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DukePaul
2006-Jan-11, 01:42 AM
I'm just wondering what is going to be called attractive or cutting-edge in the body adornment or "look-at-me" art in the near future. There have been plenty of science fiction novels that describe what may be on the way such as moving tattoos or implants. I saw a small news clip about a clothing designer who incorporated circuitry in her designs so that a group of similarly clad people lets say at a club and in close contact, the attire would interact. The designs were crude but the idea behind it may bear fruit. There was another novel I remember where a static charge suspended smoke over the body to barely reveal what lies beneath. Todays tattoo will probably be considered rather primitive compared to what may be just around the corner.

Vaelroth
2006-Jan-11, 01:49 AM
3d body art. Metal implanted in the skin in order to give it 3d ridges and/or silicone implants such as the horns that Enigma is sporting nowadays.

Enzp
2006-Jan-11, 09:27 AM
I think stuff like that is cyclical. I think once EVERYONE has tatoos all over, some folks will want to look like themselves and it will fall from favor. They will dare to be different by not getting one. Although the backwards baseball cap thing has lingered far longer than it should have. I think people will tire of them as they realize that, gee, Garfield was cute for a while, but after looking at him on my shoulder for a few years, maybe enough is enough.

After a while it just looks like everyone has this blue-green STUFF all over them. And My stepson saw what a 20 year old tatoo looks like on his father and decided he didn't need one.

I am surprised that henna body art never caught on. It is like a tatoo that wears off after a few days.

We tend to cycle between very artificial styles and naturalistic styles. Such things as the Goth look and the buckles and safety pins through the nose things have faded. Tatoos will too. (Pun intended.)

Argos
2006-Jan-11, 12:05 PM
Todays tattoo will probably be considered rather primitive compared to what may be just around the corner.

I think tatoos are primitive by definition. Any form of body ornament is reminiscent of the primitive stages of mankindīs development, IMO. And the fact that criminals are (or used to be) the main adepts to these practices is enough to keep me as far as possible from such things.

eburacum45
2006-Jan-11, 02:12 PM
On the contrary, pierceings and tattoos might become wearable computer interfaces in the near or midrange future. Rather than having direct neural interfacing which might be invasive and psychologically disturbing, wearable computers might be confined to the outside of our bodies in tattoos and earrings-noserings-eyebrow rings.
An earring could handle incoming voice traffic, lip or throat piercings could hold microphones;
eyebrow piercings could hold optical projectors which send graphical interface imagery direcly onto the retina.
Tattoos could also link together to form circuitry, as well as allowing a keyboard interface on the skin of one arm (or elsewhere if you wish).
Later still perhaps tattoos could come into fashion once again, as an alternative method of communication as well as artwork in its own right.

http://www.orionsarm.com/clades/Scrabo_Prior.html

HenrikOlsen
2006-Jan-11, 07:43 PM
I think tatoos are primitive by definition. Any form of body ornament is reminiscent of the primitive stages of mankind´s development, IMO. And the fact that criminals are (or used to be) the main adepts to these practices is enough to keep me as far as possible from such things.
That depends a lot on the country and culture.

The idea that it's mainly criminals who gets tattooed is one I think is very wrong for most countries, though media does tend to emphasise the stereotype that criminals are tattooed, which is likely to help that impression.
Most forms of body modification is a way to modify youself to better fit your self image, to express your self. This includes cosmetic surgery just as much as tattoos.
I should probably link to my tattoo (http://www.iaeste.dk/~henrik/projects/tattoo.html) as a counterexample for the idea about criminals.


After a while it just looks like everyone has this blue-green STUFF all over them. And My stepson saw what a 20 year old tatoo looks like on his father and decided he didn't need one.
.
We tend to cycle between very artificial styles and naturalistic styles. Such things as the Goth look and the buckles and safety pins through the nose things have faded.Tatoos will too. (Pun intended.)
All tattoos blur a little as time goes by so how the tattoo looks after 20 years depends a lot on the skill of the tattoo artist and the techniques used.
As for the cycling popularity, I don't really think tattoos are more popular (with the exception of teenage girls), instead I think it's a matter of more awareness of them, you notice them more.

Gillianren
2006-Jan-11, 08:00 PM
I am surprised that henna body art never caught on. It is like a tatoo that wears off after a few days.

Depends on your social circle. They're hugely popular on the ren faire circuit. (But I've never had the cash to blow on one. Say what you like about tatoos; they do last a while for the money you spend.)

Argos
2006-Jan-11, 08:31 PM
That depends a lot on the country and culture.

The idea that it's mainly criminals who gets tattooed is one I think is very wrong for most countries, though media does tend to emphasise the stereotype that criminals are tattooed, which is likely to help that impression.
Most forms of body modification is a way to modify youself to better fit your self image, to express your self. This includes cosmetic surgery just as much as tattoos.
I should probably link to my tattoo (http://www.iaeste.dk/~henrik/projects/tattoo.html) as a counterexample for the idea about criminals.


I hope youīll understand that there is nothing personal to that remark. Yes, people can be pretty unforgiving, and maybe Iīm being too conservative. Anyway, as I depend on direct contact with clients of a certain personal profile for living, I think my long hair and beard are transgressive enough. Itīs a hypocritical society this one we live in.

Disinfo Agent
2006-Jan-11, 11:58 PM
I agree with Enzp on this: everything falls out of fashion, eventually.

soylentgreen
2006-Jan-12, 12:40 AM
I agree with Enzp on this: everything falls out of fashion, eventually.


Sorry Agent, subscribing to the "everything is cyclical" line of reason just fell out of vogue...two minutes ago! ;)


ps. Don't worry, some anti-establishment types are bound to bring it back in over the next few days. :)

Van Rijn
2006-Jan-12, 12:42 AM
On the contrary, pierceings and tattoos might become wearable computer interfaces in the near or midrange future. Rather than having direct neural interfacing which might be invasive and psychologically disturbing, wearable computers might be confined to the outside of our bodies in tattoos and earrings-noserings-eyebrow rings.
An earring could handle incoming voice traffic, lip or throat piercings could hold microphones;
eyebrow piercings could hold optical projectors which send graphical interface imagery direcly onto the retina.


That's the first argument I've ever heard for these things that would make sense to me. I simply have never understood messing up your skin or what amounts to self-mutilation. I pick up enough dings, scars and marks without adding to it deliberately.

But if it did something useful - advanced computer interfaces, for instance, I could understand that.

Sigma_Orionis
2006-Jan-12, 12:43 AM
well, as Oscar Wilde used to say:


Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.

Editted for clarity

HenrikOlsen
2006-Jan-12, 12:51 AM
Well, self mulilation is a valid way to look at tattooing.

Personally I'd rather call it self modification, as I don't differentiate between getting pretty patterns to your skin, getting bigger breast or any of the other ways available to us to modify our bodies.

Tobin Dax
2006-Jan-12, 12:55 AM
3d body art. Metal implanted in the skin in order to give it 3d ridges and/or silicone implants such as the horns that Enigma is sporting nowadays.

Hmm. Klingon foreheads as body art. :think: :D

Oh, sOri, I'm curious as to when Oscar Wilde posted that. ;)

Sigma_Orionis
2006-Jan-12, 01:01 AM
sOri, I'm curious as to when Oscar Wilde posted that. ;)

Hmmmm about 100 years ago...... :lol:

Halcyon Dayz
2006-Jan-12, 01:48 AM
I simply have never understood messing up your skin or
what amounts to self-mutilation.
It's a tribal thing.

DukePaul
2006-Jan-12, 02:36 AM
I'm trying to imagine California high school girls class of 2020 with ritual facial scarring, neck loops, lip plates and plaid school uniforms. Who knows? Maybe men and women in the near future will revel cute tiny feet and will start to bind their feet as once the Chinese women did. Cute but deformed feet. You know how the Lord of the Rings is popular so maybe people will have their ears reshaped to have elf ears or maybe have the ears removed and have some other shape or design attached. Bat ears? Wolf ears? Maybe elephant ears.

Enzp
2006-Jan-12, 04:29 AM
Henrik, I don't know about in Denmark, but in the USA today people aer just covered with them everywhere you look. A generation ago this was not remotely the case. When I was a kid 50 years ago, only sailors and toughs had tatoos.

Peer recognition cues change over time, and while 50 years ago tatoos were a sign of low lifes, these days it is accepted in youthful society without stigma.

HenrikOlsen
2006-Jan-12, 05:13 AM
Well, 50 years ago Denmark had this guy (http://www.vanishingtattoo.com/tattoo/celeb-frederik.htm) as king, so tattoos where not quite such a lowlife thing:)

Enzp
2006-Jan-12, 06:35 AM
And I have no doubt there are many areas of culture where our countries have differed over time.

When I was young, when we saw a young person wearing a leather jacket, greased back hair, pegged pants, we understood he was a tough guy. We called them "greasers" or JDs. (Juvenile delinquents) The lovable Fonzie character of TV was nothing like real life.

Never was it made more clear to me that social cues change when maybe 15-20 years ago (when the "punk" look was popular with the youth) I was approached on the street by a young man sporting this look. I automatically tensed and wondered what bad thing was about to happen. The young man said to me, "Excuse me sir. Do you happen to know what time it is? I am supposed to meet my mother at 3:00." I realized that this look was simply the way the kids were dressing, and all the attendant bagges of the 1950s was absent. Thus tattoos. All the things associated with them in the past do not necessarily apply today.

Disinfo Agent
2006-Jan-12, 01:50 PM
:lol: Brilliant story, Enzp!


Sorry Agent, subscribing to the "everything is cyclical" line of reason just fell out of vogue...two minutes ago! ;)Touché. :D

With so many people experimenting around me, I have to say I've come to like some tattoos, and even piercings. What's the big difference between having a ring in your nose and having a ring in your earlobe, anyway? (Still can't get used to those tongue things, though...) As long as they don't cover too much of the body, and they're not too flashy, they can enhance natural physical qualities, or hide small flaws.
I see nothing attractive about people who tattoo themselves from head to toes, or have 2,859 piercings in their ear, though. :eek:

And I still think it will go out of fashion. :p

Gillianren
2006-Jan-12, 05:56 PM
I'm trying to imagine California high school girls class of 2020 with ritual facial scarring, neck loops, lip plates and plaid school uniforms. Who knows? Maybe men and women in the near future will revel cute tiny feet and will start to bind their feet as once the Chinese women did. Cute but deformed feet. You know how the Lord of the Rings is popular so maybe people will have their ears reshaped to have elf ears or maybe have the ears removed and have some other shape or design attached. Bat ears? Wolf ears? Maybe elephant ears.

I can assure you that Chinese foot binding will not be the next fashion trend. In order for it work, you have to start doing it in infancy, and I can pretty much guarantee that any parent that tried it would have their kid taken away very quickly.

SolusLupus
2006-Jan-12, 06:04 PM
I really don't see why people look down on tattooing so much. I have a good friend in the SCA who expresses his love of wolves through a wolf tattoo on his arm. Should I assume he was a criminal or a low-life? Funny, because he seems like a very reasonable and fun-loving guy.

It's my body. If I want to paint a picture onto it, I don't get why you should claim I'm "mutilating" it. Where's the mutilation? Where's the problems? Show me that a tattoo is bad for my skin or my body, and maybe I would agree that it was mutilation. Other than that, I would never use "mutilation" to describe it.

Vaelroth
2006-Jan-12, 09:27 PM
Tattoos can cause the skin underneath to become colored scar tissue in a sense. Scar tissue isn't stretchy like normal skin is and it can tear open if stretched too much. Now, this probably won't happen with everyday movement, but if you're really athletic and have a tattoo in the wrong place, things could wind up being really painful.

I support tattoos though, I hang out with a big art crowd and a couple of my friends are tattoo artists. They absolutely love it if they're at a party and someone they've inked shows up. Then they can say, "This person was my canvas a little while back. I did this and this here, and then a week or two later added this and this." Tattoos are now a big pride thing for the artists who draw them and I've seen a lot of good come from them. Tattoos are also great for story telling and sharing life events with. I know of a couple that had twin snakes tattooed on their ring fingers in place of getting actual rings for their wedding. There are also a few others that I know who have tattoos commemerating special events in their lives. These special events aren't like, "Oh, I liked this girl and got her name tattooed in this heart, then added a new heart for these two girls." They're more along the lines of, "I got this tattoo of an art piece I saw outside of the Recher theatre the night we played that show that got us a record deal!"

Enzp
2006-Jan-13, 04:30 AM
Lonewulf, people look down on it because of the things I stated above. Today it may no longer be a sign of a low life, but a generation or two ago it was. It takes time for the changes to filter through society as a whole. Tattoos may fall from favor, but they no longer are the hallmark of low living for the youth. To us older folk, it will take longer. If someone looks down on your tattoo, it is more likely someone from my generation rather than your younger brother.

Look at homosexuality. When I was young a public display of that would be absolutely unthinkable. Now it makes a few folks uncomfortable, but we largely accept it. As time goes on it will become just another part of daily life. But in the interim, there will still be large segments of the population who hold the older view.

As to mutilations, I think that is a strong word. I always thought of it as permanently disfiguring your body. I can see someone wanting to honor something in their life. I looked at it, though, as I would any other display. I cannot imagine wearing the same hat the rest of my life, or the same bumpersticker on my car forever. I don't tell the same joke over and over instead of getting new ones. I don't wear the same color shirt every day. To me a tattoo is all of those things. But that is my dated opinion, I don't ask people not to go in the tattoo parlor if they are of a mind to go.

One change I have noticed within my adult lifetime. Long ago, tattoos were something one did specifically. One wanted a certain something on their body and went out and got it. Nowdays I often see tattoos as an end unto themselves. In other words it is the getting of the tattoo moreso than its content that matters. I have overheard people planning their evening, "Let's go to the game, then we can get some dinner, and then we can go get a tattoo." No longer is it "I wan't a tattoo of my mother." Now it is "I want a tattoo. We'll pick one when we get there. Oh, of course that is not an abssolute, like the guy with the wolf, I am sure folks still do plenty of purposeful body art, but the overall trend has changed considerable.

Van Rijn
2006-Jan-13, 06:04 AM
What's the big difference between having a ring in your nose and having a ring in your earlobe, anyway?


Nose piercing is more permanent and significant, but I've never really understood earlobe piercings either. Oh, I know they have been around for ages and are part of the culture, etc., etc. but I just don't get the "piercing" idea. (And, hey, if you don't agree with me, at least you can't argue that I'm inconsistent!)



(Still can't get used to those tongue things, though...)


Yep, my problem is that I imagine what it would be like if somebody stuck something through my tongue (or whatever). I don't like that image and I don't like seeing examples of it.


It's my body. If I want to paint a picture onto it, I don't get why you should claim I'm "mutilating" it. Where's the mutilation? Where's the problems? Show me that a tattoo is bad for my skin or my body, and maybe I would agree that it was mutilation. Other than that, I would never use "mutilation" to describe it.

When I think of that term, I'm generally thinking of the more extensive piercings that can only be fixed with plastic surgery and even then will leave scars. Anyway, If I meet someone, I'm not going to say "You're mutilating yourself." I'm not going to tell someone what they can and can't do. But, I cannot picture in my mind why someone would want to do that to themselves. It doesn't appeal to me, it isn't something I like. That's simply how I feel about the issue.

As for the problems: Obviously, there is always the dangers of infection for piercing or tattooing. It shouldn't be overemphasized, but it is there.

HenrikOlsen
2006-Jan-13, 06:58 AM
One change I have noticed within my adult lifetime. Long ago, tattoos were something one did specifically. One wanted a certain something on their body and went out and got it. Nowdays I often see tattoos as an end unto themselves. In other words it is the getting of the tattoo moreso than its content that matters. I have overheard people planning their evening, "Let's go to the game, then we can get some dinner, and then we can go get a tattoo." No longer is it "I want a tattoo of my mother." Now it is "I want a tattoo. We'll pick one when we get there. Oh, of course that is not an abssolute, like the guy with the wolf, I am sure folks still do plenty of purposeful body art, but the overall trend has changed considerable.
I think part of why you get this impression is that many people go for a specific style of tattoo or a specific look for themselves, rather than wanting a specific motive.
This makes it much more a matter of shopping for the actual image when you're there and can see what the artist is capable of.
Incidentally in the older days, there was a much higher tendency for tattoo artists to have a set of standard images you could get, take it or pay much more.
I know that when I got my big tattoo (http://www.iaeste.dk/~henrik/projects/tattoo.html), I knew what the part on the side of the shoulder should be, but I left it to the tattoo artist to design Fafnir's body after telling him where it should be.

zebo-the-fat
2006-Jan-13, 09:14 AM
I see no reason to stick needles into my skin unless it's for medical reasons. (Beside, I look perfect as it is, anyone who disagrees is just mistaken! :razz: )

Disinfo Agent
2006-Jan-13, 01:26 PM
I know that when I got my big tattoo (http://www.iaeste.dk/~henrik/projects/tattoo.html), I knew what the part on the side of the shoulder should be, but I left it to the tattoo artist to design Fafnir's body after telling him where it should be.The sword piercing through the dragon's neck is a nice touch.

The one thing I kind of disapprove is when I see young parents walking by with their little children, and the children already have tattoos or piercings! They're children, for God's sake! Let them grow up first! Then they can decide for themselves if/how they want to make a tattoo or a piercing. :eek:
Kids today... :rolleyes:

SolusLupus
2006-Jan-13, 02:52 PM
The one thing I kind of disapprove is when I see young parents walking by with their little children, and the children already have tattoos or piercings! They're children, for God's sake! Let them grow up first! Then they can decide for themselves if/how they want to make a tattoo or a piercing. :eek:
Kids today... :rolleyes:


Ooookay, I will agree with that. Reminds me of when I saw someone dress up their 6-8 year old (I'm so bad with age) kid in football gear. He was NOT at a good age to start running into people.

Parents try too hard to force their style of life on their children, sometimes. To the point of risking severe injury.

HenrikOlsen
2006-Jan-13, 07:49 PM
The sword piercing through the dragon's neck is a nice touch.
It isn't part of the original motif (http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/door3936.jpg) but in the reproductions the tattooer had available it was difficult to see so we chose to have Gram piercing Fafnirs neck.

Gillianren
2006-Jan-14, 01:16 AM
Isn't it illegal to tatoo anyone under 18? It should be. (Likewise body piercings. I had a friend who chipped her teeth on her tongue stud; it was just gross.)

The Supreme Canuck
2006-Jan-14, 01:27 AM
Hm, tattoos and piercings? I tend to not like them. Just personal taste. I don't find them aesthetically pleasing, but if they're for you, go for it.

Vaelroth
2006-Jan-14, 04:46 AM
Isn't it illegal to tatoo anyone under 18? It should be. (Likewise body piercings. I had a friend who chipped her teeth on her tongue stud; it was just gross.)

Tattoos and piercings are illegal for minors in the U.S. without parental consent.

Enzp
2006-Jan-14, 05:33 AM
There is no shortage of parents who will provide that consent though. I suspect many of them will be grandparents by age 35, but that is another story.

(Preamptively: I am only referring to people who would allow their grade school age children to be tattooed.)

suntrack2
2006-Jan-14, 10:08 AM
there is a great boom all over the world about tatooing, plastic stickers, the herbal tatoos and so on, the peoples taste's are changing very fastly. and many colors are permantly sticked on the hands, neck, forehands. !