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Mr. X
2001-Oct-25, 04:15 PM
Has anything made of WOOD ever been sent into space? Not necessarily for an experiment in microgravity, but in contact with outer space, but maybe in the structure of an old space ship?

Just wanted to know.

Karl
2001-Oct-25, 04:38 PM
Does paper count?

Mr. X
2001-Oct-25, 04:52 PM
On 2001-10-25 12:38, Karl wrote:
Does paper count?


Um... no, it does not!

Well, it would, but as long as it was not used for writing! Or some other pointless use, like paper cups, coffee filters and the like. Or air filters. Or a cardboard box that happened to be sent in the shuttle by mistake.

I feel like I'll have to be a lawyer with you! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mr. X on 2001-10-25 12:58 ]</font>

Valiant Dancer
2001-Oct-25, 05:01 PM
On 2001-10-25 12:15, Mr. X wrote:
Has anything made of WOOD ever been sent into space? Not necessarily for an experiment in microgravity, but in contact with outer space, but maybe in the structure of an old space ship?

Just wanted to know.


The soviet union used pencils. While our government wasted hundreds of thousands of dollars developing a pen that works in zero-G, the soviets brought pencils.

_________________

Valiant Dancer

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Valiant Dancer on 2001-10-25 13:02 ]</font>

Mr. X
2001-Oct-25, 05:12 PM
Oh my god. The sheer idiocy of humans has just hit me.

They must have been trying to write with those fancy pens that have that feather like tip. Or feathers ("How do you keep the ink in the bottle!?" they kept asking). Or ballpens. I think even a stupid marker would work.

If they wanted to show they had more budget they could have just sent mechanical pencils! Around 1 dollar each. But if you wanted to erase! The little things it makes would surely clog the instruments!

Has anyone at NASA ever though of throwing a small piece of wood in space to see what happens to it?

SporkWarrior
2001-Oct-25, 05:53 PM
> The soviet union used pencils. While our government wasted hundreds of
> thousands of dollars developing a pen that works in zero-G, the soviets brought pencils.

Oh please. This is a classic example of distorting facts to make some blurb used in management meetings to emphasize the point of thinking outside the box.

One, the Fisher Space Pen, as it is called was not commissioned by NASA. Paul Fisher, on his own initiative, designed the space pen. Why? He realized that pencils are combustible and if they break, that leaves small particles of graphite floating around in the capsule. Not too good for the eyes or the instrumentation. NASA in no way paid millions of dollars to create this pen.

And if you don't believe me, check out Snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.htm)

Mr. X
2001-Oct-25, 07:02 PM
On 2001-10-25 13:53, SporkWarrior wrote:
> The soviet union used pencils. While our government wasted hundreds of
> thousands of dollars developing a pen that works in zero-G, the soviets brought pencils.

Oh please. This is a classic example of distorting facts to make some blurb used in management meetings to emphasize the point of thinking outside the box.

One, the Fisher Space Pen, as it is called was not commissioned by NASA. Paul Fisher, on his own initiative, designed the space pen. Why? He realized that pencils are combustible and if they break, that leaves small particles of graphite floating around in the capsule. Not too good for the eyes or the instrumentation. NASA in no way paid millions of dollars to create this pen.

And if you don't believe me, check out Snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.htm)



Thanks SporkWarrior! But what about my question? WOOD IN SPACE! And NO pencils! Or paper! No writing gear! No coffee filters, no air filters, no paper cups, no discarded cardboard boxes left by error in the shuttle! Wood with a real use!


Fisher spent over one million dollars in trying to perfect the ball point pen before he made his first successful pressurized pens in 1965. Samples were immediately sent to Dr. Robert Gilruth, Manager of the Houston Space Center, where they were thoroughly tested and approved for use in Space in September 1965. In December 1967 he sold 400 Fisher Space Pens to NASA for $2.95 each.

The point stands however, because I don't know what that guy Fisher was thinking. Assuming he spent that 1 000 000$ and managed to sell 400 to NASA for 2,95$ each doesn't that leave him minus 998 820$? He might have sold more of those but at 2,95 doesn't that mean he needed to sell about 338 983 pens, now he sold 400, so that leaves 338 583 to just compensate for what he has spent.

Assuming it comes packaged in a 1,5 centimeter by 1,5 centimeter by 25 centimeter box, it means that all those pens would take 19 067 793,75 cm^3 and since 1 km^3 = 1 000 000 cm^3 that would mean roughly 19,1 km^3 of space for all those pens he needed to sell to just compensate. I don't know if NASA has filled all its warehouses with boxes of space pens and since the pen had less than stellar sales on the market, he must have blackmailed a lot of people to force NASA into buying 19,1 cubic kilometers of space pens. And 1 000 000$ is just for his research. He has people that needed to be paid, a production that needed to be paid, so he probably needed to sell a lot more than that to stay in business (and they did). It must be hell moving in NASA offices, submerged in an enormous quantity of space pens.

I suspect that the international space station is a cover up to be able to send shuttles that should be unloaded in space, packing them full of space pens and dumping them where they rightfully belong: in space.

Laughing yet? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Now let's just WATCH an idiot barge in here saying something along the lines of "Your numbers are inaccurate, as the space pen box is..." /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Let's just stick to wood in space shall we! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mr. X on 2001-10-25 15:47 ]</font>

Wiley
2001-Oct-25, 07:38 PM
Mr. X,

Why do you wish to know if wood has been used in Space? I think we need a new category: Trivial Astronomy. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

SporkWarrior,

Bacteria causes milk to spoil. Since we have no evidence of space-borne bacteria, we should not be surprised the Milky Way has yet to become the Cheesy Way. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Azpod
2001-Oct-25, 08:06 PM
Hey, aren't they testing various materials on the ISS? Basically it's a panel hanging outside of the station composed of various tiles to see what happens to them when exposed to the rigors of space (solar radiation, micrometeroids, urine dumps, et cetera.)

I don't think it's the case, but does anyone know if a type of wood is one of them...?

I think that's what he's driving at. *shrug*

Mr. X
2001-Oct-25, 08:08 PM
On 2001-10-25 15:38, Wiley wrote:
Mr. X,

Why do you wish to know if wood has been used in Space? I think we need a new category: Trivial Astronomy. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

SporkWarrior,

Bacteria causes milk to spoil. Since we have no evidence of space-borne bacteria, we should not be surprised the Milky Way has yet to become the Cheesy Way. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif


Better yet! THE CHEEZ WHIZ (tm) way! Of course, owned by Kraft (tm) which is a Philip Morris (tm) company! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

The Curtmudgeon
2001-Oct-25, 08:56 PM
And here all this time I thought it was the Moon that was made of (green) cheese....

The (and about those pen boxes...) Curtmudgeon

Karl
2001-Oct-25, 09:08 PM
Balsa wood was used on the Ranger project.

http://www.airspacemag.com/ASM/Mag/Index/1997/JJ/hdld.html

I remember reading about this in National Geographic many years ago.

Mr. X
2001-Oct-25, 09:47 PM
Thanks a lot Karl! That is VERY cool indeed! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif

Any more uses for wood in space?

Phobos
2001-Oct-25, 09:50 PM
Didn't a guy called Noah send a wooden spaceship into space stuffed full of animals when the icecaps last melted ??

Jeff /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Mr. X
2001-Oct-25, 11:31 PM
On 2001-10-25 17:50, Phobos wrote:
Didn't a guy called Noah send a wooden spaceship into space stuffed full of animals when the icecaps last melted ??

Jeff /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif


Quite right Jeff. Unfortunately his ship was improperly shielded from radiations, and cross-breeding from llamas, elephants, camels, pigs, cows, girafes and humans has yielded the current population of the Earth.

Shame on Noah for unleashing such atrocities on our planet. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

ToSeek
2001-Oct-26, 12:05 PM
On 2001-10-25 15:02, Mr. X wrote:

The point stands however, because I don't know what that guy Fisher was thinking. Assuming he spent that 1 000 000$ and managed to sell 400 to NASA for 2,95$ each doesn't that leave him minus 998 820$? He might have sold more of those but at 2,95 doesn't that mean he needed to sell about 338 983 pens, now he sold 400, so that leaves 338 583 to just compensate for what he has spent.


I used to own a Fisher space pen. There were lots of ads for them in the space magazines, and I'm sure I'm not the only space nut who bought one. ("Use the same pen that the astronauts used!") Better than Tang, for sure.

ToSeek
2001-Oct-26, 12:06 PM
There were plans on the Ranger unmanned probes that crashed into Mars to have a wooden ball with instruments inside be released as part of the probe and make it to the surface. The wood was balsa, so it would take the force of the impact, and then the instruments would set to work. But with all of the problems with the Rangers (the first six failed), this scheme was never put into practice.

brianok
2001-Oct-26, 12:17 PM
What about the flag planted on the moon, was it on a wooden flagpole?

Mr. X
2001-Oct-26, 12:26 PM
On 2001-10-26 08:05, ToSeek wrote:
I used to own a Fisher space pen. There were lots of ads for them in the space magazines, and I'm sure I'm not the only space nut who bought one. ("Use the same pen that the astronauts used!") Better than Tang, for sure.


Okay, are you sure you read my ENTIRE post? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Not quite the pen boxes but close enough. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Mr. X
2001-Oct-26, 12:27 PM
On 2001-10-25 16:06, Azpod wrote:
Hey, aren't they testing various materials on the ISS? Basically it's a panel hanging outside of the station composed of various tiles to see what happens to them when exposed to the rigors of space (solar radiation, micrometeroids, urine dumps, et cetera.)

I don't think it's the case, but does anyone know if a type of wood is one of them...?

I think that's what he's driving at. *shrug*



You have more info in that panel, Azpod? It would help!

ToSeek
2001-Oct-26, 03:03 PM
On 2001-10-26 08:17, brianok wrote:
What about the flag planted on the moon, was it on a wooden flagpole?


The flagpole was metal (made by the sheet metal shop at the Manned Spaceflight Center, now Johnson Space Center). More about the flag and flagpole:

http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/mars/reference/flag/flag.html

ToSeek
2001-Oct-26, 03:04 PM
On 2001-10-25 17:08, Karl wrote:
Balsa wood was used on the Ranger project.

http://www.airspacemag.com/ASM/Mag/Index/1997/JJ/hdld.html

I remember reading about this in National Geographic many years ago.


But the same article indicates that the balsa was never actually used, just planned. By the time Ranger got its act together, the Surveyor program was underway, which made Ranger's efforts to get instruments to the surface unnecessary.

ToSeek
2001-Oct-26, 03:11 PM
On 2001-10-25 16:06, Azpod wrote:
Hey, aren't they testing various materials on the ISS? Basically it's a panel hanging outside of the station composed of various tiles to see what happens to them when exposed to the rigors of space (solar radiation, micrometeroids, urine dumps, et cetera.)

I don't think it's the case, but does anyone know if a type of wood is one of them...?



I tried to do a couple of Internet searches to see if the Long Duration Exposure Facility (LDEF) released by the shuttle had any wood on it, but it looks like not.

Azpod
2001-Oct-26, 05:57 PM
On 2001-10-26 08:27, Mr. X wrote:


On 2001-10-25 16:06, Azpod wrote:
Hey, aren't they testing various materials on the ISS? Basically it's a panel hanging outside of the station composed of various tiles to see what happens to them when exposed to the rigors of space (solar radiation, micrometeroids, urine dumps, et cetera.)

I don't think it's the case, but does anyone know if a type of wood is one of them...?

I think that's what he's driving at. *shrug*



You have more info in that panel, Azpod? It would help!


All I know is the story that briefly mentioned it in cnn.com-- http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/space/08/12/shuttle.alpha/index.html

Sadly, it doesn't include any links about the experiment where we can find out exactly what was included in it. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_evil.gif

Mr. Wree
2001-Oct-27, 05:56 PM
Um, don't male astronauts sometimes when they wake up...ah, oh, nevermind. :rolleyes:

Mr. X
2001-Oct-28, 05:18 AM
On 2001-10-27 13:56, Mr. Wree wrote:
Um, don't male astronauts sometimes when they wake up...ah, oh, nevermind. :rolleyes:


Huh? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif

GrapesOfWrath
2002-May-22, 01:30 PM
On 2001-10-28 01:18, Mr. X wrote:
Huh? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_confused.gif


Morning wood



On 2001-10-25 15:02, Mr. X wrote (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=42&forum=2&start=6):
Assuming it comes packaged in a 1,5 centimeter by 1,5 centimeter by 25 centimeter box, it means that all those pens would take 19 067 793,75 cm^3 and since 1 km^3 = 1 000 000 cm^3 that would mean roughly 19,1 km^3 of space for all those pens he needed to sell to just compensate. I don't know if NASA has filled all its warehouses with boxes of space pens and since the pen had less than stellar sales on the market, he must have blackmailed a lot of people to force NASA into buying 19,1 cubic kilometers of space pens.

Whoa, back up. A cubic meter is equal to one million cubic centimeters. So, you would only have 19 cubic meters of space pens, not 19 cubic kilometers. There's only a third of a million of them, after all. I think my kids went through that many just last year.


Now let's just WATCH an idiot barge in here saying something along the lines of "Your numbers are inaccurate, as the space pen box is..."

Sorry. Guilty. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

SiriMurthy
2002-May-22, 04:51 PM
On 2001-10-25 12:52, Mr. X wrote:


On 2001-10-25 12:38, Karl wrote:
Does paper count?


Um... no, it does not!

Well, it would, but as long as it was not used for writing! Or some other pointless use, like paper cups, coffee filters and the like. Or air filters. Or a cardboard box that happened to be sent in the shuttle by mistake.

I feel like I'll have to be a lawyer with you! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mr. X on 2001-10-25 12:58 ]</font>


In that case, how about Dollar Bills? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

SpacedOut
2002-May-22, 05:05 PM
On 2002-05-22 12:51, SiriMurthy wrote:
In that case, how about Dollar Bills? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


Dollar bills are made from rags - not wood. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

SiriMurthy
2002-May-22, 05:28 PM
On 2002-05-22 13:05, SpacedOut wrote:


On 2002-05-22 12:51, SiriMurthy wrote:
In that case, how about Dollar Bills? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


Dollar bills are made from rags - not wood. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif


I didn't know that. Why do we call it the "paper money"

SpacedOut
2002-May-22, 06:31 PM
It is paper - just not made from wood pulp.

SpacedOut
2002-May-22, 06:44 PM
More precisely the paper is composed of 25% linen and 75% cotton.

Money Museum (http://www.moneymuseum.com/standard_english/raeume/geld_machen/werkstatt/papiergeld/papiergeld.html)

Donnie B.
2002-May-22, 09:04 PM
Besides, it's hardly certain that any money has been taken into space. Last time I checked, Wal-Mart doesn't have a store up there...

Timm
2002-May-22, 11:03 PM
Somebody onboard the MIR had a wooden guitar, it was on TV when the MIR started to seriously fall apart. He didn't play it in outer space, though...

I don't think anything spectacular would happen to wood in space... Any water that's left in the wood will be sucked/pushed out, and it may break because of great thermal stress. But besides that, it will just float around. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Azpod
2002-May-23, 12:50 AM
On 2002-05-22 14:44, SpacedOut wrote:
More precisely the paper is composed of 25% linen and 75% cotton.

Money Museum (http://www.moneymuseum.com/standard_english/raeume/geld_machen/werkstatt/papiergeld/papiergeld.html)



I always wondered why you could wash your jeans with a dollar bill in the pocket and the bill would come out fine, but the receipt that was in the same pocket would be reduced to pocket lint!

Cool. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

dtilque
2002-May-28, 07:21 AM
Didn't the Chinese (or possibly the Russians) use a heat shield made of oak or something like that? I seem to remember Henry Spencer posting something about it on sci.space many years ago.

beskeptical
2002-May-28, 10:23 AM
On 2002-05-28 03:21, dtilque wrote:
Didn't the Chinese (or possibly the Russians) use a heat shield made of oak or something like that? I seem to remember Henry Spencer posting something about it on sci.space many years ago.


I can't see how anyone could make a heat shield out of combustible material!

I didn't read the first page of posts but if no one else mentioned it, was there any wood in the golf clubs taken to the moon? That is unless you think that shot was faked. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif Just kidding.

dtilque
2002-May-29, 12:04 AM
On 2002-05-28 06:23, beskeptical wrote:


On 2002-05-28 03:21, dtilque wrote:
Didn't the Chinese (or possibly the Russians) use a heat shield made of oak or something like that? I seem to remember Henry Spencer posting something about it on sci.space many years ago.


I can't see how anyone could make a heat shield out of combustible material!

I think it may have been treated not to burst into flames before it ablated away.


I didn't read the first page of posts but if no one else mentioned it, was there any wood in the golf clubs taken to the moon?

There were no golf clubs taken to the Moon. The head of a golf club was taken which the guy attached to some other instrument. Don't know what kind of golf head, but I think it was an iron.

beskeptical
2002-May-29, 01:17 AM
On 2002-05-28 20:04, dtilque wrote:
I think it may have been treated not to burst into flames before it ablated away.

There were no golf clubs taken to the Moon. The head of a golf club was taken which the guy attached to some other instrument. Don't know what kind of golf head, but I think it was an iron.


I can't think of any way to treat wood to make it resistent to as much heat as re-entry, and if it was possible, would it really be practical?

I'll wait for someone else to answer the golf club thing, I don't want to guess.

dtilque
2002-May-29, 04:50 AM
On 2002-05-28 21:17, beskeptical wrote:
I can't think of any way to treat wood to make it resistent to as much heat as re-entry, and if it was possible, would it really be practical?

On this page (http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/missile/basics.htm), it says:

An example of a natural material is the oak wood heat shield used on the Chinese FSW reentry vehicles.

It's not the only page I could find reference to their oaken heat shield. None say anything about treating the oak, so possibly they didn't have to.

SpacedOut
2002-May-29, 10:53 AM
With regards to Al Shepard’s 6 iron:

From the ALSJ Apollo 14 EVA-2 Close-out and the golf shots (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a14/a14.clsout2.html)



135:08:17 Shepard: (Facing the TV) Houston, while you're looking that up, you might recognize what I have in my hand as the handle for the contingency sample return; it just so happens to have a genuine six iron on the bottom of it. In my left hand, I have a little white pellet that's familiar to millions of Americans. I'll drop it down. Unfortunately, the suit is so stiff, I can't do this with two hands, but I'm going to try a little sand-trap shot here. (Pause)

Argos
2002-May-29, 01:06 PM
I think that parts the lunar probe Ranger were made of wood.

Balsa is a very lightweight material, and properly treated it could be a good space material, to be used in specific parts.

john pelchat
2018-Aug-03, 06:05 PM
https://vintagespace.wordpress.com/2016/12/05/can-a-wood-heat-shield-really-work/