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EMAK
2005-Dec-24, 01:23 AM
I read Bob B's responses to the Fox hoax special; one that he did not answer is their claim that in the full sun, in the thin lunar atmosphere, the astronauts would receive a large dose of radiation. Their statement was, "if those suits would protect them from this radiation, then send them in to 3Mile Island to clean it up."
As a follow-up question, at the time of the lunar landing, what was the relative position of the moon to the sun? Was it between the earth and sun, or was the earth between the moon and the sun? Would this relative position have any impact on the amount of radiation referenced in the 1st question?

PhantomWolf
2005-Dec-24, 01:57 AM
The answer to this comes in understanding what sort of Radiation the sun emits. In general a lot of people think of Gamma type rays, especially X-Rays, (hence the "Long Island" comment) but in truth, the sun produces very little X-Ray radiation. It does produce a lot of UV and a small amount of particle radiation. UV is pretty easy to block, we can do that with protective plastics such as the Polycarbonate the astronauts helmets were made from. Particle Radiation (basically high speed protons and electrons) can be a little tricker, but they're still very easy to stop (a thick piece of plastic will do it,) and the suits they wore were enough to block most of it. The HP (Hoax Proponents) deliberately throw around the word "Radiation" and mix up the types because either they don't understand them themselves, or because they want it to sound vastly more dangerous that it really was. They do the same thing with the VA Belts.

Ken G
2005-Dec-24, 04:46 AM
But note that the one time that the Sun's "radiation" would indeed be dangerous to astronauts is during a strong solar flare. It is generally believed that had there been a strong solar flare while the astronauts were on the Moon, and if the high-energy particles (particularly protons I think) from the flare had been channeled toward the Moon by the magnetic field in the solar wind, the astronauts would have had only minutes to get to a shielded area (dig a hole, for example) or they would have been in grave danger. The bottom line is, yes, the astronauts faced many dangers, which the hoax proponents treat as reasons it would not have been done, when in fact they are merely reasons to admire the courage of the astronauts who took these risks for the pride of humanity. And note that if by "radiation" it is merely meant sunlight, then again the astronauts would have been in grave danger in full sunlight if the Sun were high in the sky, as the surface of the Moon would heat up to very dangerous levels. This is why the astronauts made sure the Sun was always low in the sky when they were on the Moon's surface.

PhantomWolf
2005-Dec-24, 06:43 AM
But note that the one time that the Sun's "radiation" would indeed be dangerous to astronauts is during a strong solar flare. It is generally believed that had there been a strong solar flare while the astronauts were on the Moon, and if the high-energy particles (particularly protons I think) from the flare had been channeled toward the Moon by the magnetic field in the solar wind, the astronauts would have had only minutes to get to a shielded area (dig a hole, for example) or they would have been in grave danger.

Actually particles from a CME take several days to reach us, time enough to have gotten the Crew into the LM and back up to the CSM. The plan for such an event was to try and get them back to Earth if possible, positin them behind the Moon if not, and if they were caught midway, turn the CSM so that the SM and heatshield was between the sun and the crew.


The bottom line is, yes, the astronauts faced many dangers, which the hoax proponents treat as reasons it would not have been done, when in fact they are merely reasons to admire the courage of the astronauts who took these risks for the pride of humanity.

Exactly, and this is why they were heroes.


And note that if by "radiation" it is merely meant sunlight, then again the astronauts would have been in grave danger in full sunlight if the Sun were high in the sky, as the surface of the Moon would heat up to very dangerous levels. This is why the astronauts made sure the Sun was always low in the sky when they were on the Moon's surface.

Well not entirely. Sunlight does carry with it UV and IR which can have an effect, but neither is disasterous. UV is easy to block and the IR which heats the surface of the moon merely makes the thermal equations a little trickier. The suits were designed to withstand temperatures over 250C so they could have survived on the surface even with the surrounding rock at that temperature. While they did land when the sun was low so things would be cooler for them, the other major reason was so that the shadows would be longer and the features easier to make out for landing. At noon the craters would have been much harder to see from above and made landing far more dangerous.

Ken G
2005-Dec-24, 03:16 PM
Good points, I overstated the dangers of a high Sun. It probably would have been trickier but possible, and note that things like the cameras and other equipment could not have functioned when the Moon's surface was heated by a high Sun. One minor correction to PhantomWolf's corrections: the heating power of the Sun comes primarily in the visible range where the energy is, not the infrared, though the heat given off by the Moon would certainly be infrared.

Denis12
2005-Dec-25, 02:39 AM
The position on the moon of apollo 11 was near the equator of the moon,and i have seen pictures when the sun was near zenit ,but stories are saying,that is not true. I think it is better for moonlandings to land on an area in the nearness of the poles of the moon,because there is always sun each day ,and the sun is always low on the horizon ,and maybe the uv radiation is a little bit lower. Correct me when i am wrong.

The_Radiation_Specialist
2005-Dec-25, 02:43 AM
aha...finally a subject of my specialty!!!

Dragon Star
2005-Dec-25, 02:52 AM
aha...finally a subject of my specialty!!!

Ok....and you have nothing to say about it?:eh:

PhantomWolf
2005-Dec-25, 08:15 AM
The position on the moon of apollo 11 was near the equator of the moon,and i have seen pictures when the sun was near zenit ,but stories are saying,that is not true. I think it is better for moonlandings to land on an area in the nearness of the poles of the moon,because there is always sun each day ,and the sun is always low on the horizon ,and maybe the uv radiation is a little bit lower. Correct me when i am wrong.
The landings were all near the eqautor because it was easier and requires much less fuel to get the craft into an orbit about the equator of the moon that about the poles. Having said this however, several of the new return missions are being planned for polar regions, most likely to the southern pole in search of possible sources of water ice.

As to having seen photos of the sun from Apollo 11 near the zenith, I'd like you to give the numbers for them.