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bigbluestar
2005-Dec-21, 03:45 PM
Well I was talking with my buddy yesterday and we were talking about stellar deaths. I was explaining to him how a star like ours would die. The eventual expansion of its shell. into a final gentle puff and there. Planetary nebula pretty picture for alien astronomers to look at with there kids.

He asked the mandatory question of how long before that happens I told him 5 billions years. But it accured to me thats not how much time we have though is it? So my question is. Has anyone worked how long before the suns surface area is bright enough to cause a runaway green house effect, or burn away our oceans, or cause unservivabla radiation conditions. Im sure it wont be 5 billion?????????

Hamlet
2005-Dec-21, 04:20 PM
You may want to have a look at the The Once & Future Sun (http://www-astronomy.mps.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Lectures/vistas97.html) site. Based on our current knowledge, the author attempts to build a timeline of events for the evolution of the Sun. According to his numbers we may start to have trouble within about a billion years.

Dragon Star
2005-Dec-21, 04:40 PM
In 3 billion years, the Sun will be hot enough to boil Earth’s oceans away, and that means good bye to life....

Metricyard
2005-Dec-21, 04:50 PM
In 3 billion years, the Sun will be hot enough to boil Earth’s oceans away, and that means good bye to life....


Now, now, don't be hasty. Let's look on the bright side.

When the oceans starts to boil, you could always get a huge tea bag and make the largest cup of tea in the world. Sure to make the Guinness book of records.

Dragon Star
2005-Dec-21, 05:05 PM
Now, now, don't be hasty. Let's look on the bright side.

When the oceans starts to boil, you could always get a huge tea bag and make the largest cup of tea in the world. Sure to make the Guinness book of records.


Now that's a good idea!


But honestly do you think we are going to be here beyond 1 billion years from now? I sure don't....So I don't think we really need to worry about it.

phunk
2005-Dec-21, 05:57 PM
If we're still around in some form in a billion years, we'll hopefully have a solution. A billion years is even enough time for us to move the planet to a wider orbit (using technology we already have).

Lance
2005-Dec-21, 06:00 PM
A billion years is even enough time for us to move the planet to a wider orbit (using technology we already have).
Yes, and it's coming up soon too...

World Jump Day (http://www.worldjumpday.org/)

phunk
2005-Dec-21, 06:29 PM
haha awesome. And I bet a lot of people think that will work too. Newton must be spinning in his grave.

Swift
2005-Dec-21, 06:33 PM
Yes, and it's coming up soon too...

World Jump Day (http://www.worldjumpday.org/)
Forget it. According to that website I have to be jumping at 6:39 AM. Heck, I'm barely awake at 6:39, let alone jumping. :naughty:

Lance
2005-Dec-21, 06:43 PM
Forget it. According to that website I have to be jumping at 6:39 AM. Heck, I'm barely awake at 6:39, let alone jumping. :naughty:
I don't think it adjusts for DST which would be in effect in July. If I pick US Central Time it tells me I need to jump at 5:39 but if I pick -5, which we are in the summer, it tells me 6:39.

You might want to double check.

phunk
2005-Dec-21, 07:13 PM
Yeah you better double check out you'll ruin the whole thing!

In the real world though, we obey newton's laws, so I won't be getting up early that day.

Lance
2005-Dec-21, 07:18 PM
Yeah you better double check out you'll ruin the whole thing!

In the real world though, we obey newton's laws, so I won't be getting up early that day.
Yeah, but who's talking about the real world? I'm talking about the internet; home of World Jump Day and GLP (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/bbs/). :eek:

Dragon Star
2005-Dec-21, 07:25 PM
I will laugh when this Jump Day sets off the Yellowstone Volcano....:razz: :D

Lance
2005-Dec-21, 07:30 PM
I will laugh when this Jump Day sets off the Yellowstone Volcano....:razz: :D
ROTFLMBO!!!

It'll probably initiate the Atlantic Tsunami too.

I may have to go post the appropriate warnings at GLP. That'll get 'em spun up.

RussT
2005-Dec-21, 10:11 PM
I will laugh when this Jump Day sets off the Yellowstone Volcano....:razz: :D

Well, that's if we survive the next one, which is due any time now:eek: :eek:

Dragon Star
2005-Dec-21, 11:59 PM
Something is going to happen in the near future as far as natural disasters go, I just have a feeling....:think: Wonder what it is going to be next...

Argos
2005-Dec-22, 01:18 PM
The world jump day would deserve a thread of its own. Thatīs great! :)

Dragon Star
2005-Dec-23, 04:17 PM
The world jump day would deserve a thread of its own. Thatīs great! :)

Do you all want one? I will start it if your interested...

Relmuis
2005-Dec-23, 04:26 PM
Perhaps it would be best if World Jump Day were not observed until all ramifications have been carefully considered. The results may be harmful instead of beneficial.

As regards the evolution of the Sun: one way to temporarily cope with it would be to surround the Earth with an orbiting cloud of spherical mirrors. This might also help to counteract the Greenhouse Effect.

Eventually it may become necessary to move Earth from its present orbit, but the mirros would give us time to develop methods for doing so.

Dragon Star
2005-Dec-23, 04:36 PM
Perhaps it would be best if World Jump Day were not observed until all ramifications have been carefully considered. The results may be harmful instead of beneficial.

As regards the evolution of the Sun: one way to temporarily cope with it would be to surround the Earth with an orbiting cloud of spherical mirrors. This might also help to counteract the Greenhouse Effect.

Eventually it may become necessary to move Earth from its present orbit, but the mirros would give us time to develop methods for doing so.

Well, in one Billion years, I doubt that it will be much of a problem to move earth into an extended orbit, but again I doubt we will be here that long.

phunk
2005-Dec-23, 04:58 PM
I read an interesting idea for moving the earth a while back, using asteroids. Using the same techniques we use now to boost probes with a gravitational slingshot effect, you send an asteroid back and forth between the orbits of earth and another planet, maybe jupiter, and transfer momentum from the other planet to earth. It would take millions of years but we have a billion to figure it out.

The only technology needed is a way to divert an asteroid, which we need to figure out anyway if we plan on being around in a billion years.

Dragon Star
2005-Dec-23, 05:14 PM
I read an interesting idea for moving the earth a while back, using asteroids. Using the same techniques we use now to boost probes with a gravitational slingshot effect, you send an asteroid back and forth between the orbits of earth and another planet, maybe jupiter, and transfer momentum from the other planet to earth. It would take millions of years but we have a billion to figure it out.

The only technology needed is a way to divert an asteroid, which we need to figure out anyway if we plan on being around in a billion years.

Yea, I read that last week...I see it as we should just find a new home, one that is a bit more stable and predictable, because this one is just so prone to natural disasters.:think:

Planetwatcher
2005-Dec-24, 08:26 AM
Why not just move to Mars when it gets too hot here?
That should buy us another billion or so years.

FrostByte
2005-Dec-24, 03:39 PM
I think we shoudl start with working out the problems here on earth in our society first instead of going somewhere else. We've got T-minus one billion years left :).

Relmuis
2005-Dec-24, 04:15 PM
Why not just move to Mars when it gets too hot here?
That should buy us another billion or so years.

Wouldn't we want to preserve the scenery and historical places of Earth?

GDwarf
2005-Dec-25, 03:31 AM
I'll see if I can find the site, but I saw a webpage not all that long ago that mentioned various (scientifically sound) ways to destroy the Earth, he also had a page for random trivia. One of them was that if everyone on Earth could jump 10m up, and all weighed 100kg, and were all standing on the same spot, and all jumped at the same time, the Earth would shift 1/2 of the width of a Hydrogen atom, and then promptly move back to where it started from.

Planetwatcher
2005-Dec-25, 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Planetwatcher
Why not just move to Mars when it gets too hot here?
That should buy us another billion or so years.


Wouldn't we want to preserve the scenery and historical places of Earth?

Sure we'd want to, but how practical would it be. After all, if the Sun's heat is such to boil away the oceans, and incenerate the atmosphere what's going to left to save. The Great Redwood Forest would become the great Redwood forest fire. Mount Rushmore would become Mount dustmore. The Pyrmids would would become sandpiles. All the great monuments of the great cities would be dust.

Not to mention that before the oceans boiled away, the polar ice caps would melt putting pretty much the whole planet under water.
How are we going to save scenery and histroical places it it's all we can do is to save ourselves.

But we got a long time to figure all that out.

Relmuis
2005-Dec-25, 03:42 PM
How are we going to save scenery and historical places it it's all we can do is to save ourselves.


By surrounding the Earth with an orbiting cloud of mirrored balloons.

And later: by changing the orbit of the Earth aroud the Sun.

And still later: by surrounding the Earth with a number of artificial suns.

And eventually: by moving the Earth to an orbit around a more longeval star.

Ken G
2005-Dec-27, 11:03 AM
If we're really still around in a billion years, by then we'll have figured out how to transfer our consciousnesses into spaceships that move at close to the speed of light. Then forget the Earth, the galaxy will be our playground. If we're still around...

desertmonk
2005-Dec-27, 09:56 PM
http://ned.ucam.org/~sdh31/misc/destroy.html#methods

Is this it?

Dragon Star
2005-Dec-29, 02:23 AM
If we're really still around in a billion years, by then we'll have figured out how to transfer our consciousnesses into spaceships that move at close to the speed of light. Then forget the Earth, the galaxy will be our playground. If we're still around...

Ken, do you really think that traveling at near light speed is possible? What kind of fuel do you propose that could send a spaceship at this speed?

I personally think it is impossable...even if you combined matter and anti matter I don't think that it could get you going that fast, ever!

Ken G
2005-Dec-29, 03:27 AM
I think it would probably be easier than the transferring the consciousness part! But yeah, at this point I have no idea how either would be accomplished. The energy requirements are staggering, so we'd need ultra-low-mass payloads housing that consciousness, and we'd also need a way to avoid space junk at high speed. The ship would need to create a kind of wake in space that would guide small things aside, like dust suspended in the wake of a ship. But a billion years is a long time to figure it out...

Nereid
2005-Dec-30, 10:33 AM
Clearly this thread has moved far beyond the realm of Q&A; moved.