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SkepticJ
2006-Jan-03, 10:44 PM
What kinds of movies, or at least events within a greater movie, would you like to see?
I'd like to see the antagonist(s) win.

I'd like to see the protagonist learn they have been fighting for the "wrong" side and change how they act.

I'd like to see a bloody knife fight in zero gravity.

I'd like to see a movie where the skeptic doesn't get killed by the monster, ghost, whatever that they're skeptical exists. Imagine a horror movie that is highly scary, and you find out at the end that it's all animatronics, illusion and real murder created by a person(or multiple people) who wanted to scare and kill people.

I'd like to see a movie where the aliens are truely alien, they don't give a jack about us, and their reason for attacking Earth is just for kicks-and they win, without any losses on their side.

I'd like to see a movie where an A.I. isn't an antagonist.

I'd like to see another movie where there are genetically engineered animals and people that aren't painted as a bad thing(Aeon Flux is the first I've seen)
Minority Report did have GE plants that moved pretty fast(for plants) though.

I'd like to see children's movie from Disney, or anyone else, that doesn't have a guy getting hit in the crotch by something.

GDwarf
2006-Jan-03, 10:53 PM
What kinds of movies, or at least events within a greater movie, would you like to see?
I'd like to see the antagonist(s) win.

I'd like to see the protagonist learn they have been fighting for the "wrong" side and change how they act.
Happens surprisingly often in Video Game RPGs.

In relation to one of your points, I'd like the sceptical person to actually figure out what the monster is, while the new age vampire hunter ignores him and goes to fight the mass murderer with a cross and some Garlic.

An evil Kingdom and a good Empire.

The cold, logical character actually be right.

SkepticJ
2006-Jan-03, 11:03 PM
The cold, logical character actually be right.

Spock comes pretty close to that. Has he ever been wrong? Or Data, before he got the emotion chip.

I'd like to see a martial arts movie where they don't toss their guns away and go hand-to-hand for NO REASON. Also, they'd do mixed martial arts(and "fighting dirty"), none of that ridgid "Do only this style" stuff. And they wouldn't make "ha!" noises when they're attacking each other.

Gillianren
2006-Jan-04, 12:04 AM
I'd like to see children's movie from Disney, or anyone else, that doesn't have a guy getting hit in the crotch by something.

Try watching pretty much any children's movie (especially Disney!) from before about 1980. Come to that, no one gets hit in the crotch in Narnia.

SirBlack
2006-Jan-04, 02:37 AM
I'd like to see a movie where the aliens are truely alien, they don't give a jack about us, and their reason for attacking Earth is just for kicks-and they win, without any losses on their side.

Well... would aliens obliterating Earth to make way for a hyperspace bypass be close enough? :D

Enzp
2006-Jan-04, 03:32 AM
You can watch the Outer Limits. The bad guys ALWAYS win on that show.

How about a Disney movie without the Bambi effect - the lead character's mother is killed early on.

On teh other hand, I enjoy movies like the Naked Gun and Airplane movies that take the cliche to new lofty levels and revel in it.

Ilya
2006-Jan-04, 04:37 AM
I'd like to see a movie where the skeptic doesn't get killed by the monster, ghost, whatever that they're skeptical exists. Imagine a horror movie that is highly scary, and you find out at the end that it's all animatronics, illusion and real murder created by a person(or multiple people) who wanted to scare and kill people.
Scooby-Doo. The original cartoons, anyway.

SolusLupus
2006-Jan-04, 04:39 AM
What kinds of movies, or at least events within a greater movie, would you like to see?
I'd like to see the antagonist(s) win.

I'd like to see the protagonist learn they have been fighting for the "wrong" side and change how they act.

I'd like to see a bloody knife fight in zero gravity.

I'd like to see a movie where the skeptic doesn't get killed by the monster, ghost, whatever that they're skeptical exists. Imagine a horror movie that is highly scary, and you find out at the end that it's all animatronics, illusion and real murder created by a person(or multiple people) who wanted to scare and kill people.

I'd like to see a movie where the aliens are truely alien, they don't give a jack about us, and their reason for attacking Earth is just for kicks-and they win, without any losses on their side.

I'd like to see a movie where an A.I. isn't an antagonist.

I'd like to see another movie where there are genetically engineered animals and people that aren't painted as a bad thing(Aeon Flux is the first I've seen)
Minority Report did have GE plants that moved pretty fast(for plants) though.

Huh, sounds exactly like my own movie, story, and "anime" (well, American Anime!) ideas.

You hit spot on all the things I do intend to do :)

SolusLupus
2006-Jan-04, 04:40 AM
Spock comes pretty close to that. Has he ever been wrong? Or Data, before he got the emotion chip.

I'd like to see a martial arts movie where they don't toss their guns away and go hand-to-hand for NO REASON. Also, they'd do mixed martial arts(and "fighting dirty"), none of that ridgid "Do only this style" stuff. And they wouldn't make "ha!" noises when they're attacking each other.

Hehe, indeed. No reason to give up a perfectly good gun.

Peteman
2006-Jan-04, 05:44 AM
A Joss Whedon production where there's a large, powerful, and well organized group of people that isn't A: Evil (Wolfram and Hart, The Alliance), B: Incompetent (The Watchers, The Alliance), C: Corrupt (The Alliance), or D: some combination of A, B, and C (the Alliance).

A main villain/hero that gets killed by a stray, unknown, random grunt.

The Blackops thing that doesn't actually go horribly, horribly wrong.

SkepticJ
2006-Jan-04, 09:54 AM
The Blackops thing that doesn't actually go horribly, horribly wrong.

Since playing the Splinter Cell games I've thought that this would make a great basis for a movie. If it weren't done dumb, like video game based movies are want to do. How many good ones are there? Mortal Kombat, the first one, is all that I can think of; and it's been probably nine years since I've seen it, so maybe it is bad and I just forgot.

SkepticJ
2006-Jan-04, 09:57 AM
Scooby-Doo. The original cartoons, anyway.

I don't remember much graphic murder in Scooby-Doo cartoons, but it's been years since I watched them: so the memories may have simply faded.

Tog
2006-Jan-04, 10:40 AM
There was a really good martial arts fight in a movie called Rapid Fire. It was near the end between Brandon Lee (Bruce Lee's son) and Al Leong (best known, sadly, as the guy that stole the snickers while waiting to ambush the cops in Die Hard.) Actually most of the fights in that one were pretty realistic martial arts based fights.

I'd like to see a movie that was run past the fact checkers for plot holes, tech errors, and similar before being released. (Minority Report, ST IV, and Jurassik Park 2 have some big holes, but there are countless others)

I'd like to see FEWER movies advertised where the soundtack artists get billing above the title. (Varsity Blues)

I'd like to see a movie NOT based on an old, tired premise. (Nearly anything from 2005)

I'd like to see a Disney (or other kid's) movie that reinforces the notion that lions/bears/snakes/moose, etc, are actually dangerous, and not to be played with in the wild.

I'd like to see the military at least TRY to fire an Anti-armor (TOW, Hellfire, HOT) missile at Godzilla, rather than use anti aircraft missiles like Sidewinders, and M-16's (and similar) that are too small to legally hunt deer with in my state.

I'd like to see James Bond get his PPK back. I'd also really like for the next few Bond movies to have fewer product placements than an NBA Finals game. Maybe they could even go back to story>action, like the early ones.

I'd like Steven Segal to just make fewer movies. Straight to video or not, they just take up space that could be better filled with documentaries on cheese. Oh wait...:D

I'd like for the stars (like Jennifer Garner in Elektra) who supposedly go through months of intensive training in martial arts for their rolls, to at least hold the props (sais) correctly on the posters.

novaderrik
2006-Jan-04, 11:44 AM
how avout a movie where the bad guy just kills the good guy without telling him his whole plan- like Scott Evil wanted Dr Evil to do in the first Austin Powers movie?
that would be good.

Matherly
2006-Jan-04, 03:02 PM
I'd like to see a movie where an A.I. isn't an antagonist.


How about... "A.I."?

Personally, I'd like to see a movie where the evil overlord follows the Evil Overlord List (http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html)

Swift
2006-Jan-04, 03:30 PM
how avout a movie where the bad guy just kills the good guy without telling him his whole plan- like Scott Evil wanted Dr Evil to do in the first Austin Powers movie?
that would be good.
How about a James Bond movie where not only does the Bad Guy not explain the whole plan to the captured Bond, but he does not set up some elaborate when to kill him, from which he can escape. Once you have captured him, put a gun to his head and just kill him.

ToSeek
2006-Jan-04, 03:46 PM
How about a James Bond movie where not only does the Bad Guy not explain the whole plan to the captured Bond, but he does not set up some elaborate when to kill him, from which he can escape. Once you have captured him, put a gun to his head and just kill him.

That would not be a James Bond movie - it would be like having one without any gorgeous women!

captain swoop
2006-Jan-04, 03:50 PM
Bond 'Do you expect me to talk?'
Goldfinger 'No I expect yout to Die'

But then Goldfinger wanders off leaving Bond alone and with enough time to escape from the deadly laser.

Peteman
2006-Jan-04, 03:55 PM
I don't remember much graphic murder in Scooby-Doo cartoons, but it's been years since I watched them: so the memories may have simply faded.

Maybe an alternate universe where the characters, instead of facing harmless scams for money, are actually dealing with real murderers, and Scooby Doo is actually a hallucination brought on by Shaggy's drug problem, which is related to the fact that he investigates bloody murders and creative psychopaths that make the guys of Law and Order: Criminal Intent cringe.

Doodler
2006-Jan-04, 04:49 PM
That would not be a James Bond movie - it would be like having one without any gorgeous women!

On that note, I present you A View to a Kill.

Moose
2006-Jan-04, 05:08 PM
That would not be a James Bond movie - it would be like having one without any gorgeous women!

Unless you count Duran Duran. *grins, ducks, then runs!*

Jakenorrish
2006-Jan-04, 05:18 PM
On that note, I present you A View to a Kill.

Yeah, I mean, that Tanya Roberts was SO ugly!!!

http://www.bondmovies.net/girls/tanya-roberts1.jpg

SeanF
2006-Jan-04, 05:39 PM
On that note, I present you A View to a Kill.

Ahem (http://www.jamesbondmm.co.uk/bond-villains/alison-doody.php).

Double ahem (http://www.jamesbondmm.co.uk/bond-girls/fiona-fullerton.php).

Swift
2006-Jan-04, 05:55 PM
Maybe an alternate universe where the characters, instead of facing harmless scams for money, are actually dealing with real murderers, and Scooby Doo is actually a hallucination brought on by Shaggy's drug problem, which is related to the fact that he investigates bloody murders and creative psychopaths that make the guys of Law and Order: Criminal Intent cringe.
Now I have this image of Assistant DA McCoy yelling at Shaggy and Scooby about getting proper search warrants and proper procedures for obtaining evidence. :eh:


:D

Doodler
2006-Jan-04, 06:07 PM
Or Scooby acting as a police dog for Jerry Orbach's character (don't remember the name offhand)...

Jakenorrish
2006-Jan-04, 06:28 PM
Ahem (http://www.jamesbondmm.co.uk/bond-villains/alison-doody.php).

Double ahem (http://www.jamesbondmm.co.uk/bond-girls/fiona-fullerton.php).

Time for a retraction Doodler!

ToSeek
2006-Jan-04, 06:51 PM
Double ahem (http://www.jamesbondmm.co.uk/bond-girls/fiona-fullerton.php).

I used to have such a crush on Fiona Fullerton in my younger days....

SeanF
2006-Jan-04, 07:43 PM
I used to have such a crush on Fiona Fullerton in my younger days....
Oh, I so want to make a joke regarding tickling and Tchaikovsky, but I'd probably get myself banned...

Gillianren
2006-Jan-04, 08:32 PM
Or Scooby acting as a police dog for Jerry Orbach's character (don't remember the name offhand)...

Lennie. He's dead. (On account of so's Jerry Orbach.)

And my Gods, I want to see Jack yelling at Shaggy and Scooby. It would almost be worth having to watch Shaggy and Scooby!

Doodler
2006-Jan-04, 08:56 PM
Time for a retraction Doodler!

Indeed... I had a vision of the most annoying Bond girl on record (Tanya Roberts) and Grace Jones (while not unattractive, she scares me on some levels...)

Edit: You tagged me on a technicality, I stand my ground about the Bond Girl (tm) for A View to a Kill. :p

SkepticJ
2006-Jan-05, 02:50 AM
How about... "A.I."?

Ok. I guess I'll change the request: the A.I. isn't bad and the movie it's in is more fun to watch than rocks weathering.

SkepticJ
2006-Jan-05, 02:56 AM
Bond 'Do you expect me to talk?'
Goldfinger 'No I expect yout to Die'

But then Goldfinger wanders off leaving Bond alone and with enough time to escape from the deadly laser.

Watch it again, that's not what happens. Bond talks his way out of it.

Bond meets one of the children he's fathered. There must be at least close to a hundred; maybe even into the low thousands.

Gullible Jones
2006-Jan-05, 02:58 AM
How about a movie where the protagonists are assisted by a multitude of unlikely events, coincidences, and dei ex machina, as usual... But actually realize that this isn't realistic, and start to wonder if they're doing the right thing.

("You know, this is way too easy. Are you sure we're not getting some assistance from the supposed bad guys? Are the white-hats who employed us who we think they are, or do the black-hats have them on puppet strings? Have we been duped?")

Alternatively, something a bit more nightmarish: the protagonists, harried by an endless series of seemingly impossible setbacks, begin to realize by slow measures that the very fabric of reality is rigged specifically against them. And when I say "seemingly impossible", I mean it. Stuff like:
- Simple equipment failing to work, or exploding a la Trek consoles when it has nothing in it that could possibly blow up.
- Ordinary, unarmored, human bad guys taking multiple bullets without any effect at all.
- Bullets from bad guys missing by ten feet or more, and yet producing the exact same results as if taken full in the chest.
- Minor wounds (in perfectly healthy people) continuing to bleed long after they should have stopped.
The general idea here being that there is no way the characters' troubles could be attributed to plain bad luck, but that no one outside the group of main characters seems to notice at all, and reality in general seems to be holding together except in these few instances.

(Of course, the obvious answer in both is "It's a computer simulation." But I'm thinking, what if it's not? What if stuff like that is happening and it's verifiably real, and in flagrant violation of the way the universe works?)

Anyway, away from the strange stuff...

- A James Bond movie where Bond runs out of bullets at a realistic rate.

("You were always an ammo-hog, Bond; and now, with the cheats turned off, it will be your DOOM!")

- In similar vein, a movie where Bond does some actual spying, and keeps his pistol cleverly hidden.

- Why are serial killers always perverts with big knives? Why don't we see any Raskolnikov-esque types in the movies? That would definitely make for a more interesting plot.

(This sort of killer has popped up in reality - there was, for example, a middle-aged fellow who went after convicted rapists.)

- Why not a vampire movie where the Pope turns out to be a vampire? Whoops... So much for the holy water.

- Why can't the annoying comic relief get killed off by the baddies early on? Just imagine what this could have done to Voyager...

Villain: "And to prove that I'm no good, I shall kill your annoying idiot over there."

*Villain phasers Neelix*

Janeway: "All the sudden, I'm that much more willing to work for you."

- Maybe someone in an action movie should get killed by a bullet in the shoulder. That would demolish a very common and very cliched scientific error.

- Similarly, it would be an interesting development if a protagonist's attempt to KO someone by bonking them over the head resulted in said person's death, as per reality. The hero could very suddenly end up on the bad side of the local police.

Gemini
2006-Jan-05, 04:06 AM
Watch it again, that's not what happens. Bond talks his way out of it.

Bond meets one of the children he's fathered. There must be at least close to a hundred; maybe even into the low thousands.

I've always wandered about that.

Same with Quagmire and Capt. JT Kirk

Damburger
2006-Jan-05, 04:28 AM
Most of the stuff mentioned here has actually been done occasionally. The problem is that it hasn't all been done in a single film.

Gillianren
2006-Jan-05, 05:01 AM
- In similar vein, a movie where Bond does some actual spying, and keeps his pistol cleverly hidden.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. James Bond is a lousy spy. A good spy wouldn't introduce himself all the time.

SolusLupus
2006-Jan-05, 05:53 AM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. James Bond is a lousy spy. A good spy wouldn't introduce himself all the time.

A good spy would also make up some pseudonyms and not use the same name all the time.

A good spy wouldn't need as many explosions in the end of the movie, too, but that's an issue of debate.

Ricimer
2006-Jan-05, 08:57 AM
that knocked out guard wakes up in a minute or two, instead of minutes after the character has already left the area.

"mooks" or "extras" that get shot, and don't die immediately, but still manage to hit alarms, scream, fire a gun, etc, when shot by a typical pistol.

Big Bad evil guys that like chucking grenades into elevators occupied by the heroes...

BBEG's who use superglue on their electronic locks to really slow down re-wiring of crucial circuits.

Vital information that's uber super secret, kept on a server not connected to a network (MI did this for instance...though that was really over elaborate in it's own way).

Really good motives given to the big bad evil empire other than the top guy's desire for power. E.g. some of the motives implied in Serentity and the Alliances desire to merely bring peace, though by conformity (good idea, nice motives, alluring philosophy...but troubling as well).

A good book to read for the above, btw, is "Banewreaker". The "villain" is merely a demi-god that wants to be left alone and un-persecuted by his older demi-god brother. He is, however, very active in trying to stop a group of "heroes" from fulfilling the prophecy that heralds his downfall (he compares that to a declaration of war, especially when he hadn't done anything to anybody for generations). Why does he live in a dark overcast country? Can't stand the sun after a nasty fight with his brother (who tried to cook him with the sun). Why a desolate mountain area...can you think of a better place for a fortress, or area where normal human interests of "nice land, it's mine" are averted? Why does he have swarms of half-mad and handicapped people serve his fortress? He wishes to give the downtrodden, like him, a place to belong. Why doesn't he heal them? He sees beauty in them as they are, and they refuse anyway. Etc, etc. Really good motives behind it all, and told entirely from the "villains" point of view in standard fantasy.

But...I'd like to see a movie with motives like that for the bad guy, so you don't know exactly who to cheer for.

Tog
2006-Jan-05, 10:18 AM
...
But...I'd like to see a movie with motives like that for the bad guy, so you don't know exactly who to cheer for.

The Osterman Weekend with Rutger Hauer. I had to watch it three times before I even knew who the 'bad guys' were. :o

mid
2006-Jan-05, 10:58 AM
I thought Gary Oldman's "Terrorist" in Air Force One did a pretty good job of making making me believe he felt his actions were justified. Better than Harrison Ford's President did, anyway.

Bond tried doing actual spying in the Timothy Dalton ones. Unfortunately, nobody bothered going to see him, so it was back to blowing things up in a tuxedo.

Tog
2006-Jan-05, 11:15 AM
I put Dalton's first movie as Bond (Living Daylights) up with the better ones. It had a plot, and actual spy stuff.

His second one (Licence to Kill) I rank as one of the worst.

Same with Pierce Brosnan. Godleneye was good, but th others just seemed forced and clumsy.

Oh, and I'd put Denise Richards up against Tanya Roberts for worst Bond Girl ever.

Certassar
2006-Jan-05, 04:17 PM
I'd like a movie where:

- The criminal mastermind is NOT the best martial arts expert of the evil gang.

- The criminal mastermind can be killed as easily (or easier) as his trained, armoured, ex-marine goons.

- Computers actually run Windows or OSX, and they do NOT show a "fast-forward" view of the data while transferring it to a disk.

- Computer monitors that don't make typewriter/printer sounds, as messages are written out.

Moose
2006-Jan-05, 04:50 PM
I'd like a movie where:

- The criminal mastermind is NOT the best martial arts expert of the evil gang.

- The criminal mastermind can be killed as easily (or easier) as his trained, armoured, ex-marine goons.

- Computers actually run Windows or OSX, and they do NOT show a "fast-forward" view of the data while transferring it to a disk.

- Computer monitors that don't make typewriter/printer sounds, as messages are written out.

Robocop. ;) "Thank you. *blam!*"

Romanus
2006-Jan-05, 05:03 PM
I'd like to see a movie (or story, whatever) that deals with the psychological ramifications of interstellar colonization. I mean, imagine landing on a planet light-years away on a one-way trip: you know that you'll never go home, and that *this* has to become home, and you have no idea what to expect, that you have to live off the land on a world that may be entirely hostile, and that you have to live with the possibility that you and all your fellow colonists may die or be killed, rendering the entire mission pointless. How would people cope with that kind of stress, unique in human history? That would keep me up at night.

I've recently wondered about what it would be like if there really were an interstellar war with another alien race, that humanity were losing. What would it be like on the home front? What kind of hard decisions would have to be made by the military, and by regular Joes and Janes all over the planet, knowing that annihilation was imminent? I actually had a dream along these lines once, and it was one of the most frightening of my life.

Peteman
2006-Jan-05, 05:38 PM
I've always wandered about that.

Same with Quagmire and Capt. JT Kirk

While the advance of birth control injections (and the fact that not all species are genetically compatible with humans without the use of significant medical resources) could prevent the latter, Quagmire already has been acknowledged as having large numbers of offspring.

ToSeek
2006-Jan-05, 09:07 PM
I've recently wondered about what it would be like if there really were an interstellar war with another alien race, that humanity were losing. What would it be like on the home front? What kind of hard decisions would have to be made by the military, and by regular Joes and Janes all over the planet, knowing that annihilation was imminent? I actually had a dream along these lines once, and it was one of the most frightening of my life.

There's an episode of Babylon Five that touches on that. The President of Earth gives a speech to those going out to fight the Minbari at the last line of defense (they've breached all the others) before they reach Earth. It's clear they're not expected to win.

Gullible Jones
2006-Jan-05, 09:56 PM
Ah, here's one:

A horror movie where the protagonists are smart enough to stick together, and whatever's after them is tough enough that it doesn't need to kill them one at a time.

Doodler
2006-Jan-05, 10:00 PM
There's an episode of Babylon Five that touches on that. The President of Earth gives a speech to those going out to fight the Minbari at the last line of defense (they've breached all the others) before they reach Earth. It's clear they're not expected to win.

Some of the narration talks about human colonies fighting to the last man and woman to cause as much damage as possible to the Minbari. Even succeeding to the point of making their drive towards Earth extremely exhausting and costly, despite their overwhelming technological edge.

Matherly
2006-Jan-05, 10:45 PM
There's an episode of Babylon Five that touches on that. The President of Earth gives a speech to those going out to fight the Minbari at the last line of defense (they've breached all the others) before they reach Earth. It's clear they're not expected to win.

That was from the "In the Beginning..." movie that was made for the move to TNT.

That said, "The Battle of the Line" was often mentioned as a major event in both Earth history and Captain Sinclair's personal history

On a side note, Christopher Franke's "Requim for the Line" theme was one of the coolest parts of the B5 score.

Enzp
2006-Jan-06, 04:58 AM
Romanus, hopefully those colonists who will never see home again have dealt with it by the time they get there, but it sounds like the premise for wagon train westerns. With a bit of Robinson Crusoe thrown in. Has promise.

How about a movie where the highly trained military forces of whomever actually hit something when they shoot? People whose sole purpose is to shoot things can't seem to do it. And in this day and age where we can send a cruise missle through your window without ruffling the curtains, it seems hard to believe that these high tech space ships can fill the sky with laser light shows and yet not hit anything.

And for that matter, how about a movie where lead bullets hitting glass windshields do not make bright sparks. We can worry about how spinning tires on sand makes screeching rubber sounds at a later time.

Ricimer
2006-Jan-06, 05:15 AM
I'd just settle for a military that, while it may not be able to hit anything, they certainly don't always hit that thin metal railing instead of their target.

SolusLupus
2006-Jan-06, 09:53 AM
How about a movie or a show where they don't make such a big deal about ballistic vests? Instead of seeing the person scream out in pain and fall down (or get thrown back by unrealistic guns physics), just to be revealed that he has a vest, usually when he pulls his shirt up...

Just show the guy has a vest early on, then move on with the movie/show. He gets shot a couple times, but the audience knows he has a vest. However, there might be the possibility that one of the bullets actually went through, and you don't find out until the surprise ending after he gets the "bad guy(s)". Oh, and also, maybe have a character use armor piercing ammunition instead of the same ol' FMJ/HP.

Swift
2006-Jan-06, 04:05 PM
How about a movie or a show where they don't make such a big deal about ballistic vests? Instead of seeing the person scream out in pain and fall down (or get thrown back by unrealistic guns physics), just to be revealed that he has a vest, usually when he pulls his shirt up...

Just show the guy has a vest early on, then move on with the movie/show. He gets shot a couple times, but the audience knows he has a vest. However, there might be the possibility that one of the bullets actually went through, and you don't find out until the surprise ending after he gets the "bad guy(s)". Oh, and also, maybe have a character use armor piercing ammunition instead of the same ol' FMJ/HP.
Along those lines, how many times have we seen it where the bad guys capture the good guy, shoot him a bunch of times in the chest to kill him, leave the body there, good guy wakes up in a few minutes, opens his jacket to show the vest, goes after bad guys. One shot to the head during the execution would fix this cliche. :rolleyes:

HenrikOlsen
2006-Jan-06, 04:37 PM
Even worse, when they've been saved by the vest, they invariably remove it before going after the bad guy instead of keeping it on when it's so obviously a good idea.

I'd like to see a movie where the protagonists halfway though realises that the Evil Overlord has internet access and has actually read the Evil Overlord List, thus making their work much harder. It will help to prevent the writer from relying on lazy solutions and heightens the tension when they know that capture means immediate death by headshots.

Kelfazin
2006-Jan-06, 06:28 PM
-An action movie where the Hero doesn't have an endless supply of ammunition/clips that magically appear in their back pocket.

-An action movie where the Bad Guy's guns are just as loud as the hero's gun (provided they are similar guns).

-A sitcom where the husband and wife actually seem to like each other and get along.

-Car chases where the car is actually undriveable due to the damage received when it jumps 20 feet in the air and lands bumper first on the payement and you can actually see (because it's in slow motion) the front end crumpling but is miraculously undamaged in the next scene.

-A car that doesn't just crank without starting when the protagonist is being chased.

-Or if it does just crank, a car that doesn't start at the last possible second

Alasdhair
2006-Jan-06, 06:52 PM
How about a movie where the highly trained military forces of whomever actually hit something when they shoot? People whose sole purpose is to shoot things can't seem to do it. And in this day and age where we can send a cruise missle through your window without ruffling the curtains, it seems hard to believe that these high tech space ships can fill the sky with laser light shows and yet not hit anything.

At first I thought Aliens was like that, when the marines opened fire on Newt (and missed), but subsequent viewings revealed that Hicks knocked the shooter's gun off-aim

MrClean
2006-Jan-06, 07:47 PM
I'd like to see a movie where the skeptic doesn't get killed by the monster, ghost, whatever that they're skeptical exists. Imagine a horror movie that is highly scary, and you find out at the end that it's all animatronics, illusion and real murder created by a person(or multiple people) who wanted to scare and kill people.


Thats pretty much 'The House on Haunted Hill', the Vincent Price version. He brings a groups of people to a supposedly haunted house so that his wife and her accompliss can try to kill him while he instead kills them and gets away with it by blaming the house, which turns out to be haunted anyway.

SirBlack
2006-Jan-06, 09:45 PM
One shot to the head during the execution would fix this cliche. :rolleyes:

To go along with this, in general I'd like to see people either aim for the areas that aren't obviously protected by armor or at least have some stray shots hit there.

Robocop always stands out in my mind in this regard. For all the tough metal body he has, the lower half of his face is completely exposed. Yet despite the bad guys spraying him with bullets over and over not a single one ever hits that obviously vulnerable area.

Doodler
2006-Jan-06, 09:51 PM
How about a movie or a show where they don't make such a big deal about ballistic vests? Instead of seeing the person scream out in pain and fall down (or get thrown back by unrealistic guns physics), just to be revealed that he has a vest, usually when he pulls his shirt up...

Just show the guy has a vest early on, then move on with the movie/show. He gets shot a couple times, but the audience knows he has a vest. However, there might be the possibility that one of the bullets actually went through, and you don't find out until the surprise ending after he gets the "bad guy(s)". Oh, and also, maybe have a character use armor piercing ammunition instead of the same ol' FMJ/HP.


Ripped from the headlines. A recent police chase actually involved an officer who died from excessive blood loss when a bullet fired from the car he was chasing missed the armor plate.

Sad stuff, but feasible for a "heroic" end.

On that topic, I think it was Lethal Weapon 3 that made a big deal about Teflon bullets making vests "optional" as was demonstrated by Riggs, when the plate was pierced like gauze. (I always wondered about the scene with the bulldozer blade...something for Mythbusters, maybe?)

SolusLupus
2006-Jan-06, 09:56 PM
I wonder about the Teflon bullets. From what I've heard on the subject by experts, teflon does not make penetrating armor easier, it mainly just makes the bullet straighter when going through windshields.

Gillianren
2006-Jan-06, 10:17 PM
I've been watching Due South the last few days, and while it's generally pretty good, they gave way to one egregious (and MythBusters-busted!) error: they blow up a car by shooting one little bullet into the gas tank.

SolusLupus
2006-Jan-06, 11:01 PM
Bah, Due South still rocks on all levels. It's funny and interesting :)

Watching a Mounty in drag is hilarious, for instance.

Gillianren
2006-Jan-07, 01:27 AM
Bah, Due South still rocks on all levels. It's funny and interesting :)

Watching a Mounty in drag is hilarious, for instance.

Actually, the main reason that bit bothered me so was that the rest of the show is so outstanding. I mean, how many shows, when doing the obligatory "Gift of the Magi" schtick, feature a character named William Sidney Porter? (And an O. Henry's Gift Shop, but the character name was the more subtle reference.)

Krel
2006-Jan-07, 02:17 AM
I wonder about the Teflon bullets. From what I've heard on the subject by experts, teflon does not make penetrating armor easier, it mainly just makes the bullet straighter when going through windshields.

What makes the bullets armor peircing is not the Teflon, although it's slippery properties do help. It is the metal that the bullets are made from, iron, steel, brass, ect.. The Teflon coating is to keep the hard metal bullets from stripping the rifling out of the barrel.

I want to see a .9mm bullet go through a three, to fve inch thick steel bulldozer blade. Try it with a .357, or .44 magnum, or even a .454 Casul. Anything under a .50 bmg is going to bounce off.

The vests that the Police wear are light weight, so they can move about easily, they are usually only rated to about a .9mm, 40s&w, or .45acp. A .357, or higher will punch right through them, which is why they have trauma plates that fit in a pocket over the heart area of the chest.

David.

hippietrekx
2006-Jan-07, 05:14 AM
How about a movie where Hero-Man (HM) dosen't win and dosen't get the girl?

Or where HM doesn't follow the correct trail on the first try and is five steps ahead of the bad guy?

What about HM being the bad guy, and we sympathize for him before having it revealed at the end that HM is all evil and stuff?

I'd also like to see HM do something heroic in the first five minutes then simply get killed. Then all of the underlings have to ban together and, like, ya know, do stuff to live or whatever.

Then there's the scenario where HM dosen't have the physique of a pro-body builder or such nonsense. Why can't skinny, little nerds ever be HMs? I happen to like skinny, little nerds...

So basically, I want HM to fail miserably. Just for a change of pace...

--hippie

SolusLupus
2006-Jan-07, 05:36 AM
What makes the bullets armor peircing is not the Teflon, although it's slippery properties do help. It is the metal that the bullets are made from, iron, steel, brass, ect.. The Teflon coating is to keep the hard metal bullets from stripping the rifling out of the barrel.

But from what I've heard, the purpose isn't penetrating vests better, it's going through windshields without losing trajectory. The "armor piercing" rounds I'm thinking of aren't using teflon, but a more solid core... if what I know is correct. I dunno, I mean, I could be wrong, I haven't really researched into the subject as well as I could have, but let's just say I practiced intellectual osmosis on the right people.


I want to see a .9mm bullet go through a three, to fve inch thick steel bulldozer blade. Try it with a .357, or .44 magnum, or even a .454 Casul. Anything under a .50 bmg is going to bounce off.

3 to 5 inches of steel? Yeah, definitely.


The vests that the Police wear are light weight, so they can move about easily, they are usually only rated to about a .9mm, 40s&w, or .45acp. A .357, or higher will punch right through them, which is why they have trauma plates that fit in a pocket over the heart area of the chest.

Yeap. Rifle rounds would go right through a light ballistic vest like a hot knife through butter.

That's another thing I want to see in a movie. Where the main character uses a ballistic vest and all that, but then a Bad Guy pulls up an assault rifle, and then the Main Hero decides to get the heck out of dodge (or at least duck).

SolusLupus
2006-Jan-07, 05:55 AM
Oh, as for "geeks"...

I'd like to see a geeky-looking guy as the main character that actually has rock-hard solid determination, and has Navy SEALS training...

Coupled with a guy with a naturally large build, that really IS a geek, and has very little knowledge of actual physical activities.

Gullible Jones
2006-Jan-07, 03:18 PM
How about a movie where Hero-Man (HM) dosen't win and dosen't get the girl?

Or where HM doesn't follow the correct trail on the first try and is five steps ahead of the bad guy?

What about HM being the bad guy, and we sympathize for him before having it revealed at the end that HM is all evil and stuff?

I'd also like to see HM do something heroic in the first five minutes then simply get killed. Then all of the underlings have to ban together and, like, ya know, do stuff to live or whatever.

Then there's the scenario where HM dosen't have the physique of a pro-body builder or such nonsense. Why can't skinny, little nerds ever be HMs? I happen to like skinny, little nerds...

So basically, I want HM to fail miserably. Just for a change of pace...

--hippie

All very good points.

Personally, I've always wondered why heroes must be dumb as bricks, with the singular exception of crappy Disney cartoons. Why not take a hint from Gordon Freeman?

Also, I must ask: why is the homosexual/bisexual/transgender character always the comic relief?

Tog
2006-Jan-07, 03:55 PM
Lead bullets are moulded to shape and are generally very soft. The velocity is limited to about 1500 feet per second. Anything faster will casue the lead to melt away in the barrel and have a huge effect on accuracy after a few shots. They will deform easily and do not penetrate well. A common mixture is 19 parts lead to 1 part tin, to harden them up. Another blend uses Linotype, a lead alloy that has a low melting point but is incredibly hard.

A jacked bullet uses a lead core which is pressed into a copper jacket. These are normally either hollow point (hole in the front) or soft point/spire point/round nose. These also deform easily, and out of small calibers like 5.56mm (as in an M-16) they will tumble on impact.

Full metal jacket rounds (FMJ) are copper plated lead. There is no exposed lead, and these will deform very little. These will also tumble on impact.

Armor Piercing (AP) rifle rounds are nomally a copper plated steel core. or a copper plated lead core with a steel insert. The purpose for the lead copper plating is to avoid damaging the riflings in the barrel, and to keep the lead from melting due to friction. These are mainly intended to penetrate light armor and body armor. Pistol rounds are too big around and travel too slowly to be of use in that role, but the teflon coatings will aid penetration through balistic fabrics.

We did some tests on a bit of 2 inch bullet resistant layered polycarbonate one night. Using standard round nose ammo, a 357 mag and 44 mag did not go through it. A 7.62 NATO round went right through it.


Back on topic: I'd like to see the hero look at the block of C-4 and rather than spend all but 1 seconds trying to figure out which wire to cut, he just pulls the balsting cap out of the block.

Someone falls from more than 10 feet reaches out with one hand to grab a railing and tears their shoulder out of socket.

TheGalaxyTrio
2006-Jan-07, 04:02 PM
Antagonist winning: It would have redeemed (almost) the movie "The Island". The clones get caught and broken up for parts and the world never finds out.

Aliens attacking: I wrote an outline for an SF series where UberAdvanced aliens at war with other UberAdvanced aliens have forcibly turned Australia (sorry, Aussies! :) ) into a strike base and supply depot. They don't give a crap about humanity as long as we don't try to meddle, and they even occasionally help out with natural disasters as training for their own troops. This has brought Earth to the attention of the Galaxy at large, and so other alien races come a calling, and as the series opens, Earth is starting to become something of a transportation hub for the local sector.

Undrivable car in car chase: Actually, Aliens did that, ironically, with the big armored vehicle. Ripley broke through the big door and did a jump, and you could hear the damage. Micheal Behin's character even says she is just grinding metal at that point. You might also count The Blues Brothers. The car fall apart at the end of the chase. It presumably only stayed together until that point because they were on a mission from God. :)

Running out of ammo: happens all the time on "24" to the point where you start wondering "why don't they carry more clips?"

My peeve because I just saw it in Mr. And Mrs. Smith: People who can stand in the middle of an open area and hold off an army of highly trained professional soldiers and never get a scratch. I mean, even comic books don't do stuff like that if there's no superpowers involved. One quiet sniper would have made that a much shorter movie.

SolusLupus
2006-Jan-07, 07:31 PM
We did some tests on a bit of 2 inch bullet resistant layered polycarbonate one night. Using standard round nose ammo, a 357 mag and 44 mag did not go through it. A 7.62 NATO round went right through it.

I never disagreed with any of this. But have you done tests using a Teflon coated pistol round vs. a normal pistol round? I'd be interested in the results.

Parrothead
2006-Jan-07, 08:06 PM
Actually, the main reason that bit bothered me so was that the rest of the show is so outstanding. I mean, how many shows, when doing the obligatory "Gift of the Magi" schtick, feature a character named William Sidney Porter? (And an O. Henry's Gift Shop, but the character name was the more subtle reference.)

It's been so long since I've seen Due South. Paul Gross, does a great job as an unstable actor/director in Slings & Arrows (http://www.showcase.ca/slingsandarrows/default.asp). :lol: I believe it has aired in the US.

vonmazur
2006-Jan-07, 09:10 PM
Bond 'Do you expect me to talk?'
Goldfinger 'No I expect yout to Die'

But then Goldfinger wanders off leaving Bond alone and with enough time to escape from the deadly laser.

Captain: Bond starts talking about "Operation Grand Slam", and after the usual banter, the Chinese have Goldfinger release him....Bond in this scene looked like he was going to lose it...(Lit and Fig...)

Dale in Ala

Gullible Jones
2006-Jan-08, 02:48 AM
What? In the book, Goldfinger just feels a sudden, miraculous pang of guilt and lets Bond live.

Tog
2006-Jan-08, 04:43 AM
I never disagreed with any of this. But have you done tests using a Teflon coated pistol round vs. a normal pistol round? I'd be interested in the results.

Not directly. I was at a range where a the guy next to me was using teflon rounds. When they hit the metal target frames, the bullets ripped apart, with fragments coming back at us in little jagged shards.

My dad ran an indoor pistol range for a few years an dmany of the patrons were local police and highway patrol officers. Another friend of his investigates offiver involved shootings. We used to get a lot of information on different types of bullets for law enforcement and person self defense use, as well as all manner of hunting rounds.

So, my knowledge of teflon rounds is based on the observation that they will not pass through the metal target frames, where some FMJ rounds have; not any specific kinds of tests. That said, the max velocity from a 357 mag is about 1700 fps, and thats a really 'hot' load. 5.56 mm rounds run about 3200 fps, and 7.62 mm are about 3000 fps.

Tog
2006-Jan-08, 05:02 AM
What? In the book, Goldfinger just feels a sudden, miraculous pang of guilt and lets Bond live.

I never read the book, but the way I recall the movie dialog was Bond said that more agents would come. Goldfinger said they would be too late to do anything. Bond says they know about Grand Slam. Goldfinger says that is a term Bond may have heard in passing that will mean nothing to him (which was true). As goldfinger walks out, one of the Chinese scientists talked in whispers to Goldfinger. A Chinese guy walks over to Bond, pulls out a pistol and shoots Bond with what is later shown to be a tranquilizer dart.

There was a role playing game based on the James Bond movies that came out around 1980. In it there were rules about how the hero agents could use the skill of persuasion to escape a trap, using "Hero points" if they need to. It gave this scene from Goldfinger as the example of this.

Gillianren
2006-Jan-08, 07:15 AM
It's been so long since I've seen Due South. Paul Gross, does a great job as an unstable actor/director in Slings & Arrows (http://www.showcase.ca/slingsandarrows/default.asp). :lol: I believe it has aired in the US.

I don't know, but my January splurge was season one of Due South on DVD.

Doodler
2006-Jan-08, 03:54 PM
Due South on DVD? Aw heck, time to go shopping. Only beef with it will be getting my mother to gimme back the danged thing so I can watch it. :p

darkhunter
2006-Jan-08, 06:10 PM
Or see either the Hero (TM) or Big Evil Bad Guy (TM) hide behind a part of the car (other than behind the engine block) and and take a round that went through the car? Sorry Hollyood, but a car will not stop a bullet unless it hits the engine block.

SolusLupus
2006-Jan-08, 09:05 PM
Or see either the Hero (TM) or Big Evil Bad Guy (TM) hide behind a part of the car (other than behind the engine block) and and take a round that went through the car? Sorry Hollyood, but a car will not stop a bullet unless it hits the engine block.

Depends on the round and where it hits. A rifle round would go right through a windshield and out the other end, but I doubt a .45 round would do the same. This isn't assuming it goes through the upholstery or other "organs" of the car.

Sure, the round might easily go through, but the trajectory would be changed greatly, I think, and also would have been slowed.

Exceptions for Teflon and Armor Piercing rounds (of course), and Hollowpoint rounds are far more likely to be stopped entirely.

Alasdhair
2006-Jan-08, 10:57 PM
Depends on the round and where it hits. A rifle round would go right through a windshield and out the other end, but I doubt a .45 round would do the same. This isn't assuming it goes through the upholstery or other "organs" of the car.

Sure, the round might easily go through, but the trajectory would be changed greatly, I think, and also would have been slowed.

Exceptions for Teflon and Armor Piercing rounds (of course), and Hollowpoint rounds are far more likely to be stopped entirely.

There's a great programme shown in the UK presented by an ex-Army chap name of Dick Strawbridge. In one edition they were attempting to build a DIY armoured car, and to demonstrate the problem they put a large can of yellow paint on the driver's seat of a hatchback, closed all the doors and then opened fire from about 20yards with pistols & sub-machine guns. Suffice to say yellow paint was liberally spattered about the interior of the vehicle.

Gillianren
2006-Jan-08, 11:38 PM
There's a great programme shown in the UK presented by an ex-Army chap name of Dick Strawbridge. In one edition they were attempting to build a DIY armoured car, and to demonstrate the problem they put a large can of yellow paint on the driver's seat of a hatchback, closed all the doors and then opened fire from about 20yards with pistols & sub-machine guns. Suffice to say yellow paint was liberally spattered about the interior of the vehicle.

Major Dick? I love Major Dick! He was so fabulous on what we 'Murrikuns called Junkyard Wars!

And, in fact, the MythBusters also tested hiding behind cars. Didn't work too well--it's a good thing they weren't testing it on themselves, really.

SolusLupus
2006-Jan-09, 12:34 AM
There's a great programme shown in the UK presented by an ex-Army chap name of Dick Strawbridge. In one edition they were attempting to build a DIY armoured car, and to demonstrate the problem they put a large can of yellow paint on the driver's seat of a hatchback, closed all the doors and then opened fire from about 20yards with pistols & sub-machine guns. Suffice to say yellow paint was liberally spattered about the interior of the vehicle.

What calibre, and were they FMJ rounds? Also, how many went in one side, and penetrated out the other side? I never said that it was hard to penetrate the car, just that two shields are better than one. When trying to hit someone on the other side of a vehicle, there would be two barriers, not just one. This isn't counting things like upholstery.

nomuse
2006-Jan-09, 02:27 AM
Me, I'd consider cars "soft" cover. But then, I was trained on military small arms.

I think you misremember the book. Bond told Goldfinger "I could be useful to you -- you can always kill me later." I love Goldfinger, mostly because the title character is on top of it almost all the way through. He thwarts Bond in almost every clash they have, leaving the poor British assasin stumbling around trying to catch his breath. Bond can't even figure out how to disarm the bomb (at least he can salve his ego knowing he managed to win against Oddjob).

Come to think, there's a similar film -- the under-rated Big Trouble in Little China. It is almost as if Jack is trying to play Snake Pliskin but the universe has too much sense to let him. He does get a lucky throw in near the end, though. And you do have to admire his foolish courage!

If you really enjoy those times where hard-headed reality collides with cliché, try a little Lawrence Watt-Evans. He's got one fantasy trilogy where the Evil Space Empire with their purple uniforms and metal epaulets prove annoyingly competent (every single clichéd attempt to escape by the heros is thwarted with monotonous simplicity. "Oh! The ventillation shafts are only one foot in diameter!")

HenrikOlsen
2006-Jan-10, 02:24 PM
Or see either the Hero (TM) or Big Evil Bad Guy (TM) hide behind a part of the car (other than behind the engine block) and and take a round that went through the car? Sorry Hollyood, but a car will not stop a bullet unless it hits the engine block.
Alien Nation

nomuse
2006-Jan-10, 07:13 PM
I do enjoy a little cliché reversal, but it has to be in the right context. If it's a Van Damme action flick and someone gets killed by a standard handgun passing through a car you feel cheated; the rest of the movie has set up an expectation that all clichés will be honoured. You'll especially feel cheated if it turns out to be a major plot point; who would have guessed the movie would play that one straight!

Doodler
2006-Jan-10, 10:48 PM
Alien Nation

Good flick, great series, though it kinda jumped the shark with Body and Soul. I think they did human/alien relationships a lot more intelligently than even Babylon 5.

Weird Dave
2006-Jan-14, 12:07 AM
I'd like to see The Doctor arrive too late to save the Earth from the Daleks, because they rudely decided to invade South Africa rather than London or Cardiff.

I'd like to see Godzilla arrive too late to save the Earth from the aliens' giant monster, because it rudely decided to rampage in South Africa rather than Japan. [Admission - I've never actually seen a proper Godzilla film, so I may be treating it unfairly].

I'd like to see the fugitive evade the Evil Government Conspiracy, only for us to learn that actually the government was in the right and the fugitive was in the wrong. [See The Dead Past, by Asimov, for a great example of this].

I'd like to see the look on Kirk's face when he discovers that although his new alien girl is beautifully female on the top half, her lower half is, well, alien.

I'd like to see the geeky male scientist refuse the charms of the heroine with the words, "Sorry, I already have a girlfriend." (Or even "Sorry, I already have a boyfriend.")

I'd like to see the beautiful female scientist, who refuses the hero's advances at the start of the film, refuse them at the end of the film (sometimes "no" really does mean "no", rather than "not until after we've saved each other's lives a few times").

I read a book once called Beyond the Sun, which wasn't much good except for its central concept. The characters find ancient alien writings that seem to lead them to the powerful super-weapon, more powerful than an entire star. The heroine's response is, "Don't be stupid. People don't just leave super-weapons just lying around for people to find. It must be a translation mistake." I'd like to see that idea embedded in a better story - perhaps the heros eventually find the weapon, but it's just a perfectly ordinary ship that has been exaggerated like an Urban Legend. Oh, and after thousands of years it's a bit rusty...

SolusLupus
2006-Jan-14, 12:33 AM
I would like to see more movies where there isn't an arbitrary love interest.

In some stories, it adds to the story, or even is the story in itself. For instance, Sin City wouldn't have been anything like it was with no love stories. It WAS a love story, after all.

But c'mon! It seems like there always has to be some arbitrary love interest thrown in at some time. Books made into movies do the same (Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, for instance), Even when there wasn't a love interest involved in that story.

HenrikOlsen
2006-Jan-14, 01:38 AM
I read a book once called Beyond the Sun, which wasn't much good except for its central concept. The characters find ancient alien writings that seem to lead them to the powerful super-weapon, more powerful than an entire star. The heroine's response is, "Don't be stupid. People don't just leave super-weapons just lying around for people to find. It must be a translation mistake." I'd like to see that idea embedded in a better story - perhaps the heros eventually find the weapon, but it's just a perfectly ordinary ship that has been exaggerated like an Urban Legend. Oh, and after thousands of years it's a bit rusty...
Reminds me of a Star Trek novel, where the newly found weapon has an inscription which isn't translated until it's too late.
It reads "Incredibly stupid weapon, do not use" and fires a very powerful beam that follows the curvature of the planets surface and hits the user in the back. :dance:

James_Digriz
2006-Jan-14, 02:31 AM
What kinds of movies, or at least events within a greater movie, would you like to see?


Leeloo Dallas mul-ti-pass.
Yeah.
Mul-ti-pass.
Yeah, multipass, she knows it's a multipass. Leeloo Dallas. This is my wife.
Mul-ti-pass.
We're newlyweds. Just met. You know how it is. We bumped into each other, sparks happen...
Mul-ti-pass.
Yes, she knows it's a multipass. Anyway, we're in love.

Great movie. One of my Top 10 of all time for sure.

Anyways I would like to see more realism like in Serentiy. Bloody fights and the good guys doing stuff like they do in Serenity and Firefly instead of how the good guys act in Star Trek. "Anybody else wanna negotiate?"


If you really enjoy those times where hard-headed reality collides with cliché, try a little Lawrence Watt-Evans. He's got one fantasy trilogy where the Evil Space Empire with their purple uniforms and metal epaulets prove annoyingly competent (every single clichéd attempt to escape by the heros is thwarted with monotonous simplicity. "Oh! The ventillation shafts are only one foot in diameter!")

Big Trouble in Little China is a great movie. Loved it. Do you remember the name of that Trilogy? Reminds me of the Top 100 things I would do if I were an Evil Overlord list. Just do a search for Evil Overlord list and that's the one.

SolusLupus
2006-Jan-14, 02:51 AM
Reminds me of a Star Trek novel, where the newly found weapon has an inscription which isn't translated until it's too late.
It reads "Incredibly stupid weapon, do not use" and fires a very powerful beam that follows the curvature of the planets surface and hits the user in the back. :dance:

If I had a weapon like that, I'd write, "Super Weapon of Doom" on it or something, and leave it in a poorly guarded installation. Then I'd act surprised when my enemy took it over, and beg them not to turn it on my planet. I'd also make it large enough to severely damage a large area. A really large area.

>: D

Gullible Jones
2006-Jan-14, 04:22 AM
ROFL, that's a great idea. What's the book called?

Expanding on that idea, how about a death ray backfiring on the villain, obliterating itself, him, and everything within a few kilometers?

"Why, oh why did I forget the damned heat sinks!"

Or better yet: the villain's big evil AI develops a conscience, and proves to be extremely dangerous when provoked.

HenrikOlsen
2006-Jan-14, 04:55 AM
Expanding on that idea, how about a death ray backfiring on the villain, obliterating itself, him, and everything within a few kilometers?
Larry Niven, Slaver Weapon, weapon had builtin AI which identified that the user wasn't authorised and self destructed. Story was used for an episode of the animated Star Trek, with almost no adaptation.

Gillianren
2006-Jan-14, 05:17 AM
It's in one of the Peter David TNG novels, though I cannot now remember which one. (It's pretty early, back when I still read TNG novels.)

(The stupid weapon: do not use weapon.)

Weird Dave
2006-Jan-14, 11:20 AM
Reminds me of a Star Trek novel, where the newly found weapon has an inscription which isn't translated until it's too late.
It reads "Incredibly stupid weapon, do not use" and fires a very powerful beam that follows the curvature of the planets surface and hits the user in the back. :dance:
Nice one!

SirBlack
2006-Jan-14, 08:25 PM
It's in one of the Peter David TNG novels, though I cannot now remember which one. (It's pretty early, back when I still read TNG novels.)

(The stupid weapon: do not use weapon.)

Strike Zone (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0671746472/qid=1137270305/sr=8-13/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i13_xgl14/002-2954124-4128842?n=507846&s=books&v=glance)

HenrikOlsen
2006-Jan-15, 09:35 AM
My source (http://bautforum.com/member.php?u=3902) suggested "A rock and a hard place", though he's not sure.

James_Digriz
2006-Jan-15, 07:16 PM
Larry Niven, Slaver Weapon, weapon had builtin AI which identified that the user wasn't authorised and self destructed. Story was used for an episode of the animated Star Trek, with almost no adaptation.

Actually it was the computer setting on the weapon more then an AI that was present in all settings of the weapon. The humans fired/used the different incarnations of the weapon several times. It was only when the Kzin continually queried the computer setting that the weapon realized they were not allies and killed them.

Gillianren
2006-Jan-15, 07:30 PM
My source (http://bautforum.com/member.php?u=3902) suggested "A rock and a hard place", though he's not sure.

I am--it's not. A Rock and a Hard Place--which I still have and can locate my copy of!--is Riker on a world being terraformed. I'm pretty sure it is, in fact, Strike Zone, though I can't find my copy of that.

SeanF
2006-Jan-15, 11:17 PM
I am--it's not. A Rock and a Hard Place--which I still have and can locate my copy of!--is Riker on a world being terraformed. I'm pretty sure it is, in fact, Strike Zone, though I can't find my copy of that.
It is Strike Zone. Page 232:


"Can you read the sign? What does it say?"

"It says something to the effect of, 'Remarkably stupid weapon. Do not use.'"

Riker stared at him. "You're joking."

"I was? How splendid," said Data.

Doodler
2006-Jan-16, 10:39 PM
I read a book once called Beyond the Sun, which wasn't much good except for its central concept. The characters find ancient alien writings that seem to lead them to the powerful super-weapon, more powerful than an entire star. The heroine's response is, "Don't be stupid. People don't just leave super-weapons just lying around for people to find. It must be a translation mistake." I'd like to see that idea embedded in a better story - perhaps the heros eventually find the weapon, but it's just a perfectly ordinary ship that has been exaggerated like an Urban Legend. Oh, and after thousands of years it's a bit rusty...

Timothy Zahn's Conqueror series had such a weapon. It was a powerful communications system who's radiation entered the ship through the weakly armored aft, and reflected around inside the heavily armored metallic hull, baking the crew. The system was buried under high security and dismantled, leaving the impression that the "test" was of the new superweapon that went horribly wrong, rather than a communications system that was poorly conceived.

When the lizards attacked, this weapon was supposed to be the "ultimate" response to their attacks. Little problem, though, the lizard's ships used ceramic armor that didn't reflect the radiation.

vonmazur
2006-Jan-16, 11:30 PM
How about an Alien Invasion flick, wherein, Astronomers and Military see them coming, and get the poorly worded ultimatum, but decide to put up a fight anyhow---(Pick a reason, ie: The Muslims promise to suicide bomb the Aliens with nukes.....etc...) The meeting of the Scientists and Politicians breaks up in no decision, account arguments, like; "If they have FTL, then what can we do to resist????? etc..

The Aliens land, climb out, fall into ranks, and load their percussion muskets, the local rednecks unlimber their guns from the pick-em up truck....War over, Miller time, but the countries of the world go nuts trying to be the first to get the FTL Tech and WW3 follows....

Dale in Ala

The Supreme Canuck
2006-Jan-17, 12:24 AM
Been done. Harry Turtledove's "The Road Not Taken." Great short story.

Only difference is that they have flintlocks, not percussion muskets.

Enzp
2006-Jan-17, 06:44 AM
I dimly recall a story - a short story I think - where a guy is on a planet stuck. in a hostile jungle. The alien wildlife was chsing him as their next meal. He had the high tech disintegrator pistol that just silently made whatever you aimed it at vanish. Unlike Star Trek, it vaporized anything in its path, including the soil. It would not selectively off the bad guy and leave everything else alone.

Unfortunately, the point was that the gun made no noise, so the wildlife never associated it with any negatives. he could aim it at them but they never saw it as a threat until they were vapor. The guy winds up running for his ship spinning around vaporizing a wide swath all around him. This of course made his path more difficult because he was creating craters with his ray.

He lamented that next time they would add sound effects to the gun.

I remember it seeming plausible at the time, if a bit exagerrated. Super high tech weapon works great but winds up not being effective.

weatherc
2006-Jan-17, 02:18 PM
I dimly recall a story - a short story I think - where a guy is on a planet stuck. in a hostile jungle. The alien wildlife was chsing him as their next meal. He had the high tech disintegrator pistol that just silently made whatever you aimed it at vanish. Unlike Star Trek, it vaporized anything in its path, including the soil. It would not selectively off the bad guy and leave everything else alone...

...He lamented that next time they would add sound effects to the gun.
I think that story was simply called "The Big Gun." I can't remember the author. I remember that at the end of the story, a rescue team finds him months/years later, and he uses a bow and arrows to shoot the alien wildlife in place of the disintegrator gun, which he instead used as a hammer.

Swift
2006-Jan-17, 04:55 PM
I'd like to see The Doctor arrive too late to save the Earth from the Daleks, because they rudely decided to invade South Africa rather than London or Cardiff.

I'd like to see Godzilla arrive too late to save the Earth from the aliens' giant monster, because it rudeky decided to rampage in South Africa rather than Japan.
My, we have issues with South Africa. ;)

vonmazur
2006-Jan-17, 05:53 PM
Been done. Harry Turtledove's "The Road Not Taken." Great short story.

Only difference is that they have flintlocks, not percussion muskets.

I seem to remember something like that years ago, but Sci Fi hasn't been the same since Paul Linebarger died....

Dale in Ala

Kesh
2006-Jan-17, 06:28 PM
But from what I've heard, the purpose isn't penetrating vests better, it's going through windshields without losing trajectory. The "armor piercing" rounds I'm thinking of aren't using teflon, but a more solid core... if what I know is correct. I dunno, I mean, I could be wrong, I haven't really researched into the subject as well as I could have, but let's just say I practiced intellectual osmosis on the right people.

Depleted uranium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium#Incendiary_projectile_munitions) seems to fit the bill.

The Supreme Canuck
2006-Jan-17, 07:54 PM
Tungsten is better. It's even denser.

Krel
2006-Jan-18, 02:37 AM
I think that story was simply called "The Big Gun." I can't remember the author. I remember that at the end of the story, a rescue team finds him months/years later, and he uses a bow and arrows to shoot the alien wildlife in place of the disintegrator gun, which he instead used as a hammer.

The story is called "The Gun Without A Bang" by Robert Sheckly. The hero is checking some equipment on an uninhabited planet, and is attacked by the local version of a wolf. He easily fights them off, but finds out that he had also carved his rocket up in the process. The rescue party showed up months later looking for the gun, which was a prototype, not the poor guy, and are shocked at how he is using it. A very good story.

David.

weatherc
2006-Jan-18, 02:44 AM
The story is called "The Gun Without A Bang" by Robert Sheckly. The hero is checking some equipment on an uninhabited planet, and is attacked by the local version of a wolf. He easily fights them off, but finds out that he had also carved his rocket up in the process. The rescue party showed up months later looking for the gun, which was a prototype, not the poor guy, and are shocked at how he is using it. A very good story.

David.Ah, good, thanks for clearing that up! I read the story when I was in seventh grade (20 years ago), so I was fuzzy on the details.

You're also right when you say that it was a good story. If I can remember even a few details so many years later, it must have made an impression on me.

James_Digriz
2006-Jan-18, 02:46 AM
The story is called "The Gun Without A Bang" by Robert Sheckly.

Excellent writer. He has some of the funniest and cleverest Sci-Fi around. My favorite is the two guys who run out of food and set down next to an alien warehouse and try to find something they can eat by experiment and trying to puzzle out the labels and contents of the alien food boxes. Great stuff.

Tog
2006-Jan-18, 07:02 AM
Depleted uranium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium#Incendiary_projectile_munitions) seems to fit the bill.

I'm not sure that they would be useful in small arms though. The article says the smallest is 20mm. I think I recall hearing that 50 BMG rounds (12.7mm) could be used as well, but I may be wrong on that.

If a .45, 9mm or 7.62 mm round were made of all DU or Tungsten (except for a copper or teflon jacket) the rounds would either need to be made smaller (lengthwise) which would reduce the ballistic coefficeint resulting in a round which slows down faster and has a much shorter 'point blank range' than a stadard round; or the round would need to be quite a bit heavier, which means reduced initial velocity and excessive pressures in the chamber, which could result in the action blowig up when firing. This could be solved by using a slower buring gunpowder, but then there is a problem of barrel length, and accuracy.

Point Blank Range is a term used in discussing bullet trajectories. If a target is X units in diameter, the PBR is the maximum range where the gun can be aimed at the center of the target and still have a fired round hit within the target diameter. In most guns, the bullet leaves the barrel on a slightly upward path, crosses the sight line and travels above it for a time, then drops back below the sight line on it's way to the ground. There is no standard size for the target diameter for use with PBR, so if it mentioned, it must include the diameter to have any meaning.

Count Zero
2006-Jan-18, 08:30 AM
I'd like to see a movie (or story, whatever) that deals with the psychological ramifications of interstellar colonization. I mean, imagine landing on a planet light-years away on a one-way trip: you know that you'll never go home, and that *this* has to become home, and you have no idea what to expect, that you have to live off the land on a world that may be entirely hostile, and that you have to live with the possibility that you and all your fellow colonists may die or be killed, rendering the entire mission pointless. How would people cope with that kind of stress, unique in human history? That would keep me up at night.

This was the premise of the TV series Earth 2, starring Deborah Farentino & Clancy Brown. It only lasted one season in the mid-'90s, and is available on DVD. It was far from perfect, but I liked it and recommend it. It certainly had a different look than any SF before or since. Among other things, it was filmed almost entirely on location in the wilds of New Mexico. Check it out.

Weird Dave
2006-Jan-18, 09:05 AM
My, we have issues with South Africa. ;)
Badly spelled issues as well...

Alasdhair
2006-Jan-18, 12:50 PM
How about an Alien Invasion flick, wherein, Astronomers and Military see them coming, and get the poorly worded ultimatum, but decide to put up a fight anyhow---(Pick a reason, ie: The Muslims promise to suicide bomb the Aliens with nukes.....etc...) The meeting of the Scientists and Politicians breaks up in no decision, account arguments, like; "If they have FTL, then what can we do to resist????? etc..

The Aliens land, climb out, fall into ranks, and load their percussion muskets, the local rednecks unlimber their guns from the pick-em up truck....War over, Miller time, but the countries of the world go nuts trying to be the first to get the FTL Tech and WW3 follows....

Dale in Ala

Not to mention The Simpsons

"Their advanced civilisation is no match for our primitive weapons!"

"Run! He has a board with a nail in it!"

Tog
2006-Jan-18, 01:17 PM
In the mystery/crime genre

I'd like for the detective to state (as they so often do) that becuse the victim was hit on the right side of their head and they were facing the killer, the killer MUST be left handed; only to find the killer was a tennis player with a wicked back hand.

I'd like an automatic pistol to run out of ammo, have the slide lock back, as nearly all of them do, and NOT hear the 'click' of the hammer falling on an empty chamber.

One stated by a movie critic here: If the dog dies, it gets an extra half star. This was in response to movies like Dante's Peak, where there were numerous scenes of waiting in peril to save the dog.

A future movie, where it is not the government, police, or big business that have destroyed the way of life, but the lawyers and their frivilous law suits.

SolusLupus
2006-Jan-18, 01:45 PM
How about a world that's been overrun by unscrupulous doctors who have put a monopoly on medicine?

Peteman
2006-Jan-18, 03:38 PM
How bout one where the heroes see a brutal oppressive regime (either militarily or through resource distribution restrictions or something else) that claims itself for the greater good, and when the heroes take a good long look, they realize that the oppressive regime is actually right.

Doodler
2006-Jan-18, 08:04 PM
How bout one where the heroes see a brutal oppressive regime (either militarily or through resource distribution restrictions or something else) that claims itself for the greater good, and when the heroes take a good long look, they realize that the oppressive regime is actually right.

I kinda like World of Warcraft's twist on the old "Happily Ever After" concept. What happens when the demons are beaten and their orc army is suddenly left masterless and under the thumb of the "good" humans, dwarves and elves who defeated and enslaved them? What happens when you re-examine the circumstances that drove this horde into your world on a rampage and discover they were as much victims as you were, and that now all is said and done, they are now your victims in the aftermath?

For all the childishness associated with the players of World of Warcraft, the backstory is a gem that takes the old Tolkienian dichotomy of good and evil in a fantasy setting and turns it on its head. In a way, its much harder to say you're playing 'good' and 'evil' by picking either side, it really is all in how you choose to look at it.

Its a game, yes, but its a massive cliche buster that's much more shaded than I thought it was before I started into it.

Tog
2006-Jan-19, 07:27 AM
There was a pen and paper RPG I pleyed long ago that had one adventure set in a high mountain valley. All the residents were mind controlled to never want to leave, and the climate was controlled to be comfortable year round. The only people directly harmed were those who tried to oppose the king. A few people did want to overthrow the system and free the people from the mind control. If this should happen, the natural weather would roll in, and the people would have to leave the only home they'd even known, or die from exposure. I thought that was a nice twist on the evil overlord theme.

HenrikOlsen
2006-Jan-19, 12:17 PM
One stated by a movie critic here: If the dog dies, it gets an extra half star. This was in response to movies like Dante's Peak, where there were numerous scenes of waiting in peril to save the dog.
Have them leave the dog to die to save themselves in the first half, then spend the last half of the movie getting in danger because the middle, not youngest, child keeps refusing to as he's told because daddy's a jerk whose orders got Laddie killed. And stay away from the cheese, don't let the dog be found alive at the end.

X-COM
2006-Jan-19, 01:41 PM
Remember the meeting in "Life of Brain" where the resistance questions what good the Romans have done for them and they actually recall lot's of good things? Well, whatabout an movie where earth is already, since 50 or so years under alien occupation where people can ask the same question and get the same answer. The aliens has speeded up terraforming of Mars and handed their new citizens to their star empire the technology they need to colonize a whole bunch of worlds that would have taken us many thosuands of years to reach on our own. The protagonists would of course be members of a "resitance cell" trying their best to overthrow the alien invaders. In the end they finally realise that the aliens have been aware of their every move they have ever taken but choosed not to stomp them out since their actions never actually harmed anyone. Graffity and minor sabotage has simply been tolerated since the aliens wanted this harmeless resistance movement to exist to absorb discontent humans to prevent them from forming more malign and (for a time) undetected organisations.

HenrikOlsen
2006-Jan-19, 11:20 PM
"This Immortal" by Zelazny comes close, though I won't go into detail to not spoil it for those who haven't read it yet. Go do so.

Daniel H.
2006-Jan-21, 12:09 AM
Personally I'd like to see a villian win through virtue of superior numbers. So what if the small band of rebels are super-mortals that can take on hundreds of being at once. Evil Overlord sends half a million troops at them at once and they get wiped out simply from getting too tired to keep swatting the cannon fodder.

Count Zero
2006-Jan-21, 12:16 AM
Remember the Alamo!

Sorry, I got a little carried away, there...

James_Digriz
2006-Jan-21, 04:03 AM
Basically everything in the Evil Overlord List (http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html). Like when someone threatens you. On most shows they are left alone while on Serenity they are immiediatly shot.

Gillianren
2006-Jan-21, 06:16 AM
In the mystery/crime genre

I'd like for the detective to state (as they so often do) that becuse the victim was hit on the right side of their head and they were facing the killer, the killer MUST be left handed; only to find the killer was a tennis player with a wicked back hand.

Try Busman's Honeymoon, by Dorothy L. Sayers--they actually do mention this possibility. (The answer is different, but they do think about the backhand.)

Peteman
2006-Feb-02, 05:44 AM
Evil mastermind takes over body of powerful psychic enemy, and instead of becoming instantly proficient and more powerful than ever, he liquifies himself as he has absolutely no idea what he's doing.

Tog
2006-Feb-02, 09:51 AM
I thought Galaxy Quest did a great job at poking fun at some of the cliches in movies. Alan Rickman's deadpan delivery of lines like:
"Does the rolling help?", and "I see you managed to get you shirt ripped off again" are repeated often by the GF and I when it happens in other movies. I also really liked, "Let's get out of here before one of those things kills Guy". (the crewmember who was never given a last name.)

Togusa
2006-Feb-02, 07:52 PM
Why not a vampire movie where the Pope turns out to be a vampire? Whoops... So much for the holy water.
Not quite the same thing, but the anime series Trinity Blood (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=4874) has, as one of its main characters, a vampire working for a Vatican special operations team charged with defending humanity from vampires.

Yes, you read that correctly -- a vampire (and an ordained priest, no less!) in the service of the Catholic Church who hunts and kills other vampires.

SolusLupus
2006-Feb-02, 08:25 PM
Not quite the same thing, but the anime series Trinity Blood (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=4874) has, as one of its main characters, a vampire working for a Vatican special operations team charged with defending humanity from vampires.

Yes, you read that correctly -- a vampire (and an ordained priest, no less!) in the service of the Catholic Church who hunts and kills other vampires.

Sounds like Hellsing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellsing

Togusa
2006-Feb-02, 09:38 PM
Sounds like Hellsing
Those who have seen both Hellsing and Trinity Blood have noted some similarities between the two series despite their very different settings (Hellsing is set in modern-day England, whereas Trinity Blood is set [at least initially AFAIK] in a post-Apocalyptic Europe); others have noted parallels between TB's main protagonist Abel Nightroad (the aforementioned Vatican-serving vampire) and Trigun's Vash the Stampede, in that both Abel and Vash seem to be lovable fools and pacifists on first appearance, but ultimately prove to be deadly (each in their own way) when pushed to the limit.

I have seen a few episodes of Hellsing, but I've yet to see Trinity Blood -- I may do so when TB comes out here in the US, though.:)

SolusLupus
2006-Feb-02, 09:51 PM
I saw Hellsing from start to finish. Cool series, that. Haven't read the manga, though.

Gillianren
2006-Feb-03, 08:27 PM
I thought Galaxy Quest did a great job at poking fun at some of the cliches in movies. Alan Rickman's deadpan delivery of lines like:
"Does the rolling help?", and "I see you managed to get you shirt ripped off again" are repeated often by the GF and I when it happens in other movies. I also really liked, "Let's get out of here before one of those things kills Guy". (the crewmember who was never given a last name.)

Fleegman. It's in the opening credits of the Galaxy Quest: TNG series that they show at the end of the movie.

Weird Dave
2006-Mar-13, 12:05 AM
Scene: Mad Scientist's Lab
The hero has convinced the Mad Scientist that his genetically engineered monster/germ was in fact a bad idea.
Mad Scientist: "But I only vanted to serve humanity! Vhat have I done?"
Hero: "I need to know what genetic enhancements you made, so that we can defeat it together."
The Mad Scientist goes to his computer, and makes it display page after page of raw base sequence.
Computer: "ACTGGTCAGTGACCCGTGACAACGTTTGACAACGTGTGTACAT..."

In movieland, this continues
Hero [After reading the gene sequence for a few seconds]: "Why of course! The beast is vulnerable to anisotetrazine, flame, and lots of bullets! The world is saved!"

In my version
Hero [After staring at the incomprehensible string of letters for a few seconds]: "Do I look like a freakin' ribosome?"

Weird Dave
2006-Mar-13, 12:18 AM
Scene: Control room of the Evil Computer
The Evil Computer has captured our Heroes, and will surely kill them all. And yet is very politely answering their questions while it calculates the most painful method of execution.
Hero A [whispers to other Heroes]: "I have an idea. It might give us time to escape."
Hero A: "Computer, before I die, please answer me one question. What is the final decimal digit of the number pi?"
Evil Computer: "Computing"
All over the planet, vast processors spring to life. The Evil Computer's robotic factories start producing memory modules by the petabyte, in an endless race against mathematics.

In movieland, this continues
Hero A [whispers to other Heroes]: "Run!"
Our Heroes escape while the Evil Computer is distracted.

In my version
Hero A [whispers to other Heroes]: "Run!"
Our Heroes run while the Evil Computer is distracted. They get to the final corridor before all the doors slam shut.
Evil Computer: "The final decimal digit of the number pi is 4."
Heroes: "?????"

The Supreme Canuck
2006-Mar-13, 02:08 AM
Ha! These actually had me gasping for breath! Well done!

Moose
2006-Mar-13, 02:37 PM
In my version
Hero A [whispers to other Heroes]: "Run!"
Our Heroes run while the Evil Computer is distracted. They get to the final corridor before all the doors slam shut.
Evil Computer: "The final decimal digit of the number pi is 4."
Heroes: "?????"

And in my world:

Hero A [whispers to other Heroes]: "Run!"
Our Heroes take no more than two steps before all the doors slam shut.
Evil Computer: "Background process commenced. Doors will open when result is computed."
Heroes die of dehydration, starvation, boredom, old age, The Big Crunch, and/or entropy. Take your pick.

Swift
2006-Mar-13, 03:27 PM
Hero A: "Computer, before I die, please answer me one question. What is the final decimal digit of the number pi?"
Evil Computer: "What a stupid question. Die now"
Heros are killed.

Weird Dave
2006-Mar-13, 08:43 PM
Hero A: "Computer, before I die, please answer me one question. What is the final decimal digit of the number pi?"
Evil Computer: "What a stupid question. Die now"
Heros are killed.
:clap:

darkhunter
2006-Mar-14, 12:07 AM
Hero A: "Computer, before I die, please answer me one question. What is the final decimal digit of the number pi?"
Evil Computer:3.14................42

The Supreme Canuck
2006-Mar-14, 12:12 AM
Hero A: Computer, before I -- ARRGH!

Hero A dies.

Daniel H.
2006-Mar-14, 04:02 AM
Here's one I thought of recently:

The hero's burst through the door of the mad scientist's lab, rushing to stop him before he can activate his doomsday weapon. Upon arrival, they find the villian not waiting for them with generic mindless subordinates to stall them while he finishes his plan, but instead is slumped over in his chair having died days ago from a heart attack caused by age/lifestyle.

darkhunter
2006-Mar-14, 05:19 AM
After unraveling a series of clues (of a nature to lead any reasonable person to conclude the Evil Guy is an idiot), Our Hero bursts into the Evil Guy's secret fortress to find....absolutely nothing.

Evil Guy, having cleverly hidden cameras (transmitting on encrypted frequency agile burst transmissions at psuedo-random times--e.i. as close to undetectable as humanly possible) either:

a: detonated the hidden thermonuclear device, vaporizing Our Hero.

b: releases weoponized biological organisms, causeing our hero to become the vector in spreading the Evil Disease that is really at the heart of Evil Guy's plan.

In other words--Evil Guy left the clues to lead Our Hero into a nice little trap