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Fr. Wayne
2005-Dec-18, 04:54 AM
I quote Carl Sagan to introduce my sceptical side: I'm very sceptical about any "scientific claims" concerning the age of our planet, the age of the Universe, and the useage of millions and billions. Where in the world did we ever get the notion that once you count to ten does it really matter how many more? Yes, there's a lot of world out there and I'd be the first to respond: "Well, what do you know? How about that? Yes that's something I ain't seen before." But then what? So don't let me stop you from counting alien species, alphabet secret societies, gigabits or megawatts, or treasury bills, or distinct ethnic groups if that's your thing. Math should be fun. But wouldn't it be wild if maybe the established herdsmen of our planet were always meant to be wrong? Otherwise what's the point of you or me? I do enjoy knowledge, don't get me wrong, but anything over ten? You can have it!

aurora
2005-Dec-18, 05:03 AM
I'll give you $11 for your house.

Fr. Wayne
2005-Dec-18, 05:13 AM
Make it ten, and it's a deal.

wayneee
2005-Dec-18, 05:20 AM
Actualy Carl Sagan never said" Billions and billions" it was realy Johnny Carson introducing Carl Sagan on the tonight show.
And what the heck are you talking about , your post is very unclear. Are you doubting the astronomers count of stars? Do you have trouble working with constants like infinity? Whats the Beef sir?

Wolverine
2005-Dec-18, 07:29 AM
I quote Carl Sagan to introduce my sceptical side: I'm very sceptical about any "scientific claims" concerning the age of our planet, the age of the Universe, and the useage of millions and billions.

Two questions:

Are you being serious or humorous? In either case, where's the conspiracy?

novaderrik
2005-Dec-18, 08:04 AM
well ,"billions and billions" just sounds better than "seventy fifty quazzillion".
and are you saying that you can't count once you run out of fingers to count with?
take off your shoes, and you can count to 20.. and i won't get into how you can count to 21...

Huevos Grandes
2005-Dec-18, 11:43 AM
So... megawatts of power, treasury bills, and distinct ethnic groups are the products of needless math that "confuses" all us dummies ? Foolish me- I always thought these were good things. Are you alleging some kind of "Conspiracy of the Stupid" ?

Your last statement is also confusing- anything over ten ? If it's a joke, you're going to have to elaborate. If it's a conspiracy, then I'd prefer to read listed facts disseminated before the zinger is revealed/debunked. Otherwise, maybe this thread ought to go somewhere else ?

Fr. Wayne
2005-Dec-18, 02:02 PM
I went to the Stones concert in Chicago and asked how much for a ticket- the guy said "A buck fifty" - That I can understand. He wasn't saying 150 pennies, my friend. That would be too many, but 1 and a half "c's" - no problem for me. I got in for a Buck. Pretty cool. I suppose that my conspiracy of billions and billions is how naturally people everywhere get into a pickle once they go past ten. Hey it's 7 days til Christmas, may you be blessed with a billion gifts from Santa, especially you Waynee...

jkmccrann
2005-Dec-18, 02:09 PM
I went to the Stones concert in Chicago and asked how much for a ticket- the guy said "A buck fifty" - That I can understand. He wasn't saying 150 pennies, my friend. That would be too many, but 1 and a half "c's" - no problem for me. I got in for a Buck. Pretty cool. I suppose that my conspiracy of billions and billions is how naturally people everywhere get into a pickle once they go past ten. Hey it's 7 days til Christmas, may you be blessed with a billion gifts from Santa, especially you Waynee...

Huh?

Maksutov
2005-Dec-18, 02:15 PM
I went to the Stones concert in Chicago and asked how much for a ticket- the guy said "A buck fifty" - That I can understand. He wasn't saying 150 pennies, my friend. That would be too many, but 1 and a half "c's" - no problem for me. I got in for a Buck. Pretty cool. I suppose that my conspiracy of billions and billions is how naturally people everywhere get into a pickle once they go past ten. Hey it's 7 days til Christmas, may you be blessed with a billion gifts from Santa, especially you Waynee...So, there it is.

It's a joke posting. Kind of like in Life of Bwian:


CENTURION: Well, it's a joke name, sir.
PILATE: I have a vewy gweat fwiend in Wome called "Lawgus Wichawdus"*
*It's a family board.

Fr. Wayne
2005-Dec-18, 06:02 PM
I do love conspiracies and humor as a method of communicating understanding them. Here are 5 facts which astronomy conspiracy can thrive on in '06:
1. As the EMP Threat Commission put it: The electromagnetic fields produced by weapons designed and deployed with the intent to produce EMP have a high likelihood of damaging electrical power systems, electronics, and information systems upon which American society depends. Their effects on dependent systems and infrastructures could be sufficient to qualify as catastrophic to the nation. Heaven forbid such a thought.

2.Math should be fun. Earth = 12.76 x 10+6 = 12,760,000 meters wide
(12.76 million meters)

Plant Cell = 12.76 x 10-6 = 0.00001276 meters wide
(12.76 millionths of a meter) a fact.

3. "WE DON'T know what we are talking about." That was Nobel laureate David Gross at the 23rd Solvay Conference in Physics in Brussels, Belgium, during his concluding remarks on Saturday. He was referring to string theory - go read what he has to say.

4. Newton's laws do not discount a Geocentric system. the current estimate of the amount of atomic material in the universe, according to Ozernoy's equation, will require an angular velocity of 3 to 7 x 10^-5 radians/second, which is how fast the universe would naturally rotate with that amount of matter within it. But what about dark matter?
5. Here we are, on the 100th anniversary of Einstein's celebrated theory (1905-2005), and two scientists from Australia report in the most prestigious science journal on the planet, Nature, that the speed of light is not constant - the bedrock of Einstein's theory of Relativity. How dare they....
To all the seniors and juniors at BAUT "A happy new year!" It should be an excellent one for us astronomy conspiracy. Do carry on.

Huevos Grandes
2005-Dec-18, 06:31 PM
I do love conspiracies and humor as a method of communicating understanding them. Here are 5 facts which astronomy conspiracy can thrive on in '06:
1. As the EMP Threat Commission put it: The electromagnetic fields produced by weapons designed and deployed with the intent to produce EMP have a high likelihood of damaging electrical power systems, electronics, and information systems upon which American society depends. Their effects on dependent systems and infrastructures could be sufficient to qualify as catastrophic to the nation. Heaven forbid such a thought.

2.Math should be fun. Earth = 12.76 x 10+6 = 12,760,000 meters wide
(12.76 million meters)

Plant Cell = 12.76 x 10-6 = 0.00001276 meters wide
(12.76 millionths of a meter) a fact.

3. "WE DON'T know what we are talking about." That was Nobel laureate David Gross at the 23rd Solvay Conference in Physics in Brussels, Belgium, during his concluding remarks on Saturday. He was referring to string theory - go read what he has to say.

4. Newton's laws do not discount a Geocentric system. the current estimate of the amount of atomic material in the universe, according to Ozernoy's equation, will require an angular velocity of 3 to 7 x 10^-5 radians/second, which is how fast the universe would naturally rotate with that amount of matter within it. But what about dark matter?
5. Here we are, on the 100th anniversary of Einstein's celebrated theory (1905-2005), and two scientists from Australia report in the most prestigious science journal on the planet, Nature, that the speed of light is not constant - the bedrock of Einstein's theory of Relativity. How dare they....
To all the seniors and juniors at BAUT "A happy new year!" It should be an excellent one for us astronomy conspiracy. Do carry on.

WHAT ?!? No mention of fluoridated water ??

Fr. Wayne
2005-Dec-18, 06:46 PM
What is astronomy have to do with flouridated water?
Here is a scientific law that I proscribe to: When the human mind, with its limited powers, attempts to mirror in itself the rich life of the world, of which it itself is only a small part, and which it can never hope to exhaust, it has every reason for proceeding economically.
But on second thought, maybe flouridated water and our ability for mathematical deductions may be related. Hmm? I will ponder this.

R.A.F.
2005-Dec-18, 07:07 PM
...wouldn't it be wild if maybe the established herdsmen of our planet were always meant to be wrong?

Well, Father...please explain the phrase "always meant to be wrong".

Fr. Wayne
2005-Dec-18, 08:20 PM
Is not one of the theories of science "falsification." If a theory or proposal can't be proven false it is useless? My term "herdsmen" was not meant to be derogatory. It was meant to remind us that there really is no such thing as "the little people" or "important people" when every person on this planet has the potential to change the world for the better. If we were meant to be wrong, it is because we strive to be right. It is no quark but a good thing that we are wrong about many things, how else can we learn and make actual progress? But somewhere between Planck and Mach there must be an answer (http://www.creatingthe21stcentury.org/Intro3d-Planck&Mach.html) which lifts science without losing faith in people and lifts people without losing faith in science.

Monique
2005-Dec-18, 09:54 PM
Hey!! Without math, I do not have income!!

Alasdhair
2005-Dec-18, 10:39 PM
4. Newton's laws do not discount a Geocentric system.

No, but the phases of Mercury and Venus pretty much rule it out.

Monique
2005-Dec-18, 10:50 PM
[snip]
2.Math should be fun.
[snip]
I like math :razz:

Fr. Wayne
2005-Dec-18, 10:57 PM
No, but the phases of Mercury and Venus pretty much rule it out.
O Oh Sounds like an argument is erupting. But before we go through the "more than ten" arguments please peruse this:
http://www.catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/science/kencole.htm
(sorry if address offends anyone) and then if you care to share what you mean by "pretty much rule it out." Does it mean that the gods have spoken?
Just a joke, Alasdhair, I do understand the point you are making.

wayneee
2005-Dec-19, 02:52 AM
O Oh Sounds like an argument is erupting. But before we go through the "more than ten" arguments please peruse this:
http://www.catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/science/kencole.htm
(sorry if address offends anyone) and then if you care to share what you mean by "pretty much rule it out." Does it mean that the gods have spoken?
Just a joke, Alasdhair, I do understand the point you are making.
:confused:

Wolverine
2005-Dec-19, 03:40 AM
This looks more suitable for BABBling than CT. Moved.

LurchGS
2005-Dec-19, 07:21 AM
I went to that web site..and found no valid explanation for the host's (Robert Sungenis) denial of the disproof of geocentricism. Just a bald statement "it's possible to construct a geocentric model where gravitational forces in the solar system would permit space craft navigation as we have seen demonstrated" (my paraphrase).

Sorry, the challenger (Ken Cole) wins by default. A) he was able to offer observable data B) used logic to predict the future C) the future he predicted was accurate. The challengee merely came back with "sorry, ain't so". No argument. No data. No proof. Heck,not even argument from authority.

what a waste of electrons

Fr. Wayne
2005-Dec-19, 07:37 PM
[QUOTE=LurchGS] Just a bald statement "it's possible to construct a geocentric model where gravitational forces in the solar system would permit space craft navigation as we have seen demonstrated" (my paraphrase)

Although I am unable to find your paraphrase, the key point of the Cole/Sungenis dialogue is that Newton's center of gravity for the universe need not be either the most massive body or any body at all, since the center of gravity between all the known mass of the Universe could not be
proved either way making the geocentric model a non-scientific (non-demonstratable) theory. There were a series of dialogues where Cole was quite logical and his opponent quite conceptual. Obviously you prefer logic.That's cool.

hhEb09'1
2005-Dec-19, 07:45 PM
Well, Father...please explain the phrase "always meant to be wrong".Here's another interpretation. In the thread What Is Science? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=35949), which is about a lecture by Richard Feynman, he is quoted as saying "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." Sounds similar.

Fr. Wayne
2005-Dec-19, 07:54 PM
Dear Wolverine. My sincere apologies for babbling on. You boys sure pull no punches. But do allow me humor as I slowly get up to speed. Do the phases of Mercury and Venus "Really" prove a point? I have no problem agreeing that the Sun is the most massive body locally and Newton's laws apply quite nicely but the rotation of the Universe is beyond my formulation yet and so I will continue to conspire at your discretion wherever you deem appropriate. Do have a Happy Holiday.

Fr. Wayne
2005-Dec-20, 01:56 AM
Here's another interpretation. In the thread What Is Science? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=35949), which is about a lecture by Richard Feynman, he is quoted as saying "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." Sounds similar.

That's a new one and very funny hhEb09'1 but experts do strive to be right and putting faith in another person who has made an obvious effort to know what he can about a particular subject is noble and good (I'm sure you would agree) ; But I have no better way to say it than once we get past 10 whatevers (ideas, variables in equations, etc.) we must assume that we were meant to be wrong. I only hope that experts will not be afraid of being wrong and that people who put faith in them adjust without losing respect for the woman/man or their efforts.

Fr. Wayne
2005-Dec-20, 04:13 AM
I'm still waiting for Mercury and Venus to absolve me? Besides I like Math.
BAUT has a place for arguing Geocentrism. That's what I meant by avoiding arguing things bigger than ten, a conspiracy of silence is inevitable at 11-
Thank Allah He didn't invent a base 5 system for numbers! We'd be arguing over who'd get the last beer in a 1,2,3,4,10,11 oops an 11 pack!

teri tait
2005-Dec-24, 04:27 PM
How about "googles and googles" since google is a mathematical value like millions, trillions, and teslas
;)

LurchGS
2005-Dec-25, 05:06 AM
'rotation of the universe'?

does it rotate? I know (from my reading) that it expands, but I've never heard of it rotating

HenrikOlsen
2005-Dec-25, 10:59 AM
How about "googles and googles" since google is a mathematical value like millions, trillions, and teslas
;)
The mathematical value is called googol(10100), not google.
Tesla isn't a mathematical value at all, it's the physical unit for flux density (or field intensity) for magnetic fields.

crosscountry
2005-Dec-25, 09:10 PM
Actualy Carl Sagan never said" Billions and billions" it was realy Johnny Carson introducing Carl Sagan on the tonight show.



I read that book too.

crosscountry
2005-Dec-25, 09:12 PM
I'm sorry I read this thread. :doh:

Fr. Wayne
2005-Dec-31, 04:41 PM
I'm sorry I started it.
But it was useful in that it gave me, just starting out, a feel for the BAUT dynamics. Maybe someday someone, not me- I'm not left or right brained enough- can categorize the ten types of people found in this thread.

Personally here is my humorous top ten types (please do not take offense)
THE INVESTIGATORS
ABDUCTEES
CONSPIRACY RESEARCHERS
ANCIENT ASTRONAUT ARCHAEOLOGISTS
EXTRATERRESTRIAL ARCHAEOLOGISTS
GURUS AND THEIR FOLLOWERS
PSYCHICS AND CHANNELERS
EARTHBOUND EXTRATERRESTRIALS
THE SKEPTICS
STUDENTS OF SCIENTIFIC METHOD

Have a happy New Year!

LurchGS
2006-Jan-01, 06:30 AM
I'm sorry I started it.
But it was useful in that it gave me, just starting out, a feel for the BAUT dynamics. Maybe someday someone, not me- I'm not left or right brained enough- can categorize the ten types of people found in this thread.

Personally here is my humorous top ten types (please do not take offense)
THE INVESTIGATORS
ABDUCTEES
CONSPIRACY RESEARCHERS
ANCIENT ASTRONAUT ARCHAEOLOGISTS
EXTRATERRESTRIAL ARCHAEOLOGISTS
GURUS AND THEIR FOLLOWERS
PSYCHICS AND CHANNELERS
EARTHBOUND EXTRATERRESTRIALS
THE SKEPTICS
STUDENTS OF SCIENTIFIC METHOD

Have a happy New Year!


you left out the most important one: The Figments of My Imagination

parallaxicality
2006-Jan-01, 07:46 PM
I like that. My world is full of "FOMIs". It's so FOMI I don't need bubble-bath.

jkmccrann
2006-Jan-03, 10:58 AM
I'm sorry I started it.
But it was useful in that it gave me, just starting out, a feel for the BAUT dynamics. Maybe someday someone, not me- I'm not left or right brained enough- can categorize the ten types of people found in this thread.

Personally here is my humorous top ten types (please do not take offense)
THE INVESTIGATORS
ABDUCTEES
CONSPIRACY RESEARCHERS
ANCIENT ASTRONAUT ARCHAEOLOGISTS
EXTRATERRESTRIAL ARCHAEOLOGISTS
GURUS AND THEIR FOLLOWERS
PSYCHICS AND CHANNELERS
EARTHBOUND EXTRATERRESTRIALS
THE SKEPTICS
STUDENTS OF SCIENTIFIC METHOD

Have a happy New Year!

Haven't seen to many `PSYCHICS AND CHANNELERS' on here myself, maybe I need to visit Conspiracy Theories once in a while.........

farmerjumperdon
2006-Jan-03, 05:39 PM
Haven't seen to many `PSYCHICS AND CHANNELERS' on here myself, maybe I need to visit Conspiracy Theories once in a while.........

There's this poster named Moonrock.

Fr. Wayne
2006-Jan-04, 02:43 AM
There's this poster named Moonrock.

Of course they are here. They are way-too shy. They should realize they are as valuable for input as our mathematicians. So don't pick on them.

Fr. Wayne
2006-Jan-27, 05:40 AM
I can't let Fr. Wayne have the last word. :silenced: I leave it to Rev. Bobby Denton from his Love Crusade in Wheeling, WV(a Kurt Vonnegut character):

p. 28-9 "You want to fly thru space?...You want speed?...G** told us what we had to do on this wonderful spaceship... They would have to make eleven thousand separate checks before they could be sure it (-Rumfoord's rocket) was ready to go: Is the valve open, is that valve closed, is that wire tight, is that tank full? - and on and on and on to ELEVEN THOUSAND (insert billions and billions here) things to check. Here on G**'s space ship, G** only gives us TEN things to check...You want to hear G** countdown?"
The Love Crusaders shouted back that they did.
"Ten!- " said Bobby Denton. "Do you covet...." (so on and so forth) Sirens of Titan 1959

Moderator: The moment anyone says I'm pushing religion do delete this post. However for the record I find SF humor at it's best when it makes everyone's opinion equally insignificant. I'm a hospital chaplain on double-beepers night duty so wacky I get one week every month. I call it PBS - Priest's Beeper Syndrome. Better yet. Lock this one down.

Fr. Wayne
2006-Jan-30, 11:19 PM
Oh yeah? Well you are wrong. I will get the last word..

$7,000,000,000,000 (£3.9trn) is all the UN needs to solve the world's problems. Do we have enough trees left on earth to make those many dollar bills? No. I told you everything over 10 will cause an argument.

Fr. Wayne
2006-Mar-08, 12:46 PM
No you don't Fr. Wayne. Re: Alan Shepherd's Moon Golf vs. the Russian distance record: http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?boardId=560228&articleId=3&func=6&channel=News+Member+Managed&filterRead=false&filterHidden=true&filterUnhidden=false

farmerjumperdon
2006-Mar-08, 01:26 PM
I think you need more sleep.

Fr. Wayne
2006-Mar-08, 01:48 PM
Lol http://www.well.com/~mick/insomnia/