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View Full Version : You CAN Fly Without ID?



sarongsong
2006-Mar-14, 10:51 AM
"...[US] air passengers are NOT required to present identification; instead, they can opt to be searched, as a "selectee"...if a citizen is unwilling to show ID at airports and is also unwilling to consent to an additional, arbitrary physical search, then that citizen is "free to leave" but not free to travel..." PapersPlease.org (http://papersplease.org/gilmore/decision.html)

Gilmore v.Gonzales (www.ca9.uscourts.gov/coa/newopinions.nsf/A6AE4C85241C517C88257101007B72EB/$file/0415736.pdf?openelement), 9th Circuit Court (.pdf)

Gilmore refused to be a 'selectee'.

kucharek
2006-Mar-14, 10:53 AM
And how do you prove you are US citizen without an ID?

TriangleMan
2006-Mar-14, 12:02 PM
I'd like to know how someone would be able to pick up their ticket without ID.

Moose
2006-Mar-14, 12:10 PM
Ah, see, you can fly without ID. You simply can't cross customs, pick up your boarding pass, nor check luggage without it. But otherwise, yeah, you can opt for the thorough groping in lieu of presenting your ID.

clop
2006-Mar-14, 12:41 PM
You can fly without ID in Australia because you don't need to show a valid ticket or ID to entire the "sterile area" i.e. post security. Anyone can go through the security area and into the departure lounges without a ticket. ID is not checked when boarding the plane. So it would be easy to swap boarding passes with someone on a different flight or give your boarding pass to an anonymous someone else. And the other day I flew from a regional airport, no ID, no security AT ALL, and the plane was so small (8 seats) that I sat in the co-pilot's seat with the dual control column between my knees and my feet between the pedals, giving me ample opportunity to take control of the plane and crash it into the international terminal or another plane.

clop

farmerjumperdon
2006-Mar-14, 06:24 PM
I got to do that once, and the pilot actually let me steer for a few moments!

Gillianren
2006-Mar-14, 07:31 PM
Here's what I don't get--how hard is it to get fake ID, if high school students have been doing it for decades?

farmerjumperdon
2006-Mar-14, 07:50 PM
Here's what I don't get--how hard is it to get fake ID, if high school students have been doing it for decades?

It used to be very, very easy for anybody who tried. It has become more difficult for amatuers, but for those with good skills in papers, inks, and the necessary hardware (which nowadays includes a computer), it is still not all that difficult.

Manufacturing a completely new identity, with a set of all the documents a person needs for life is still within easy reach. The requirement of applying for an SSN at birth is the biggest obstacle. Once you get a "clean" SSN, everything else is a piece of cake.

I have a friend who used to be in the business of of illegal paperwork and was very good at it. The thing that made it so easy was that the people that had to be fooled were so easy to fool. Other than passing currency, that is still the case. Also, most of the products to create the real documents of the world are available if you know where to go to buy them. My friends documents often looked better than the real thing.

His philosophy was that what makes a document "real" is whether or not it is accepted for the intended purpose.

snarkophilus
2006-Mar-15, 01:21 AM
I will tell you a short story about my trip to California a year and a half ago. I went down with a friend who was visiting Canada for his sister's wedding, and the plan was that we'd drive down in his car, I'd stay at his place for a week and a bit, then I would fly back from San Francisco.

So, my driver's license came up for renewal, and I wasn't going to be back in time to renew it. I therefore had to get it done before I left or re-take the driver's test (and after I got it back, I'd have restrictions on my driving because of new laws). In BC, the government technically owns your driver's license, and you have to turn in the picture ID when you get it renewed. They give you a yellow piece of paper with your name on it, and that's it.

So, we drove to the border. I had no ID other than that yellow piece of paper and an expired student ID. When they asked me about it, I said, "oh, they told me it would be all right." We got across with maybe a five minute delay. Okay, maybe that's just because I'm with an American citizen.

So the vacation goes by, and now I need to get on the airplane. I get to the airport and there's a bit of a hassle about giving me my ticket. I use the same line, "they said it'd be okay." It is explained to me that if I can't get in to Canada, then the airline is responsible, so I have to promise that I can get back in. Sure. I can promise anything.

I get off the plane and go to customs. The woman at the counter asks if I'd like service in French or English. "Francais, s'il vous plait." What better way to prove I'm from Canada. Two questions, one to determine if I'm Canadian, and one about how much alcohol I'm bringing back, and I'm through. I was convinced it was the French that got me through there (although I learned later that Canada Customs has a link to the RCMP database, which is in turn holds driver's license info, so they might have looked up my picture there).

Anyway, I could have been anyone, and I got across both borders and onto an international flight with ease.

The Mangler
2006-Mar-15, 04:35 AM
You won't be able to do much of anything without a National ID (http://news.com.com/FAQ+How+Real+ID+will+affect+you/2100-1028_3-5697111.html) pretty soon.

VTBoy
2006-Mar-15, 06:56 AM
Children under 13 can also fly without an ID, if they are accompanied by an adult with an ID.

SeanF
2006-Mar-15, 03:44 PM
Children under 13 can also fly without an ID, if they are accompanied by an adult with an ID.
How do you prove they're under 13 if they don't have an ID? ;)

Moose
2006-Mar-15, 03:56 PM
How do you prove they're under 13 if they don't have an ID? ;)

Split 'em in two and count the (dirt) rings.

farmerjumperdon
2006-Mar-15, 05:27 PM
Why is riding in a plane called flying, but riding in a boat is not called swimming?

Moose
2006-Mar-15, 05:31 PM
Why is riding in a plane called flying, but riding in a boat is not called swimming?

And yet, let your 3-year old play with a power drill for five lousy minutes...

paulie jay
2006-Mar-15, 10:31 PM
You can fly without ID in Australia because you don't need to show a valid ticket or ID to entire the "sterile area" i.e. post security. Anyone can go through the security area and into the departure lounges without a ticket. ID is not checked when boarding the plane. So it would be easy to swap boarding passes with someone on a different flight or give your boarding pass to an anonymous someone else. And the other day I flew from a regional airport, no ID, no security AT ALL, and the plane was so small (8 seats) that I sat in the co-pilot's seat with the dual control column between my knees and my feet between the pedals, giving me ample opportunity to take control of the plane and crash it into the international terminal or another plane.

clop
In Australia, for domestic flights you cannot board an aircraft without a boarding pass. In order to get that boarding pass you must present ID at the check in area.

On international flights it is impossible to enter the sterile area without a boarding pass and passport because Customs won't let you past the outwards immigration line without them.

Gruesome
2006-Mar-16, 02:36 PM
How can you fly without ID? I mean someone intelligent had to design the plane, right? At least I hope so...

...Oh, wait. Wrong ID.

Never mind.

Swift
2006-Mar-16, 02:57 PM
How can you fly without ID? I mean someone intelligent had to design the plane, right? At least I hope so...

...Oh, wait. Wrong ID.

Never mind.
Even worse is flying with ego (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego).
:D