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The Saint
2006-Mar-15, 01:46 AM
Just how effective could an Al Qaeda attack using a crop duster dispensing nerve gas over a dense windless flat city eg LA?

And a biological agent?

Worse case scenario, could it see hundreds dead? Or hundreds of thousands?

The premonitory pre-911 film "Executive Decision" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116253/ depicts Islamic terrorists trying to explode a 747 full of nerve gas over Washington. The hero says: "If this goes off you can forget DC. It'll take out the whole Eastern Seaboard!".

Is this possible? ie a non-nuclear weapon killing tens of millions?

HenrikOlsen
2006-Mar-15, 12:06 PM
I doubt a nerve gas could come close, but a biological agent with a large enough dispersion could, just think about the Spanish Flu.

Fr. Wayne
2006-Mar-16, 11:49 PM
Biological weapons, in order to spread to epidemic levels must not kill off its hosts before they can spread. That's why most diseases especially flus are all, correct me if I'm wrong, avian in their evolution. Locust and flies can't travel far or fast enough to keep the disease (virus?) active. Here in Illinois a neighbor turned in a man who "accidentally" shot a "protected by law" goose. $10,000 fine. Geese has more rights than humans in Cook County. Maybe the aliens in Roswell were birds in machines and told us the rules of the sky.

Cylinder
2006-Mar-17, 01:12 AM
It should also be pointed out that if you decide to disperse weapons-grade CW with crop dusting equipment out-of-the-box, you will be lucky to get wheels-up, since you and the unlucky few that came into close proximity of the aircraft will be the majority of the victims.

Fr. Wayne
2006-Mar-17, 05:45 AM
Cool avatar, Cylinder. Is it a French design?

farmerjumperdon
2006-Mar-17, 02:51 PM
Biological weapons, in order to spread to epidemic levels must not kill off its hosts before they can spread. That's why most diseases especially flus are all, correct me if I'm wrong, avian in their evolution. Locust and flies can't travel far or fast enough to keep the disease (virus?) active. Here in Illinois a neighbor turned in a man who "accidentally" shot a "protected by law" goose. $10,000 fine. Geese has more rights than humans in Cook County. Maybe the aliens in Roswell were birds in machines and told us the rules of the sky.

I've always wondered why they are protected. We're on the flyway from wherever it is they come from to wherever it is they go, and we see flocks that sometimes extend from horizon to horizon. Not to mention the large numbers that now just hang out instead of migrating.

Fr. Wayne
2006-Mar-17, 03:08 PM
Now you know. (giggle)

sts60
2006-Mar-17, 03:39 PM
A crop duster flying low on a windless day, spraying a nerve agent, could kill a lot of people. Assuming they were able to load it without killing themselves. But not "hundreds of thousands", not by a long shot. The stuff disperses and breaks down too quickly.

What's really silly is the "chemtrail" crowd saying that this or that (e.g., "mind-control" agents) is inflicted on the populace by jetliners flying thirty or forty thousand feet up. They could be spraying VX all day and no one on the ground would as much as sneeze.

Fr. Wayne
2006-Mar-17, 03:58 PM
Just as long as people don't start shooting from their cars the local crop duster guy, but I think a remote-controlled aircraft upwind could make me down a bottle of DayQuil®
The daytime, anytime, non-drowsy, stuffy head, sore throat, coughing, aching, fever relief to help get back your energy cold medicine But that's only me.

Cylinder
2006-Mar-17, 04:04 PM
Cool avatar, Cylinder. Is it a French design?

Thanks. It's my old patch from the 78th Tactical Fighter Wing, RAF Lakenheath. They adopted the Statue of Liberty moniker when based near Bartholdi's workshops in Chaulmont, France in the 1950s.

peteshimmon
2006-Mar-17, 06:17 PM
A doctor noticed isolated cases of cholera
were clustered under flightpaths in Europe
some years ago. Aircrafts toilets were
allowed to overflow apparently. They still are.
And a few cases of "icebombs" damaged roofs in
Southern England a year ago. The people
concerned had to use freedom of information
laws to get the Air Traffic authorities to
cough up details of the aircraft responcible!
I wondered why they could not just send the
police in to find the culprits.

Fr. Wayne
2006-Mar-17, 08:04 PM
Ee-uww! Now I believe in UFO's.

Dr Nigel
2006-Mar-17, 11:19 PM
The thing is, a chemical agent wouldn't disperse far enough to kill a huge number of people, and a biological agent would need to be non-fatal to most people that are infected, so a nuke would be far surer and easier to target. Or lots of them.

Why was it you wanted to take out the eastern US?

Viruses tend to be most successful if they don't incovenience their hosts very much (compare West Nile Virus with the common cold). The most successful virus I know of is a HERV (a human endogenous retrovirus) - it infects everyone on the planet, but exhibits no symptoms at all.

Fortis
2006-Mar-18, 12:50 AM
A doctor noticed isolated cases of cholera
were clustered under flightpaths in Europe
some years ago. Aircrafts toilets were
allowed to overflow apparently. They still are.
And a few cases of "icebombs" damaged roofs in
Southern England a year ago. The people
concerned had to use freedom of information
laws to get the Air Traffic authorities to
cough up details of the aircraft responcible!
I wondered why they could not just send the
police in to find the culprits.
If you read the story of the two guys who claimed to have started the whole crop circle fad, one of them claims to have been hit one night by a freefalling (non-frozen) lump. (As it hit him on the head, and he was operating in the dark, he intially thought that it was gore that he could feel on his head...)

Dr Nigel
2006-Mar-18, 11:37 AM
Ew!!!

peteshimmon
2006-Mar-18, 12:03 PM
Yes I remember seeing that show as well. As the
subject was about active hoaxing I was not sure
what to make of it. But there have been real
recorded incidents. At Gatwick Airport
recently a chap found his car stoved in by
a giant ice block. I wonder if patrons of that
carpark (under the landing flightpath) now
jostle for spaces at the edge away from the
runway line. And has there been a real tragedy?
A few years ago a woman was found with a
massive headwound along a track in Oxfordshire.
She died and a young man was tried and
aquitted of the killing. I do not know if a
weapon was identified but I suspected an
icebomb incident.