver content is indeed as stated; my chief concern.
As for U.S. stamps, I'm always blown away at the endless issues presented when the USPS sends out its new glossy catalogs thruout the year. No wonder the rates keep rising!
Off-topic: You like the USPS, don't you, sarongsong? Put the card in right side up and to the left, will you? :lol:

sarongsong
2005-Dec-19, 11:31 PM
I'm calling 'Dog' in Hawaii to let him know one of his relatives (the only one who doesn't wear black leather) has skipped bail in Chicago!

01101001
2005-Dec-20, 12:51 AM
Yes, the State Museum confirms they buy from 'commemmorative mints' and assured me that the silver content is indeed as stated; my chief concern.

Silver is good stuff. I've got some one-ounce silver "rounds", walking Liberties if I recall correctly, that are still fun to have and hold, and pretty, too. I wish I had a million of 'em. Wait. That's 28 tonnes. OK. I guess 250 kilos of platinum would be easier on the floor joists. Please, Santa?

LurchGS
2005-Dec-20, 12:53 AM
tsk - that's what the garage is for. Save the floor in the house for luxurious furs and significan others

sarongsong
2005-Dec-20, 01:39 AM
Silver is good stuff...Quite agreed---it's ion is my avatar. Do you know the story of blue sludge, that so bugged early Nevada gold-miners? (here (http://www.territorial-enterprise.com/neeley1.htm), it's referred to as 'black stuff'.)

ktesibios
2005-Dec-20, 11:35 PM
The story of the "------ blue stuff" is even more amusing than what's on that Territorial Enterprise page. You can read the whole narrative in Dan DeQuille's The Big Bonanza, but here's the gist:

The early miners who discovered the Comstock not only didn't know what the "blue stuff" was, they actively hated it. It was dense enough to sink to the bottom of the rockers they were using to wash out the ore, covering up the mercury and interfering with the amalgamation of the gold. As DeQuille put it, they "damned [it] from the rising of the sun until the setting thereof".

They had noticed that as they worked up towards the head of Gold Canyon the gold they washed out became progressively lighter in color and density- so that it sold at a discount compared to purer dust- and that this was even more pronounced near the head of Six-Mile Canyon, but it apparently never occurred to them that the alloy might be silver.

The way in which its value was discovered was pretty coincidental. A miner who had worked the Comstock area for a few months brought back a sample of the "blue stuff" as a curiosity. In Grass Valley CA he gave it to a friend who was curious enough to get it assayed.

The assay came back at several thousand dollars to the ton. The "------ blue stuff" was nearly pure silver sulfide. The boom was on...

The Big Bonanza is still in print. I have a copy which I bought on a visit to Gold Hill and Virginia City a few years ago.

Edited to add: the tale of how Mark Twain adopted his pen name, as given on that page, contradicts what Twain himself had to say about it in Life On the Mississippi. His explanation was that he had smouched it from an old Mississippi River pilot, Isaiah Sellers, who had published occasional short pieces in the New Orleans papers under that name in the days when Sam Clemens was a river pilot.

sarongsong
2005-Dec-21, 12:44 AM
And mentioned here (http://www.nevadaobserver.com/Comstock%20Silver%20Lode%2001.htm) in de Quille's "A HISTORY OF THE COMSTOCK SILVER LODE & MINES". I first heard of it as blue sludge on a California's Gold (http://www.calgold.com/) episode, wherein the Comstock silver vein was said to be something like 8 miles long and as wide as 80 feet.

ktesibios
2005-Dec-21, 01:14 AM
And mentioned here (http://www.nevadaobserver.com/Comstock%20Silver%20Lode%2001.htm) in de Quille's "A HISTORY OF THE COMSTOCK SILVER LODE & MINES". I first heard of it as blue sludge on a California's Gold (http://www.calgold.com/) episode, wherein the Comstock silver vein was said to be something like 8 miles long and as wide as 80 feet.

That sounds about right. I don't know for sure about the length, but the main lode extended from north of Virginia City to the southern end of Gold Hill. It was an exceptionally wide lead; the technique of square-set timbering was invented at the Ophir mine in Virginia City to solve the problems caused by the width of the lead, which was so great that conventional post-and-cap timbering couldn't keep the ground up.

http://www.nevadahumanities.org/encyclopedia/sstimber.htm

If the history of the Comstock interests you, I highly recommend The Big Bonanza. The Mark Twain Bookstore in Virginia City does a mail-order business and they would surely have it. You could also contact the bookstore at the Gold Hill Hotel in Gold Hill, which is where I got my copy.

http://www.marktwainbooks.com/shop/
http://www.goldhillhotel.net