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sun45114
2006-Apr-15, 04:10 PM
An Open Letter to NASA

NASA:

I am writing you with much concern after having read news about your explorers, which named Phoenix that will be launched by NASA in August 2007 to land and scout the high northern latitudes of Mars to seek life in May 2008 [1] and named LRO that will impact again to the Moon to seek water ice there in 2008 [2].

I query the actual effects of your programs and advance some suggests for you as follows, according to one of the viewpoints of RIFT EVOLUTIONISM [3-6] (there is rift valley in one star(i.e., heavenly body---edited by sun45114 on July 9, 2006), there could be water body and the life there, such as Mars):

1. Now that the main goal of Phoenix is to seek Mars life, it should land onto Mars’ rift valley directly. If there is some kind of lives on Mars, the Martian living beings should be first appeared in the area of the rift valley, such as Valles Marineris. So, I suggest that the landing site of Phoenix should be onto Mars' rift valley (for example, Valles Marineris).

2. There is no rift valley on our Moon. Therefore, there couldn’t exist any water ice there. The impacting to the southern pole of the Moon in 1999 has testified it. The future impacting of LRO will testify it again! I suggest that NASA should declare with clear and open what’s lurking within permanently darkened craters after the impacting in 2008.

Looking forward to hearing from you!

Sincerely yours,

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn
Thu, 13 Apr 2006

[1] http://www.spacetoday.org/SolSys/Mars/MarsExploration/MarsScout2007.html
[2] http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/exploration/main/index.html
[3] Sun Tianxi, 1987.On biologic evolution with plate breakup. In: International Symposium on Tectonic Evolution and Dynamics of Continental Lithosphere (Abstracts). Beijing, China, 2-143 (in English).
[4] Sun Tianxi, 1988. Living things and rift valleys. Nature journal, Shanghai, China, 6:430-434 (in Chinese).
[5] Sun Tianxi, 2001. Rift Evolutionism (Chinese traditional version). Hong Kong Tranfor Publishing Co. Limited, Hong Kong. ISBN: 962-85541-5-8 (in Chinese)
[6]. Sun Tianxi, 2004. Rift Evolutionism (Chinese simplified version). Sichuan Science and Technology Publishing House, Chengdu, China. ISBN: 7-5364-5411-2 (in Chinese).

antoniseb
2006-Apr-15, 04:43 PM
I see your links, but I can't find anything on the web about "Rift Evolutionism".
Can you please point to something available that can give more details about your idea that rift valleys are the source of life.

Blob
2006-Apr-15, 04:58 PM
Hum,
Imho, Valles Marineris formed when the ancient crust cracked as the planet cooled, rather than being formed by magmatic forces as on Earth.

Personally i wouldn't class Valles Marineris as a tectonic rift valley; but I'm not a geologist so my definition may be incorrect...

aurora
2006-Apr-15, 07:44 PM
Hum,
Imho, Valles Marineris formed when the ancient crust cracked as the planet cooled, rather than being formed by magmatic forces as on Earth.


It is definitely associated with the Tharsus uplift.

Take a look at the images on this site:

http://ltpwww.gsfc.nasa.gov/tharsis/global_paper.html

aurora
2006-Apr-15, 07:47 PM
2. There is no rift valley on our Moon. Therefore, there couldn’t exist any water ice there.

Rift valleys are not required for the existence of either water or ice.

Why do you think they are?

Blob
2006-Apr-15, 09:29 PM
It is definitely associated

Hum,
tnx for correction,
yeah, it looks like it is associated with the Tharsus uplift.

It seems that the cool crust was cracked as the Tharsus region was uplifting, rather than when the crust cooled after the uplift was created.
So it maybe is the same as spreading rift valleys, or the mid Atlantic ridge on Earth, er, except there is no mobile tectonic plates or subduction zones etc, to for it to spread...

Or not.

ToSeek
2006-Apr-15, 10:09 PM
Thread moved from Astronomy to Space Exploration.

It would be an interesting question as to whether it's possible to land Phoenix safely within the Valles Marineris. That's the reason the rovers didn't land there - the walls were too close and the winds were too high.

Cugel
2006-Apr-16, 12:09 AM
As you can find out here: http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/science/objectives.php

Phoenix is not designed to look for life. It does chemical analysis of soil samples, mainly to figure out if, and how much, water ice is present in the soil. It makes sense to do this in an environment that has showed a relatively high abundance of hydrogen from orbit. Hydrogen could mean water ice. In Vallis Marineris the water ice, permafrost if you like, if present is likely much deeper under ground and couldn't be detected from orbit. In the polar regions the water ice is covered with CO2 ice for a large part of the year which prevents it from sublimation. Therefor it could be present very close to the surface, where Phoenix can reach it. So, I don't think it would make much sense of landing a Phoenix like mission in Vallis Marineris or anywhere close to the equator, where it would only dig up the omni present Martian dust.

Anyway, it would be rather silly to look for current life in a spot where it so obviously can not exist.

sun45114
2006-Apr-16, 03:49 AM
I see your links, but I can't find anything on the web about "Rift Evolutionism".
Can you please point to something available that can give more details about your idea that rift valleys are the source of life.

:)

sun45114
2006-Apr-16, 04:23 AM
I see your links, but I can't find anything on the web about "Rift Evolutionism".
Can you please point to something available that can give more details about your idea that rift valleys are the source of life.

:)

sun45114
2006-Apr-16, 05:25 AM
:)
Dear all Doctors:

First of all, I thank you very much for your messages.

1. My book titled RIFT EVOLUTIONISM was in Chinese. So, you can't find anything on the web about "Rift Evolutionism";

2. The whole content of RIFT EVOLUTIONISM is as follows:

I have advanced a new thesis that life must come from rift valleys, according to the relativity between living beings and rift valleys. The hypothesis tries to seek the origin of humankind even of the life, and to remedy a shortcoming of Darwin's theory, i.e., to solve such a question Darwin didn't solve as following: Where would be the life/humankind originated firstly?

The book has some practical or immediate significance for exploring life in outer space. There is rift valley in one star; there could be water body and the life there, such as Mars.

The book cites numerous facts of the evolution within rift valleys, elaborates 8 mechanisms of rift evolution and tests and verifies it in 4 fields:
1. Rift valleys: origin places of humanity;
2. Rift of America: origin places of American Indian;
3. Rift of Japan: origin places of Ainu;
4. NASA's seeking water in outer space blindly
without guide by RIFT EVOLUTIONISM.
Thus founding a new hypothesis of biogenesis or bio-evolution.

The book raises a great judgment that the most important scientific objective for humans should be to discover some RIFT-STARS in outer space and thus finding a way out, before our Earth be ruined.

According to RIFT EVOLUTIONISM, humans could perhaps find water resources, find other lives and find some way out, within the vast universe...

3. TABLE OF CONTENTS

INTRODUCTION
BIBLIOGRAPHY

CHAPTER Ⅰ
LIFE ORIGINS FROM RIFT VALLEYS

1. RIFT VALLEYS
2. LIFE AND RIFT VALLEYS
BIBLIOGRAPHY

CHAPTER Ⅱ
MECHANISMS OF RIFT EVOLUTION

1. SMASHING REACTION
2. VENT REACTION
3. NITROGEN FIXATION
4. MOLYBDENUM ENZYME
5. GENE EMBEDDING
6. MOLECULE OXYGEN
7. VOLCANO PUMP
8. POWERFUL MAGNETIC FIELD
BIBLIOGRAPHY

CHAPTER Ⅲ
EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM

1. RIFT VALLEYS: ORIGIN PLACES OF HUMANKIND
(1) Amphipithecus and Pondaungia
(2) Aegyptopithecus
(3) Dryopithecus
(4) Sivapithecus
(5) Australopithecus
(6) Homo habilis
(7) Homo erectus
(8) Homo sapiens

2. RIFT OF AMERICA: ORIGIN PLACES OF THE AMERICAN INDIAN
(1) About anthropology characteristics
(2) About ancient cultural hangovers
(3) About Diego sub blood type
(4) About J C virus
(5) About human originated in America
(6) About Bering Land Bridge

3. RIFT OF JAPAN: ORIGIN PLACES OF THE AINU
(1) Whether Japan does exist continental rift
(2) Whether the Ainu is the oldest in Japan
(3) Whether the Ainu does have specificity

4. SEEKING WATER BLINDLY IN OUTER SPACE WITHOUT GUIDE BY RIFT EVOLUTIONISM
(1) Jupiter
(2) Moon
BIBLIOGRAPHY

CHAPTER Ⅳ
A NEW HYPOTHESIS OF SEEKING OUTER PLANET’S LIFE

1. RIFT STARS WITHIN SOLAR SYSTEM
(1) The planet having hard lithosphere is not certain to own its rift
A. Old meteorite craters
B. Density abnormity
C. There is no any trace of iron in surface
(2) There is rift , there can be water and life
A. Venus
B. Mars
C. Europa

2. THE MILKY WAY
(1) 100 planets outside Solar System
(2) HST is a strong assurance for questing RIFT STARS

3. EXTERNAL GALAXY
(1) Limit and infinite about Universe
(2) Pessimism and optimism about life
BIBLIOGRAPHY

CHAPTER Ⅴ
HUMAN GREAT EXPEDITION

1. DESTINY OF THE EARTH
(1) Impact
(2) Sear
(3) Scorch
(4) Frost

2. SOME DIFFICULTIES FOR INTERSTELLAR EXPEDITION
(1) Space fragments
(2) Space navigation costing
(3) Vacuum danger
(4) Cosmic rays
(5) Osteoporosis
(6) Chalybeate overmuch
(7) Weightlessness
(8) Inappetence
(9) Sexual desire
(10) Time perception losing
(11) Space flight accidents
(12) Spacecraft engine refrigeration

3. THE LAST GREAT EXPLORATION OF HUMAN
(1) Green skin
(2) Interstellar cloning
BIBLIOGRAPHY

CONCLUDING REMARKS
BIBLIOGRAPHY

APPENDIX
Sun Tianxi’s investigative history during past 30 years
BIBLIOGRAPHY

INDEX

COLOUR PAGES

4. There should be some fossils of Martian living beings within Valles Marineris. They might be buried in Martian dust now, I think

Sincerely yours,

Tianxi Sun
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

Launch window
2006-Apr-16, 07:49 AM
You've got huge knowledge on this subject but I'm sure there is no need to worry about this because NASA's Phoenix isn't a life finding mission ( well....I think it isn't )

Cugel
2006-Apr-16, 01:02 PM
It's kind of difficult to judge your ideas on a content listing alone. To link the origin of mankind with rift valleys seems quite logical and even factual to me. I'm not so sure about the origin of life itself, which seems to be a completely different subject all together (a chemical issue, where the origin of mankind seems to be more a social issue). Unfortunately, I do not understand what you mean with 'Rift Stars'. Could you elaborate a bit on this?

BTW, your list of 'SOME DIFFICULTIES FOR INTERSTELLAR EXPEDITION' is missing a corner piece: DISTANCE. For instance, I fail to see how sexual appetite can be a problem when the journey will take 40.000 years or so.
What do you suggest? 40.000 years without sex? Man, count me out!

sun45114
2006-Apr-16, 02:27 PM
By 'Rift Star' is meant some planets and moons that possess its rift valleys, such as Venus, Mars and Europa.

Cugel
2006-Apr-16, 04:32 PM
Thanks, I got confused by 'Star' in that. I have another question. If rift valleys are indeed the place where life started, does your theory provide a mechanism for how this happened? In other words, does it answer the 'how' question and not just the 'where'?

sun45114
2006-Apr-17, 03:25 AM
Without plate breaking, there would be no sea floor spreading; and without sea floor spreading, there would be no continental drift. Therefore, it might be a great significance to research breaking of plate.

The hypothesis of plate breaking (Sun Tianxi, 1983, 1984, 1987 [3,6,7]) considered that the greatest worldwide plate breakings were mainly concentrated at the ends of Lower Proterozoic Subera (about 2 000 million years ago), Triassic Period (about 190 million years ago) and Eogene Period (about 40 million years ago), forming the Pacific Ocean, the Atlantic Ocean, and a great number of continental rift valleys and marginal seas respectively.

Many researches [1] have pointed out that the most ancient rift valleys in Earth’s lithosphere arose 2 000 million years ago; Moreover, in Mesozoic Era and Tertiary Period, breakings of plates were brisk particularly. This conclusion seems to conform to mine above mentioned in the respect of time.

The author (Sun Tianxi, 1987, 1988) [7,8] noticed that biological evolution was in close relationship with plate breaking (Table 1-2), noticed that sulphurvorous Monera were coincident to oceanic ridges just the same in regions [9] and noticed that the birthplaces of dinosaurs and humans were rather identical with continental rift valleys in distribution [10,11].

And then the author put forward a new boundary supposition that plate breaking hold the control over the macrocosmic changes in living things: just as ultraviolet radiation can make the cell body suddenly change, the stimulation as greatest and strongest on the Earth as plate breaking, possibly could lead the biological system to a macroscopically mutation, so as to be possible for rift valley systems (oceanic ridges and/or continental rift valleys) resulted from plate breaking to become the earliest birth places where the new genus, the new order, even the new phylum of living things were first produced.

Moreover, the author also noticed that the plate breaking could exert a conclusive influence on species’ evolution rate. During the three periods of plate breaking above, the evolution of species went on fast and with sudden changes; but out of the three periods of plate breaking slowly and gradually (Table 1-3) [8], which Charles Darwin’s Evolutionism had explained.

In the biosphere, macroscopically the evolution and extinction at the high level (such as class, order and family) were controlled by the three plate breakings above mentioned in Table 1-2; however, the biological extinctions out of the three breakings of plates, the level would be much lower (such as genus or species), without any great action. Prof. Goold, an American scientist, also named them “the extinction in ordinary geological periods” [12]. In fact, the lower level extinction events in Northern China have just been occurred at least 7 times for 1. 8 million years [12].

:mad: FILE ATTACHMENT: 'Table 1-2' and ' (Table 1-3)'

Van Rijn
2006-Apr-17, 06:31 AM
2. There is no rift valley on our Moon. Therefore, there couldn’t exist any water ice there. The impacting to the southern pole of the Moon in 1999 has testified it. The future impacting of LRO will testify it again! I suggest that NASA should declare with clear and open what’s lurking within permanently darkened craters after the impacting in 2008.


I repeat my question here:

http://www.bautforum.com/showpost.php?p=725762&postcount=5

Please explain this. What does a rift valley have to do with the presence or absence of water on the moon?

sun45114
2006-Apr-17, 08:18 AM
Dear Dr.Van Rijn:

Please read my book titled RIFT EVOLUTIONISM,if you interest this problem so much.

My this book has about 300 pages (in Chinese Vension).
Sichuan Science and Technology Publishing House(Chengdu, China) published it in 2004. ISBN: 7-5364-5411-2 (in Chinese).

Now, Chinese has become an international language.

The Website of buying RIFT EVOLUTIONISM are:

1. http://www.xinzhi.com.cn/research.asp
2. http://www.welan.com/html/07/84007.Html
3. http://www.zgcbb.com/product.asp?id=753645411
4. http://www.xinzhi.com.cn/book.asp?id=357640
5. http://www.hanlin.com/program/bookdetail.asp?bookid=7536454112
6. http://xinxin.6688.com/product/books/detail.aspx?sn=380910
7. http://www.dushu.com/bbook129905.shtml
8. http://www.gzbookcenter.com/search/search.jsp?range=&productName=%C1%D1%B9%C8%BD%F8%BB%AF%C2%DB&imageField.x=29&imageField.y=10
9. http://www.hanlin.com/program/bookdetail.asp?bookid=7536454112
10. http://www.hantang2000.com/BookStore/ListBook.asp?SearchType=OR&Name=%C1%D1%B9%C8%BD%F8%BB%AF%C2%DB&Publisher=%C1%D1%B9%C8%BD%F8%BB%AF%C2%DB&Author=%C1%D1%B9%C8%BD%F8%BB%AF%C2%DB&ISBN=%C1%D1%B9%C8%BD%F8%BB%AF%C2%DB
11. http://www.hhhbook.com/sub10-1.jsp?page=4&id=15#

Sincerely yours,

Tianxi Sun
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

Van Rijn
2006-Apr-17, 09:00 AM
Dear Dr.Van Rijn:

Please read my book titled RIFT EVOLUTIONISM,if you interest this problem so much.


First, "Van Rijn" will do.

Second, you made a claim in more than one thread that we would not find water on the moon because of the lack of a rift valley. You were asked to explain the reasoning behind your claim. Rather than doing so, you have advertised your book. I'm not a moderator, but generally, stating a claim and then saying "Buy the book" (in whatever language) when questioned is not looked on favorably on this forum.

So, do you have any explanation for your claim? Are you willing to defend it in any way here? I see no association between a rift valley and the presence or lack of water on the moon.

Arneb
2006-Apr-17, 11:24 AM
Yes, it would be nice to have some substantiation for a change. Sun, very few people here will buy the book, even among the minority here who do speak Chinese. Saying "it's all in the book, so buy it and youl'l know" will not cut any ice here.

Any scientist worth his money can make a concise summary of his claims, the evidence that supports it, and how he arrived at his conclusions. Every scientific text can be summarized. So please do that for us.

Saying that to read a book in Chinese should be no problem because Chinese is now "an international language" is nonsense. You know full well that a very small porportion of westerners speak Chinese, and you won't help your argument by saying it's all our own fault if we can't follow you.

So where, please, is the beef?

antoniseb
2006-Apr-17, 02:44 PM
Hi Sun45114,

You are pretty new here, so in this case, I am letting you off with a warning. Please don't advertise your book here again.

sun45114
2006-Apr-17, 03:00 PM
Dear "Van Rijn":

1. We are the contracting parties on "water on Moon".
you said:"There are some shaded craters at the pole that may contain water as ice and in rock, deposited by comet impacts, and there is some evidence for the presence of a limited amount of water. "; and I said:"there couldn’t exist any water ice there".

2. Your basis is "deposited by comet impacts"; and mine is "there is no rift valley on our Moon".

3. Then, you ask me why and how. However, why don't you first explain a self-contradictory in your theory?

It is very universal that stars including planets and moons were/are undergone a lot of impacting by comets. According to your theory, there should be some amount of water within almost all stars, except our Sun. But, two facts are: (1) On 1994 July 16-22, over twenty fragments of comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 collided with the planet Jupiter. And its result? Did it find any water on the Jupiter, even a bit? (2) On July 31, 1999, NASA's Lunar Prospector spacecraft dived into a permanently shadowed crater near the Moon's south pole. And its result? Did it find water on our Moon? even a bit either?

What interpretation would you put on them?

4. Of course, I'll explain for my views later with greatly honoured, although it is hard to explain in a few words (just for this reason and for details, I spoke of my book).

5. Out of goodwill, I suggested you to read my book. In fact, for supporting China's publishing cause, I have abstained my royalty of RIFT EVOLUTIONISM (Chinese simplified version). So, there exists no problem of so-called "advertised your book". I'm sorry to overstimate your lever in mastering Chinese language.

6. The Discussion between scientists ought to be done with the rational and having poise, but with imperious bearing.

Sincerely yours,

Tianxi Sun
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

Arneb
2006-Apr-17, 03:33 PM
This won't wash. YOU stated there CAN be no water on moon for lack of a rift valley.

YOU will have to substantiate that claim. Van Rijn's suggestion that water from comet impacts on the South Lunar pole could have survived is a fairly standard and often-heard hypothesis which was not disproved by the impact experiment of Lunar Prospector (that was only unsuccessful under suboptimal conditionsl, which happens).

Besides, the Jupiter argument is useless. Jupiter is a gas giant, and the notion of Jupiter having rift valleys is patently nonsense. It's like saying "our Sun cant't have water because there are no rift valleys on it. And, did SOHO find rift valleys? Did it find water? No? You see, that's why I am right".

Some (http://www.badastronomy.com/bitesize/lp_crash.html) substance (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/exploration/main/index.html), please (http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Dec96/IceonMoon.html). (Preferably in a form that most members on this forum can come by and understand).

sun45114
2006-Apr-18, 11:59 AM
Rift valley should be “the Garden of Eden” for living things, should be the expert “component” that bred life in Earth. Life must come from rift valleys. The demonstrations as following would be too numerous to mention:

l Organisms emerged firstly in East African Rift Valleys —— Aids Virus (Zaire and Uganda) [27], West Nile Virus (Egypt) [28], Rift Fever (Kenya) [29], Ebola Bleeding Fever (Zaire) [30], Callichthyidae of new species (Lake of Victoria) [31], ShiShi Fly (east Africa) [32], zebra (east Africa) [32], Humans in every his development stages except Sivapithecus and Australopithecus [10] including the oldest tools [33], the earliest epigraphs [34] and the most original alphabet characters [35] even the most ancient human’s remains died by cancer [36]. In addition, the ordinary media also reported that there were many birthplaces of species in East African Rift Valleys as follows: Lean-dead Virus (Uganda), coffee (Ethiopia), white crow (Tanzania), short elephant (east Africa), whale having legs (Egypt), blind fly and wiggler fly (Egypt and Uganda); furthermore, the earliest humans’ cook stove, cheeses, “source signal ”, write material and the first archaic cities having 9 thousand years.

l Organisms emerged firstly in Aden Rift Valley —— the oldest terrestrial plant (Oman) [37], monitor of new species (Yemen) [38]. Besides, the ordinary media reported that there were many birthplaces of species in Aden Rifts as follows: forest (Saudi Arabia), mammoth (Oman).

l Organisms emerged firstly in Jordan Rift Valley —— the oldest hieroglyph [39], clay brick and crockery [40], village [40], memento [40], factitious plant and domestic animal [40], menu [41], the source of three main religions [42] and the West civilization [43] even the primary colonial movement [40] all originated there. Furthermore, the ordinary media reported that the earliest language and the most ancient zymotechnics of beer were all found in Jordan Rift Valley.

l Organisms emerged firstly in West Rift Valley of Northern America —— calcified ultramicroplankton (west basin in Northern America) [44], green gene (Idaho [45]), the oldest DNA record (Idaho) [46], tadpoles having eight back legs (California) [47], dinosaur (Arizona) [48] and its embryo (Utah) [49], fish living boiling spring (Nevada) [50], turkey (Texas) [51], bird (Texas) [52], horse (Wyoming) [53], Mammal (Arizona and New Mexico) [54,55], Mammal having placenta (Montana) [56], Primate (Wyoming) [57], Indian (for details, see Chapter Ⅲ) [58,59], lentoid oily biogenic reef [60] and scorpion in seawater (British Columbia of Canada) [61].

l Organisms emerged firstly in East Triassic Rift Valley of Northern America —— star rat (eastern area in Northern America) [62], hexapodus arthropod (Pennsylvania) [63], Mammal having murderous teeth (Virginia) [64] and Docodonta elephant (New York State) [65]. Besides, the ordinary media reported that the oldest digestive germ (Ohio) and insect (New York State) were found there.

l Organisms emerged firstly in West Rift Valley of Southern America ——potato(Peru) [66*],one of the oldest dinosaurs [67] (Chile), Temuco dinosaur [68] (Chile), alpaca and vicuna (Andes Mountain) [69], edentate (Argentina) [70], Callicebus bernhardi and Callicebus stephennashi (Andes Mountain) [71]. Moreover, the ordinary media reported that the oldest cotton was in Peru and the existent oldest forest is in Chile.

l Organisms emerged firstly in Baikal Rift Valley —— rare new species that the female fish propagates directly its fries (Lake of Baikal) [72]. Lake of Baikal that locates in Baikal Rift Valley is called as Russia’s Galapagos, which might have the most abundant species in the world: over 1 000 kinds of hydrophytes, 56 kinds of fishes, over 300 kinds of protozoon and a lot of unstudied intact communities. Of which, Baikal planaria that a kind of colorized worms as long as 30 centimeters and a kind of seals that only can live in fresh water [73] might be the most characteristic.

l Organisms emerged firstly in Panxi Rift Valleys —— angiosperm (Yunnan Province in China) [74], dry-heat-valley plants (Yuanmou Valley) [75], blind bullhead (Gejiu city, Yunnan Province) [76], three-bevel beast (Zigong city, Sichuan Province) [77], the oldest fossil of dinosaur’s skin (Zigong city, Sichuan Province) [78], panda (Lufeng county, Yunnan Province ) [79,80], new kind of rabbits (the boundary between Laos and Viet Nam) [81],vertebrate (Yunnan Province) [82], Ramapithecus (for details, see Chapter Ⅲ) [83], Chengjiang Biocenosis which was called as one of the most breathtaking discovers in the 20th century and an irrefutable evidence of Cambrian Life Explosion 500~600 million years ago (Chengjiang county, Yunnan Province) [84], and Fuxianhuiaprotensa (Fig. 1-7) [85] found in Chengjiang county of Panxi Rift Valley, which was the ancestor of insects. Moreover, the ordinary media reported that the birthplaces of the following species were found in Panxi Rift Valleys: sea lily (8 genera and 39 species) in west Yunnan province, flaring birds (Jinfushan Mountain between Sichuan and Guizhou Provinces), bamboo (the central and southern parts of Yunnan Province) and antelopeoid “ox” (the boundary between Laos and Viet Nam).

l Organisms emerged firstly in Galapagos oceanic ridge —— 250 kinds of distinctive high plants (Galapagos Islands) [86], sea lizard (Galapagos Islands) [86], chameleonic fish (Galapagos Islands) [87], and a seabed worm Vestimentiferen which is the 3rd known illustration that could form a new phylum (Galapagos oceanic ridge) [88].

l Organisms emerged firstly in hydrothermal vents of oceanic ridges — sulphurvorous Monera — Palæo-bacterium [89].



Tianxi Sun
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

aurora
2006-Apr-19, 02:06 AM
You are not proposing that native Americans arose because of a rift in North America, are you?

sun45114
2006-Apr-19, 06:14 AM
Dear aurora:

As almost everyone knows, Archaeologists and Anthropologists usually consider that the remote ancestors of the Red Indian entered America from Asia through the Bering Straits 15,000-20,000 years ago, no matter how by boat across the Bering Sea or by foot through a so-called land bridge which it's said once linked up Asia and north America.

However, I considered that the classical theory above should be wrong.

I proposed a new another hypotheses that the American Indian should be originated from the Rift Valleys of America, based on the principles of Rift Evolutionism(see Chapter III), proved from 6 fields, just as mentioned TABLE OF CONTENTS by #11.

Sincerely yours,

Tianxi Sun
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

Lianachan
2006-Apr-19, 06:42 AM
Thread moved from Astronomy to Space Exploration.

This thread is shaping up to be quite ATM....

Van Rijn
2006-Apr-19, 08:29 AM
One would suspect. Although I'm not sure if most of this is even ATM astronomy. Of course, we have that too, with the water claims about the moon. And, Jupiter does have water, it has been detected. Not that I understand the relevance of a gas giant to the moon or rift valleys.

sun45114
2006-Apr-19, 08:33 AM
Dear aurora:

As almost everyone knows, Archaeologists and Anthropologists usually consider that the remote ancestors of the Red Indian entered America from Asia through the Bering Straits 15,000-20,000 years ago, no matter how by boat across the Bering Sea or by foot through a so-called land bridge which it's said once linked up Asia and north America.

However, I considered that the classical theory above should be wrong.

I proposed a new another hypotheses that the American Indian should be originated from the Rift Valleys of America, based on the principles of Rift Evolutionism(see Chapter III), proved from 6 fields, just as mentioned TABLE OF CONTENTS by #11.

Sincerely yours,

Tianxi Sun
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

Van Rijn
2006-Apr-19, 08:45 AM
I proposed a new another hypotheses that the American Indian should be originated from the Rift Valleys of America, based on the principles of Rift Evolutionism(see Chapter III), proved from 6 fields, just as mentioned TABLE OF CONTENTS by #11.


So are you suggesting that American Indians evolved separately from other humans or perhaps arose spontaneously from rift valleys? From many lines of evidence this would seem to be quite impossible.

ChaosKnight
2006-Apr-19, 09:23 AM
Hi Sun. You have put forth an interesting theory. I'm particularly interested in Chapter 2 of your book. Could you please summarise it here?

And could you summarise your ideas on how the creation of rift valleys account for the accumulation or production of water? I'm interested in the mechanism.

sun45114
2006-Apr-19, 10:08 AM
Dear Arneb, Van Rijn and ChaosKnight:

Rift and Water

Concise summary:
Plate movement had necessarily happened on a planet if there exists rift valleys there. As the movement of plates dredged up rock from the depths of the planet and brought it backs down again, it could have transported both water and carbon dioxide. The recycled carbon dioxide may have generated, or at least helped sustain, a dense, carbon-rich atmosphere early in the history of the planet. This blanket of greenhouse gas could have warmed the planet to be humid…

Sincerely yours,

Tianxi Sun
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

ChaosKnight
2006-Apr-19, 10:50 AM
Hi Sun,

As i understand, rift valleys are caused by plate tectonic movements. They are large scale earth movements but do not always generate water. Please clarify the following:

1) Do you have any information that rift valleys always dredge up large bodies of water? ie the source of water is not from accumulation from rain or existing lakes, but from deep within the Earth.

2) As i understand, there are a number of lakes in the Great Rift Valley in Africa. These water bodies are result of accumulation after the geographical features are formed. Can you explain why the lakes in these valleys are more prone to forming life, as opposed to freshwater lakes/ seas that are located elsewhere?

3) Can you explain why the existance of carbon dioxide in rift valleys is more significant to the formation of life compared to other sources of carbon dioxide, e.g. from volcanos not within rift valleys?

sun45114
2006-Apr-19, 11:43 AM
As you can find out here: http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/science/objectives.php

Phoenix is not designed to look for life.

Dear Cugel:

Please see the website as follows:
http://www.spacetoday.org/SolSys/Mars/MarsExploration/MarsScout2007.html

The website said:
"A robot explorer named Phoenix will be launched by NASA in August 2007 to land and scout the high northern latitudes of Mars in May 2008.

The lander would touch down on terrain suspected of covering a vast reservoir of water ice just a foot beneath the surface. Phoenix would look for water in ice on and just beneath the surface and search the arctic soil for signs of life."

So, the main task of Phoenix should be indeed to search the Marian life!

Sincerely yours,

Tianxi Sun
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Apr-19, 02:14 PM
Hi ChaosKnight,

My meaning didn’t really get across. You have almost completely misconstrued what I said(#33).

Please read my "Concise summary"(#32) again carefully, thanks.

Please notice such a word "recycled".

Sincerely yours,

Tianxi Sun
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China

NEOWatcher
2006-Apr-19, 02:54 PM
Hi ChaosKnight,

My meaning didn’t really get across. You have almost completely misconstrued what I said(#33).

WHY?
This comment is almost an insult without a reason why it's misunderstood.


Please read my "Concise summary"(#32) again carefully, thanks.

If you think something was misunderstood, then reading again will not clear it up, unless it is explained what was misunderstood.

Besides, that's what questions are for... to clear up the misunderstandings. ChaosKnight has asked a question to try to understand what you say. You did not answer, you just said he's wrong without explaination.

teddyv
2006-Apr-19, 05:15 PM
Sun,

I still don't quite understand what you mean by a "star" in the context of rifts. My guess is you may be referring to a 'triple junction' which is roughly a star pattern (i.e. Red Sea, African Rift Valley, and Gulf of Aden).

Also what/where is the rift valley(s) in North America? What sort of age are you suggesting? The African Rift Valley is still active and fairly young (geologically).

Cugel
2006-Apr-19, 08:31 PM
Dear Cugel:

Please see the website as follows:
http://www.spacetoday.org/SolSys/Mars/MarsExploration/MarsScout2007.html

The website said:
"A robot explorer named Phoenix will be launched by NASA in August 2007 to land and scout the high northern latitudes of Mars in May 2008.

The lander would touch down on terrain suspected of covering a vast reservoir of water ice just a foot beneath the surface. Phoenix would look for water in ice on and just beneath the surface and search the arctic soil for signs of life."

So, the main task of Phoenix should be indeed to search the Marian life!

Sincerely yours,

Tianxi Sun
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn


Well OK.... It has a camera so I guess any passing herd of elephants wouldn't go unnoticed. However, none of the other science instruments are geared toward looking for life and they actually couldn't detect if it were s(h)itting on top of it. It can't detect isotopic ratios nor can it detect chirality. Maybe it could snif a bit of methane but you couldn't tell if that was of biological origin or otherwise. Its main task is to do chemical analysis of soil samples. Not to look for life.

In a few years (2010) we will have a Mars rover called Mars Science Lab (MSL). This machine will be capable of looking for life and probably will land in a more promissing location. Maybe even a valley?!

ToSeek
2006-Apr-19, 08:56 PM
NASA would definitely love to plunk a rover down right in the middle of Valles Marineris. But it's a matter of having the technology to do so with confidence of success. The EDL approach used for the rovers had a footprint that covered some dangerous areas, plus it couldn't handle the strong winds that blow through the valley.

aurora
2006-Apr-20, 01:08 AM
I proposed a new another hypotheses that the American Indian should be originated from the Rift Valleys of America, based on the principles of Rift Evolutionism(see Chapter III), proved from 6 fields, just as mentioned TABLE OF CONTENTS by #11.


There is a major problem with your theory, that being that it completely ignores and disagrees with DNA evidence.

aurora
2006-Apr-20, 01:12 AM
Dear Arneb, Van Rijn and ChaosKnight:

Rift and Water

Concise summary:
Plate movement had necessarily happened on a planet if there exists rift valleys there. As the movement of plates dredged up rock from the depths of the planet and brought it backs down again, it could have transported both water and carbon dioxide. The recycled carbon dioxide may have generated, or at least helped sustain, a dense, carbon-rich atmosphere early in the history of the planet. This blanket of greenhouse gas could have warmed the planet to be humid…

Sincerely yours,

Tianxi Sun
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

Seems to me that you are confusing rift valleys with subduction zones and the volcanism that is associated with them. In the US, this would be the Cascade Range where volcanism is caused by offshore subduction. This volcanism is where some elements are being recycled back to the surface after having been subducted.

This is NOT the same thing as a rift valley, which is where plates are moving apart.

trinitree88
2006-Apr-20, 01:39 AM
There is a major problem with your theory, that being that it completely ignores and disagrees with DNA evidence.

Aurora. Agreed. The recent Nova program tracing the Y chromosome through the genetic pools of the world was quite compelling. There is the further evidence from the etymology of languages, pointing pretty much to the same story from an independent line of reasoning. While few dispute the role of Olduvai Gorge in anthropology...carrying that to the n th degree might not be too true beyond Terra Firma.

sun45114
2006-Apr-20, 04:12 AM
I still don't quite understand what you mean by a "star" in the context of rifts. My guess is you may be referring to a 'triple junction' which is roughly a star pattern (i.e. Red Sea, African Rift Valley, and Gulf of Aden).

Hi, teddyv:

In the dictionary, by "star" is meant "any one of the bodies seen in the sky at night as distant points of light". In my book, by "star" is meant planets and Moons.

Sincerely yours,

Tianxi Sun
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

ChaosKnight
2006-Apr-20, 05:12 AM
Hi Sun, i don't think i misunderstood anything. I'll rephrase my question. With reference to this:


Dear Arneb, Van Rijn and ChaosKnight:

Rift and Water

Concise summary:
Plate movement had necessarily happened on a planet if there exists rift valleys there. As the movement of plates dredged up rock from the depths of the planet and brought it backs down again, it could have transported both water and carbon dioxide. The recycled carbon dioxide may have generated, or at least helped sustain, a dense, carbon-rich atmosphere early in the history of the planet. This blanket of greenhouse gas could have warmed the planet to be humid…

Sincerely yours,

Tianxi Sun
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

Question 1:

I am asking if you have evidence that plate movement have dredged up large amounts of water from the earth, i.e. the water is not accumulated over time due to the low ground formed by tectonic movements, but is transported from the depth of the earth. This is what you claimed. Is there evidence to support it?

Question 2:

If the conditions are such that:
1. Plate tectonic movements caused a rift valley.
2. Water is present, and so is carbon dioxide.

Why are the chances of life forming in the above region higher than a region that is, for example

1. Volcanic activity cause the release of carbon dioxide
2. Near the sea or a lake with freshwater
3. In the absence of a rift valley
e.g. the Hawaiian Islands?

sun45114
2006-Apr-20, 06:30 AM
Also what/where is the rift valley(s) in North America? What sort of age are you suggesting? The African Rift Valley is still active and fairly young (geologically).

Hi teddyv,

There exists two continental rift valleys in North America:

1. The Western Rift Valley System (also call it after "Basin and Mountain Province"). It's said that the rifts might start in "the end of Miocene Epoch", i.e., about 20-30 million year ago,very young;

2. The Eastern Triassic Rift Valley. It's said the rift start from Triassic Period, i.e., about 190-200 million year ago.

Sincerely,

Tianxi Sun

sun45114
2006-Apr-20, 06:58 AM
It can't detect isotopic ratios nor can it detect chirality.

Dear Cugel,

What is your mean by 'chirality'? I can't look it up in my dictionary.

Tianxi Sun

sun45114
2006-Apr-20, 07:16 AM
It would be an interesting question as to whether it's possible to land Phoenix safely within the Valles Marineris. That's the reason the rovers didn't land there - the walls were too close and the winds were too high.

Dear ToSeek,

Would you please tell me how many meters the Valles Marineris' width is? And its winds velocity? Thank you.

Tianxi Sun

Cugel
2006-Apr-20, 09:02 AM
Dear Cugel,

What is your mean by 'chirality'? I can't look it up in my dictionary.

Tianxi Sun

It's the spatial orientation of complex molecules like amino acids.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirality_%28chemistry%29

It happens that living creatures favor a particular brand of chirality, where non-living systems will usually do not. (For unknown reasons as far as I know) It is considered a very strong bio-indicator and can be detected with very small equipment (chips). It is something mission management don't want on their Mars lander because it is garanteed to find nothing. Which would count as a negative result (with the general public and decision makers) and that of course is very bad. For funding in particular. Getting these Mars missions funded is the main reason why everybody is yelling and screaming how their mission is looking for life. In reality you can't do that because it's not there and you just want to do proper science like geology, climate research and chemical makeup.

sun45114
2006-Apr-20, 09:29 AM
In a few years (2010) we will have a Mars rover called Mars Science Lab (MSL). This machine will be capable of looking for life and probably will land in a more promissing location. Maybe even a valley?!

Dear Cugel,

1. Your message is a great encouragement to me. I wish the Mars Science Lab (MSL) great success!

2. Moreover, thank you very much for your advice about 'chirality' just now.

Tianxi Sun

sun45114
2006-Apr-20, 02:24 PM
There is a major problem with your theory, that being that it completely ignores and disagrees with DNA evidence.


Hi aurora,

Could you please explain it in detail? And what evidence?Thanks you.

Tianxi Sun

ToSeek
2006-Apr-20, 03:10 PM
Dear ToSeek,

Would you please tell me how many meters the Valles Marineris' width is? And its winds velocity? Thank you.

Tianxi Sun

Valles Marineris is about 200 kilometers wide, though this varies a lot. There's also a lot of rough terrain.

Winds are on the order of 25 m/sec horizontally and can be up to 5 m/sec vertically. The combination of the wind and terrain eliminated Melas Chasma as a possible landing site, despite one Mars geologist calling it "the best landing site on Mars."

I've appended some links you might find of interest.

Proposed Melas Chasma landing site (http://marsoweb.nas.nasa.gov/landingsites/mer2003/topsites/final/Melas/maps/Melas_small.jpg)

Meteorology of proposed Mars Exploration Rover landing sites (http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2003/2003JE002064.shtml)

Mars Rover Landing Site Sweet Spots Not So Sweet (http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/mars_landing_sites_020315.html)

Mars Rover Landing Spots - Blowing In The Wind (http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/mars_rovers_020423-1.html)

sun45114
2006-Apr-20, 04:20 PM
[QUOTE=ToSeek]Valles Marineris is about 200 kilometers wide, though this varies a lot. There's also a lot of rough terrain.
Winds are on the order of 25 m/sec horizontally and can be up to 5 m/sec vertically. The combination of the wind and terrain eliminated Melas Chasma as a possible landing site, despite one Mars geologist calling it "the best landing site on Mars."
I've appended some links you might find of interest.
[QUOTE]

Dear ToSeek,

Very thanks for your help.

Fossils of Martian Organisms might be on the terraces within Valles Marineris if there exists life in Mars, I think.
So, landing Valles Marineris' terraces to unearth Martian fossils should be the best strategic decision, and most directly! Please pass on this view to NASA.

Thank you!

Tianxi Sun

ToSeek
2006-Apr-20, 06:04 PM
There's a list of potential MSL landing sites (and other information) linked to from this page (http://marsoweb.nas.nasa.gov/landingsites/). I count at least four candidates in Valles Marineris. I daresay it will come down more to engineering constraints than scientific ones, as was the case with the rovers.

I can't pretend to have any influence on such matters.

aurora
2006-Apr-21, 01:31 AM
Hi aurora,

Could you please explain it in detail? And what evidence?Thanks you.

Tianxi Sun

See message #42 in this thread. The Native Americans are related to other humans, they did not originate in a rift valley in the Americas.

Also, note that you are proposing that rifts (or failed rifts) that are tens or hundreds of millions of years old somehow caused human beings to originate in the Americas, when there is no evidence of human occupation before roughly 10,000 years. That's a pretty big gap you have to explain away.

If this point in your book has such an obvious flaw, I daresay that there are many more problems with what you have proposed.

Van Rijn
2006-Apr-21, 04:09 AM
See message #42 in this thread. The Native Americans are related to other humans, they did not originate in a rift valley in the Americas.


Far more than "related." The genetic differences between all humans is tiny. There is simply no way that any humans developed through a parallel evolutionary path.

sun45114
2006-Apr-21, 06:43 AM
The recent Nova program tracing the Y chromosome through the genetic pools of the world was quite compelling.

Hi trinitree88 and aurora,

Please explain the facts as follows:

1. Bw54 is used to be called "the Yellow's Antigen".But,
BW54 of the American Indians is just equal to zero. By contrast, BW54 of the Chinese is 4.71 and of the Japanese7.3;
2. As for Gene B of blood-type, it's extinct in the American Indians whereas universal in the Asian.

Tianxi Sun

sun45114
2006-Apr-21, 06:49 AM
The genetic differences between all humans is tiny. There is simply no way that any humans developed through a parallel evolutionary path.

Hi Van Rijn,

Please explain the specific characteristics of Ainu.

Tianxi Sun

Van Rijn
2006-Apr-21, 07:40 AM
Hi Van Rijn,

Please explain the specific characteristics of Ainu.

Tianxi Sun

Trivial genetic variation within the human population. Genetically, humans are a very homogeneous species. I would recommend you study up on genetics, evolution, and paleontology. I think you would be surprised.

ChaosKnight
2006-Apr-21, 08:06 AM
Hi Sun, you have evaded my questions so far. Let me ask them for the 3rd time.

Your core idea is that rift valleys are THE place for life to form.

Rift valleys is where water is dredged up. Do you have evidence of this?

What advantage does rift valleys have over other geological features that have water/carbon dioxide that makes it more suitable for life to form?

aurora
2006-Apr-21, 12:27 PM
Hi Sun, you have evaded my questions so far. Let me ask them for the 3rd time.

Your core idea is that rift valleys are THE place for life to form.

Rift valleys is where water is dredged up. Do you have evidence of this?

What advantage does rift valleys have over other geological features that have water/carbon dioxide that makes it more suitable for life to form?

And, explain how a 20 million year old failed rift could cause humans to appear 20 million years later.

sun45114
2006-Apr-21, 12:30 PM
Hi Sun, you have evaded my questions so far. Let me ask them for the 3rd time.


Hi ChaosKnight,

Please excuse me for my answer late. Wait some days please, l'm handling the question about American Indian.

aurora
2006-Apr-21, 12:31 PM
Trivial genetic variation within the human population. Genetically, humans are a very homogeneous species. I would recommend you study up on genetics, evolution, and paleontology. I think you would be surprised.

for example,

http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/johanson.html

akula
2006-Apr-21, 01:18 PM
... Also, note that you are proposing that rifts (or failed rifts) that are tens or hundreds of millions of years old somehow caused human beings to originate in the Americas, when there is no evidence of human occupation before roughly 10,000 years. That's a pretty big gap you have to explain away.


Read this a little while back,
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20050704/footprints.html

If these really turn out to be footprints that are 40,000 years old, then it could be interesting, but it's still a big gap to explain. Also, at the bottom it refers to migrations into the Americas, not people that were already there.

sun45114
2006-Apr-21, 01:48 PM
Read this a little while back,
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20050704/footprints.html
If these really turn out to be footprints that are 40,000 years old, then it could be interesting, but it's still a big gap to explain. Also, at the bottom it refers to migrations into the Americas, not people that were already there.

Hi akula,

Thank you for your website. However, the website isn't complete. Could you please furnish a complete website? Thank you very much!

Arneb
2006-Apr-21, 02:26 PM
sun, don't type it into your browser, just click on it and the complete website will appear-

If you insist...
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20050704/footprints.html

sun45114
2006-Apr-21, 03:05 PM
for example,

http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/johanson.html

Hi aurora,

Yes, East African Rift Valleys was the main source place of Humans. As early as 1988, my thesis had pointed it.
My book RIFT EVOLUTIONISM(2001,2004) expounded and proved it systematically. Please see Chapter III(#11).

The basic divergence between us is that:

You consider Humans originated only from Africa, whereas I maintain several Human races should be originated from several rift valleys in each part of the world respectively. For example, the Chinese was originated from Panxi Rifts in China and the American Indian originated from America Rift Valleys.

(1). Sun Tianxi, 1988. Living things and rift valleys. Nature journal, Shanghai, China, 6:430-434 (in Chinese).
(2). Sun Tianxi, 2001. Rift Evolutionism (Chinese traditional version). Hong Kong Tranfor Publishing Co. Limited, Hong Kong. ISBN: 962-85541-5-8 (in Chinese)
(3).Sun Tianxi, 2004. Rift Evolutionism (Chinese simplified version). Sichuan Science and Technology Publishing House, Chengdu, China. ISBN: 7-5364-5411-2 (in Chinese).

Arneb
2006-Apr-21, 04:31 PM
Again, again, again the questions: Why? How? From which facts (geology, genetics, paleontology, what have you)?

All you do is give us names of lifeforms saying that you came to the conclusion they have to originate from rift valleys. There is no reasoning, no reference to publicly obtainable facts, nothing.

"I maintain", "I concluded", "for example, the Chinese originated from Panxi rift valley" - this is completely useless handwaiving, without any merit with regard to your thesis.

When are you going to present us with anything worth consideration?

ToSeek
2006-Apr-21, 06:43 PM
Thread moved from Space Exploration to ATM, since the discussion has moved away from what NASA should do.

Gillianren
2006-Apr-21, 07:11 PM
You consider Humans originated only from Africa, whereas I maintain several Human races should be originated from several rift valleys in each part of the world respectively. For example, the Chinese was originated from Panxi Rifts in China and the American Indian originated from America Rift Valleys.

Well, you know, it's not just us considering that. It's the weight of evidence, really. The fossil record, DNA studies, and all sorts of things that you really should look into do, in fact, prove you wrong on this one.

antoniseb
2006-Apr-21, 07:17 PM
Thread moved from Space Exploration to ATM, since the discussion has moved away from what NASA should do.

Yes, thanks. It was getting impossible to handle this in a forum where we stick to mainstream issues. The difficulty here is that now sun45114 will need to defend his ideas in a more structured way, and may not be able to.

Sun45114, in this section you may post links to english language versions of your book chapters if you have them, but you will be asked questions and you mst either defend your position or say you don't know, or have changed your mind. In the event that you don't or can't we will close the thread and topic in general.

Van Rijn
2006-Apr-21, 08:41 PM
You consider Humans originated only from Africa, whereas I maintain several Human races should be originated from several rift valleys in each part of the world respectively. For example, the Chinese was originated from Panxi Rifts in China and the American Indian originated from America Rift Valleys.


When do you think this happened? How long ago do you think humans arose in the Americas, China, etc.?

ChaosKnight
2006-Apr-22, 04:55 AM
Hi ChaosKnight,

Please excuse me for my answer late. Wait some days please, l'm handling the question about American Indian.

Hi Sun, thanks. I await your answer.
In the meantime, you may want to google Mitochondria Eve.

sun45114
2006-Apr-22, 06:21 AM
Why so impulsive?!

Science is a system, which permits no impulse.

"the discussion has moved away from what NASA should do" because of someone closely asking such questions away from what NASA should do.

Now, I'll go back the area (Mars and Moon)what NASA should do. What shall you do?

Ok?!

sun45114
2006-Apr-22, 07:41 AM
Now that one of the goals of Mars landers is to seek Mars life, it should land onto Mars’ rift valley directly. If there is some kind of lives on Mars, the Martian living beings should be first appeared in the area of the rift valley, such as Valles Marineris. So, I suggest that the landing site of Phoenix should be onto Valles Marineris to unearth possible Martian fossils, which may locate on terraces within valley.

Tianxi Sun
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun4514@yahoo.com.cn

cjl
2006-Apr-22, 07:54 AM
You still have yet to show a shard of evidence as to WHY you think that life can only originate in rift valleys. You have explained many times that that is what you think, however we cannot take your word at face value unless you have some data or evidence to back it up.

sun45114
2006-Apr-22, 08:22 AM
you mst either defend your position or say you don't know, or have changed your mind.

Hi antoniseb,

Have you any evidence for supporting your criticism above?! when did I say "I don't know"? Which part showed "have changed your mind"?

Please answer this question!

sun45114
2006-Apr-22, 08:49 AM
Dear All,

I'll express for you about the mechanism of rift evolutionism in succession, because I must to expend a lot of time to translate my chapter II from Chinese into English.

Chapter II. MECHANISMS OF RIFT EVOLUTION

The former USSR scientist В. И. Вилнаский (1987) said that life might be created at the time when geological balance was lost(1); Other scientists of former USSR also considered that organic cells with X type structure were occurred only by some sharp physical changes within molecules(1). Moreover, V. E. Khain(1989)studied the possible connection between geotectonic actions and the life of Earth (2); and US geologist V. E. Courtillot(1990)pointed out that catastrophic volcanic activity might be a pivotal factor that caused life to make complex evolution(3). However, it was a pity that they all didn’t deeply research this field.
The author (Sun Tianxi, 1992) put forward a concept of “stimulated pregnancy”, to define a kind of unique process that life and its new species were originated firstly in the places of plate breaking (continental rift valleys and/or oceanic ridges) by a lot of strong and everlasting stimulations(4).
The author induces the mechanisms of “stimulated pregnancy” in rift valleys for following eight kinds: smashing reaction, vent reaction, nitrogen fixation, molybdenum enzyme, gene embedding, molecule oxygen, volcano pump and powerful magnetic field.

Tianxi Sun
Professorial senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

Maksutov
2006-Apr-22, 08:55 AM
The content of this thread as supplied by the OP appears to be mostly an imagined rift in the space-time continuum. Within this context I feel sorry for the geologist who coined the term "rift valley", which is a purely geological (as opposed to biological) expression, as well as Mary Leakey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Leakey), who was one of the first anthropologists to discover human predecessor remains in that part of Africa.

Too bad many forms of life developed in the ocean, which pretty much doesn't care about rift valleys.

But, the key point is that the OP seems to have confused the environmental origins of humanity with the environmental origins of life.

Just think, 225 million years ago, we Pangaeans wouldn't even be talking about such stuff.

Oh well, more unsupported speculation. It's the ATM forum, after all, therefore, based on past history, what would one expect?

sun45114
2006-Apr-22, 10:38 AM
Too bad many forms of life developed in the ocean, which pretty much doesn't care about rift valleys.


Hi Maksutov,

By a rift valley or a rift is meant a tension fracture zone with long extending and deep incising. It is a long and narrow fault trough caused by plate breaking. A rift system or a rift zone consists of some rifts by a certain pattern.

It's including continental rift valley(such as East African Rift valleys) and oceanic rift valley (such as mid-oceanic ridges).

* Organisms emerged firstly in Galapagos oceanic ridge —— 250 kinds of distinctive high plants (Galapagos Islands) [86], sea lizard (Galapagos Islands) [86], chameleonic fish (Galapagos Islands) [87], and a seabed worm Vestimentiferen which is the 3rd known illustration that could form a new phylum (Galapagos oceanic ridge) [88].
* Organisms emerged firstly in hydrothermal vents of oceanic ridges — sulphurvorous Monera — Palæo-bacterium [89].

ChaosKnight
2006-Apr-22, 11:07 AM
Hi Sun, i'm particularly interested in Ref [89], i.e.

"* Organisms emerged firstly in hydrothermal vents of oceanic ridges — sulphurvorous Monera — Palæo-bacterium [89]."

May i know which publication, author and year?

Maksutov
2006-Apr-22, 11:23 AM
Hi Maksutov,

By a rift valley or a rift is meant a tension fracture zone with long extending and deep incising. It is a long and narrow fault trough caused by plate breaking. A rift system or a rift zone consists of some rifts by a certain pattern.

It's including continental rift valley(such as East African Rift valleys) and oceanic rift valley (such as mid-oceanic ridges).

* Organisms emerged firstly in Galapagos oceanic ridge —— 250 kinds of distinctive high plants (Galapagos Islands) [86], sea lizard (Galapagos Islands) [86], chameleonic fish (Galapagos Islands) [87], and a seabed worm Vestimentiferen which is the 3rd known illustration that could form a new phylum (Galapagos oceanic ridge) [88].
* Organisms emerged firstly in hydrothermal vents of oceanic ridges — sulphurvorous Monera — Palæo-bacterium [89].If by "firstly" you mean these were the first organisms, then you really need to restudy the history of life on this planet.

Because certain unique varieties of life exist in and around geothermal vents and the biologically isolated Galapagos islands, doesn't mean that those areas are the points of origen of life on Earth.

Nice idea re the "rifts" but there's no evidence for it.

Personally, if I were of a certain demeanor, I'd tend to promote the mountains as the progeneitors of life. Those magnificent peaks lifting up into the air must have had a purpose other than to just amaze us and compell us to scale the, or is that part of the plan?

sun45114
2006-Apr-22, 12:33 PM
Hi Sun, i'm particularly interested in Ref [89], i.e.
"* Organisms emerged firstly in hydrothermal vents of oceanic ridges — sulphurvorous Monera — Palæo-bacterium [89]."
May i know which publication, author and year?

Hi ChaosKnight,

[89]. Haymon R M , MacDonald K C. American Scientist, 1985(73):441

sun45114
2006-Apr-22, 01:10 PM
If by "firstly" you mean these were the first organisms, then you really need to restudy the history of life on this planet.


Hi Maksutov,

You have completely misconstrued what I said!

For example,

1. * Organisms emerged firstly in hydrothermal vents of oceanic ridges — sulphurvorous Monera — Palæo-bacterium [89].

I mean that sulphurvorous Monera — Palæo-bacterium first appeared in hydrothermal vents of oceanic ridges ;

2. * Organisms emerged firstly in Galapagos oceanic ridge —— 250 kinds of distinctive high plants (Galapagos Islands) [86], sea lizard (Galapagos Islands) [86], chameleonic fish (Galapagos Islands) [87], and a seabed worm Vestimentiferen which is the 3rd known illustration that could form a new phylum (Galapagos oceanic ridge) [88].

I mean that 250 kinds of distinctive high plants, sea lizard, chameleonic fish and a seabed worm Vestimentiferen which is the 3rd known illustration that could form a new phylum all first appeared in Galapagos oceanic ridge.

...

Do you straighten your idea out now? !

Here, you should emulate Dr. ChaosKnight. He understands what I said above. Can't you really need to restudy English?

antoniseb
2006-Apr-22, 01:30 PM
Have you any evidence for supporting your criticism above?! when did I say "I don't know"? Which part showed "have changed your mind"?
Please answer this question!

You have misread my statement. I am not criticizing you. I am telling you that the Against The Mainstream section has special rules. I did not say that you have already said 'you don't know' or 'changed you mind'. I am only pointing those out as options you may use when answering future questions here.

I also advise you to take the time to read the rules of the forum.

Maksutov
2006-Apr-22, 02:39 PM
Hi sun45114,




Hi Maksutov,

You have completely misconstrued what I said! Not really. I just read what you wrote.
For example,

1. * Organisms emerged firstly in hydrothermal vents of oceanic ridges — sulphurvorous Monera — Palæo-bacterium [89].

I mean that sulphurvorous Monera — Palæo-bacterium first appeared in hydrothermal vents of oceanic ridges ;

2. * Organisms emerged firstly in Galapagos oceanic ridge —— 250 kinds of distinctive high plants (Galapagos Islands) [86], sea lizard (Galapagos Islands) [86], chameleonic fish (Galapagos Islands) [87], and a seabed worm Vestimentiferen which is the 3rd known illustration that could form a new phylum (Galapagos oceanic ridge) [88].

I mean that 250 kinds of distinctive high plants, sea lizard, chameleonic fish and a seabed worm Vestimentiferen which is the 3rd known illustration that could form a new phylum all first appeared in Galapagos oceanic ridge.

...

Do you straighten your idea out now? !Afraid not, my ideas remain within the same scientific methods as before.

Here, you should emulate Dr. ChaosKnight. He understands what I said above. Can't you really need to restudy English?Ah, what I could say about that last remark as a practitioner of English for 57 years. But, I will not.

OK, time to suppress the humor.

So, what kind of evidence might you provide us re substantiating your claims? You've related many anecdotes and circumstantial stories, but have yet to provide anything that could be tested and verified.

I have an RCH feeling that the verbiage will continue nevertheless.

Oh well...

sun45114
2006-Apr-22, 02:42 PM
You have misread my statement. I am not criticizing you.

Hi antoniseb,

I'm sorry indeed. Thank you for your help.

sun45114
2006-Apr-22, 03:20 PM
[QUOTE=Maksutov]
You've related many anecdotes and circumstantiatial srories, but have yet to provide anything that could be tested and verified.
QUOTE]

Hi Maksutov,

Please see #11. RIFT EVOLUTIONISM was tested and verified from 4 fields(including entire Chapter III, about 50pages.) Chapter III is in Chinese now.

sun45114
2006-Apr-22, 03:51 PM
Van Rijn's suggestion that water from comet impacts on the South Lunar pole could have survived is a fairly standard and often-heard hypothesis which was not disproved by the impact experiment of Lunar Prospector (that was only unsuccessful under suboptimal conditionsl, which happens).


Hi Arneb,

You consider water from comet impacts on the South Lunar pole of our Moon. Show its evidences Please!

Hamlet
2006-Apr-22, 05:10 PM
Hi Arneb,

You consider water from comet impacts on the South Lunar pole of our Moon. Show its evidences Please!

The neutron spectrometer onboard the Lunar Prospector (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Prospector) probe detected hydrogen at the poles. The current thinking is that this hydrogen is bound in water molecules. This is not a 100% conclusion, but the evidence is good. The forthcoming Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (http://lunar.gsfc.nasa.gov/missions/) mission will contain an impactor that should excavate enough material to hopefully settle the question.

Now that this evidence has been presented, can you please present some for your assertions? A cogent explanation of your ideas with some corroborating evidence would be most welcome. Otherwise, we have nothing of substance to discuss.

sun45114
2006-Apr-23, 07:18 AM
The neutron spectrometer onboard the Lunar Prospector (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Prospector) probe detected hydrogen at the poles. The current thinking is that this hydrogen is bound in water molecules. This is not a 100% conclusion, but the evidence is good. The forthcoming Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (http://lunar.gsfc.nasa.gov/missions/) mission will contain an impactor that should excavate enough material to hopefully settle the question.

Now that this evidence has been presented, can you please present some for your assertions? A cogent explanation of your ideas with some corroborating evidence would be most welcome. Otherwise, we have nothing of substance to discuss.

Hi Hamlet,

1. hydrogen = water?! Are you a scientist? Your remark will become a standing joke.

2. The fact is:

September 3, 1999: On July 31, 1999, NASA's Lunar Prospector spacecraft dived into a permanently shadowed crater near the Moon's south pole. Scientists hoped that the crash might liberate up to 40 lb of water vapor along with a plume of dusty impact debris, proving once and for all that water exists on the moon.

However, after this crashing, what did the scientists say?!

(1) Dr. David Goldstein, who led the University of Texas team said:"Right now we don't know that water ice was not observed".

http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast03sep99_1.htm

(2) "There are several possible explanations why we did not detect any water signature, and none of them can really be discounted at this time," said Dr. Ed Barker, assistant director of the university's McDonald Observatory at UT Austin, who coordinated the observing campaign.

http://www.spacescience.com/newhome/headlines/ast13oct99_1.htm

(3) Icebreaker would continue the work of Lunar Prospector, determining the nature of the hydrogen it detected, be it water ice, solar wind protons, or other. ... If the hydrogen's source is not water, Icebreaker will collect data to determine its true origin.

http://www.frc.ri.cmu.edu/projects/lunar-ice//

...

Ask a question again: hydrogen = water?!?

Van Rijn
2006-Apr-23, 08:43 AM
Ask a question again: hydrogen = water?!?

It is one of the two constituants of water, and water is the most likely reason we would be seeing this amount of lunar hydrogen.

Now, are you going to be answering any of the questions you've been asked?

For instance, I asked you when you believe humans arose in the Americas, China and elsewhere?

sun45114
2006-Apr-23, 09:50 AM
For instance, I asked you when you believe humans arose in the Americas, China and elsewhere?

Please see #73:

"the discussion has moved away from what NASA should do" because of someone closely asking such questions away from what NASA should do.

Now, I'll go back the area (Mars and Moon)what NASA should do. What shall you do?

Van Rijn
2006-Apr-23, 10:25 AM
Please see #73:

"the discussion has moved away from what NASA should do" because of someone closely asking such questions away from what NASA should do.

Now, I'll go back the area (Mars and Moon)what NASA should do. What shall you do?

So are you saying that you won't support or discuss your arguments in any way? If so, the moderators will likely close this thread. You can open a new thread in another forum asking questions about NASA not in reference to your assertions, but if you want to discuss (and support) your assertions about "rift evolutionism" or other arguments that do not appear to be supported by mainstream science and astronomy, this is the place on BAUT to do it.

sun45114
2006-Apr-23, 03:10 PM
Dear All,

Recently, I'll be on a business trip. See you later again!

Hamlet
2006-Apr-23, 03:15 PM
Hi Hamlet,

1. hydrogen = water?! Are you a scientist? Your remark will become a standing joke.


Your condescending remark is not appreciated. Hydrogen is a component of water and Lunar Prospector showed there was an abundance of hydrogen at the poles of the Moon. This does not mean it is necessarily bound in water, it could be in other compounds, but water ice is a reasonable conclusion.

If I were you, I wouldn't make remarks about standing jokes. The stuff you've posted so far is high in giggle-factor and low in content.



2. The fact is:

September 3, 1999: On July 31, 1999, NASA's Lunar Prospector spacecraft dived into a permanently shadowed crater near the Moon's south pole. Scientists hoped that the crash might liberate up to 40 lb of water vapor along with a plume of dusty impact debris, proving once and for all that water exists on the moon.

However, after this crashing, what did the scientists say?!


Lunar Prospector was not designed as an impactor mission, this was a suggestion that was made near the end of its extended mission. There was some hope that it might excavate enough material to see water in the plume. However, due to its small mass and oblique angle of impact, the resulting plume did not show water.

The LRO impactor(s) will be more massive, will be travelling at higher speeds and impact at a less oblique angle. This should give us a much better chance of seeing water in the plume.



Ask a question again: hydrogen = water?!?

Do you know that hydrogen is a component of water?

Nereid
2006-Apr-24, 01:52 AM
sun45114, when you have returned from your trip, and are ready to answer the direct, pertinent questions asked of your ATM idea, please send me (or another moderator) a PM (Private Message - click on UserCP), and I will re-open this thread.

In the meantime, please familiarise yourself with the BAUT Rules (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=32864), especially #13, which relates to this ATM section of BAUT.

ToSeek
2006-May-11, 03:13 AM
Thread re-opened at sun's request.

sun45114
2006-May-11, 06:15 AM
Dear Van Rijn,

I'm back now.


It is one of the two constituants of water, and water is the most likely reason we would be seeing this amount of lunar hydrogen.


1. Hydrogen = water?!

2. The other sources of lunar hydrogen might be as follows:
(1) hydrogen in lunar soil;
(2) solar wind protons or other...

Please see:"Icebreaker would continue the work of Lunar Prospector, determining the nature of the hydrogen it detected, be it water ice, solar wind protons, or other. If water is found, Icebreaker data will determine its origin and begin to characterize its distribution. If the hydrogen's source is not water, Icebreaker will collect data to determine its true origin."---http://www.frc.ri.cmu.edu/projects/lunar-ice//

3. If Hydrogen = water, then there will be no need to hit our moon again in 2008. Is it so?

Van Rijn
2006-May-11, 08:26 AM
Dear Van Rijn,

I'm back now.

1. Hydrogen = water?!


We covered that one. H2O is the most likely source of lunar hydrogen.



2. The other sources of lunar hydrogen might be as follows:
(1) hydrogen in lunar soil;
(2) solar wind protons or other...


Yes, it could be from water in lunar regolith. It is too much for solar wind. Anyway, we'll find out more with future experiments. The point is that there is some evidence, but it is not yet conclusive.

Now, are you ready to answer the questions asked of you? For instance, in:

http://www.bautforum.com/showpost.php?p=729886&postcount=91

sun45114
2006-May-11, 03:31 PM
Now, are you going to be answering any of the questions you've been asked?
For instance, I asked you when you believe humans arose in the Americas, China and elsewhere?

Dear Van Rijn,

1. What are you mean by "regolith" ? I can't understand it.

2. Let us first discuss the human arose in China.

There are two different concepts here: origin of humans and origin of modern humans. What's your mean to?


I would recommend you study up on genetics, evolution, and paleontology. I think you would be surprised.

Now, may I introduce you some newest theses of Academician Wu Xinzhi at Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology, Chinese Academy of Sciences (and other's)?
(1)WU Xin-zhi. Discussion on the Results of Some Molecular Studies Concerning the Origin of Modern Chinese,
ACTA ANTHROPOLOGICA SINICA, 2005 Vol.24 No.4 P.259-269;
(2)WU Xin-zhi. New Arguments on Continuity of Human Evolution in China, ACTA ANTHROPOLOGICA SINICA,2006 Vol.25 No.1 P.17-25.
(3)Yu N, Fu Y, & Li W. DNA polymorphism in a worldwide sample of human X chromosomes[J]. Mol Biol Evol 2002, 19(12):2131-2141.
(4)Templeton AR. Out of Africa again and again[J]. Nature, 2002,416:45-51.
(5)Eswaran V, Harpending H, Rogers AR. Genomics refutes an exclusively African origin of humans[J]. j.Hum Evol, 2005, 49:1-18.
...

3. Arguments 1 : about the origin of modern Chinese.

The conclusion based on the analyses of the genes of Y-chromosome, is that the indigenous people of China was totally replaced by the African immigrants during the Last Ice Age. But, this conclusion is wrong, we think.

(1). There is morphological evidence indicating the continuity of human evolution in China. The tradition of Paleolithic in China is quite different from that in Africa and Europe. In China the Mode I technique persisted in Pleistocene with only a few sites exhibiting techniques of other modes, while a succession from Mode I through Mode V was shown in Africa and Europe. ---[Wu, 2005]

(2). The paleo-faunae of Pleistocene China indicate that there was broad area suitable for human inhabitation even in Ice Age.Recent paleoanthropological reports provide evidence of human existence at least at four sites in China between 50 000 years BP and 100 000 years BP. ---[Wu, 2005]

(3). New studies on X- chromosome, chromosome 22 and chromosome 1 did not support the total replacement of archaic population in Europe by the African immigrants. ---[Wu, 2005]

(4). Near East is most probably on the passageway from Africa to China. Mode III technique prevalent in Near East around 100ky BP has not replaced the Mode I in china in any time. ---[Wu, 2005]

(5). Paleoanthropological study has already made clear that the human evolution is a very complicated process, new molecular studies indicate that molecular evolution is fairly more complex than that understood in 20th century, we should keep a clear head in thinking about the explanation and inference derived from new information on the origin of humans. ---[Wu, 2005]

(6). The contrast between the presence of mid-sagittal keeling, mandibular oxostosis, pinched nasal saddle and agenesis of third molar in recent East Asians, and their absence in recent African skulls fit better with the Multiregional model rather than the Recent out of Africa model. The fossil record suggests that mid-sagittal keeling and mandibular oxostosis existing in recent East Asians may derive from homo erectus of Beijing; the pinched nasal saddle may be traced to Maba early H. sapiens skull and Upper Cave Skull 101; and the agenesis of third molar may be related to the homo erectus mandible from Lantian and Upper Pleistocene skull from Liujiang. To consider the origin of these features in recent East Asians as effects of genetic drift during the dispersal out of Africa is less convincible. ---[Wu, 2006]

(7). Ten years ago, evidence from genetics gave strong support to the "recent African origin" view of the evolution of modern humans, which posits that Homo sapiens arose as a new species in Africa and subsequently spread, leading to the extinction of other archaic human species. Subsequent data from the nuclear genome not only fail to support this model, they do not support any simple model of human demographic history. In this paper, we study a process in which the modern human phenotype originates in Africa and then advances across the world by local demic diffusion, hybridization, and natural selection. While the multiregional model of human origins posits a number of independent single locus selective sweeps, and the "out of Africa" model posits a sweep of a new species, we study the intermediate case of a phenotypic sweep. Numerical simulations of this process replicate many of the seemingly contradictory features of the genetic data, and suggest that as much as 80% of nuclear loci have assimilated genetic material from non-African archaic humans. --- Eswaran V, Harpending H, Rogers AR., 2005

(8). The publication of a haplotype tree of human mitochondrial DNA variation in 1987 provoked a controversy about the details of recent human evolution that continues to this day. Now many haplotype trees are available, and new analytical techniques exist for testing hypotheses about recent evolutionary history using haplotype trees. Here I present formal statistical analysis of human haplotype trees for mitochondrial DNA, Y-chromosomal DNA, two X-linked regions and six autosomal regions. A coherent picture of recent human evolution emerges with two major themes. First is the dominant role that Africa has played in shaping the modern human gene pool through at least two—not one—major expansions after the original range extension of Homo erectus out of Africa. Second is the ubiquity of genetic interchange between human populations, both in terms of recurrent gene flow constrained by geographical distance and of major population expansion events resulting in interbreeding, not replacement. ---ALAN TEMPLETON, 2002.

(9). DNA sequence data from humans can provide insight into the history of modern humans and the genetic variability in human populations. We report here a study of human DNA sequence variation at an X-linked noncoding region of 10,346 bp. The sample consists of 62 X chromosomes from Africa, Europe, and Asia. Forty-four polymorphic sites were found among the 62 sequences, resulting in 23 different haplotypes. Statistical analyses of the data led to the following inferences. (1) There is strong evidence of human population expansion in the relatively recent past, and this population expansion has had a significant effect on the pattern of polymorphism at this locus. (2) Non-African populations were unlikely to have been derived from a very small number of African lineages. (3) There was considerable geographic subdivision in the ancient human population, which could be an important reason why many studies failed to detect population expansion. (4) The long-term effective population size of humans is between 12,000 and 15,000. And (5) a non-African specific variant was found at a frequency of 35% in non-Africans, an estimate supported by the genotyping of additional 80 non-African and 106 African X chromosomes. This variant could have arisen in Eurasia more than 140,000 years ago, predating the emergence of modern humans. Moreover, this haplotype and all other haplotypes coalesced to the most recent common ancestor of the sample, which was estimated to be older than 490,000 years. Therefore, this region may have a long history in Eurasia.--- Yu N; Fu YX; Li WH, 2002.

...

[to be continued, just some days please.]

Tianxi Sun
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-May-13, 12:08 PM
Hi Sun. You have put forth an interesting theory. I'm particularly interested in Chapter 2 of your book. Could you please summarise it here?


Dear ChaosKnight,

CHAPTER Ⅱ

MECHANISMS OF RIFT EVOLUTION

The former USSR scientist В. И. Вилнаский (1987) said that life might be created at the time when geological balance was lost(1); Other scientists of former USSR also considered that organic cells with X type structure were occurred only by some sharp physical changes within molecules(1). Moreover, V. E. Khain(1989)studied the possible connection between geotectonic actions and the life of Earth (2); and US geologist V. E. Courtillot(1990)pointed out that catastrophic volcanic activity might be a pivotal factor that caused life to make complex evolution(3). However, it was a pity that they all didn’t deeply research this field.

The author (Sun Tianxi, 1992) put forward a concept of “stimulated pregnancy”, to define a kind of unique process that life and its new species were originated firstly in the places of plate breaking (continental rift valleys and/or oceanic ridges) by a lot of strong and everlasting stimulations(4).

The author induces the mechanisms of “stimulated pregnancy” in rift valleys for following eight kinds: smashing reaction, vent reaction, nitrogen fixation, molybdenum enzyme, gene embedding, molecule oxygen, volcano pump and powerful magnetic field.

1. SMASHING REACTION

The existence of abnormal mantle is a visible deep structure feature for the rift valley. The material composition that made up rift’s abnormal mantle has been confirmed as lherzolite. The lherzolite under rift valleys has a very high ratio of helium isotope:

(3 He / 4 He = 0. 87 ± 0. 03),

which is similar to aerolites(5).

Looked from the nuclear radioactivity angle, proton smashing reaction in celestial bodies can often be happened under the action of cosmic rays, thus giving out many evaporate nucleus such as neutrons, protons, D, T, 3 He , 4 He, 6 Li, πmesons and so on(6). The reasons why aerolites have so high abundance ratio of 3 He / 4 He would be that: first, because aerolites have been suffering by a long-term radiation of cosmic rays; second, the aerolites as the core of asteroid also have been suffering by their super nuclear radiation themselves(7).

But, why existed so high abundance ratio of 3 He / 4 He within rift valleys too? Does it disprove the lherzolite under rift valleys also have been suffering by a long-term nuclear radiation from mantle within rift valleys(8), thus generating a kind of super proton smashing reaction? One of the evidences is that the uranium reserves under the West Rift Valleys in Northern America is about five times as many as the one in oceanic water worldwide(9). As everyone knows, cosmic rays or nuclear radiation can not only produce organic macromolecule compounds(10) and increase protein secretion(11), but also cause cells' variation(12), mutation(13) and chromosome recombination(14). So that, does it disprove the organism within rift valleys also had been suffering by the super radiation and thus easier to cause the sudden change to form some new kinds of the living beings?

[to be continued, just some days please.]

Tianxi Sun
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-May-13, 12:34 PM
sun45114, when you have returned from your trip, and are ready to answer the direct, pertinent questions asked of your ATM idea, please send me (or another moderator) a PM (Private Message - click on UserCP), and I will re-open this thread.

In the meantime, please familiarise yourself with the BAUT Rules (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=32864), especially #13, which relates to this ATM section of BAUT.


.....

sun45114
2006-May-14, 11:34 AM
Thanks, I got confused by 'Star' in that. I have another question. If rift valleys are indeed the place where life started, does your theory provide a mechanism for how this happened? In other words, does it answer the 'how' question and not just the 'where'?

Dear Cugel,

CHAPTER Ⅱ

MECHANISMS OF RIFT EVOLUTION

... (please see #101)


2. VENT REACTION

Over 80 hydrothermal vents on the Pacific Ocean floor and over 10 hydrothermal vents on the Atlantic Ocean floor were found along respective oceanic ridges during 1977~1985(15)(fig. 2-1* (16*), fig. 2-2* (17*)).

A hydrothermal vent is a geyser on the seafloor within oceanic ridge. It continuously spews super-hot, mineral-rich water that helps support a diverse community of organisms. Although most of the deep sea is sparsely populated, vent sites teem with a fascinating array of life. Tubeworms and huge clams are the most distinctive inhabitants of Pacific Ocean vent sites, while eyeless shrimp are found only at vents in the Atlantic Ocean(18*).

In 1977, scientists discovered hot springs at a depth of 2.5 km at a ridge off the coast of South America. In 1979, during an expedition along the tip of Baja California, Alvin discovered 65-foot-high chimney-shaped structure spitting hot black "smoke." Hence was born the name "black smokers" for vents that emitted dark streams of particles. While their chemistry may vary, black smokers often emit particles that are rich in sulfides, lead, cobalt, zinc, copper, and silver. Other types of vents ejecting a different composition of minerals have been found and named, including "white smokers", who spit out streams of gypsum and zinc, rather than sulfides. They also contain fewer amounts of iron and copper.

The VENTS Program, established in 1984, conducts research on the oceanic impacts and consequences of submarine volcanoes and hydrothermal venting. The program focuses on understanding the chemical and thermal effects of venting along northeast Pacific Ocean Rise.

In a general way, these vents have three characteristics:

l Ejecting some hydrothermal solution of 350~650 ℃ with 265 atmospheric pressures(19);
l Ejecting sulfides;
l Accumulating heavy metals(20).

The significance of these characteristics to biological evolution might be as following:

(1). High temperature may cause the males near the vents on the high side; its similar examples are whitebaits(21)and Mississippi alligators(22). Moreover, it was reported by the ordinary media that this kind of examples also were paddy, chelonian and even mankind. It was said that the male should be the impulsion of biologic evolution and the mutation should be happened mainly in spermatozoon(23).

The high temperature creates a continuous temperature gradient near the vents, from hundreds of degree Celsius inside the vents to 6 ℃ closed on sea bottom. Every chemist can tell us that where there is temperature gradient, there are chemical reactions. Seawater rotated nearby the vents can immediately cool down the new synthetically chemical compounds, thus protecting these compounds from decomposition. These compounds endlessly rise and fall, mix and react in the hydrothermal solution of the vents, forming some bigger and bigger compound scraps(24).

(2). Under the high pressure on sea bottom, sulphate within the vents changes into hydrogen sulfide(25), thus creating an acid surroundings. And these acid surroundings plus the high temperature state are extremely propitious to the synthesis of sulfate(26). Prof. Cristian R·de Du(26), the winner of the Nobel Prize, pointed out that sulfate might be an energy source of primary cells and could spark a chain of chemical reactions in original sea mud, which were similar to the cell’s metabolism nowadays. The ultimate result of these reactions might synthesize out ribonucleic acid (RNA). Therefore, sulfate would play an extremely important role for the origin of life. It is necessary to point out that the primary bacteria frisking near the hydrothermal vents on oceanic ridges just were / are eating-sulfide (sulphurvorous)(27)! That is, they have been known for years to be able to use chemical energy as a basis of their metabolism. So in the case of the free-living bacteria, there are many sulfide-oxidizing bacteria that can use chemical sulfide to basically run their metabolic pathways - to produce organic compounds, small nutrient compounds that form the basis of their nutrition.

(3). It has been proved by experiments(28)that the accumulated heavy metals (such as zinc, iron, copper and manganese etc) near the vents synthesize out aminoacetic acid, alanine and so on, which are absolutely necessarily raw material of protein; moreover, the RNA of simple molecule can make RNA constituents reproduce them by themselves under a condition of zinc catalyzer existing. Sequentially, scientists have reached a conclusion that the whole work for creating life under the high temperature just like in volcano would add only zinc(29)! Please allow me modify this conclusion into: one of the mysteries of creating life should be just the production and existence of zinc under a high temperature of hydrothermal vents within oceanic ridges.

In addition, Japanese scientists had added copper into a system simulated an environment of hydrothermal vent. As a result of this, simpler aminoacetic acid was become into more complex oligopeptide molecules that is one of the protein’s constituents(30).

Furthermore, US Scientists found from their experiments in 1999(31)that nitrogen plus hydrogen can generate a reducing reaction and produce an active ammonia molecule made by one nitrogen molecule and three hydrogen molecules; If there exist some heavy metals as activators, the nitrogen molecule can deoxidize into ammonia molecule under conditions of 300~800℃ and 0.1~0.4gillpascal. It is necessary to point out that these conditions mentioned above just are the typical features about sea bottom hydrothermal vent system.

Other researches have testified that life probably starts at similar hydrothermal vents as a way of speeding up the reaction of hydrogen with carbon dioxide in ancient ocean water(32*).

Tianxi Sun
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-May-14, 01:45 PM
Thread re-opened at sun's request.

Dear ToSeek,

Thank you for your re-open and from "An Open Letter to NASA Thread" to "Tianxi Sun's Rift Evolution Thread".

CHAPTER Ⅱ

MECHANISMS OF RIFT EVOLUTION

... (Please see #101 and #103)


3. NITROGEN FIXATION

If there were no nitrogen on Earth; there would be no life. This is because all proteins and nucleic acids contain nitrogen atoms(33).

Over 3/4 substances in Earth’s atmosphere are made by nitrogen that exists in the form of inert gases (N2). The operation that atmospheric nitrogen is transformed into some form that can be used by living beings is commonly called as nitrogen fixation.

Early in 1960’s, a matter called as nitrogenase that could fix nitrogen was parted from bacterium. It was found that heavy metal molybdenum is an absolutely necessary component of nitrogenase; and in nitrogenase, molybdenum atoms are always combined with some enzymes. Thus, scientists inferred that the beginning of nitrogen fixation should be started through molybdenum atoms. Moreover, molybdenum’s nitrogenases are very similar each other in all the nitrogen-fixing bacteria, thus supporting a view of molybdenum system existed in every nitrogenase(33).

It must be pointed out that molybdenum is extremely lacking outside rift valleys(34) whereas very widespread within rift valleys(35,、36,、37). Thus, it should be easily understood why life was created firstly in rift valleys.

Tianxi Sun
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

Jens
2006-May-15, 09:28 AM
[COLOR="Blue"]Dear "Van Rijn":
It is very universal that stars including planets and moons were/are undergone a lot of impacting by comets.

This is just a small point, but I know you are using the word star as [星], which can also means planets and other bodies, but in English the word "star" is only used for bodies like the sun, i.e. shining stars or "burning stars" if you will.

Then, just a question, but have you considered trying to put your theory into the context of an "expanding earth"? Maybe then you could find something special about rift valleys.

sun45114
2006-May-15, 03:10 PM
This is just a small point, but I know you are using the word star as [星], which can also means planets and other bodies, but in English the word "star" is only used for bodies like the sun, i.e. shining stars or "burning stars" if you will.

Then, just a question, but have you considered trying to put your theory into the context of an "expanding earth"? Maybe then you could find something special about rift valleys.

Dear Jens,

Thank you for your advices.

1. Could I use a word "aster" or "cytaster" as "星体" that can also mean planets and other bodies ?

2. Where is the "expanding earth" you suggest? Which thread?

Kindly give me some advice.

Tianxi Sun

sun45114
2006-May-15, 04:12 PM
Dear All,

CHAPTER Ⅱ

MECHANISMS OF RIFT EVOLUTION

...(Please see #11, #101, #103 and #104)

4. MOLYBDENUM ENZYME

In the long-term evolution process, an organism has gradually consummated its own oxidation-reduction system: biological response chain composed by a series of zymoprotein would store some energy released from food oxidation in a form of chemical energy of phosphoric acid chain within adenosine triphosphate (ATP), and would release the energy to impel other responses and movements in the organism when needed. But a question produced along with it is that, “superoxide free redical” and “superoxide anion” formed in the return to original state have had a high reactivity, which nearly can destroy the most organic members which contacts with them. Therefore, they are extremely harmful to the organism.

Only if multiplying out a system that can effectively eliminate these deleterious substances, the organism could continue to survive and to evolve. That, would be the biochemistry background on which superoxide dismutase , catalase as well as peroxidase depend for production and existence(38).

Xanthine oxidase in the animal, one of the metal-enzymes contained molybdenum, was discovered by experiments that the activeness of this kind of enzyme vanished immediately if molybdenum removed(39). This indicates that molybdenum is not only the constituent but also the activator of many enzymes(38). As stated above, rift valleys can produce molybdenum. Therefore, it would be unique for producing enzymes and activating enzymes within rift valleys.

Initially looks like, it seems to be really hard to understand that the nature choices molybdenum (the special product of rift valleys) as an essential element for the life. But, if carefully investigates the molybdenum chemistry(38), people wouldn’t be difficult to understand why molybdenum so favorable for the organism:

(1) The oxidation states of molybdenum may be from 0 valence to +6 valences, but their redox potential region happens to tally with organism's oxidation-reduction potential, thus providing the widespread choice foundation for each kind of redox reaction. In addition, the molybdenum is only one metal which can provide 2 ~ 3 electrons in the low electric potential to carry on a series of biological reaction.

(2) The molybdenum that has high valence has high coordination number, thus easy to carry on each kind of substitution reaction whose mechanism is S N 2.

(3) Molybdenum’s complex compound is relatively stable, thus causes each kind of molybdenum protein also stable. This is very important for molybdenum protein displaying the biological function under various environments.

(4) Under the condition of neutral PH, the molybdenum mainly exists by the highly water-soluble MOO4-2, although the abundance of molybdenum in nature is about 10,000 times smaller than that of iron. Therefore, it cannot easily consume by the biology like Fe+2, Ni+2, Cu+2, Co+2 and so on.



Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-May-17, 07:13 AM
CHAPTER Ⅱ

MECHANISMS OF RIFT EVOLUTION

...(Please see #11,#101,#103, #104 and #107)

5. GENE EMBEDDING

Australian Queensland University made a gene gun, took a 1-micron laser beam into a wheat gemmule that was growing, thus realizing gene implants. Its principle may be that the pulse laser beam rays cells, creating some micro-damage that may be repaired themselves in the cell membrane surface and debasing their fastness, thus causing the cells to absorb some extraneous source DNA and finally to obtain some transformed cells, which will grow and split off with new genes(40).

It is reported that the organism evolves not only through gradually accumulation of DNA mutation but sometimes also through an union of two kind genes which are wide of the mark each other(41); An only atomic mistake may cause the meaning of entire section gene to change completely and lead to emerge brand-new characters, when gene synthesizing(42).

As mentioned above, the beams such as the massive protons, αradiation as well as the extremely massive electron emission(43、44), which carried some extraneous source DNA, are all occurred from rift valleys. Aren’t they also gene guns? Can’t they cause the organism cells within rift valleys also easily to absorb the extraneous source DNA and thus easily in the rift valleys firstly to form some new organisms? ….

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

aurora
2006-May-17, 02:19 PM
Could you explain what you mean by a rift valley? Are you using the term in the same way as an English-speaking geologist would use it?

I have to say that claiming that there are massive protons that come from gene guns in rift valleys and therefore new organisms are found in rift valleys because their DNA absorbs extraneous material...

That just sounds wrong on a number of levels.

sun45114
2006-May-18, 02:34 AM
Could you explain what you mean by a rift valley? Are you using the term in the same way as an English-speaking geologist would use it?



Dear aurora,

1. Yes, in the same wayas an English-speaking geologist
would use it;
2. Please see as following and #11:


CHAPTER Ⅰ

LIFE ORIGINS FROM RIFT VALLEYS

1. RIFT VALLEYS

By a rift valley or a rift is meant a tension fracture zone with long extending and deep incising. It is a long and narrow fault trough caused by plate breaking. A rift system or a rift zone consists of some rifts by a certain pattern.

The definition of the rift valley contains two essentials: a larger scale is the first one, it can cut off entire lithosphere; its tension surroundings are the second one, thus differentiated from other huge fractures that can cut off entire lithosphere either, such as transform faults and underthrust zones [1].

In topography, rift valley represents a series of long basins and vales. Along its axis, the lithosphere there obviously becomes very thin, and the mantle there upsurges. Therefore, heat flow within rift valley, especially within continental rift valley, has much greater value than that within other tectonic units. To take Mid-Atlantic Ridge as an example, the value of heat flow along its axis is about 4.7 times greater than the one within its limbs. So high heat anomaly mainly relates to the rise of the mantle with high temperature. The original study for rift valley was begun with East Africa(Gregory,1893). Some mid-oceanic ridge rift systems were found in the 1950’s. On these grounds, a global rift system map was drawn up (fig.1-1) [2].

Rift valleys, which have been found on the surface of Earth, can be divided into 4 kinds:

l Oceanic rifts, take mid-oceanic ridges as its deputy;
l Continental rifts, take East African Rift Valleys as its deputy;
l Rifts between continents, take Gulf of Aden and Red Sea as well as Gulf of California as its deputies;
l Rifts within marginal seas, which is a transition form to oceanic rifts; take Japan Sea as its deputy.

It is necessary to point out that almost all rifts (continental rifts and oceanic rifts), except for Baikal Rift, are joined each other, and thus forming a global rift system.

Continental rift systems mostly extend very long. For instance,the East African Rift System that extends with near N.-S. orientation through almost entire East Africa is as long as 4 500 km, even 6 500 km if Jordan graben, Dead Sea graben and Aqaba graben included (fig.1-2) [1]; Baikal Rifts is about 2 500 km; and Eastern Rifts in Northern America from St. Lawrence River is also as long as 2 200 km, etc.

Earthquakes, magmatic intrusions and volcanic eruptions within continental rift always occur frequently; and the focuses there are commonly quite shallow, only 45 km deep.

Oceanic rift systems are named either mid-oceanic ridge (a lot of earthquakes occur there) or mid-ocean rise (fewer earthquakes there), and called by a joint name as oceanic ridge. The deepness of the seawater over oceanic ridge is mostly 2 000~3 000 m; And the width of oceanic ridge commonly is 1 000~2 000 m. Paralleling to the trend of oceanic ridge, there are a series of mountain ranges and deep gorges. In the axis of the ridge, the mountain ranges rising and falling are maximal and the landform there most complex. Towards its limbs, the landform tends gently bit-by-bit.

Oceanic ridges are often incised by a series of large faults that vertically or diagonally with the ridge axis, as a fish chine wiped out its meat ((fig.1-3) [1]).

Oceanic ridges spread in different oceans with unlike features: in the Pacific, the ridge that has hardly earthquakes and are much gently is partial to the southeast of the ocean, which is called “East Pacific Rise”; In the Atlantic, the ridge axis that runs through its entire middle part and is parallel to its shore outlines, presents a S- shape bend (see fig.1-3) [1]; And in the Indian Ocean, the ridge is branched into three parts that show a reverse shape of Y, although its main body is situated in the central section of this ocean.

All the rift valleys are linear in surface; most of the rifts are near N. - S. orientation.

All the rift valleys are interlocking and sabre rattling showed in section plane (fig.1-4 [1], fig.1-5 [2]).

We now learn about that rift valleys were occurred during almost each important geological period. For example, the Atlantic Ridge was formed about 200 million years ago; and the Japan Sea Palæo-Rift was produced before 40 million years.

What was rift valley actually happened, by tension or by compression? The problem has always been in suspension.

As early as the beginning of the twentieth century, some scientists had raised an idea that rift valley might be caused by tension stress (Suess,1904;Gregory,1921). But another scientists considered it might be caused by compressive stress (Wayland,1921;Bullard,1936).

Up to the year of 1959, Talwani et al. took East African Rift Valleys as an example; calculated 2 models (normal fault and reversed fault) used by computer, and found that rift valley would be identical with the model of normal fault under tension stress. A lot of studies afterwards about earthquake faults, focus mechanisms and geodetic surveys as well as analogue experiments all have verified that rift valleys could be caused under tension stress [2].

I have researched a mechanism of plate breaking since 1970’s, thus advancing a Five Stage Model [3] on breaking course of plate (Sun Tianxi, 1983). To above-mentioned argues, my opinion is they both sides were all right but partially: in globe scale, rift valleys were produced under an environment of compression; this is because “Earth plates are mainly endured by compression of N. -S. orientation component force along horizontal plane caused by a resultant force between meridian force and gravity. ” (Wang Ren: private letter, 1978.6.21). However in partially, rift valleys would be created directly by tension stress. So that, these both above seem to be not contradictory, I think.

Now, it is necessary to focus my introduction on Panxi Rift, the most important rift valley in China. Why do we introduce it so warmly? That is because in China it was bassinet of monkeys and apes as well as the Chinese nations (for details, please see Chapter Ⅲ).

...

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-May-18, 03:39 PM
CHAPTER Ⅱ

MECHANISMS OF RIFT EVOLUTION

...(please see #11, #101, #103, #104, #107 and #110)


6. MOLECULE OXYGEN

Molecular oxygen is a requisite for life body. Only after containing a considerable amount of molecular oxygen within earth's atmosphere, the higher plant and the animal can be appeared in the world(45). This is because the energy calorie released from burning glucose in oxidation environment is 11 times larger than that from fermenting glucose in reduction environment such as in Jupiter atmosphere(46).

Professor B. Бгатов, the former USSR scientist of New Siberia, found after his 20 years research that oxygen content in the seawater reaches the minimum in 600 ~ 1,000-meter deep sea; and once crosses this "dead level", the oxygen content is actually in the direct ratio of the seawater depth. The whole science circle has been astir with containing unexpectedly rich oxygen in the deepest sea. This kind of oxygen is oxygen isotope 18O, which is obviously different with another kind of oxygen released through photosynthesis of the plant; its weight exceeds the latter. This difference has powerfully proved that the seabed oxygen should come from the interior of Earth(47).It is necessary to point out that did over the Atlantic Mid-Oceanic Ridge area this kind of 18O with high concentration was recorded by Professor B. Бгатовet al(48). Moreover, 18O was also recorded along the coasts of California and Peru (over the East Pacific Rise), Arabia and Somalia (over the Indian Ocean Mid-Ridge) and West Africa (over the Atlantic Mid-Oceanic Ridge). After determination, the beneficiation of the heavy oxygen isotope (18O) in the seawater of surface layer over these oceanic ridges is the highest(48).

Now, our information is that the oxygen whether released through photosynthesis of the plant or gained from the atmosphere of our Earth and or let out from the interior of the Earth, their isotopic contents are different and their weight increase progressively; one oxygen released through photosynthesis of the plant mixes with two oxygen let out from the interior of the Earth (by rift valleys), just constitute the oxygen in our atmosphere. This shows clearly that two thirds of oxygen in the atmosphere comes from the interior of the Earth(47). It is worthwhile pointing out that the Monera synthesized out the hemoglobin and thus mutating into the Eucaryote just through an oxygen impact when reducing atmosphere suddenly changed into oxygenic atmosphere during the 1st plate breaking 2 billion years ago(49、50). please see Table 1-2 of ChapterⅠ.

The amphiprotic phenomenon (both biological sexes) started from 2 billion years ago(51). In my opinion, by the way, it caused by some violent environmental mutation during the 1st plate breaking 2 billion years ago, although some English scientists ascribed the appearance of both biological sexes 2 billion years ago to the bacterium infection(52). Following new evidence can reinforce my view:

In 2005, some Canadian Fredericton scientists discovered a relation between sex and environment through experiments: Volvocida generally carries on vegetative propagation, but on sexual reproduction when water temperature rises; so does Rhine-algae (when in nitrogen depletion). They therefore believed that sex might be an useful response for overstrains; the new gene produced by the sexual reproduction could adapt the algae to the environment changed(53*).

It is quite obvious in the oceanic mid-ridges that 18O comes from the rift valley.

Its known geologic evidences are:

(1) The non-alteration basalt rich in 18O was unthread in the 504-B abyssal drill-hole under Costa Rica Oceanic Ridge(54);

(2) Some iron sulfides with a thin orange~red oxide-film were dug up in a hydrothermal vent within Juan de Fuca Ridge. This showed that the surfaces of these iron sulfides undoubtedly had come into contact with ocean-flour seawater rich in oxygen(55).

Its known biologic evidences are:

(1) Metabolic rate, growth rate and breeding rate of the biocenosis living in the hydrothermal nozzle of oceanic ridges are by far higher than that of the deep-sea organism far away the oceanic ridge(56);

(2) Bottom water rich in oxygen within oceanic ridges has been breeding various hydrothermal nozzle fauna, which can’t survive in all anoxia water(57). As contrast, there are no oxygen and nearly no creature in bottom water far away oceanic ridges(58). It should be very natural from biochemistry angle: if the oxygen density is too low, the sulfide on ocean bottom might proliferate into biological tissues there, thus retarding C cytochrome oxidase - one of the essential enzymes for normal aerobic metabolism of the clam and the bacterium near ocean ridge nozzles - from playing its role, and stopping creature’s normal metabolism(59).

It is not strange that rift valley is rich in 18O. That is because as follows:

(1) the core is rich in oxygen —— two US geophysicists(60) once proposed that the core of the Earth might include lighter elements such as sulfur and oxygen. They drew the above conclusion after through comparing the core density obtained by earthquake investigation with the one obtained by pressurizing iron and iron sulfide in laboratory.

(2) the mantle is rich in oxygen —— US high pressure experiment(61)indicated that major lower mantle is composed by MgSiO5, which is rich in oxygen.

It is necessary to point out that besides the oxygen, other main gases in Earth’s atmosphere are also mostly released from our Earth. Their way and pattern released from the earth’s interior are all consistent with that of the oxygen.

In 2000, some scientists from Entire Russia Institute of Geology and Mineral Resources noticed that quite a number of methane could be appeared in Earth’s troposphere after small earthquakes, less than 200 million tons per year. The geologists all believed that it would be released from hydrothermal vents of oceanic ridges. When the hydrothermal flow run out from the ocean floor, its pressure can rapidly drop, thus causing methane, carbon dioxide, nitrogen, hydrogen, helium, hydrogen sulfide and certainly including oxygen, which are dissolved in the hydrothermal flow, to form many small bubbles. They are too small to float out seawater surface by themselves, exactly the hot flow leads them rapidly to rise 200 ~ 400 meters from ocean floor. The more they rise, the bigger they change, although gradually and slowly. The computation indicated that these bubbles of 0.1 ~ 1 millimeters diameters rise up at a speed of 5 ~ 16 centimeters a second and rise to 4 kilometers from ocean floor after 7 ~ 22 hours. The massive air bubbles are finally floated onto the ocean surface. The research indicated they rise in vertical way(62).

...

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-May-19, 12:07 PM
This kind of oxygen is oxygen isotope 18O, which is obviously different with another kind of oxygen released through photosynthesis of the plant; its weight exceeds the latter.

Note: 18(superscript)O

sun45114
2006-May-20, 11:18 AM
CHAPTER Ⅱ

MECHANISMS OF RIFT EVOLUTION

...(Please see #11,#101,#103,#104,#107,#110and #111)


7. VOLCANO PUMP

As everyone knows, nucleic acid is the most fundamental material for the organism, and phosphoric acid is the skeleton of the nucleic acid. If phosphoric acid had not been dissolved in the primitive ocean, the life would not have originated at that time. In fact, however, as soon as phosphoric acid enters into the seawater, it can react with calcium or magnesium to produce compound settlings that can’t dissolve into water. Consequently, a question proposed: How in the primitive ocean did the organism having the self- multiplication characteristics was formed?

Some Japanese Professors(58)had made experiments with the conditions of volcano paroxysmal eruption to try to explain the difficult problem above mentioned. They mixed basalt powder with apatite powder together to enter an electric stove of 1 300 ℃ to be melted. They then eject vapor and air into the stove to make the melted materials to be cooled violently. A lot of poly-phosphoric acid linked by complex phosphoric acid was formed as soon as the temperature cooled to -2 ℃. The poly-phosphoric acid is different from phosphoric acid. It can dissolve into water, thus becoming the source of the life.

Enlightened by the above experiments, I think only hydrothermal vents within the oceanic ridge can simultaneously possess the two conditions, magma and cooled violently. So, the oceanic ridge should be the place produced a large number of poly-phosphoric acids in the primitive ocean. Although some seabed volcanoes of non-rift valley system over Plate Subduction Zones and over Hot Spots also possess the two conditions, the source place of the primitive life must possess other conditions such as sulfate, aminoacetic acid, alanine, zinc catalyzer and molybdenum’s nitrogenases etc., besides poly-phosphoric acid. Therefore, only the oceanic ridge is the sole pump producing primitive life in the primitive ocean!

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-May-21, 02:49 PM
CHAPTER Ⅱ

MECHANISMS OF RIFT EVOLUTION

......(Please see #11,#101,#103,#104,#107,#110,#111and #113)


8. POWERFUL MAGNETIC FIELD

An US biophysics scientist (1991) (59)found that pulse magnetic field could accelerate protein synthesis in the cells. That is just widely divergent with the traditional theory of “magnetic field can destroy cells”. The scientist put some bacteria of no cell membrane into a pulse magnetic field of 10 Gauss for one hour. He found afterwards that the synthetic rate of a specified enzyme (protein) was 22% ~ 55% higher than the one not within a pulse magnetic field. This is the first report that magnetic field outside organism can result in a good effect.

Furthermore, some Japanese scientists worked for a seed company also made analogous experiments. They put some seeds of the legume into a strong magnetic field. As a result, the germination rate of the seeds was accelerated and the harvest was advanced, its crop increased obviously(60).

Here, people can’t help asking: well, is it really whether the magnetic field within rift valley much stronger than the one not within rift valley? I answer yes.\

According to the work of US scientist Victor Vacquier (1972) (61), we know that as following:

(1) The native residual magnetization of ellipsoidal lava on oceanic bed within the Atlantic Mid-Ridge (N 45°10’) = 0.0541 cm·g·sec; Whereas the native residual magnetization of multihole olivine-basalt on a seamount of the Northern Atlantic Ocean where is far from the Atlantic Mid-Ridge (N 34°51’, W 16°31’) = 0.0048~0.0053 cm·g·sec, which is one order smaller than that within the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.

(2) 38 lumps of basalt from both sides of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge along N 45°were unearthed. Their mean native residual magnetization = 0.0092 cm·g·sec. Of which, 9 lumps were within the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, their native residual magnetization = 0.0574 cm·g·sec, which is 6 times as much as the mean one.

Thus, it is obviously that the biocenosis placed in strong magnetic field has much higher protein synthetic rate and much faster evolution variation speed.



The common actions of the eight mechanisms mentioned above, made rift valleys becoming the sources of the life and the sources of evolving new species first in(4).



Now, many scientists have been exploring with extremely hardship to answer and explain when, where and how the life originated. Professor James P. Ferris(23), the US Chemist declared that the most convincing explanation about the life originated should be emerged sooner or later.

Dr. J. Lovelock, the initiator of the Gaia Hypothesis, said in 2002 that a systematic theory exercising controls over the Earth and the Life must be emerged in future; the science will be become into an entirety once again(62)!

Let us shout loudly for the coming of this heavenly time!

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P. R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

Gillianren
2006-May-21, 05:00 PM
Changing the text colour makes your stuff harder to read, you know.

sun45114
2006-May-22, 01:10 AM
Changing the text colour makes your stuff harder to read, you know.

Dear Gillianren,

I'm sorry indeed. Thank you for your advice.

Tianxi Sun

sun45114
2006-May-23, 01:27 PM
This is just a small point, but I know you are using the word star as [星], which can also means planets and other bodies, but in English the word "star" is only used for bodies like the sun, i.e. shining stars or "burning stars" if you will.


Dear Jens,

STAR I used (#11, Chapter IV) seems to be worry in English, but rather CELESTIAL BODY.
All right?

Tianxi Sun

sun45114
2006-May-23, 02:38 PM
I have another question. If rift valleys are indeed the place where life started, does your theory provide a mechanism for how this happened? In other words, does it answer the 'how' question and not just the 'where'?

Dear Cugel,

1. The mechanism is over, please see #101,#103,#104,#107,#110,#111, #113 and #114.

2. Please kindly give me some advices, thank you!

Tianxi Sun

sun45114
2006-May-24, 02:39 PM
Hydrogen is a component of water and Lunar Prospector showed there was an abundance of hydrogen at the poles of the Moon. This does not mean it is necessarily bound in water, it could be in other compounds, but water ice is a reasonable conclusion.


Dear Hamlet,

Dr. Galacsi [please see the thread of Searching water on the moon, ATM ] said as following:

"If you have a look of the hydrogen map produced by Lunar Prospector :

http://lunar.arc.nasa.gov/dataviz/datamaps/index.html

You see the regions where hydrogen is deduced from neutron counting are evrywhere and not only the poles.

So why people think only of the poles ?"

...

How do you explain it?Could it be said that the water ice exist evrywhere on our Moon?

Tianxi Sun

Hamlet
2006-May-25, 01:37 PM
Dear Hamlet,

Dr. Galacsi [please see the thread of Searching water on the moon, ATM ] said as following:

"If you have a look of the hydrogen map produced by Lunar Prospector :

http://lunar.arc.nasa.gov/dataviz/datamaps/index.html

You see the regions where hydrogen is deduced from neutron counting are evrywhere and not only the poles.

So why people think only of the poles ?"

...

How do you explain it?Could it be said that the water ice exist evrywhere on our Moon?

Tianxi Sun

The link you posted does not tell the whole story. Those maps are only showing the distribution and concentration of hydrogen, not just water. To see why people think there is water at the poles you need to look at data for the actual water signature. Have a look at the Water Ice Signature (http://lunar.arc.nasa.gov/results/ice/eureka.htm) graph. The dips in the graph at the North and South poles are indicative of water.

You need to understand that it's not just a simple count up of neutrons that indicates water. It's a little more complicated than that. The neutrons coming from the lunar surface have different energies. There are low-energy or thermal neutrons, medium energy or epithermal neutrons and high-enegry or fast neutrons. The different energy ranges depend on the interactions the neutrons have had before they enter the detector. Hydrogen bound to water is good at slowing down fast neutrons to the thermal range.

The Neutron Spectrometer (NS) onboard Lunar Propector was comprised of two different counters. Each counter had a core of helium-3 atoms which produced energy when a neutron collided with them. This energy was detected and counted. However, one counter was wrapped in a layer of cadmium and the other counter was wrapped in tin. Cadmium is good at filtering out the slow thermal neutrons whereas tin allows all neutrons through. Since both counter are essentially the same, any difference in the neutron count must be attributable to thermal neutrons. This count differential is what signals water ice and that is exactly what is shown in the graph as LP passed over the poles.

To answer your question, there isn't water all over the Moon, but there is good evidence that some exists at the poles. May I suggest that if you wish to talk about water ice on the Moon, you should start a new thread. This seems to be off-topic here.

sun45114
2006-May-26, 06:52 AM
May I suggest that if you wish to talk about water ice on the Moon, you should start a new thread. This seems to be off-topic here.

Dear Hamlet,

1. This thread was renamed from "An Open Letter to NASA" in 14-May-2006. Please see #1.

2. Regarding the Moon, the presence of water ice at the South Pole is indeed controversial. 2008 impacting should be the best touchstone for it. Let's wait and see!

Tianxi Sun

sun45114
2006-May-28, 01:10 AM
We covered that one. H2O is the most likely source of lunar hydrogen....
Yes, it could be from water in lunar regolith.


Dear Van Rijn,

There are no permanently darkened craters in Lunar equator, so can't exist so-called water ice there. But, in Lunar equator, there are a lot of hydrogen almost everywhere [please see http://lunar.arc.nasa.gov/dataviz/datamaps/index.html].

Questions:

1. What does the hydrogen in Lunar equator mean?Could it be "from water in lunar regolith"?

2. Is there any difference between the hydrogens in Lunar equator and in Lunar poles?

Tianxi Sun

sun45114
2006-May-28, 02:44 AM
http://lunar.arc.nasa.gov/dataviz/datamaps/index.html

sun45114
2006-Jun-01, 02:28 AM
"This ATM section of BAUT is all about providing those with ATM ideas the opportunity to present them." said Dr.Nereid, our moderator.

Now, I'll elaborate systematically my theory of Rift Evolutionism.

Up to now, I have posted several paragraphs here as following:

The whole content of Rift Evolutionism ---#11

The Table of contents --- #11

PREFACE
TO THE CHINESE TRADITIONAL VERSION --- (to see
# 125, detailed below)

INTRODUCTION ---(to see # 126, detailed below)

CHAPTER Ⅰ
LIFE ORIGINS FROM RIFT VALLEYS --- #16

1. RIFT VALLEYS --- #110
2. LIFE AND RIFT VALLEYS --- #24

CHAPTER Ⅱ
MECHANISMS OF RIFT EVOLUTION ---#77

1. SMASHING REACTION --- #101
2. VENT REACTION ---#103
3. NITROGEN FIXATION --- #104
4. MOLYBDENUM ENZYME --- #107
5. GENE EMBEDDING --- #108
6. MOLECULE OXYGEN --- #111
7. VOLCANO PUMP --- #113
8. POWERFUL MAGNETIC FIELD --- #114
...

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jun-01, 02:31 AM
PREFACE
TO THE CHINESE TRADITIONAL VERSION

To the scientific monograph, it has become a convention that academician is invited to make a preface. However, I feel rather awkward to prelude for RIFT Evolutionism written by Mr. Sun Tianxi. And Why? Because the content of this book is very extensive and the questions the book advanced are relative significant, but I am hard to deliberate it with limited time.

Mr. Sun Tianxi puts forward a new thesis that life must come from rift valleys, according to the relativity between living beings and rift valleys. The hypothesis tries to seek the origin of life, and to remedy a shortcoming of Darwin’s theory, i.e., to solve such a question Darwin was not solved as following: Where would be life/living beings originated firstly? For this reason, took many years to seek arduously, besides geosciences belonged in his customary specialty, he also studied biology, astronomy, hematology and cloning science etc., quote and prove fully.

Up to now, intersecting, interpenetrating and mutual supplementing is becoming main trend of science. I appreciate him very much for Mr. Sun Tianxi’s seeking through such many ways.

Liang Qichao(1873—1929), the Chinese neoteric ideologist, said that there was no greater suffering to a man than that of backpacking a duty for the future.
Moreover, Sun Tianxi’s deliberation to human’s future did reflect this sense of responsibility. Hence, I decide to make the preface for his RIFT EVOLUTIONISM.

Prof. Chen Jiyu

Academician of
Chinese Academy of Engineering

October 26, 2000
Shanghai, China

sun45114
2006-Jun-01, 02:40 AM
INTRODUCTION

Charles Darwin(Photo-1)(1)asked perplexedly where the origin place of human was when our ancestor diverged from Catarrhini(2).

Charles Darwin was eager to research the exact origin place of human, might as I did, though he did not solved this difficult problem finally. The significance of this exploration should be extraordinary.

If we could make clear about the specific position of human race originating and about the principle of this specific position or this particular “component ” created out human, we can solve some problems such as where Indian came from , whether from America or from Asia(3 , 4), we also can solve the biggest scientific puzzle of entire human that how we human can find our ark , i.e., how we can find some stars possessing such a kind of particular “component”, which might be propitious to us, as soon as possible, before the time the Earth wrecked(5).

Within the vast universe, how negligible the great human would be! Everything the human did would be count for nothing essentially, except to be able to flee from our Earth before its necessarily being ruined, and to flee from our solar system before it’s ruined either…

The dinosaur was deracinated fully, but at least its tall trunk fossils were bequeathed yet. The Maya was deracinated completely, but at least a magical Maya’s calendar was left over. However, if we human were deracinated, say, following our Earth, following our Solar System and following… and then what thing could still be left? Only becoming a dream, a spring dream and even a nightmare, only becoming a curtain of sideshow, a round of illusion and myriads of golden rays…

So long as we could find some stars possessing such a kind of particular “component” that likes in our Earth, which caused the life to originate, we could discover our ark. In there, there might exist or at least had existed some conditions that the life could be alive. We might forestall to arrive these arks before our Earth ruined. Is there any task much important than this one?

...

It was said that(32) Charles Darwin had been an amateurish biologist who not only didn’t teach in any university but also didn’t work at any laboratory, he cut his own fodder to do his science only with his untrained assistants by few equipments. As a non-biological researcher, I also have dabbled in the field of bio-evolution for many years. This situation has been very similar to Charles Darwin.

Although there exist a lot of disputes nowadays(33, 34), Darwin’s evolutionism undoubtedly should be the first milestone in all the bio-evolution theories. But, it wouldn’t be a whole evolutionism because Darwin didn’t clarify where the life and its main kinds being first originated. Any evolutionism must clarify four elements (who, when, where and what) in view of an evolutionism being a kind of history in nature(18).

In fact, the title of my book, Rift Evolutionism, has just exactly pointed out the places of biological system evolving macroscopically. The book cites numerous evolution facts within rift valleys, elaborates 8 mechanisms of rift evolution, thus originating a new bio-evolution hypothesis which were tested and verified in 4 fields in the book and solving such a question Darwin didn't solve as following: Where would first be the life/human originated?

...

The author considers that we can’t equate the cataclysm with “the world doomsday”. To the bio-system, a cataclysm that caused some quondam organisms to a crisis could afford lucky chance for newer phylum. K. J. R. Edward(39), an English scientist, affirmed that the basic cause led to genetic variation should be mutation. “Plate Breaking” was stressed time and again in my book. Isn’t it the biggest cataclysm and the most violent mutation on our Earth? Within continental rift valleys, the places of plate breaking, didn’t it be created out our great human?

The crux of “Rift Evolution” should be “Cataclysm Evolution”. Summarily, there couldn’t be everything today without cataclysm!

...

Whenever look up at the starry sky, I am often deep in meditation: what on earth is the ultimate aim for human?

After my book just finished, it suddenly dawned on me that for any species the existence and the multiply should be in the first place, including human. So that, the most important scientific objective for human should be to find a way out before our Earth is ruined! RIFT EVOLUTIONISM may be a new theory that humans could find water resources, find other lives and find a way out, within the vast universe….

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jun-01, 02:58 AM
how we can find some stars possessing such a kind of particular “component”


Dear All,

I'm sorry to use "star" again in #126.

By 'Rift Star' is meant some planets and moons that possess its rift valleys, such as Venus, Mars and Europa.
(#14)

So, "Star" = Heavenly body.

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jun-01, 09:02 AM
INTRODUCTION

Charles Darwin(Photo-1)(1)asked perplexedly where the origin place of human was when our ancestor diverged from Catarrhini(2).

Charles Darwin was eager to research the exact origin place of human, might as I did, though he did not solved this difficult problem finally. The significance of this exploration should be extraordinary.

If we could make clear about the specific position of human race originating and about the principle of this specific position or this particular “component ” created out human, we can solve some problems such as where Indian came from , whether from America or from Asia(3 , 4), we also can solve the biggest scientific puzzle of entire human that how we human can find our ark , i.e., how we can find some heavenly bodies possessing such a kind of particular “component”, which might be propitious to us, as soon as possible, before the time the Earth wrecked(5).

Within the vast universe, how negligible the great human would be! Everything the human did would be count for nothing essentially, except to be able to flee from our Earth before its necessarily being ruined, and to flee from our solar system before it’s ruined either…

The dinosaur was deracinated fully, but at least its tall trunk fossils were bequeathed yet. The Maya was deracinated completely, but at least a magical Maya’s calendar was left over. However, if we human were deracinated, say, following our Earth, following our Solar System and following… and then what thing could still be left? Only becoming a dream, a spring dream and even a nightmare, only becoming a curtain of sideshow, a round of illusion and myriads of golden rays…

So long as we could find some heavenly bodies possessing such a kind of particular “component” that likes in our Earth, which caused the life to originate, we could discover our ark. In there, there might exist or at least had existed some conditions that the life could be alive. We might forestall to arrive these arks before our Earth ruined. Is there any task much important than this one?

...

It was said that(32) Charles Darwin had been an amateurish biologist who not only didn’t teach in any university but also didn’t work at any laboratory, he cut his own fodder to do his science only with his untrained assistants by few equipments. As a non-biological researcher, I also have dabbled in the field of bio-evolution for many years. This situation has been very similar to Charles Darwin.

Although there exist a lot of disputes nowadays(33, 34), Darwin’s evolutionism undoubtedly should be the first milestone in all the bio-evolution theories. But, it wouldn’t be a whole evolutionism because Darwin didn’t clarify where the life and its main kinds being first originated. Any evolutionism must clarify four elements (who, when, where and what) in view of an evolutionism being a kind of history in nature(18).

In fact, the title of my book, Rift Evolutionism, has just exactly pointed out the places of biological system evolving macroscopically. The book cites numerous evolution facts within rift valleys, elaborates 8 mechanisms of rift evolution, thus originating a new bio-evolution hypothesis which were tested and verified in 4 fields in the book and solving such a question Darwin didn't solve as following: Where would first be the life/human originated?

...

The author considers that we can’t equate the cataclysm with “the world doomsday”. To the bio-system, a cataclysm that caused some quondam organisms to a crisis could afford lucky chance for newer phylum. K. J. R. Edward(39), an English scientist, affirmed that the basic cause led to genetic variation should be mutation. “Plate Breaking” was stressed time and again in my book. Isn’t it the biggest cataclysm and the most violent mutation on our Earth? Within continental rift valleys, the places of plate breaking, didn’t it be created out our great human?

The crux of “Rift Evolution” should be “Cataclysm Evolution”. Summarily, there couldn’t be everything today without cataclysm!

...

Whenever look up at the starry sky, I am often deep in meditation: what on earth is the ultimate aim for human?

After my book just finished, it suddenly dawned on me that for any species the existence and the multiply should be in the first place, including human. So that, the most important scientific objective for human should be to find a way out before our Earth is ruined! RIFT EVOLUTIONISM may be a new theory that humans could find water resources, find other lives and find a way out, within the vast universe….

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

Gillianren
2006-Jun-01, 06:48 PM
Can't resist those colours, can you?

What I would like, please, is not repeated quotes from your book. What I would like is to know how you can believe that human life sprang up in rift valleys all over the world when the weight of evidence is that they only sprang up in one.

sun45114
2006-Jun-02, 04:29 AM
What I would like is to know how you can believe that human life sprang up in rift valleys all over the world when the weight of evidence is that they only sprang up in one.


CHAPTER Ⅲ

EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM


1. RIFT VALLEYS: ORIGIN PLACES OF HUMANKIND


Humankind is a product of evolution. Humankind belongs to Mammalia-Primates-Anthropoid suborder-Hominidae-Homo-Homo sapiens. Starting from Anthropoid suborder, it is generally accepted by evolutionists that the tree trunk of humankind is as follows:

… Amphipithecus and Pondaungia → Aegyptopithecus → Dryopithecus → Sivapithecus → Australopithecus → Homo habilis → Homo erectus → Homo sapiens (Homo sapiens neanderthalensis → Homo sapiens sapiens ) (1).

According to the Rift Evolutionism (Sun Tianxi, 1988(2)), representatives of the various stages along the tree trunk of humankind mentioned above should be expected to be created at first in the continental rift valleys without any exception. This inference is supported by the following facts:

...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese to English.)


Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jun-03, 07:55 AM
the weight of evidence is that they only sprang up in one.

Please list “the weight of evidence”“they only sprang up in one” here.

Gillianren
2006-Jun-03, 09:08 AM
Um, instead of me summarizing archaeoanthropology, why don't you try reading practically any book about human evolution? They'll all show you the evidence. If you haven't, how can we trust your opinions on the subject?

sun45114
2006-Jun-03, 02:44 PM
Um, instead of me summarizing archaeoanthropology, why don't you try reading practically any book about human evolution? They'll all show you the evidence. If you haven't, how can we trust your opinions on the subject?

Dear Gillianren,

So you don't keep any "weight of evidence that they only sprang up in one"! Oh, I see.

Of course, I'll show you later the evidences that "human life sprang up in rift valleys all over the world ". Yep, I shall.

Science is systematical, strict and methodical. Be patient!

In the 3rd Chapter of my book RIFT EVOLUTIONISM, the evidences that "human life sprang up in rift valleys all over the world " will be shown for you!

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

Gillianren
2006-Jun-03, 07:15 PM
Will it explain how your hypothesis contradicts the entire fossil record?

As the person making the extraordinary claim, it is your responsibility to show that you are right and the mainstream is wrong. If you can explain how your hypothesis contradicts the entire fossil record of early hominids (you haven't read any books on the subject, have you?) but is right anyway, fame and fortune should be yours. But you do rather have to address that record first. It would help were you aware it existed.

sun45114
2006-Jun-04, 01:21 AM
CHAPTER Ⅲ

EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM

1. RIFT VALLEYS: ORIGIN PLACES OF HUMANKIND

... (please see #130)

1. Amphipithecus and Pondaungia

As early as in the 1920’s(3), fossils of jawbones of Amphipithecus mongaungensis were found in Fayum district of Egypt, just located in Rift Valleys of East Africa (fig. 3-1).

In other continental rift valleys such as Panxi Rift were also found the hitherto age-oldest fossils of Anthropoid (fig. 3-2). In 1978, fossils of mandibles and teeth of Pondaungia and Amphipithecus living 44 million years ago were excavated from Pondaung Hill of North Burma lying south-west of Panxi Rift by Burmese and US scientists(4). In 1985, Russell Ciochon et al., who were Palaeo-anthropologists of the New York State University, discovered fossils of incisor teeth of these anthropoid apes in the same district(3) (fig. 3-2). They considered that Amphipithecus should be the oldest known anthropoid and Pondaungia should also belong to this kind(3).

...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)


Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jun-05, 12:29 PM
CHAPTER Ⅲ

EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM

1. RIFT VALLEYS: ORIGIN PLACES OF HUMANKIND

... (please see #130)

1. Amphipithecus and Pondaungia

... (please see #135)

2. Aegyptopithecus

Aegyptopithecus was as small as a home cat and looked very timid(3).

Since 1967, twelve pieces of mandible fossils from Aegyptopithecus have been unearthed in the Fayum district of Egypt situated at the northern end of The East African Rift Valleys. It is believed that these fossils have lasted 26 million ~ 28 million years(3, 5), please see fig. 3-1.

...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

Xbalanque
2006-Jun-05, 04:03 PM
CHAPTER Ⅲ

EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM

1. RIFT VALLEYS: ORIGIN PLACES OF HUMANKIND

... (please see #130)

1. Amphipithecus and Pondaungia

As early as in the 1920’s(3), fossils of jawbones of Amphipithecus mongaungensis were found in Fayum district of Egypt, just located in Rift Valleys of East Africa (fig. 3-1).

In other continental rift valleys such as Panxi Rift were also found the hitherto age-oldest fossils of Anthropoid (fig. 3-2). In 1978, fossils of mandibles and teeth of Pondaungia and Amphipithecus living 44 million years ago were excavated from Pondaung Hill of North Burma lying south-west of Panxi Rift by Burmese and US scientists(4). In 1985, Russell Ciochon et al., who were Palaeo-anthropologists of the New York State University, discovered fossils of incisor teeth of these anthropoid apes in the same district(3) (fig. 3-2). They considered that Amphipithecus should be the oldest known anthropoid and Pondaungia should also belong to this kind(3).
All that does is suggest these specimens are ancestral anthropoids in the region. There is no evidence to suggest they were ancestral to hominids. There are enough species of monkeys (members of Anthropoidea) in Southeast Asia to be possible descendents, but where is the evidence of human descent? The presence of ancient anthropoids is not sufficient in and of itself.

sun45114
2006-Jun-06, 01:54 AM
All that does is suggest these specimens are ancestral anthropoids in the region. There is no evidence to suggest they were ancestral to hominids. There are enough species of monkeys (members of Anthropoidea) in Southeast Asia to be possible descendents, but where is the evidence of human descent? The presence of ancient anthropoids is not sufficient in and of itself.

Dear Xbalanque,

1. Please first read #130, I didn't count "Amphipithecus and Pondaungia" as hominids. Note that "Starting from Anthropoid suborder..." please.

2. hominids starts "Australopithecus". I'll talk about it in "5." later.

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

Xbalanque
2006-Jun-06, 03:17 AM
CHAPTER Ⅲ

EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM


1. RIFT VALLEYS: ORIGIN PLACES OF HUMANKIND


Humankind is a product of evolution. Humankind belongs to Mammalia-Primates-Anthropoid suborder-Hominidae-Homo-Homo sapiens. Starting from Anthropoid suborder, it is generally accepted by evolutionists that the tree trunk of humankind is as follows:

… Amphipithecus and Pondaungia → Aegyptopithecus → Dryopithecus → Sivapithecus → Australopithecus → Homo habilis → Homo erectus → Homo sapiens (Homo sapiens neanderthalensis → Homo sapiens sapiens ) (1).
This is misleading. You are making it look like a straight-line progression from Amphipithecus through to Homo sapiens sapiens. Some australopithecines were evolutionary dead-ends*, you don't have a place for Ardipethicus ramidus, Orrorin tugenensis, and certain others in your genealogy. That your list is more or less temporally correct does not mean it is correct from an evolutionary standpoint. In other words, some of these branched into other species you don't have listed, making it look like this is the correct order, when in fact there's no evidence for it. Sivapithecus is considered to be in subfamily Ponginae, which makes it the likely ancestor of orangutans. How does that also make Sivapithecus an evolutionary ancestor of Australopithecus, which is in subfamily Homininae? You stated as a fact that your list is the generally accepted one, but this is quite untrue.

*Actually, they all were but I was thinking more along the lines of Australopithecus branching off into Paranthropus instead of Homo.

Xbalanque
2006-Jun-06, 03:22 AM
Dear Xbalanque,

1. Please first read #130, I didn't count "Amphipithecus and Pondaungia" as hominids. Note that "Starting from Anthropoid suborder..." please.

2. hominids starts "Australopithecus". I'll talk about it in "5." later.

Hominids do not, in fact, begin with Australopithecus. Your information is several years out of date. Sahelanthropus tchadensis, Orrorin tugenensis, and Ardipithecus ramidus are all older hominids than Australopithecus. In fact, some paleoanthropologists don't even consider australopithecines to be direct ancestors of humans.

sun45114
2006-Jun-06, 06:00 AM
Hominids do not, in fact, begin with Australopithecus. Your information is several years out of date. Sahelanthropus tchadensis, Orrorin tugenensis, and Ardipithecus ramidus are all older hominids than Australopithecus. In fact, some paleoanthropologists don't even consider australopithecines to be direct ancestors of humans.

Dear Xbalanque,

1. Yep, no final conclusion has yet been reached on this matter. In fact, free contentions among different schools in science are setting off in the world now.It is hard to wait an established theory in paleoanthropology in the near future.

2. So, as a Rift Evolutionist, I would rather hold aloof from controversies over these differing opinions. The crux of the matter lies in that, no matter the age-oldest fossils of Australopithecus, or "Sahelanthropus tchadensis", or "Orrorin tugenensis" and or "Ardipithecus ramidus ", did they indeed spring up in rift valleys?

3. As to Sivapithecus, I have pointed out in "3. Sivapithecus" that "Although most scholars have asserted to cast away such an idea that Sivapithecus should be the remote ancestor of humankind, some others still insist it yet(10)."

4. Please give detailed developments about "Sahelanthropus tchadensis, Orrorin tugenensis, and Ardipithecus ramidus " to us, thank you very much!

5. I'll continuously perfect my theory of Rift Evolutionism with the newest achievements in science. Welcome your advices!

6. Up to now, my judgment (RIFT VALLEYS: ORIGIN PLACES OF HUMANKIND) is still tenable.

Sincerely yours,

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

Xbalanque
2006-Jun-06, 02:23 PM
I'm not going to do your research for you. You need to read up on the latest hypotheses and fossil discoveries and decide if they fit into your hypothesis. You cannot "hold aloof" from current controversies when those controversies demonstrate the serious problems with your hypothesis. Your hypothesis is only tenable in that the African Rift Valley is the origin place of humans, which is not in dispute by anthropologists. You've yet to provide any real evidence of humans evolving separately anywhere else, such as in Asia. As I pointed out in my post #139, you are cherry-picking African and Asian primate fossils to make it appear your hypothesis is tenable. The presence of anthropoids does not automatically mean the presence of hominids.

Xbalanque
2006-Jun-06, 02:34 PM
1. Yep, no final conclusion has yet been reached on this matter. In fact, free contentions among different schools in science are setting off in the world now.It is hard to wait an established theory in paleoanthropology in the near future.

2. So, as a Rift Evolutionist, I would rather hold aloof from controversies over these differing opinions. The crux of the matter lies in that, no matter the age-oldest fossils of Australopithecus, or "Sahelanthropus tchadensis", or "Orrorin tugenensis" and or "Ardipithecus ramidus ", did they indeed spring up in rift valleys?
This is worth repeating. You need to read up on the latest information in paleoanthropological research before you can try to think up alternatives. I'm sorry that you are impatient for an established theory on human origins. Anthropologists would also like for there to be one. But that doesn't mean you can make up your own while waiting to see what the mainstream does.

As we have seen so many times, someone with an ATM idea wants to overturn the mainstream but doesn't want to go through the trouble of learning about the mainstream. You need to explain the data better than the mainstream does, but you aren't even current on the data.

The real crux of the matter is, even if these species evolved in a rift valley, they evolved in the same rift valley system, in Africa, and nowhere else. Where is the evidence for independently evolving hominids elsewhere?

sun45114
2006-Jun-06, 03:50 PM
The real crux of the matter is, even if these species evolved in a rift valley, they evolved in the same rift valley system, in Africa, and nowhere else. Where is the evidence for independently evolving hominids elsewhere?

Dear Xbalanque,

1. Oh, You at least have tacitly approved one of the my judgment that East Africa Rift valley should be the origin place of Humans and its all the ancestors. Don't you? Please note that this judgment comes from my theory Rift Evolutionism, but any others!

2. As to other rifts such as Panxi Rift in China sprang up humans, I'll show for you later one by one. Don't worry! Science is systematical, strict and methodical. Be patient!

...

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jun-06, 03:59 PM
CHAPTER Ⅲ

EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM


1. RIFT VALLEYS: ORIGIN PLACES OF HUMANKIND

... (Please see # 130, #135 and #136)

3. Dryopithecus

Dryopithecus, who is also called Forest Palaeo-ape in China, are of many different kinds. Of which, Proconsul africanus who living 20 Ma is generally thought to be the age-oldest one. Species of Proconsul had features that suggest a close link to the common ancestor of apes and humans — for example, the lack of a tail(155*).

In 1948, an almost intact fossilized skull of Proconsul africanus was found by the palaeo-anthropologist Mary Leakey on Rusinga Island of Kenya. A few years later, about 60% of another fossilized skeleton was found nearby. In 1984, scientists of Johns Hopkins University of the United States and National Museum of Kenya discovered five fossilized skeletons from Proconsul africanus living 18 Ma on the same island(6).

It must be emphasized that Rusinga Island of Kenya is just situated within Rift Valleys of East Africa (fig. 3-1).

...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

Xbalanque
2006-Jun-06, 06:52 PM
Dear Xbalanque,

1. Oh, You at least have tacitly approved one of the my judgment that East Africa Rift valley should be the origin place of Humans and its all the ancestors. Don't you? Please note that this judgment comes from my theory Rift Evolutionism, but any others!

I haven't approved anything, tacitly or not. I hate to break this to you, but paleoanthropologists have known to search in the African Rift Valley long before you imagined your Rift Evolutionism hypothesis. They search in the ARV because that is where the fossils are. But they also search in South Africa, in limestone caves that are not part of the ARV (and where many of those Australopithecus fossils you are so fond of come from) and they search in North Central Africa, which is not part of the ARV. Just because the ARV yields numerous fossils is not confirmation of your hypothesis, because you've yet to demonstrate anything beyond cherry picking and handwaving.

Gillianren
2006-Jun-07, 02:07 AM
I haven't approved anything, tacitly or not. I hate to break this to you, but paleoanthropologists have known to search in the African Rift Valley long before you imagined your Rift Evolutionism hypothesis. They search in the ARV because that is where the fossils are. But they also search in South Africa, in limestone caves that are not part of the ARV (and where many of those Australopithecus fossils you are so fond of come from) and they search in North Central Africa, which is not part of the ARV. Just because the ARV yields numerous fossils is not confirmation of your hypothesis, because you've yet to demonstrate anything beyond cherry picking and handwaving.

Pretty much what I was going to say. Actually, what I was going to say was "Your theory?"

Yes, there is evidence for human origins in the African Rift Valley. None of us have disputed this. What we'd like to consider your hypothesis would be evidence that humans had origins in any other rift valley on Earth.

sun45114
2006-Jun-07, 03:38 AM
Your hypothesis is only tenable in that the African Rift Valley is the origin place of humans, which is not in dispute by anthropologists.

Dear Xbalanque,

1. You said:"I haven't approved anything"!

But, You forget your talking yesterday "Your hypothesis is only tenable in that the African Rift Valley is the origin place of humans, which is not in dispute by anthropologists."(see #142). Don't you?!? any bad memory?!?

2. You said :"I hate to break this to you"!

Why hate?! In this ATM, every person should treat others as equals, with friendly, discussing for science truth; or otherwise. You aren't a judge, any ATM person isn't a prisoner!

3. You said:"paleoanthropologists have known to search in the African Rift Valley long before you imagined your Rift Evolutionism hypothesis. "

Yep, in a sense. Because "paleoanthropologists have known to search in the African Rift Valley" not with realizing the relationship between Human origin and rift valley, not with understanging the mechanisms of rift evolution that only I put forward (see #77, #101, #103, #104, #107, #108, #111, #113 and #114). In some significance, their searching had some blindness in science action without guiding by a correct theory. So, lacking farsightedness although their achievements were very great!

4. You said:"But they also search in South Africa, in limestone caves that are not part of the ARV (and where many of those Australopithecus fossils you are so fond of come from)."

Yes, But these fossils' age are not the oldest, so South Africa shouldn't be the origin place of Australopithecus!

5. You said:" and they search in North Central Africa, which is not part of the ARV."

Yes, but there is another rift in Chad, central Africa. Aren't you know it?! May be you are a good paleoanthropologist, I suggest you study a bit of Geology especially Plate Tectonics. As to the rift in Chad, I had planned to talk about it in "5. Australopithecus" later. You needn't have worried about it!

"Don't worry! Science is systematical, strict and methodical. Be patient!" I say again and again!...

...

See you later!

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

cjl
2006-Jun-07, 04:17 AM
Actually, one of the oldest distinctly hominid fossils was not found remotely close to the rift valley. In north central/northwestern africa, a 7 million year old hominid skull was found, far older than much of the material found in the rift valley.

sun45114
2006-Jun-07, 04:52 AM
Actually, one of the oldest distinctly hominid fossils was not found remotely close to the rift valley. In north central/northwestern africa, a 7 million year old hominid skull was found, far older than much of the material found in the rift valley.

Dear cjl,

Yep, but still along another rift in Chad.

The part of "5. Australopithecus" is shown in advance as follows:

The outstanding work by Michel Brunet from France and Franck Guy and David Pilbeam from the United States and others was given out in Nature on 11 July 2002:

“Here we report the discovery of six hominid specimens from Chad, central Africa, 2,500 km from The East African Rift Valley. The fossils include a nearly complete cranium and fragmentary lower jaws. The associated fauna suggest the fossils are between 6 and 7 million years old.” (Color Fig. 1~2, showed in COLOUR PAGES) (15)

“All six known specimens of the early hominid Sahelanthropus tchadensis come from Toros-Menalla site 266 (TM 266), a single locality in the Djurab Desert, northern Chad, central Africa.” (16)

It is worth to notice that the search for the earliest fossil evidence of the human lineage has been concentrated in East Africa, but the Sahelanthropus tchadensis is now found in Chad, central Africa, 2,500 km from The East African Rift Valley! Please notice that Here, Toros-Menalla site, is just within a nameless rift valley, which is shown fig. 3-1. The nameless rift valley had lined out in Evolution of the Earth (New York: p.403) wrote by Robert H. Dott, JR. et al. in 1976(17)and also had lined out in Rift Evolutionism (in Chinese traditional version, Hong Kong: p.25) wrote by Sun Tianxi, the author of this book, in 2001(18).

It is time to give a resonant name for the nameless rift valley! Please allow me give this nameless rift valley a name called “Toumai Rift”. That is because Sahelanthropus tchadensis is nicknamed by some anthropologists as “Toumai”, which is meant “life’s hope” in Chad jargons(19). Yes, up to now, the oldest hominid fossils are just found in this rift, didn’t reflect out the hopes of life?

It is worth to point out that the judgment that human segregated from ape 7.5 Ma(20、21) coincides with the one that Australopithecus was the earliest member in Hominidae. The Sahelanthropus tchadensis, the newest find in Toumai Rift mentioned above confirmed this judgment.

...

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

teddyv
2006-Jun-07, 08:14 PM
2. You said :"I hate to break this to you"!

Why hate?! In this ATM, every person should treat others as equals, with friendly, discussing for science truth; or otherwise. You aren't a judge, any ATM person isn't a prisoner!

This is a figure of speech. It is not a literal "hate" of you personally. Just another confusion between languages.:)

sun45114
2006-Jun-08, 08:56 AM
This is a figure of speech. It is not a literal "hate" of you personally. Just another confusion between languages.:)

Dear teddyv,

Thank you!

sun45114
2006-Jun-08, 03:12 PM
CHAPTER Ⅲ

EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM


1. RIFT VALLEYS: ORIGIN PLACES OF HUMANKIND

...(Please see #130, #135, #136 and #145)

4. Sivapithecus

Sivapithecus and Ramapithecus belonged to the hermaphroditism, the former was male and
the latter female. They was evolved from a kind of Dryopithecus about 15 Ma(7). Although their fossils were found first in Pakistan in 1932, the age-oldest one (14 Ma) was unearthed in Kaiyuan County of Yunnan Province, P.R. of China(8).

As shown in Fig. 3-2, Kaiyuan County is exactly situated in Panxi Rift. Therefore, the author believes beyond doubt that Sivapithecus should be originated in Panxi Rift.

It is necessary to point out that the fossils of Sivapithecus who were found outside of China all belong to some jawbones and teeth; and three fossils of Sivapithecus who were found in (Lufeng Village of) Kaiyuan County within Panxi Rift belong to cranium(9).

Although most scholars have asserted to cast away such an idea that Sivapithecus should be the remote ancestor of humankind, some others still insist it yet(10).

......(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jun-09, 03:55 AM
Yes, there is evidence for human origins in the African Rift Valley. None of us have disputed this. What we'd like to consider your hypothesis would be evidence that humans had origins in any other rift valley on Earth.


CHAPTER Ⅲ

EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM


1. RIFT VALLEYS: ORIGIN PLACES OF HUMANKIND

...(Please see #130, #135, #136 , #145 and #153)

5. Australopithecus

By around 6 million years ago in Africa, an apelike species had evolved with two important traits that distinguished it from apes: (1) small canine, or eye, teeth (teeth next to the four incisors, or front teeth) and (2) bipedalism—that is, walking on two legs as the primary form of locomotion. Scientists refer to these earliest human species as australopithecines, or australopiths for short(156*).

An US anthropologist Donald C. Johanson and a France geologist Maurice Taieb found a fossilized woman skeleton in Hadar, Afar district of Ethiopia within Rift Valleys of East Africa in 1974. This skeleton, later named Lucy, had lasted 3.5 million years. In 1975, a large number of fossils of Hominidae were excavated in the same area, representing 13 persons of both sexes as well as of young and old ages, referred to as members of “The First Family”. In 1978, Donald C. Johanson and Timothy White from the United States and Yves Coppens from France reached unanimity of views on that all the fossils mentioned above should belong to a new species of Australopithecus, namely “Australopithecus afarensis” (1). They believed they had found “the undoubtedly age-oldest member of Hominidae”. In 1999, some scientists also found another fossil of a women cranium contemporaneous to Lucy(11). A controversy arises from the claim that A. afarensis was the common ancestor of both later australopiths and the modern human genus, Homo. While this idea remains a strong possibility, the similarity between this and another australopith species—one from southern Africa, named Australopithecus africanus—makes it difficult to decide which of the two species gave rise to the genus Homo(158*).

However, Mary and Richard Leakey insisted on the proposition that the hometown of the earliest fossils of Hominidae should be Tanzania rather than Ethiopia, because these scientists in 1976 had found foot prints left by 3 members of Hominidae living 3.5~3.6 Ma in Laetoli district located in the vicinity of Lake Eyasi of North Tanzania within Rift Valleys of East Africa(1). Nonetheless, the Palaeo-anthropologist Russell Tuttle from Chicago University stated with certainty that the host of these footprints was not at all Palaeo-Hominidae but rather a bear!

It is interesting that a group of scientists led by the anthropologist Andrew Hill from Harvard University excavated in February of 1984 a fossilized jawbone of Hominidae believed to live 5 Ma in Tabarin of Kenya within Rift Valleys of East Africa. Therefore, they claimed that only Tabarin could be the source of Australopithecus(12).

In 1994 an Ethiopian member of a research team led by American paleoanthropologist Tim White discovered human fossils estimated to be about 4.4 million years old in Afar, Ethiopia within Rift Valleys of East Africa. White and his colleagues gave their discovery the name Ardipithecus ramidus. Ramid means “root” in the Afar language of Ethiopia and refers to the closeness of this new species to the roots of humanity. At the time of this discovery, the genus Australopithecus was scientifically well established. White devised the genus name Ardipithecus to distinguish this new species from other australopiths because its fossils had a very ancient combination of apelike and humanlike traits. More recent finds indicate that this species may have lived as early as 5.8 million to 5.2 million years ago. It has been suggested, however, that these older fossils may represent a related species called Ardipithecus kadabba.

The teeth of Ardipithecus ramidus had a thin outer layer of enamel—a trait also seen in the African apes but not in other australopith species or most older fossil apes. This trait suggests a fairly close relationship with an ancestor of the African apes. In addition, the skeleton shows strong similarities to that of a chimpanzee but has slightly reduced canine teeth and adaptations for bipedalism(157*).

In December 2000, some scientists from France and Kenya found “by then the oldest fossils of Hominidae” named Orrorin tugenensis lived 6~6.2 Ma in Kenya within The East African Rift Valleys(13,157*). In 2001, these scientists laid out 14 remains mentioned above in Paris(14).

Among the finds were two thighbones that possess a groove indicative of an upright stance and bipedal walking. Although the finds are still being studied, the researchers consider these thighbones to be the oldest evidence of habitual two-legged walking. Fossilized bones from other parts of the skeleton show apelike features, including long, curved finger bones useful for strong grasping and movement through trees, and apelike canine and premolar teeth. Because of this distinctive combination of ape and human traits, the researchers gave a new genus and species name to these fossils, Orrorin tugenensis, which in the local language means “original man in the Tugen region.” The age of these fossils suggests that the divergence of humans from our common ancestor with chimpanzees occurred before 6 million years ago(157*).

It must be emphasized that an outstanding work by Michel Brunet from France and Franck Guy and David Pilbeam from the United States and others was given out in Nature on 11 July 2002:

“Here we report the discovery of six hominid specimens from Chad, central Africa, 2,500 km from The East African Rift Valley. The fossils include a nearly complete cranium and fragmentary lower jaws. The associated fauna suggest the fossils are between 6 and 7 million years old.” (Color Fig. 1~2, showed in COLOUR PAGES) (15)

“All six known specimens of the early hominid Sahelanthropus tchadensis come from Toros-Menalla site 266 (TM 266), a single locality in the Djurab Desert, northern Chad, central Africa.” (16)

One of the fossils is a cracked yet nearly complete cranium that shows a combination of apelike and humanlike features. Apelike features include small brain size, an elongated brain case, and areas of bone where strong neck muscles would have attached. Humanlike features include small, flat canine teeth, a short middle part of the face, and a massive brow ridge (a bony, protruding ridge above the eyes) similar to that of later human fossils. The opening where the spinal cord attaches to the brain is tucked under the brain case, which suggests that the head was balanced on an upright body. It is not certain that Sahelanthropus walked bipedally, however, because bones from the rest of its skeleton have yet to be discovered. Nonetheless, its age and humanlike characteristics suggest that the human and African ape lineages had divided from one another by at least 6 million years ago(157*).

It is worth to notice that the search for the earliest fossil evidence of the human lineage has been concentrated in East Africa, but the Sahelanthropus tchadensis is now found in Chad, central Africa, 2,500 km from The East African Rift Valley! Please notice that here, Toros-Menalla site, is just within a nameless rift valley, which is shown fig. 3-1. The nameless rift valley had lined out in Evolution of the Earth (New York: p.403) wrote by Robert H. Dott, JR. et al. in 1976(17)and also had lined out in Rift Evolutionism (in Chinese traditional version, Hong Kong: p.25) wrote by Sun Tianxi, the author of this book, in 2001(18).

It is time to give a resonant name for the nameless rift valley! Please allow me give this nameless rift valley a name called “Toumai Rift”. That is because Sahelanthropus tchadensis is nicknamed by some anthropologists as “Toumai”, which is meant “life’s hope” in Chad jargons(19). Yes, up to now, the oldest hominid fossils are just found in this rift, didn’t reflect out the hopes of life?

It is worth to point out that the judgment that human segregated from ape 7.5 Ma(20、21) coincides with the one that Australopithecus was the earliest member in Hominidae. The Sahelanthropus tchadensis, the newest find in Toumai Rift mentioned above confirmed this judgment.

Scientists have several ideas about why australopiths first split off from the apes, initiating the course of human evolution. Virtually all hypotheses suggest that environmental change was an important factor, specifically in influencing the evolution of bipedalism. Some well-established ideas about why humans first evolved include: (1) the savanna hypothesis, (2) the woodland-mosaic hypothesis, and (3) the variability hypothesis(159*). Here, maybe plus my hypothesis of Rift Evolutionism (see Chapter II)!

To sum up, the earliest australopith species known today belong to three genera: Sahelanthropus, Orrorin, and Ardipithecus. Of which, the two (Orrorin and Ardipithecus) sprang up from Rift Valleys of East Africa, and the one (Sahelanthropus) originated in “Toumai Rift” I named 2,500 km from the East African Rift Valley. This is the weight of evidence that they didn’t only spring up from one continental rift valley, and that all independently evolved.

Some rift valleys were big, and some small; the action of rift evolution undergone in some rift valleys was strong, and some weak. So, the time when human sprang up from some rift valleys was earlier, and some later.

Research interesting and research degree to some rift valley was very deep, and rather superficial to others; some country’s funds for the research of human origin were very plenitudinous, and some rather deficient. So, the finding about human origin place in some rift valley was found frequently, and some rather rare even missing order.

I therefore appeal to paleoanthropologists of all countries to turn their eyes on other continental rift valleys especially Panxi Rift in Asia and west Rifts in South and North America to find out the age-oldest fossils of australopithecines there.

...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jun-11, 02:23 PM
Space Exploration and Rift Evolutionism

It seems so facetious that we discuss paleoanthropology in NASA Forum. 

Is there any relationship between Space Exploration and Rift Evolutionism?

If Rift Evolutionism will be testified by facts on our Earth, we could use it to seek for Mars life and so on, I think.

If continental rift valleys on Earth were indeed the sources of Humans even the life, we should suggest the landing site of Phoenix onto Valles Marineris to unearth possible Martian fossils, which may locate on terraces within this valley(see #74)…

So, I hope scientists all of the world to join this discussion, with rigorous scientific approach. To create a correct theory, after all, is our common cause.

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

Gillianren
2006-Jun-13, 01:48 AM
It seems so facetious that we discuss paleoanthropology in NASA Forum.

Well, it might, if you were using the word "facetious" correctly or if this were a NASA forum.

sun45114
2006-Jun-15, 05:04 PM
CHAPTER Ⅲ

EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM


1. RIFT VALLEYS: ORIGIN PLACES OF HUMANKIND

...(Please see #130, #135, #136 , #145 , #153 and #154)


6. Homo habilis


Round about 2 ~3 Ma, with the increase in brain capacity and stature as well as the use of
stone implements, early Homo emerged on the Earth.

Paleoanthropologists generally recognize two species of early Homo—Homo habilis and H. rudolfensis (although other species may also have existed). The two groups resemble each other.

Scientists do not know exactly what factors favored the evolution of a larger and more complex brain—the defining physical trait of modern humans.

Louis Leakey originally argued that the origin of Homo related directly to the development of toolmaking—specifically, the making of stone tools. Toolmaking requires certain mental skills and fine hand manipulation that may exist only in members of our own genus. Indeed, the name Homo habilis (meaning“handy man”) refers directly to the making and use of tools(160*).

However, several species of australopiths lived at the same time as early Homo, making it unclear which species produced the earliest stone tools. Recent studies of australopith hand bones have suggested that at least one of the robust species, Australopithecus robustus, could have made tools. In addition, during the 1960s and 1970s researchers first observed that some nonhuman primates, such as chimpanzees, make and use tools, suggesting that australopiths and the apes that preceded them probably also made some kinds of tools(160*).

According to some scientists, however, early Homo probably did make the first stone tools. The ability to cut and pound foods would have been most useful to these smaller-toothed humans, whereas the robust australopiths could chew even very tough foods. Furthermore, early humans continued to make stone tools similar to the oldest known kinds for a time long after the gracile australopiths died out(160*).

In 1977, Prof. John W. K. Harris of US scientist excavated 48 sharp stone knives and 3 large stone axes in Afar of Ethiopia. The results of survey showed that these stone implements have lasted 2.7 ~ 2.9 million years and were considered to be the age-oldest man-made tools hitherto known(22). Moreover, over 2 000 stone tools made of stone flakes, the oldest “tools factory” lasted 2.34 Ma, were found in Kenya(23). This conclusion has not yet been repudiated. Are we justified to say that Rift Valleys of East Africa is the hometown of the age-oldest artificial tools?

If this be true, the users of these tools-early Homo should emerge from the Rift Valleys of East Africa, of course.

Between 1960 and 1963, at Olduvai Gorge, Tanzania, a team led by Louis and Mary Leakey discovered the remains of an early human that seemed distinctly different from the australopiths. In 1964 Louis Leakey, South African paleoanthropologist Philip Tobias, and British primate researcher John Napier concluded that these remains represented a new species, which they named Homo habilis. The scientists placed the species in the genus Homo because its brain was estimated to be significantly larger than that of any known australopith. According to recent estimates, H. habilis had a brain volume that ranged from 590 to 690 cu cm (36 to 42 cu in), well above the range for australopithecines. H. habilis lived in eastern Africa between about 1.9 million and 1.6 million years ago, and maybe as early as 2.4 million years ago(160*).

In 1986, fossilized bones of limbs and fragments of the skull of an adult woman believed to be Homo habilis were found in the Oldeany Valley of Tanzania. This woman lived about 2 Ma(24).

Some of the earliest stone tools from Olduvai have been found with H. habilis fossils, suggesting that this species made and used the tools at this site(160*).

The second species of early Homo was given the name Homo rudolfensis, after Lake Rudolf (now Lake Turkana). The best-known fossils of H. rudolfensis come from the area surrounding this lake and date from about 1.9 million years ago. This species had a larger face and body than did H. habilis. The cranial capacity of H. rudolfensis averaged about 750 cu cm (46 cu in) (160*).


Obviously, Oldeany Valley and Lake Turkana are also situated in Rift Valleys of East Africa (Fig. 3-1). For this reason, it seems to be beyond doubt that the earliest H. habilis and H. rudolfensis too did spring up in the continental rift valleys.

...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jun-17, 10:04 AM
What I would like is to know how you can believe that human life sprang up in rift valleys all over the world when the weight of evidence is that they only sprang up in one.


CHAPTER Ⅲ

EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM

...(Please see #11 and #130)

1. RIFT VALLEYS: ORIGIN PLACES OF HUMANKIND

...(Please see #135, #136 , #145 , #153 , #154 and #157)


7. Homo erectus


Many now recognize three species of middle Homo: H. ergaster, H. erectus, and H. heidelbergensis. However, some still think H. ergaster is an early African form of H. erectus, or that H. heidelbergensis is a late form of H. erectus(161*).

(1)H. ergaster

Homo ergaster probably first evolved around 2 million years ago(161*).

Richard Leakey found a rather complete fossilized skull of Homo ergaster (KNMER 3733) in Koobi Fora on the east shore of Lake Turkana in Kenya within Rift Valleys of East Africa between 1974~1975. This fossil has lasted 1.3~1.6 million years. In 1984, the same investigator excavated an almost complete fossilized skeleton of Homo ergaster living 1.55 Ma in Nariokotome on the west shore of Lake Turkana(7, 161*) (see Fig.3-1).

It must be emphasized that the oldest humanlike fossils have also been classified as H. ergaster, dated around 1.75 million years old. These finds, from the Dmanisi site in the southern Caucasus Mountains of Georgia(161*) within Great Caucasus Rift System(162*), consist of several crania, jaws, and other fossilized bones. Some of these are strikingly like East African H. ergaster, but others are smaller or larger than H. ergaster, suggesting a high degree of variation within a single population(161*). This is another weight of evidence that Humans didn’t only spring up from Rift Valleys of East Africa, and that all independently evolved.

(2)H. erectus

In 1891 Dutch physician Eugène Dubois found the cranium of an early human on the Indonesian island of Java. He named this early human Pithecanthropus erectus, or “erect ape-man.” Today paleoanthropologists refer to this species as Homo erectus. The youngest known fossils of this species, from the Solo River in Java, may date from as recently as 53,000 to 27,000 years ago (although that dating is controversial) (161*).

H. erectus had a low and rounded braincase that was elongated from front to back, a prominent brow ridge, and an adult cranial capacity of 800 to 1,250 cu cm (50 to 80 cu in), an average twice that of the australopiths. Its bones, including the cranium, were thicker than those of earlier species. Prominent muscle markings and thick, reinforced areas on the bones of H. erectus indicate that its body could withstand powerful movements and stresses. Although it had much smaller teeth than did the australopiths, it had a heavy and strong jaw(161*).

The oldest fossil of H. erectus in China is the Yuanmou Man of Yunnan Province of China within Panxi Rift (see Fig. 3-2). The fossil of Yuanmou Man has been testified to last 1.7 million years(36). The earlier East Asian populations could have given rise to H. sapiens(161*).

(3)H. heidelbergensis

A growing number of scientists refer to these who predated both Neandertals and H. sapiens in the region as H. heidelbergensis. The species name comes from a 500,000-year-old jaw found near Heidelberg, Germany(161*).

Scientists have found few human fossils in Africa for the period between 1.2 million and 600,000 years ago. Populations of H. ergaster (or possibly H. erectus) appear to have lived until at least 800,000 years ago in Africa, and possibly until 500,000 years ago in northern Africa. When these populations disappeared, other massive-boned and larger-brained humans—possibly H. heidelbergensis—appear to have replaced them. Scientists have found fossils of these stockier humans at sites in Bodo, Ethiopia; Ndutu, Tanzania, etc(161*).

Scientists have come up with at least three different interpretations of these African fossils. Some scientists place the fossils in the species H. heidelbergensis and think that this species gave rise to both the Neandertals (in Europe) and H. sapiens (in Africa). Others think that the European and African fossils belong to two distinct species, and that the African populations—which, in this view, were not H. heidelbergensis but a separate species—gave rise to H. sapiens. Yet other scientists advocate a long-held view that H. erectus and H. sapiens belong to a single evolving lineage, and that the African fossils belong in the category of archaic H. sapiens (archaic meaning not fully anatomically modern) (161*).

The fossil evidence does not clearly favor any of these three interpretations over another. A growing number of fossils from Asia, Africa, and Europe have features that are intermediate between early H. ergaster and H. sapiens. This kind of variation makes it hard to decide how to identify distinct species and to determine which group of fossils represents the most likely ancestor of later humans(161*).



It should be pointed out that mankind learned to use fire during this period. Ancient cooking ranges which may date back to 1.4 Ma and are considered to be the earliest testimony of using fire by mankind were found near the Lake Victoria within Rift Valleys of East Africa in 1989 by US paleoanthropologists.

It is worth to point out that middle Homo existed globally: 1.55 Ma in Lake Turkana within Rift Valleys of East Africa; 1.75 Ma from the Dmanisi site in Georgia within Great Caucasus Rift System; and 1.7 Ma from Yuanmou in Yunnan Province of China within Panxi Rift. In this period, middle Homo in Africa was originated, according to known fossils, much later than that in Asia. Why did some scientists say “the period of middle Homo had begun in Africa” (161*)?

Moreover, the first known Acheulean tools in Africa date from later than the earliest known human presence in Asia, which can’t explain “the spread out of Africa” neither(161*).

...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jun-18, 03:37 PM
Well, it might, if you were using the word "facetious" correctly or if this were a NASA forum.

1. Astronomers should study geology of our Earth, paleoanthropology of our Earth and evolution of our Earth.
Our Earth does be a celestial body, just as Mars you have been paying close attention to!

2. Only know our Earth, you can know Venus and Mars deeply; and only know paleoanthropology, you can know all lives today lucidly; as well as only know evolutionism, you can look far ahead and aim high.

3. Up to now, intersecting, interpenetrating and mutual supplementing is becoming main trend of science. Please don't research Astronomy isolatedly.
...

sun45114
2006-Jun-19, 12:40 PM
Your hypothesis is only tenable in that the African Rift Valley is the origin place of humans, which is not in dispute by anthropologists. You've yet to provide any real evidence of humans evolving separately anywhere else.


CHAPTER Ⅲ

EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM

...(Please see #11 and #130)

1. RIFT VALLEYS: ORIGIN PLACES OF HUMANKIND

...(Please see #135, #136 , #145 , #153 , #154 ,#157 and #158)


8. Homo sapiens

The origin of our own species, Homo sapiens, is one of the most hotly debated topics in paleoanthropology. This debate centers on whether or not modern humans have a direct relationship to H. erectus or to the Neandertals, a well-known, more modern group of humans who evolved within the past 250,000 years. Paleoanthropologists commonly use the term anatomically modern Homo sapiens to distinguish people of today from these similar predecessors(166*).

Homo sapiens is commonly divided into two types: Homo sapiens neanderthalensis (the Neandertals as its deputy) and Homo sapiens sapiens (the Anatomically Modern Homo sapiens as its deputy) (7).

(1)Homo sapiens neanderthalensis

The Neandertals lived in areas ranging from Western Europe through Central Asia from about 200,000 to about 28,000 years ago. The name Neandertal (sometimes spelled Neanderthal) comes from fossils found in 1856 in the Feldhofer Cave of the Neander Valley near Düsseldorf City in Germany (tal—a modern form of thal—means “valley” in German).(166*) These fossils that dated from 50,000(7)years ago (or 42,000 years ago, according to Ralf Schmitz of Tuebingen University) (163*)were considered as the ancestor skeletal remains of modern European. From then on, the Neandertal had once become a synonym of the early Homo sapiens.

In the past, scientists claimed that Neandertals differed greatly from modern humans. However, the basis for this claim came from a faulty reconstruction of a Neandertal skeleton that showed it with bent knees and a slouching gait. This reconstruction gave the common but mistaken impression that Neandertals were dim-witted brutes who lived a crude lifestyle(166*).

On the contrary, Neandertals, like the species that preceded them, walked fully upright without a slouch or bent knees. In addition, their cranial capacity was quite large at about 1,500 cu cm (about 90 cu in), slightly larger on average than that of modern humans. Their bodies were powerful and compact—males averaged 1.7 m (5 ft 5 in) tall and 84 kg (185 lb), and females averaged 1.5 m (5 ft) tall and 80 kg (176 lb).The short, stocky build of Neandertals conserved heat and helped them withstand extremely cold conditions(166*).

It is necessary to point out that the finding site of Neandertals—the Feldhofer Cave of the Neander Valley near Düsseldorf City in western Germany—is just located in the famous Rhine Rift Valley(164*, 165*).


(2)Homo sapiens sapiens

......(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jun-22, 06:49 AM
CHAPTER Ⅲ

EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM

...(Please see #11 and #130)

1. RIFT VALLEYS: ORIGIN PLACES OF HUMANKIND

...(Please see #135, #136 , #145 , #153 , #154 ,#157 and #158)


8. Homo sapiens

(1)Homo sapiens neanderthalensis

...(please see #160)

(2)Homo sapiens sapiens

There has never been any lack of debate in Paleoanthropology.

Those who think modern humans originated only in Africa and then spread around the world support what is known as the out of Africa hypothesis. Those who think modern humans evolved over a large region of Eurasia and Africa support the so-called multiregional hypothesis.

I support the multiregional hypothesis, although based on Rift Evolutionism.

...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jun-27, 12:18 AM
CHAPTER Ⅲ

EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM

...(Please see #11 and #130)

1. RIFT VALLEYS: ORIGIN PLACES OF HUMANKIND

...(Please see #135, #136 , #145 , #153 , #154 ,#157 and #158)

8. Homo sapiens

(1)Homo sapiens neanderthalensis

...(please see #160)

(2)Homo sapiens sapiens

There has never been any lack of debate in Paleoanthropology.

Those who think modern humans originated only in Africa and then spread around the world support what is known as the out of Africa hypothesis. Those who think modern humans evolved over a large region of Eurasia and Africa support the so-called multiregional hypothesis.

I support the multiregional hypothesis, although based on Rift Evolutionism.

· The out of Africa Hypothesis

According to the Out of Africa Hypothesis, also known as the Replacement Hypothesis, early populations of modern humans from Africa migrated to other regions and entirely replaced existing populations of archaic humans. The replaced populations would have included the Neandertals and any surviving groups of Homo erectus(167*).

Supporters of this view consider that many modern human skeletal traits evolved relatively recently—within the past 200,000 years or so—suggesting a single, common origin. In addition, the anatomical similarities shared by all modern human populations far outweigh those shared by pre-modern and modern humans within particular geographic regions. Furthermore, biological research indicates that most new species of organisms, including mammals, arise from small, geographically isolated populations(167*).

· The Multiregional Hypothesis

According to the Multiregional Hypothesis, also known as the Continuity Hypothesis, the evolution of modern humans began when Homo erectus spread throughout much of Eurasia around 1 million years ago(167*).

Supporters of this view consider that regional populations retained some unique anatomical features for hundreds of thousands of years, but they also mated with populations from neighboring regions, exchanging heritable traits with each other. This exchange of heritable traits is known as gene flow. Through gene flow, populations of H. erectus passed on a variety of increasingly modern characteristics, such as increases in brain size, across their geographic range. Gradually this would have resulted in the evolution of more modern looking humans throughout Africa and Eurasia. The physical differences among people today, then, would result from hundreds of thousands of years of regional evolution. This is the concept of continuity. For instance, modern East Asian populations have some skull features that scientists also see in H. erectus fossils from that region(167*).

Some critics of the Multiregional Hypothesis claim that it wrongly advocates a scientific belief in race and could be used to encourage racism. Supporters of the Multiregional Hypothesis point out, however, that their position does not imply that modern races evolved in isolation from each other, or that racial differences justify racism. Instead, the theory holds that gene flow linked different populations together. These links allowed progressively more modern features, no matter where they arose, to spread from region to region and eventually become universal among humans(167*).

COMMENT:
A.

Scientists have weighed the Out of Africa and Multiregional Hypotheses against both genetic and fossil evidence. The results do not unanimously support either one, but weigh more heavily in favor of the out of Africa hypothesis.

MtDNA studies have weaknesses, however, including the following(167*):

· the estimated rate of mtDNA mutation varies from study to study, and some estimates put the date of origin closer to 850,000 years ago, the time of Homo erectus.

· mtDNA makes up a small part of the total genetic material that humans inherit. The rest of our genetic material—about 400,000 times more than the amount of mtDNA—came from many individuals living at the time of the African Eve, conceivably from many different regions.

· the time at which modern mtDNA began to diversify does not necessarily coincide with the origin of modern human biological traits and cultural abilities.

· the smaller amount of modern mtDNA diversity outside of Africa could result from times when European and Asian populations declined in numbers, perhaps due to climate changes.

· mtDNA extracted from a 62,000-year-old Australian H. sapiens fossil was found to differ significantly from modern human mtDNA, suggesting a much wider range of mtDNA variation within H. sapiens than was previously believed. According to the Australian researchers, this finding lends support to the multiregional hypothesis because it shows that different populations of H. sapiens, possibly including Neandertals, could have evolved independently in different parts of the world.



Moreover, the Out of Africa Hypothesis is difficult to explain the diversity of human in morphology and in action during the past 100,000 years(173*).

The contrast between the presence of mid-sagittal keeling, mandibular oxostosis, pinched nasal saddle and agenesis of third molar in recent East Asians, and their absence in recent African skulls fit better with the Multiregional model rather than the Recent out of Africa model. (WU Xin-zhi, 2006)(169*)



The out of Africa Hypothesis claims all human mtDNA originated from a single ancestral lineage—specifically, a single female. The precondition itself, the haplotype family tree of human mitochondrial DNA, just bears a strong subjectivism, I think. Why did all human can but arose from one site? Why can’t arise in different parts of the world independently although some early or some late? Why can’t take “several” family trees as a precondition of this research?

It is necessary to point out that the claim of “the haplotype family tree” is coincident with that of Darwin’s “the haplotype common ancestor ”. However, many scientists have challenged to this view of Darwin.

Based on deeply microcosmic research of many genes, a group of Canadian biologists put forward a new thesis that not all life arose from a haplotype common ancestor, but arose from several organisms in primordial soup. They pointed out that those organisms had ever exchanged their genes before evolved into Eucaryote, bacterium and archaea (a special bacterium) (31).

Now, I appeal to paleoanthropologists of all countries to turn their eyes on other continental rift valleys besides the East African Rift Valleys to find out more fossils of the different age-oldest human species.

...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jun-28, 03:48 PM
COMMENT
B.

One of the conclusions based on the Out of Africa Hypothesis, is that the indigenous people of China was totally replaced by the African immigrants during the Last Ice Age. But, this conclusion is wrong. The reasons are as follows:

· “There is morphological evidence indicating the continuity of human evolution in China. The tradition of Paleolithic in China is quite different from that in Africa and Europe. In China the Mode I technique persisted in Pleistocene with only a few sites exhibiting techniques of other modes, while a succession from Mode I through Mode V was shown in Africa and Europe.” (WU Xin-zhi, 2005)(168*)

· “The palaeo-faunae of Pleistocene China indicate that there was broad area suitable for human inhabitation even in Ice Age. Recent paleoanthropological reports provide evidence of human existence at least at four sites in China between 50 000 years BP and 100 000 years BP.”(WU Xin-zhi, 2005)(168*)

· “Near East is most probably on the passageway from Africa to China. Mode III technique prevalent in Near East around 100ky BP has not replaced the Mode I in China in any time.” (WU Xin-zhi, 2005)(168*)

· “Paleoanthropological study has already made clear that the human evolution is a very complicated process, new molecular studies indicate that molecular evolution is fairly more complex than that understood in 20th century, we should keep a clear head in thinking about the explanation and inference derived from new information on the origin of humans.” (WU Xin-zhi, 2005) (168*)

· “The contrast between the presence of mid-sagittal keeling, mandibular oxostosis, pinched nasal saddle and agenesis of third molar in recent East Asians, and their absence in recent African skulls fit better with the Multiregional model rather than the Recent out of Africa model. The fossil record suggests that mid-sagittal keeling and mandibular oxostosis existing in recent East Asians may derive from homo erectus of Beijing; the pinched nasal saddle may be traced to Maba early H. sapiens skull and Upper Cave Skull 101; and the agenesis of third molar may be related to the homo erectus mandible from Lantian and Upper Pleistocene skull from Liujiang. To consider the origin of these features in recent East Asians as effects of genetic drift during the dispersal out of Africa is less convincible.”(WU Xin-zhi, 2006) (169*)

· “Ten years ago, evidence from genetics gave strong support to the "recent African origin" view of the evolution of modern humans, which posits that Homo sapiens arose as a new species in Africa and subsequently spread, leading to the extinction of other archaic human species. Subsequent data from the nuclear genome not only fail to support this model; they do not support any simple model of human demographic history. In this paper, we study a process in which the modern human phenotype originates in Africa and then advances across the world by local demic diffusion, hybridization, and natural selection. While the multiregional model of human origins posits a number of independent single locus selective sweeps, and the "out of Africa" model posits a sweep of a new species, we study the intermediate case of a phenotypic sweep. Numerical simulations of this process replicate many of the seemingly contradictory features of the genetic data, and suggest that as much as 80% of nuclear loci have assimilated genetic material from non-African archaic humans.” (Eswaran V, Harpending H, Rogers AR., 2005) (170*)

· “major population expansion events resulting in interbreeding, not replacement.” (Templeton AR., 2002) (171*)

· “DNA sequence data from humans can provide insight into the history of modern humans and the genetic variability in human populations. We report here a study of human DNA sequence variation at an X-linked noncoding region of 10,346 BP. The sample consists of 62 X chromosomes from Africa, Europe, and Asia. Forty-four polymorphic sites were found among the 62 sequences, resulting in 23 different haplotypes. Statistical analyses of the data led to the following inferences. (1) There is strong evidence of human population expansion in the relatively recent past, and this population expansion has had a significant effect on the pattern of polymorphism at this locus. (2) Non-African populations were unlikely to have been derived from a very small number of African lineages. (3) There was considerable geographic subdivision in the ancient human population, which could be an important reason why many studies failed to detect population expansion. (4) The long-term effective population size of humans is between 12,000 and 15,000. And (5) a non-African specific variant was found at a frequency of 35% in non-Africans, an estimate supported by the genotyping of additional 80 non-African and 106 African X chromosomes. This variant could have arisen in Eurasia more than 140,000 years ago, predating the emergence of modern humans. Moreover, this haplotype and all other haplotypes coalesced to the most recent common ancestor of the sample, which was estimated to be older than 490,000 years. Therefore, this region may have a long history in Eurasia.” (Yu N; Fu YX; Li WH, 2002) (172*)

· “New studies on X- chromosome, chromosome 22 and chromosome 1 did not support the total replacement of archaic population in Eurasia by the African immigrants.” (WU Xin-zhi,
2005) (168*)

...

...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jun-29, 03:46 PM
COMMENT
C.

In fact, there is no huge contradiction between the Out of Africa Hypothesis and the Multiregional Hypothesis. The former indicates the earliest site where humans arose and the latter reveals the independence that races sprang.

Even if according to the Out of Africa Hypothesis, the hypothesis also considers that early populations of modern humans from Africa migrated to other regions and entirely replaced existing populations of indigenous archaic humans. Please note these words “indigenous archaic humans”! Did “indigenous archaic humans” have ever existed a long time in their regions before “African immigrants” migrated in, thus becoming the Multiregional Hypothesis at least for the indigenous archaic humans here?

Now that indigenous archaic humans did independently spring from several regions, then on this basis, why couldn’t the Homo sapiens also independently arise from each region?

...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jul-01, 03:05 AM
COMMENT:
D.

One of the principles of the Out of Africa Hypothesis is that mtDNA (mitochondrial DNA) inheritance passes only from a mother to her offspring. But, some recent researches show that father mtDNA can enter oocyte to combine with mother mtDNA(32), thus somewhat shaking the foundation of the Out of Africa Hypothesis.

Academicians Wu Xin-zhi (the Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology, Chinese Academy of Sciences) considered that Gene Examination could but offer some indirect evidences and essentially belonged to a presumption for seeking the source of humans(174*). In fact, geneticists just made some references to this research, whereas some media put undue propaganda to Gene Examination for creating resound effect, thus deviating the objective reality.

...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jul-02, 09:30 AM
COMMENT
E.

It’s really surprising that Professors Jin Li, et al of anthropology research center, Fudan University, P. R. of China claimed in 2001 and 2002 that they “found a mutation in the gene M168G on the Y chromosome of nearly 10,000 men living in almost all parts of China. The mutation, a unique genetic marker in partially Africans, can be tracked to Africa not earlier than 79,000 years ago.” “The study in China has confirmed previous research findings that Chinese people probably originate from Africa. Following the research of Y chromosome, it was suspected that the ancestors of human being departed from Africa and migrated to various places of the world in approximately 60 thousand years ago, and a subdivision of the Africans moved from the south eastern Asia to the north and arrived in China, went across the Yangtze river and entered north China and north eastern China, and became the ancestors of the Chinese people of the present era.” (175*,176*). They also said that in China they have not ever found anyone who has no gene M168G(177*).

However, I don’t agree with this conclusion.

Since gene M168G only in partially Africans and almost in all Chinese, then what on earth the M168G is which family’s "the unique genetic marker"?

Scientists probably agree my logic deductions as follows:

· now that gene M168G only in partially Africans, the M168G could not be "the unique genetic marker" of the Africans;

· now that in China they have not ever found anyone who has no gene M168G,the M168G should be and must be "the unique genetic marker" of the Chinese;

· people used to emphasize the eastward migration of the Africans, but neglecting the westward migration of the Asians. What do they only emphasize the eastward migration and not permit the westward one? What do they strangle this two-way interflows of ancient crowd? Who gave they authority to do this? Please note that they said “the ancestors of human being departed from Africa and migrated to various places of the world in approximately 60 thousand years ago”, whereas recent paleoanthropological reports provide evidence of human existence at least at four sites in China between 50 000 years BP and 100 000 years BP(WU Xin-zhi, 2005)(168*). Why were not the partially Africans who had gene M168G the “half-blooded species” from ancient Chinese and African indigenous archaic humans after these ancient Chinese migrating westward?

· so that, the Africans nowadays consists of two parts:

Classic Africans —they have no gene M168G, their ancestors arose from the East African rift Valleys.

Varietal Africans — they all have gene M168G, they are descendants of ancient Chinese crossing with African indigenous archaic humans in Africa during the course of the westward migration.



...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jul-08, 03:42 AM
"This ATM section of BAUT is all about providing those with ATM ideas the opportunity to present them." said Dr.Nereid, our moderator.

Now, I'll elaborate systematically my theory of Rift Evolutionism.

Up to now, I have posted several paragraphs here as following:

The whole content of Rift Evolutionism ---#11

The Table of contents --- #11

PREFACE
TO THE CHINESE TRADITIONAL VERSION --- # 125

INTRODUCTION --- # 126

CHAPTER Ⅰ
LIFE ORIGINS FROM RIFT VALLEYS --- #16

1. RIFT VALLEYS --- #110
2. LIFE AND RIFT VALLEYS --- #24

CHAPTER Ⅱ
MECHANISMS OF RIFT EVOLUTION ---#77

1. SMASHING REACTION --- #101
2. VENT REACTION ---#103
3. NITROGEN FIXATION --- #104
4. MOLYBDENUM ENZYME --- #107
5. GENE EMBEDDING --- #108
6. MOLECULE OXYGEN --- #111
7. VOLCANO PUMP --- #113
8. POWERFUL MAGNETIC FIELD --- #114
...

CHAPTER Ⅲ
EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM

1. RIFT VALLEYS: ORIGIN PLACES OF HUMANKIND
---#130

(1) Amphipithecus and Pondaungia ---#135
(2) Aegyptopithecus ---#136
(3) Dryopithecus ---#145
(4) Sivapithecus ---#153
(5) Australopithecus ---#154
(6) Homo habilis ---#157
(7) Homo erectus ---#158
(8) Homo sapiens ---#160,#162,#163,#164,#165
and #166

2. RIFT VALLEYS OF AMERICA: ORIGIN PLACE OF THE AMERICAN INDIAN

...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jul-08, 03:06 PM
CHAPTER Ⅲ
EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM

...

2. RIFT VALLEYS OF AMERICA: ORIGIN PLACE OF THE AMERICAN INDIAN

The American Indian is an autochthon of America and a sum name of all nations in South and North America before European colonists intruded into America in the end of the fifteen-century. There have been controversies over differing opinions in the source of the American Indian.

In despite of this, Archaeologists and Anthropologists usually consider that the remote ancestors of the American Indian entered America from Asia through the Bering Straits 15,000~20,000 years ago(44), no matter how by “boat” across the Bering Sea or by foot through a land bridge which once linked up Asia and North America(7、38).

The bases of this classical theory above, summing up by me, would have allegedly 8 items more or less as follows:

· The characteristics in Anthropology seem to be looked alike each other between the American Indian and the Asian, especially Mongolian Spots(37)and Shovel Incisors(45、46).

· In Siberia, North China and North America, the late cultural things left behind by the deceased especially “sphenoid stone-cores” during the Old Stone Age are similar(47); The primitive societies in those places all took tiger as their totem.

· The “Diego” sub-blood group found in some Indian tribes among Venezuelan bushes has been later widely also discovered in Northeast Asia(48、49).

· The JC Virus in the bodies of American Indian coincides with that of the Japanese(179*).

· The bacterium in the bodies of American Indian might be traced back to Siberia(50).

· America can not be a place of humans originating, because of the evidences as following: There exists only the lowest monkeys in America(51); The “absolute proofs” that the earliest activity of the mankind in America was only 12,000 years ago(7).

· A study on mtDNA has showed that almost the whole American Indian would be the descendants of 4 women who came from Asia into America about 20,000 years ago(180*).

· It was possible for the Asian to move eastwards because there had once been “the Bering Land Bridge” between Asia and North America(7、37).



However, the classical theory above would be wrong, I think. Here, I’ll criticize it item by item and independently propose my hypothesis that American Indian should be sprung from American Rift Valleys.

...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jul-09, 04:13 PM
I hope scientists all of the world to join this discussion of Space Exploration and Rift Evolutionism

If Rift Evolutionism will be testified by facts on our Earth, we could use it to seek for Mars life and so on, I think.

If continental rift valleys on Earth were indeed the sources of Humans even the life, we should suggest the landing site of Phoenix onto Valles Marineris to unearth possible Martian fossils, which may locate on terraces within this valley…

So, I hope scientists all of the world to join this discussion, with rigorous scientific approach. To create a correct theory, after all, is our common cause.

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jul-10, 04:38 PM
... (please see #167)

CHAPTER Ⅲ
EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM

...

2. RIFT VALLEYS OF AMERICA: ORIGIN PLACE OF THE AMERICAN INDIAN

... (#168)

(1) About anthropology characteristics

Many scholars have put the American Indian under Mongolian Race(52、53) according to cinnamon skin, black hair with straight and sturdy(37), especially shovel incisors with higher frequency(45、46)and Mongolian Spots with blue and green outside their baby’s sacrum(37).

In fact, even though the scholars who hold this classical opinion such as Academician Wu Rukang at Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology, Chinese Academy of Sciences also have observed “an extreme difference” between the American Indian and the Asian: “The Mongoloid fold in the upper eyelid as one of the characteristics of the yellow race…is hardly found in the American Indian” (53). An anthropologist of Mainz University also felt puzzled for it that why an evolution of only 20,000 years can produce so outstanding genetic variation if the hypothesis of the Asian to move eastward could be established(54)?

It should be indiscreet if only the Anthropometrics could judge the races. The morphology does not reflect the adoption precisely(55). Some had said that the American Indian might just like European in the light of having no Mongoloid fold, having raised middle-high bridge of the nose, as well as having undulant hair and well-developed whisker in some Indian tribes(52).

As to Mongolian Spots and shovel incisors, they appear in all races, only having higher or lower rates of appearance(46). These two bodily characters can’t be considered as decisive foundations for judging humans races, just like we can’t look upon Bushman in Africa as one of the Mongolian Races because they also have Mongoloid folds(46), and just like we can’t regard some Negro tribes as from Russia because their faces much like Caucasian’s(56). In faces, the European is similar to the Jew. However, the former would belong in Aryan extraction and the latter Semite extraction(56).

The reality which the American Indian bears a striking resemblance to the Yellow Race of Asia, I think(57、58), might be explained in biology, i.e., the so called “ astringency evolution” — although several animals had been completely different each other thousands of years ago, they could converge upon similar species(59). In other words, the analogy is not the relationship(60). It’s necessary to avoid taking analogous structures as homology(55). In fact, many different animals own similar organs (Fig. 3-3) (61).

...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jul-11, 02:17 PM
... (please see #167)

CHAPTER Ⅲ
EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM

...

2. RIFT VALLEYS OF AMERICA: ORIGIN PLACE OF THE AMERICAN INDIAN

... (#168, #170)

(2) About ancient cultural hangovers

In 1930’s, west archaeologists put a possibility that there perhaps existed cultural connections between Asia and America in prehistoric age. After this, many microlithic remains found within wide regions in East Asia and Northwest America. On these grounds, some scientists considered that there existed a so-called “U-shaped Cultural Band in North Pacific Region” (65). Thus, they reached a conclusion that Siberia or Mongolian Desert was the native place of the American Indian(47).

Even more, some one affirmed that the America Indian should be from North China according to the same type and the same process method of over 200 sphenoid stone cores unearthed from Hu-Tou-Liang village, Sang-Gan river valley district of North China during 1972-1974(47).

They might have mixed up, I think, the following two different concepts: the origin place of the cultural remains and the distribution areas of the cultural remains(47).

Maya’s 13 ahau katuns showed ecliptic was divided into 13 parts; this would be much similar to the ecliptic pattern with 13 heads found in Mali(68). Moreover, the ceremonies and the witchcrafts of the Indians in Middle America praying for rain correspond with that of the people in West Africa(68). How can we say the American Indian was sprung from West Africa?

The calendar of Mexico is similar to that of Hinduism; and there is rather analogy in poses of God and Juggernaut between Mexico and Hinduism(68). How can we say the Mexico Indian sprang from India or the India’s Indian originated from Mexico?

As for totem, some one made tiger totem as one of the bases of the hypothesis that the American Indian would be originated from Asia. This point of view, I consider, would only be an illusion. As a good example, although the “Trikit Indian tribe” in North America used to worship totems, there were crow, wolf, whale, vulture, bear, dolphin, shark, frog, goose, sea lion, owlet, salmon and so on in the marks of their totems, but tiger. Even though they owned tiger totem, I consider, the tiger totem could be only one of their totems at most. So was the Yellow of Asia. In the ancient China, the classical totems were as follows: dragon, snake, bird and tiger(70). The tiger totem only was one of their totems. Therefore, the theory of tiger totem must be too farfetched.

...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jul-12, 04:30 PM
... (please see #167)

CHAPTER Ⅲ
EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM

...

2. RIFT VALLEYS OF AMERICA: ORIGIN PLACE OF THE AMERICAN INDIAN

... (#168, #170 and #171)


(3) About Diego sub-blood type

The “Diego” sub-blood group found in Indian tribes among a Venezuelan jungle in 1955 also later discovered widely within Northeast Asia. Accordingly, some scientists considered that they had found out a testimony in hematology that the American Indian should be the descendant of the immigrants from East Asia(48, 71).

In fact, in race specificity blood types except “Diego”, there are very remarkable and essential differences between the American Indian and the Asian(71):

· In 1918, Mr. & Mrs. Hirszfeld noticed that there were some blood type differences among races. For instance, as for gene B of blood type, it is extinct in the America Indian whereas universal in the Asian(55、73). Thus, in the sense of gene B, only the Eskimo but the American Indian would be the mover eastward from Asia during the near historical period. Because the Eskimo just own gene B besides looks alike to the Asian(40).

· HLA antigen is a kind of antigens in lymphoid cell membrane. Over 120 diatheses in HLA antigen have been checked up. There exist many differences in these diatheses between the American Indian and the Yellow Asian (see Table 3-1~3-2) (71).

· Bw54 is used to be called “the Yellow's Antigen”. But, Bw54 of the American Indians is just equal to zero. By contrast, Bw54 of the Chinese is 4.71 and that of the Japanese 7.3(71).

· Jk gene frequency in the Brazilian Indian is equal to 0.2453 whereas that all the Asian are zero (see Table 3-3) (71).

· Frequency of the Lewis blood type among the Asian races is very high, for example: Le (a+) in nationalities of the Asian are from 20.81% to 28.48%(71), whereas very rare in the American Indian(74).



Just because of these differences above, the anthropologist S. M. Garn affirmed that it was just the American Indians that appears as a fully isolated state in genetics(75)!

...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jul-15, 02:47 AM
... (please see #167)

CHAPTER Ⅲ
EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM

...

2. RIFT VALLEYS OF AMERICA: ORIGIN PLACE OF THE AMERICAN INDIAN

... (#168, #170 , #171 and #172)

(4) About J C virus

It was reported that the JC Virus in the bodies of American Indian coincides with that of the Japanese. Accordingly, some scientists considered that the American Indian should be originated from Asia(179*).

We do feel puzzled why didn’t you reach such a direct conclusion that the American Indian sprang from Japan?


...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Jul-18, 02:15 AM
... (please see #167)

CHAPTER Ⅲ
EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM

...

2. RIFT VALLEYS OF AMERICA: ORIGIN PLACE OF THE AMERICAN INDIAN

... (#168, #170 , #171 , #172and #173)


(5) About bacterium

Dr. Mack Achteman of Germanic Marks Plank Infection Biology Research Institute et al found in 2003(76) that human’s enteron had been infected by 7 different pyloric Spiro-bacteria. The bacterium had infected half our humans, mostly through our home members. They considered that the activities of our ancestors was hardly revealed because of humans’ very complex genes; however, the activity track of our ancestors since 10,000 years could be gotten through studying the genes of humans’ parasites, for instance, The bacterium in the bodies of American Indian might be traced back to Siberia(50).

For this view, I’ll only raise two points: the first, Dr. Brian Sprat of London Empire Institute has challenged it. He doubts whether a jumble of crowd can provide correct messages for migration of humans. He considers that this view might be the most dependable only to an isolated crowd such as Polynesian(76). The second, the time limit this view showed is “since 10,000 years”, which has been incompatible with “before 20,000 years” stipulated by the classical theory of the Asian spanned the Bering Bridge to North America, thus not suiting to explain the source of the American Indian.

...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

sun45114
2006-Aug-15, 04:18 PM
... (please see #167)

CHAPTER Ⅲ
EXAMPLE VERIFY TO RIFT EVOLUTIONISM

...

2. RIFT VALLEYS OF AMERICA: ORIGIN PLACE OF THE AMERICAN INDIAN

... (#168, #170 , #171 , #172, #173 and #174)


(6) About human sprang up in America

In Paleocene Epoch and Eocene Epoch 70 Ma~40 Ma, inchoate primates were widely dispersed over the world. Their fossils are very rich except South America, Australia and Antarctica. The oldest fossil of primate in America is Purgatorius unearthed in east Montana of USA in 1965(7、77).

However, there hasn’t been any report about fossils of anthropoid found in America so far. Hence, some scholars declared that America can’t be a source place of humans, because there exists only the lowest monkeys in America(51).

Such conclusion is open to question, I think. The reasons are as follows:

· Now that the Western Rift Valley of north America (also called “the Basin and Range Province” in geology) and the Western Rift valley of South America (also called “the Retro-arc Basin” in geology), which were formed about 2, 000 Ma(78), were pregnant firstly in the world with bird(79), mammalian(80), dinosaurian(81) and primate(82)etc (please see Chapter Ⅰ in detail), why can’t they also breed out independently anthropoid and the ancients?

· Although fossils of anthropoid haven’t yet been unearthed in the America, we can’t jump rashly to a conclusion that America have no any this kind of fossils. This might only be a question to take time or a question whether we have centered our attention on the Rift Valleys of America. In 1927, paleoanthropologists Prof. Yang Zhongjian et al predicted that the Asia might be one of the origin places of mankind although at that time there hadn’t been found any fossils of anthropoid in Asia. And in fact, the fossils of Homo erectus later unearthed in Yuanmou County, Yunnan Province, PRC district of the Panxi Continental Rift have testified this remarkable foresight.

· The conclusion mentioned above might be arrived too hastily. Similar situations have been occurred: some scholars(83)had affirmed that the time aborigines appeared in Australia would be 4,000~5,000 years ago; but only one year later, their conclusion was overthrown by a new discovery that the earliest time the humans appeared in Australia should be at least 50,000 years ago(7)!

People has generally considered that there didn’t exist any humans until 10,000~20,000 years ago. The reasons are as follows:

· The carbon-14 dating to some stone-lances and stone-arrowheads unearthed from New Mexico in 1920’s(87);

· The human skeletons lasted over 10,000 years are only a dozen or less(88).

However, the view mentioned above is vacillated even overthrown by a series of new findings recently:

· 26 stone-implements unearthed from Puerto Montt of the Central Chile have lasted 33,400 years(89)and the stone-implements unearthed from Peru have lasted over 40,000 years(68)according to the carbon-14 dating, which are just located in the Western Rift valley of South America.

· Nucleus gene data have testified that the humans did settle down in America Continents at least about 30,000 years ago(90).

· Linguist Joanna Nichols of California University found that there were 150 language branches within Southern and Northern America and hereby declared that the humans existed in America 40,000 years ago, according to much lengthy years needed for forming a new language branch(91).

· In September 2003, Prof. Silvia Gonzales et al of UK found some footprints of humans near Puebla of Mexico; these footprints lasted 40,000 years(9*).

· The unearthed cultural relics from near Yukon Territory of Canada and near Mojave Desert of USA were showed to have lasted 100,000 ~200,000 years, based on rigorous determinations(87).



These new findings above testify that the classical theory which the remote ancestors of the American Indian entered America from Asia 15,000~20,000 years ago(44)is wrong.

...(to be continued, just some days please, because of translation from Chinese into English and other research work.)

Tianxi Sun (孙天锡)
Professorial Senior Engineer
P.R. of China
sun45114@yahoo.com.cn

Nereid
2006-Aug-16, 12:49 AM
sun45114, please check your mailbox - I have sent you a number of highly relevant Private Messages, and have not received any replies from you.

Thread closed (for now).